Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #171496 > unrolled thread

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck No Spam <mailinglists@high5.alioth.uberspace.de> - 2016-08-29 00:10 +0200
    Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-08-29 03:20 +0200
    Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck "Neal P. Murphy" <neal.p.murphy@alum.wpi.edu> - 2016-08-29 03:30 +0200
      Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-08-29 08:20 +0200
        Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Johann Spies <johann.spies@gmail.com> - 2016-08-29 08:40 +0200
          Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-08-29 16:30 +0200
          Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2016-09-02 11:30 +0200
        Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-08-29 09:00 +0200
          Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-29 09:10 +0200
        Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-29 09:00 +0200
    Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-08-29 10:50 +0200
    Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck brian <brian@meadows.pair.com> - 2016-08-29 11:00 +0200
      Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2016-08-29 11:20 +0200
        Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck brian <brian@meadows.pair.com> - 2016-08-29 12:20 +0200
          Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2016-08-29 13:10 +0200
            Pulling mail for local access (was Re: [Rant] The Endless Search  for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2016-08-29 13:40 +0200
              Re: Pulling mail for local access (was Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-29 15:10 +0200
          Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-08-29 14:50 +0200
          Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-08-29 15:30 +0200
            Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-08-29 16:10 +0200
      Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-08-29 14:30 +0200
    Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck rhkramer@gmail.com - 2016-08-29 13:30 +0200
      Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-08-29 14:50 +0200
    Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2016-08-29 17:10 +0200

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#171496 — Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

So it is 12 years later;

has someone found something working?

greets

J

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#171497

No Spam <mailinglists@high5.alioth.uberspace.de> writes:

> So it is 12 years later;

To what event are you referring? Your message's header has no standard
“In-Reply-To” field, so it apparently is not composed as a reply.

> has someone found something working?

I hope you can find an email client that correctly preserves the thread
of discussion :-)

-- 
 \               “… correct code is great, code that crashes could use |
  `\           improvement, but incorrect code that doesn’t crash is a |
_o__)                    horrible nightmare.” —Chris Smith, 2008-08-22 |
Ben Finney

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171499

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200
No Spam <mailinglists@high5.alioth.uberspace.de> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> So it is 12 years later;
> 
> has someone found something working?
> 
> greets
> 
> J

More years ago, BeOS' email client was perfect for me. It use separate files and made very liberal use of BFS' equivalent of attributes to sort and organize messages. But BeOS development stopped. I briefly (*very* briefly) went back to Windows. Then discovered that Linux was ready for *my* desktop. SuSE worked for a while. Then I think it was etch that pulled me over to Debian. And there I found kmail which worked fine for me for a good number of years. It did everything I wanted and rarely displayed problems.

About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter) began slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE which is about as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was. Then I started searching and trying various email clients. I didn't like anything. Then I found claws-mail. It isn't perfect; it has a quirk or three. But, by and large, it's as usable and stable as kmail was lo those many years ago.

But when Haiku (open source remake of BeOS) is ready for prime time, I will probably switch back to it. Especially since I can run most any OS I need in a KVM, and my 500-line KVM bash script lets me configure and fire up a VM in about two minutes.

So yes, I found something: claws-mail.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171503

Neal P. Murphy wrote:

> About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter) began
> slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE which is about
> as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.

KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even better as
bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the Trinity Desktop Env
(TDE).

regards

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171504

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

I use mutt. From time to time I have experimented with things like kmail,
pine, evolution,
thunderbird (icedove), claws, gnus and maybe some others and every time I
came back to mutt.

Regards
Johann


-- 
Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171525

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 08:35:12AM +0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> I use mutt. From time to time I have experimented with things like kmail,
> pine, evolution,
> thunderbird (icedove), claws, gnus and maybe some others and every time I
> came back to mutt.
> 

+1 for mutt 

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171698

Johann Spies wrote:
> I use mutt. From time to time I have experimented with things like kmail,
> pine, evolution,
> thunderbird (icedove), claws, gnus and maybe some others and every time I
> came back to mutt.
> 
> Regards
> Johann

I also like mutt. The base mutt has become much more
valuable since I added an indexing utility, mu. I can
actually search through all my old mail now!

-- 
Joel Roth
  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171505

Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 29 August 2016 02:16:09 deloptes wrote:
> 
>> Neal P. Murphy wrote:
>> > About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter)
>> > began slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE
>> > which is about as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.
>>
>> KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even
>> better as bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the Trinity
>> Desktop Env (TDE).
>>
>> regards
> 
> And TDE is very highly recommended by Grandpa Gene.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

We should have added a link to the web site.

https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

regards

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171507

On Monday 29 August 2016 02:55:14 deloptes wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 29 August 2016 02:16:09 deloptes wrote:
> >> Neal P. Murphy wrote:
> >> > About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that
> >> > matter) began slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally
> >> > found XFCE which is about as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.
> >>
> >> KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even
> >> better as bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the
> >> Trinity Desktop Env (TDE).
> >>
> >> regards
> >
> > And TDE is very highly recommended by Grandpa Gene.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> We should have added a link to the web site.
>
> https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
>
> regards

True, but there is always google. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171506

On Monday 29 August 2016 02:16:09 deloptes wrote:

> Neal P. Murphy wrote:
> > About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter)
> > began slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE
> > which is about as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.
>
> KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even
> better as bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the Trinity
> Desktop Env (TDE).
>
> regards

And TDE is very highly recommended by Grandpa Gene.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171508

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200
No Spam <mailinglists@high5.alioth.uberspace.de> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> So it is 12 years later;
> 
> has someone found something working?
> 

Gmail on a web browser not good enough for you?

OK, I'll vote for claws-mail as well, with the same reservation. It has
bugs. But not serious ones, and curiously the Windows port has one less
bug than the Debian package (moving to another email with 'next'
doesn't mark it as read).

In my case, I use an IMAP server, and when away from home, openvpn. For
some reason I haven't understood, the combination of claws on Windows
and openvpn doesn't allow attachments to be sent, so I drop back to
Thunderbird to do that. If I'm only using TCP and don't need local DNS,
I use ssh rather than openvpn, and claws is OK with that.

Mutt on non-GUI machines.

-- 
Joe

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171509

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>So it is 12 years later;
>
>has someone found something working?
>

This will be a recommendation which most likely nobody else will
support, but here we go...

I like having newsgroups and mail in a single program. While there's
nothing outstanding about its e-mail side, it's certainly usable, but
Forte Agent (which runs just fine on Debian via WINE) is head and
shoulders the best news client I have ever found. 

When I switched to Linux on retirement (having previously been paid to
use Windows) I did the rounds of the various mail clients. Kmail,
Claws, Thunderbird, you name it. I detest webmail, largely because,
living where I do, I have no option but satellite internet access, and
that really sucks. 

Whatever I've tried, I've always come back to Forte Agent. Yes, it's
Windows program. Yes, it's closed source, and they WON'T release the
database format. Yes, it costs money ($29 for a new registration). 

Despite all those negatives, I still regard it as the best $29 I ever
spent, and I've been using the program for almost 20 years now. 

>http://www.forteinc.com/main/homepage.php

Usual disclaimer applies, no vested interest, just a very happy
customer. 

Brian. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171510

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 04:59:04AM -0400, brian wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200, you wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >So it is 12 years later;
> >
> >has someone found something working?
> >
> 
> This will be a recommendation which most likely nobody else will
> support, but here we go...
> 
> I like having newsgroups and mail in a single program [...]

Gnu Emacs/Gnus. Runs natively on Windows if need be (and of
course on whatever *Linux flavours and BSDs out there).

Configurable and tweakable if there was ever one.

- -- t
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlfD/FcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYRWwCbBGmcXpHz7X6IKTriSnnFskYp
Ib8An0HJbQ+YTU+47nUz5HhL8tazmKD6
=MYHq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171511

On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 11:11:51 +0200, you wrote:

>
>On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 04:59:04AM -0400, brian wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200, you wrote:
>> 
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >So it is 12 years later;
>> >
>> >has someone found something working?
>> >
>> 
>> This will be a recommendation which most likely nobody else will
>> support, but here we go...
>> 
>> I like having newsgroups and mail in a single program [...]
>
>Gnu Emacs/Gnus. Runs natively on Windows if need be (and of
>course on whatever *Linux flavours and BSDs out there).
>
>Configurable and tweakable if there was ever one.
>

But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more than
one source? That's Agent's big selling point. I tried using
Thunderbird for news, and the problem was that it did each server
sequentially. When you're on a metered internet connection, with only
a five-hour unmetered window in each 24, then making maximum use of
the unmetered window is important. 

Brian. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171513

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 06:15:23AM -0400, brian wrote:

[Gnus]

> But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more than
> one source? [...]

TBH I never tried that, because I separate mail handling from my
MUA. Fetching, sorting and classifying is left to fetchmail, exim
and procmail, the "MUA" sees the result locally.

Much better system behaviour when working offline.

Didn't yet integrate news into that, since the newsgroups I am
interested in are disjoint from my mailboxes.

Regards
- -- t
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlfEFcAACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZBbgCeOMZwWNiyxH2BCHD9eCCiiLlU
tgcAn3Nz7GL4bKigBdbtlZ7FFPRWJFSS
=5+7/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171515 — Pulling mail for local access (was Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2016-08-29 at 07:00, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 06:15:23AM -0400, brian wrote:
> 
> [Gnus]
> 
>> But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and 
>> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more
>> than one source? [...]
> 
> TBH I never tried that, because I separate mail handling from my MUA.
> Fetching, sorting and classifying is left to fetchmail, exim and
> procmail, the "MUA" sees the result locally.
> 
> Much better system behaviour when working offline.
> 
> Didn't yet integrate news into that, since the newsgroups I am 
> interested in are disjoint from my mailboxes.

I've been interested in trying to set up a system like that for some
years, but never had occasion to make a Project out of it, and never
found an obvious place to get started - especially for when migrating
away from a workflow which is already based on having the mail client
configured to contact the remote server directly. (And even more
especially when dealing with an IMAP account, and wanting to be able to
seamlessly affect mail on the IMAP server from the UI, which is provided
by the mail client.)

Could you go into more detail on how you have / got this set up, and/or
point to resources which explain the process (well enough for someone
technically savvy to be able to pick it up)?

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171520 — Re: Pulling mail for local access (was Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck)

On Monday 29 August 2016 07:29:16 The Wanderer wrote:

> On 2016-08-29 at 07:00, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 06:15:23AM -0400, brian wrote:
> >
> > [Gnus]
> >
> >> But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
> >> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more
> >> than one source? [...]
> >
> > TBH I never tried that, because I separate mail handling from my
> > MUA. Fetching, sorting and classifying is left to fetchmail, exim
> > and procmail, the "MUA" sees the result locally.
> >
> > Much better system behaviour when working offline.
> >
> > Didn't yet integrate news into that, since the newsgroups I am
> > interested in are disjoint from my mailboxes.
>
> I've been interested in trying to set up a system like that for some
> years, but never had occasion to make a Project out of it, and never
> found an obvious place to get started - especially for when migrating
> away from a workflow which is already based on having the mail client
> configured to contact the remote server directly. (And even more
> especially when dealing with an IMAP account, and wanting to be able
> to seamlessly affect mail on the IMAP server from the UI, which is
> provided by the mail client.)
>
> Could you go into more detail on how you have / got this set up,
> and/or point to resources which explain the process (well enough for
> someone technically savvy to be able to pick it up)?

Its not THAT hard, I've been doing it for quite a few years. I suck using 
fetchmail as a background daemon, waking up every there minutes to go 
tap the pop3 port of my ISP's mail server and pull anything new. When a 
message has been pulled, its handed off to procmail for having it run 
thru clamscan, spamassassin etc, and what survives that gets dumped into 
a mailfile in /var/spool/mail.  Then a bash script I wrote has a 
subdaemon called inotifywait, trained to watch for file closings, and 
when that mailfile has been written to and closed by the writer, it 
sends kmail a message over dbus (or dcop, depending on the system) 
telling kmail to go get the mail from that local mailbox nd sort it thru 
kmails filters and stashed in the appropriate folder. 

The net result is that the pause in everything else that kmail does, is 
only a fraction of a second, most of which is used by its making a noise 
to tell me new mail has arrived.  If kmail was doing its own fetching, 
then the keyboard is dead (the keystrokes entered are saved and 
displayed when it comes back to you, but that dead time could be a 
minute of more when someone sends you a big picture, or an openoffice 
presentation with lengthy video snippets)

With that much background automation, all I have to do is hit the plus 
key to read the next unread email, reply to it if I can, hit ctrl+return 
to send it, and + to read the next one.  Thats it, everything else is 
done for me.  Fetchmail can tap as many pop3 servers as you have access 
rights to, and I have had 3 at one time, but am down to my ISP's server 
now. It does it serially of course.

Late at night, I stop fetchmail long enough to run sa-learn against 
several folders to train spamassassin, that takes 10+ minutes, and 
fetchmail is restarted when thats been done.  Basically I am lazy, and 
bash scripts handle a lot of stuff in the background here. Repetitive 
stuff is soon turned into a script in my crontab.

Biggest PITA? The pop3 server is also an imap server, and because some 
people mix-n-match, the ISP has disabled fetchmails ability to delete a 
mail it has fetched.  So I have to log into the ^%# webmail with a 
browser and clean house, usually daily.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171519

Brian writes:
> But will [Gnus] download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more than
> one source?

I use Leafnode to transfer news to my machine and then read it locally
with Gnus.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171521

> sequentially.  When you're on a metered internet connection, with only
> a five-hour unmetered window in each 24, then making maximum use of
> the unmetered window is important.

In such a situation I think you'd want to use something like leafnode
and offlineimap.


        Stefan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#171523

Stefan writes:
> ...offlineimap...

That looks like it could be useful.  Thank you.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web