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WiFi after initial install

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  WiFi after initial install Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 16:40 +0100
    Re: WiFi after initial install Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-12-05 18:30 +0100
      Re: WiFi after initial install Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-12-05 18:50 +0100
    Re: WiFi after initial install Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2016-12-05 21:10 +0100
      Re: WiFi after initial install Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2016-12-05 21:40 +0100
        Re: WiFi after initial install Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 00:10 +0100
          Re: WiFi after initial install Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-12-06 20:30 +0100
            Re: WiFi after initial install Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2016-12-06 21:10 +0100
              Re: WiFi after initial install Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 23:30 +0100
                Re: WiFi after initial install Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-12-07 15:10 +0100
      Re: WiFi after initial install Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-12-06 02:40 +0100
    Re: WiFi after initial install Michael Biebl <email@michaelbiebl.de> - 2016-12-05 22:40 +0100

#175417 — WiFi after initial install

Hello the list!

I have a Mini-ITX PC, a few months old, running KDE on Stretch. 

When I installed it, I used a Stretch netinst image burned to a USB 
stick and had the wired ethernet plugged in, for speed during the 
installation. (and also because I didn't know what fun and games I'd end 
up having with firmware if I tried to install with WiFi).

After the duly-installed machine was located in its final home, well out 
of reach of ethernet cables, I set up the WiFi using native KDE network 
tool thingy (bottom right corner of the screen).

This works but has the, to me significant, disadvantage that if a user 
has not logged into the machine, it is not connected to the network. So 
I can't fire up the machine and then log into it remotely from my other 
computers to do remote maintenance etc.

It also seems to lose the network when the machine locks, but I am not 
sure about this, as the machine is right on the edge of the WiFi 
router's range, so it could be just getting lost when it goes quiet. I 
have purchased a WiFi extension and will be setting it up once I have 
networking more comfortably installed on this box.

So, what I'd like to do, is set up WiFi networking on this box the 
"right", up to date, "Debian" way, so it becomes available on boot and 
doesn't require someone to have logged into KDE before the machine can 
be accessed remotely.

I'm somewhat aware of systemd-networkd, and I know that it is super-easy 
to set up a DHCP-based wired ethernet connection that way, and I also 
know it is possible to do so with a WiFi connection too -- but I 
strongly suspect that is not the "Debian way".

The WiFi connection is secured with a password, and my access point is 
also a DHCP server. I'm expecting to use DHCP to get an IP address as I 
do with all other machines on my network.

All my past Debian experience of setting up WiFi is pre-systemd / 
pre-stretch, and a long time in my past so I have forgotten more than I 
ever knew :) Outside Debian, I've done it on LFS using systemd-networkd 
-- I know that can be made to work but it doesn't seem very Debianesque 
to me.

Any suggestions on what I should do to set this up?

TIA

Mark

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#175419

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 12:31:41AM +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> Hello the list!
> 
> 
> I'm somewhat aware of systemd-networkd, and I know that it is super-easy 
> to set up a DHCP-based wired ethernet connection that way, and I also 
> know it is possible to do so with a WiFi connection too -- but I 
> strongly suspect that is not the "Debian way".
> 
It is "one way" to set up your network.
I would argue based on your description is one of the better ways to do it.

Though we have some members of the purity police around here, there is no
high priest who defines the "right" way.



> The WiFi connection is secured with a password, and my access point is 
> also a DHCP server. I'm expecting to use DHCP to get an IP address as I 
> do with all other machines on my network.
> 
> All my past Debian experience of setting up WiFi is pre-systemd / 
> pre-stretch, and a long time in my past so I have forgotten more than I 
> ever knew :) Outside Debian, I've done it on LFS using systemd-networkd 
> -- I know that can be made to work but it doesn't seem very Debianesque 
> to me.
> 
> Any suggestions on what I should do to set this up?

Go Systemd-networkd, it works great!

-H



-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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#175420

On Mon 05 Dec 2016 at 12:29:17 -0500, Henning Follmann wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 12:31:41AM +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > Hello the list!
> > 
> > 
> > I'm somewhat aware of systemd-networkd, and I know that it is super-easy 
> > to set up a DHCP-based wired ethernet connection that way, and I also 
> > know it is possible to do so with a WiFi connection too -- but I 
> > strongly suspect that is not the "Debian way".
> > 
> It is "one way" to set up your network.
> I would argue based on your description is one of the better ways to do it.
> 
> Though we have some members of the purity police around here, there is no
> high priest who defines the "right" way.

Hello, hello, hello. Evening all. What is it we have here? Somebody not
using network-manager? A word in your King Lear, sonny boy....

> > The WiFi connection is secured with a password, and my access point is 
> > also a DHCP server. I'm expecting to use DHCP to get an IP address as I 
> > do with all other machines on my network.
> > 
> > All my past Debian experience of setting up WiFi is pre-systemd / 
> > pre-stretch, and a long time in my past so I have forgotten more than I 
> > ever knew :) Outside Debian, I've done it on LFS using systemd-networkd 
> > -- I know that can be made to work but it doesn't seem very Debianesque 
> > to me.
> > 
> > Any suggestions on what I should do to set this up?
> 
> Go Systemd-networkd, it works great!

So does connman; systemd-networkd borrowed a few ideas from it. But what
about our old favorite - ifupdown?

-- 
Brian.

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#175432

On 12/5/2016 7:31 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

>
> All my past Debian experience of setting up WiFi is pre-systemd /
> pre-stretch, and a long time in my past so I have forgotten more than I
> ever knew :) Outside Debian, I've done it on LFS using systemd-networkd
> -- I know that can be made to work but it doesn't seem very Debianesque
> to me.
>
> Any suggestions on what I should do to set this up?
>
> TIA
>
> Mark
>

If your past experience is doing the setup in '/etc/network/interfaces'

That has not changed. At least the way I do it has not changed.

I'm running Debian unstable, with resolvconf installed so I can put the 
DNS name servers in the iterfaces file. I use static IP addresses so my 
wireless config looks something like....

iface wlan0 inet static
      address X.X.X.X
      netmask X.X.X.X
      gateway X.X.X.X
      dns-nameservers X.X.X.X X.X.X.X
      wpa-ssid your_ssid
      wpa-psk Your_Wireless_Key

The only changes to my wireless configuration over the years have been 
due to interface name changes and at some point (probably when I 
switched from WEP to WPA) the wireless part went from

wireless-ssid
wireless-psk

to

wpa-ssid
wpa-psk

so for dhcp should be something like.

iface wlan0 inet dhcp
      wpa-ssid your_ssid
      wpa-psk Your_Wireless_Key

If you have a need or just personal desire for your wirless key to be 
stored in an encrypted format then you have to do some different 
configuration for the WPA stuff, which I have not dug into since the 
above solution works for my needs.

Later, Seeker

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#175437

On 12/5/2016 12:00 PM, Seeker wrote:
> On 12/5/2016 7:31 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
>

>>
>> All my past Debian experience of setting up WiFi is pre-systemd /
>> pre-stretch, and a long time in my past so I have forgotten more
>> than I ever knew :) Outside Debian, I've done it on LFS using
>> systemd-networkd -- I know that can be made to work but it doesn't
>> seem very Debianesque to me.
>>
>> Any suggestions on what I should do to set this up?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
> If your past experience is doing the setup in
> '/etc/network/interfaces'
>
> That has not changed. At least the way I do it has not changed.
>
> I'm running Debian unstable, with resolvconf installed so I can put
> the DNS name servers in the iterfaces file. I use static IP addresses
> so my wireless config looks something like....
>
> iface wlan0 inet static address X.X.X.X netmask X.X.X.X gateway
> X.X.X.X dns-nameservers X.X.X.X X.X.X.X wpa-ssid your_ssid wpa-psk
> Your_Wireless_Key
>
> The only changes to my wireless configuration over the years have
> been due to interface name changes and at some point (probably when
> I switched from WEP to WPA) the wireless part went from
>
> wireless-ssid wireless-psk
>
> to
>
> wpa-ssid wpa-psk
>
> so for dhcp should be something like.
>
> iface wlan0 inet dhcp wpa-ssid your_ssid wpa-psk Your_Wireless_Key
>
Forgot to include that you also need a line that tells debian you want
the interface brought up during boot.

auto wlan0

in my case wlan0, but needs to match whatever name Debian gives your
network interface.

> If you have a need or just personal desire for your wirless key to
> be stored in an encrypted format then you have to do some different
> configuration for the WPA stuff, which I have not dug into since the
> above solution works for my needs.
>
> Later, Seeker
>

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#175440

On Mon, Dec 05, 2016 at 12:28:24PM -0800, Seeker wrote:
> On 12/5/2016 12:00 PM, Seeker wrote:
> >
> 

Thanks all for the replies. Looking at the options suggested, it looks 
like I have the following options:

1) systemd-networkd, it didn't provoke the vitriol I was half-expecting.

2) ifupdown -- this rings bells somewhere in the vaults of my memory, 
but I will need to do a bit of googling to remember / learn how to set 
it up. Isn't it a sysvinit thing though? Has it evolved comfortably into 
the new world of systemd? (to be clear I don't have a strong position on 
systemd vs sysvinit, but since Jessie the Debian default has migrated to 
systemd and in the absence of a strong opinion I have elected to go 
along with it)

3) NetworkManager -- not to start a flame war, but I've seen people on 
this list essentially equate NetworkManager to the sperm of the devil, 
so I was surprised a couple of people suggested it. I have no opinion 
myself. I was labouring under the perhaps incorrect belief that 
NetworkManager was a GNOME thing. I use GNOME on my Jessie box (and for 
all I know it could be using NetworkManager, albeit it is wired not 
wireless) but the machine I am dealing with here is running KDE.

Based on these I'll probably go with systemd-networkd as I have used it 
before in recent memory, albeit outside Debian. But I'll read up on the 
other two as well. Thanks all!

Mark

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#175474

On Tue 06 Dec 2016 at 08:05:20 +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:

> Thanks all for the replies. Looking at the options suggested, it looks 
> like I have the following options:

[Assessement of three options snipped].

As a matter of interest - why was connman written out of the history?

-- 
Brian.
 

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#175477

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 07:25:47PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 06 Dec 2016 at 08:05:20 +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> 
> > Thanks all for the replies. Looking at the options suggested, it looks 
> > like I have the following options:
> 
> [Assessement of three options snipped].
> 
> As a matter of interest - why was connman written out of the history?
> 

Maybe it sound too much like "con man".
:)

-H


-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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#175485

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 03:10:41PM -0500, Henning Follmann wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 07:25:47PM +0000, Brian wrote:

> > [Assessement of three options snipped].
> > 
> > As a matter of interest - why was connman written out of the history?
> > 
> 
> Maybe it sound too much like "con man".
> :)
> 
> -H

:)

Well, there was that, but mostly oversight / human frailty -- the 
closest I can come to a justification is that you mentioned that 
systemd-networkd borrowed from it, and since I already know 
systemd-networkd to some extent...

Nah, not very convincing to me either :)

Would you suggest it has advantages that recommend it over the other options?

Mark

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#175506

On Wed 07 Dec 2016 at 07:28:24 +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 03:10:41PM -0500, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 07:25:47PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> 
> > > [Assessement of three options snipped].
> > > 
> > > As a matter of interest - why was connman written out of the history?
> > > 
> > 
> > Maybe it sound too much like "con man".
> > :)
> > 
> > -H
> 
> :)
> 
> Well, there was that, but mostly oversight / human frailty -- the 
> closest I can come to a justification is that you mentioned that 
> systemd-networkd borrowed from it, and since I already know 
> systemd-networkd to some extent...
> 
> Nah, not very convincing to me either :)
> 
> Would you suggest it has advantages that recommend it over the other options?

connman is a modular system with services for DHCP and caching name
resolution implemented as plugins. systemd-networkd does something
similar because it borrowed these bits from connman. This can make the
behaviour of both to appear quite snappy when booting or surfing. If
connman competes with anything it is probably NetworkManager, but it
does not appear to have gained any traction in the desktop world.

connman handles a wired connection completely automatically. Plug in
an ethernet cable and everything is set up (including a configuration
file) almost without your knowing. A WiFi connection requires three
instructions from connmanctl after scanning and, again, the config
file is written for you. For your relatively simple setup it would
seem to have a slight edge.

However, ifupdown is lightweight and on the system (as is s-n) and
easy to set up too in /etc/network/interfaces.

-- 
Brian.

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#175447

wpa_passphrase ssid passphrase >>/etc/network/interfaces
Should handle encrypted keys and put them where they're needed.
On Mon, 5 
Dec 
2016, Seeker wrote:

> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 15:00:44
> From: Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: WiFi after initial install
> Resent-Date: Mon,  5 Dec 2016 20:09:37 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> On 12/5/2016 7:31 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
>
>> 
>> All my past Debian experience of setting up WiFi is pre-systemd /
>> pre-stretch, and a long time in my past so I have forgotten more than I
>> ever knew :) Outside Debian, I've done it on LFS using systemd-networkd
>> -- I know that can be made to work but it doesn't seem very Debianesque
>> to me.
>> 
>> Any suggestions on what I should do to set this up?
>> 
>> TIA
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>
> If your past experience is doing the setup in '/etc/network/interfaces'
>
> That has not changed. At least the way I do it has not changed.
>
> I'm running Debian unstable, with resolvconf installed so I can put the DNS 
> name servers in the iterfaces file. I use static IP addresses so my wireless 
> config looks something like....
>
> iface wlan0 inet static
>     address X.X.X.X
>     netmask X.X.X.X
>     gateway X.X.X.X
>     dns-nameservers X.X.X.X X.X.X.X
>     wpa-ssid your_ssid
>     wpa-psk Your_Wireless_Key
>
> The only changes to my wireless configuration over the years have been due to 
> interface name changes and at some point (probably when I switched from WEP 
> to WPA) the wireless part went from
>
> wireless-ssid
> wireless-psk
>
> to
>
> wpa-ssid
> wpa-psk
>
> so for dhcp should be something like.
>
> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
>     wpa-ssid your_ssid
>     wpa-psk Your_Wireless_Key
>
> If you have a need or just personal desire for your wirless key to be stored 
> in an encrypted format then you have to do some different configuration for 
> the WPA stuff, which I have not dug into since the above solution works for 
> my needs.
>
> Later, Seeker
>
>

-- 

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#175438

wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NetworkManager#Connect_to_network_with_secret_on_boot



Am 5. Dezember 2016 16:31:41 MEZ, schrieb Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com>:
>Hello the list!
>
>I have a Mini-ITX PC, a few months old, running KDE on Stretch. 
>
>When I installed it, I used a Stretch netinst image burned to a USB 
>stick and had the wired ethernet plugged in, for speed during the 
>installation. (and also because I didn't know what fun and games I'd
>end 
>up having with firmware if I tried to install with WiFi).
>
>After the duly-installed machine was located in its final home, well
>out 
>of reach of ethernet cables, I set up the WiFi using native KDE network
>
>tool thingy (bottom right corner of the screen).
>
>This works but has the, to me significant, disadvantage that if a user 
>has not logged into the machine, it is not connected to the network. So
>
>I can't fire up the machine and then log into it remotely from my other
>
>computers to do remote maintenance etc.
>
>It also seems to lose the network when the machine locks, but I am not 
>sure about this, as the machine is right on the edge of the WiFi 
>router's range, so it could be just getting lost when it goes quiet. I 
>have purchased a WiFi extension and will be setting it up once I have 
>networking more comfortably installed on this box.
>
>So, what I'd like to do, is set up WiFi networking on this box the 
>"right", up to date, "Debian" way, so it becomes available on boot and 
>doesn't require someone to have logged into KDE before the machine can 
>be accessed remotely.
>
>I'm somewhat aware of systemd-networkd, and I know that it is
>super-easy 
>to set up a DHCP-based wired ethernet connection that way, and I also 
>know it is possible to do so with a WiFi connection too -- but I 
>strongly suspect that is not the "Debian way".
>
>The WiFi connection is secured with a password, and my access point is 
>also a DHCP server. I'm expecting to use DHCP to get an IP address as I
>
>do with all other machines on my network.
>
>All my past Debian experience of setting up WiFi is pre-systemd / 
>pre-stretch, and a long time in my past so I have forgotten more than I
>
>ever knew :) Outside Debian, I've done it on LFS using systemd-networkd
>
>-- I know that can be made to work but it doesn't seem very Debianesque
>
>to me.
>
>Any suggestions on what I should do to set this up?
>
>TIA
>
>Mark

-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

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