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{Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc}

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  {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-02 19:10 +0100
    Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> - 2016-12-02 23:30 +0100
      Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2016-12-03 00:00 +0100
        Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-03 04:00 +0100
        Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 08:30 +0100
          Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-12-03 10:40 +0100
            Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-03 11:40 +0100
          Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> - 2016-12-03 14:10 +0100
            Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-12-03 15:20 +0100
              Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> - 2016-12-03 19:50 +0100
            Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2016-12-03 22:50 +0100
        Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-12-03 10:20 +0100
      Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-03 04:00 +0100
        Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> - 2016-12-03 14:10 +0100
          Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-03 15:30 +0100
            Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> - 2016-12-03 20:00 +0100
    Re: {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc} David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-12-03 19:50 +0100

#175338 — {Debian (>=Jessie)} AND { MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, etc}

I have a well used Lenovo R61 Thinkpad whose sole raison d'etre 
is to serve as a test platform for experiments which may 
spectacularly fail.

To quote a product description, it has:
   Card Reader
     4 in 1 card reader
     Supported Flash Memory
     Memory Stick PRO, MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, xD-Picture 
Card

My local supplier has 32GB cards in stock. Not sure which of the 
above flavors, as I just asked him what he had available that 
were compatible with my hardware.

I'm pondering an application that could be accomplished with USB 
flash drives.
It would be much "NICER" if that x GB were physically "inside" 
the laptop's profile.

My questions:
   1. Can Debian (and to what extent) make use of that storage?
   2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
      I'm thinking in terms of changing 
look/feel/function/capabilities/...
      of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
      [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence 
of boot devices.]
   3. Any Debian people using this capability who would care to 
comment?
      ["off list" replies fine]

TIA

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#175342

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Richard Owlett:
> I have a well used Lenovo R61 Thinkpad whose sole raison d'etre is to serve
> as a test platform for experiments which may spectacularly fail.
> 
> To quote a product description, it has:
>   Card Reader
>     4 in 1 card reader
>     Supported Flash Memory
>     Memory Stick PRO, MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, xD-Picture Card
> 
> My local supplier has 32GB cards in stock. Not sure which of the above
> flavors, as I just asked him what he had available that were compatible with
> my hardware.

He probably has SD cards. All other options in your list have come out
of fashion.

> I'm pondering an application that could be accomplished with USB flash
> drives.
> It would be much "NICER" if that x GB were physically "inside" the laptop's
> profile.

Beware that this might slightly increase power usage / reduce battery
life. That's at least my observation from a couple of years ago.
Depenging on the hardware, an SD card can keep a bus alive that could be
put to sleep otherwise. But if I would have to guess this is not an
issue for your use case.

> My questions:
>   1. Can Debian (and to what extent) make use of that storage?

Debian (the linux kernel) can use SD cards just like USB thumb drives or
other types of removable (and rewritable) storage. It's simply a block
device.

>   2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
>      I'm thinking in terms of changing look/feel/function/capabilities/...
>      of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
>      [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence of boot
> devices.]

Debian doesn't really care, but you would have to test whether your BIOS
can really boot from SD cards.

>   3. Any Debian people using this capability who would care to comment?
>      ["off list" replies fine]

I would like to see replies here. :)

J.
-- 
All participation is a myth.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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#175343

I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB. 

It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.
I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
issue for your use case.

Hope that is helpful,
      * Steven

On Fri, 2016-12-02 at 23:21 +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Richard Owlett:
> > I have a well used Lenovo R61 Thinkpad whose sole raison d'etre is to serve
> > as a test platform for experiments which may spectacularly fail.
> > 
> > To quote a product description, it has:
> >   Card Reader
> >     4 in 1 card reader
> >     Supported Flash Memory
> >     Memory Stick PRO, MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, xD-Picture Card
> > 
> > My local supplier has 32GB cards in stock. Not sure which of the above
> > flavors, as I just asked him what he had available that were compatible with
> > my hardware.
> 
> He probably has SD cards. All other options in your list have come out
> of fashion.
> 
> > I'm pondering an application that could be accomplished with USB flash
> > drives.
> > It would be much "NICER" if that x GB were physically "inside" the laptop's
> > profile.
> 
> Beware that this might slightly increase power usage / reduce battery
> life. That's at least my observation from a couple of years ago.
> Depenging on the hardware, an SD card can keep a bus alive that could be
> put to sleep otherwise. But if I would have to guess this is not an
> issue for your use case.
> 
> > My questions:
> >   1. Can Debian (and to what extent) make use of that storage?
> 
> Debian (the linux kernel) can use SD cards just like USB thumb drives or
> other types of removable (and rewritable) storage. It's simply a block
> device.
> 
> >   2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
> >      I'm thinking in terms of changing look/feel/function/capabilities/...
> >      of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
> >      [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence of boot
> > devices.]
> 
> Debian doesn't really care, but you would have to test whether your BIOS
> can really boot from SD cards.
> 
> >   3. Any Debian people using this capability who would care to comment?
> >      ["off list" replies fine]
> 
> I would like to see replies here. :)
> 
> J.

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#175349

On 12/2/2016 4:48 PM, Steven Mainor wrote:
> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
>
> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.
> I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
> issue for your use case.

I suspect I can set it up so that the hard disk gets the 
"volatile" load.
That would be something to determine experimentally.


>
> Hope that is helpful,
>        * Steven
>
> On Fri, 2016-12-02 at 23:21 +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>> Richard Owlett:
>>> I have a well used Lenovo R61 Thinkpad whose sole raison d'etre is to serve
>>> as a test platform for experiments which may spectacularly fail.
>>>
>>> To quote a product description, it has:
>>>    Card Reader
>>>      4 in 1 card reader
>>>      Supported Flash Memory
>>>      Memory Stick PRO, MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, xD-Picture Card
>>>
>>> My local supplier has 32GB cards in stock. Not sure which of the above
>>> flavors, as I just asked him what he had available that were compatible with
>>> my hardware.
>>
>> He probably has SD cards. All other options in your list have come out
>> of fashion.
>>
>>> I'm pondering an application that could be accomplished with USB flash
>>> drives.
>>> It would be much "NICER" if that x GB were physically "inside" the laptop's
>>> profile.
>>
>> Beware that this might slightly increase power usage / reduce battery
>> life. That's at least my observation from a couple of years ago.
>> Depenging on the hardware, an SD card can keep a bus alive that could be
>> put to sleep otherwise. But if I would have to guess this is not an
>> issue for your use case.
>>
>>> My questions:
>>>    1. Can Debian (and to what extent) make use of that storage?
>>
>> Debian (the linux kernel) can use SD cards just like USB thumb drives or
>> other types of removable (and rewritable) storage. It's simply a block
>> device.
>>
>>>    2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
>>>       I'm thinking in terms of changing look/feel/function/capabilities/...
>>>       of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
>>>       [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence of boot
>>> devices.]
>>
>> Debian doesn't really care, but you would have to test whether your BIOS
>> can really boot from SD cards.
>>
>>>    3. Any Debian people using this capability who would care to comment?
>>>       ["off list" replies fine]
>>
>> I would like to see replies here. :)
>>
>> J.
>
>
>

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#175353

Steven Mainor wrote:

> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
> 
> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.
> I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
> issue for your use case.
> 
I don't think so. I have a low power industrial pc used as firewall. It runs
on Compact Flash card for >6y now. I recall there were at least 100000
write cycles per sector and self diagnostic, so I would suspect something
else would be the problem.

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#175356

On 2016-12-03, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steven Mainor wrote:
>
>> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
>> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
>> 
>> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
>> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.
>> I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
>> issue for your use case.
>> 
> I don't think so. I have a low power industrial pc used as firewall. It runs
> on Compact Flash card for >6y now. I recall there were at least 100000
> write cycles per sector and self diagnostic, so I would suspect something
> else would be the problem.
>

Wouldn't some of the advice for SSD optimization
(https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization) to improve life span and avoid
"degradation" (if that's indeed the word) be applicable here?

-- 
“It is enough that the arrows fit exactly in the wounds that they have made.”
Franz Kafka

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#175357

On 12/3/2016 3:33 AM, Curt wrote:
> On 2016-12-03, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steven Mainor wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
>>> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
>>>
>>> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
>>> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.
>>> I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
>>> issue for your use case.
>>>
>> I don't think so. I have a low power industrial pc used as firewall. It runs
>> on Compact Flash card for >6y now. I recall there were at least 100000
>> write cycles per sector and self diagnostic, so I would suspect something
>> else would be the problem.
>>
>
> Wouldn't some of the advice for SSD optimization
> (https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization) to improve life span and avoid
> "degradation" (if that's indeed the word) be applicable here?
>

A useful survey with some good links. It reminded me of this I 
sort of knew. Now I have some keywords to use when searching for 
more reading material.

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#175361

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deloptes:
> Steven Mainor wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
>> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
>> 
>> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
>> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.
>> I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
>> issue for your use case.
>> 
> I don't think so. I have a low power industrial pc used as firewall. It runs
> on Compact Flash card for >6y now. I recall there were at least 100000
> write cycles per sector and self diagnostic, so I would suspect something
> else would be the problem.

CF cards were much more clever from the beginning compared to cheaper
alternatives (like SSD or MMC cards). I would expect them to have better
wear levelling than a common SD card.

J.
-- 
When I get home from the supermarket I don't know what to do with all the
plastic.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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#175364

Le 03/12/2016 à 13:59, Jochen Spieker a écrit :
> deloptes:
>> Steven Mainor wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
>>> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
>>>
>>> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
>>> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.
>>> I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
>>> issue for your use case.
>>>
>> I don't think so. I have a low power industrial pc used as firewall. It runs
>> on Compact Flash card for >6y now. I recall there were at least 100000
>> write cycles per sector and self diagnostic, so I would suspect something
>> else would be the problem.
>
> CF cards were much more clever from the beginning compared to cheaper
> alternatives (like SSD or MMC cards). I would expect them to have better
> wear levelling than a common SD card.

I would be surprised that a CF card be more clever than a SSD.
However 100000 erase/write cycles/block implies the use of NOR or SLC 
NAND flash memory chips, the types with highest endurance but lowest 
density. I doubt you can find this in SD cards. MLC NAND endurance can 
be 100 times lower.

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#175372

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Pascal Hambourg:
> Le 03/12/2016 à 13:59, Jochen Spieker a écrit :
>> 
>> CF cards were much more clever from the beginning compared to cheaper
>> alternatives (like SSD or MMC cards). I would expect them to have better
>> wear levelling than a common SD card.
> 
> I would be surprised that a CF card be more clever than a SSD.

Sure. I meant to write "SD or MMC cards".

J.
-- 
It is not in my power to change anything.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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#175384

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Yeah the card I was referring to was just a simple microSD card like what you would put in your camera. I was running a normal install of debian without any kind of "live" or ram disk setup. Not ideal for flash without wear leveling


On December 3, 2016 7:59:48 AM EST, Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> wrote:
>deloptes:
>> Steven Mainor wrote:
>> 
>>> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from
>a
>>> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
>>> 
>>> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think
>running
>>> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too
>quickly.
>>> I eventually decided to find another solution. But it may not be an
>>> issue for your use case.
>>> 
>> I don't think so. I have a low power industrial pc used as firewall.
>It runs
>> on Compact Flash card for >6y now. I recall there were at least
>100000
>> write cycles per sector and self diagnostic, so I would suspect
>something
>> else would be the problem.
>
>CF cards were much more clever from the beginning compared to cheaper
>alternatives (like SSD or MMC cards). I would expect them to have
>better
>wear levelling than a common SD card.
>
>J.
>-- 
>When I get home from the supermarket I don't know what to do with all
>the
>plastic.
>[Agree]   [Disagree]
>            <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

--
Steven Mainor

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#175355

Le 02/12/2016 à 23:48, Steven Mainor a écrit :
> I don't know if this helps answer #3 or not. I have ran Debian from a
> microSD flash card before but the card reader was attached via USB.
>
> It didn't last very long before the flash card degraded. I think running
> an operating system on flash used up the read/write cycles too quickly.

I guess you mean erase/write cycles. Read operation does not use flash 
memory much.

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#175350

On 12/2/2016 4:21 PM, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Richard Owlett:
>> I have a well used Lenovo R61 Thinkpad whose sole raison d'etre is to serve
>> as a test platform for experiments which may spectacularly fail.
>>
>> To quote a product description, it has:
>>    Card Reader
>>      4 in 1 card reader
>>      Supported Flash Memory
>>      Memory Stick PRO, MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, xD-Picture Card
>>
>> My local supplier has 32GB cards in stock. Not sure which of the above
>> flavors, as I just asked him what he had available that were compatible with
>> my hardware.
>
> He probably has SD cards. All other options in your list have come out
> of fashion.
>
>> I'm pondering an application that could be accomplished with USB flash
>> drives.
>> It would be much "NICER" if that x GB were physically "inside" the laptop's
>> profile.
>
> Beware that this might slightly increase power usage / reduce battery
> life. That's at least my observation from a couple of years ago.
> Depenging on the hardware, an SD card can keep a bus alive that could be
> put to sleep otherwise. But if I would have to guess this is not an
> issue for your use case.

No problem for medium term. It will sit on my desk next to my 
"regular" machine.

>
>> My questions:
>>    1. Can Debian (and to what extent) make use of that storage?
>
> Debian (the linux kernel) can use SD cards just like USB thumb drives or
> other types of removable (and rewritable) storage. It's simply a block
> device.

I was assuming that but thought it better to ask.

>
>>    2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
>>       I'm thinking in terms of changing look/feel/function/capabilities/...
>>       of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
>>       [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence of boot
>> devices.]
>
> Debian doesn't really care, but you would have to test whether your BIOS
> can really boot from SD cards.

If it "looks" the same as a USB flash device, there should be no 
problem.


>
>>    3. Any Debian people using this capability who would care to comment?
>>       ["off list" replies fine]
>
> I would like to see replies here. :)
>
> J.
>

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#175362

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Richard Owlett:
> On 12/2/2016 4:21 PM, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>> 
>> Beware that this might slightly increase power usage / reduce battery
>> life. That's at least my observation from a couple of years ago.
>> Depenging on the hardware, an SD card can keep a bus alive that could be
>> put to sleep otherwise. But if I would have to guess this is not an
>> issue for your use case.
> 
> No problem for medium term. It will sit on my desk next to my "regular"
> machine.

That's what I thought.

>>>   2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
>>>      I'm thinking in terms of changing look/feel/function/capabilities/...
>>>      of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
>>>      [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence of boot
>>> devices.]
>> 
>> Debian doesn't really care, but you would have to test whether your BIOS
>> can really boot from SD cards.
> 
> If it "looks" the same as a USB flash device, there should be no problem.

For Linux the bus doesn't really matter. But again, for your BIOS it
does. As far as I understand, that's hardware specific. Some card
readers are internally wired to USB which gives you a good chance to
boot from it. As far as I can see on the ThinkWiki
(http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:R61 pointing to
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Ricoh_R5C843), the R61 is different.

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T61-and-prior-T-series/Boot-T61p-from-SD-card/m-p/261121/highlight/true#M41072
looks like you are out of luck.

J.
-- 
If I could have anything in the world it would have to be more money.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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#175365

On 12/3/2016 7:05 AM, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Richard Owlett:
>> On 12/2/2016 4:21 PM, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>>>
>>> Beware that this might slightly increase power usage / reduce battery
>>> life. That's at least my observation from a couple of years ago.
>>> Depenging on the hardware, an SD card can keep a bus alive that could be
>>> put to sleep otherwise. But if I would have to guess this is not an
>>> issue for your use case.
>>
>> No problem for medium term. It will sit on my desk next to my "regular"
>> machine.
>
> That's what I thought.
>
>>>>    2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
>>>>       I'm thinking in terms of changing look/feel/function/capabilities/...
>>>>       of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
>>>>       [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence of boot
>>>> devices.]
>>>
>>> Debian doesn't really care, but you would have to test whether your BIOS
>>> can really boot from SD cards.
>>
>> If it "looks" the same as a USB flash device, there should be no problem.
>
> For Linux the bus doesn't really matter. But again, for your BIOS it
> does. As far as I understand, that's hardware specific. Some card
> readers are internally wired to USB which gives you a good chance to
> boot from it. As far as I can see on the ThinkWiki
> (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:R61 pointing to
> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Ricoh_R5C843), the R61 is different.
>
> https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T61-and-prior-T-series/Boot-T61p-from-SD-card/m-p/261121/highlight/true#M41072
> looks like you are out of luck.
>

Maybe. May be not. I suspect most of what I was thinking of by 
having Grub/LILO/??? reside on the HDD. The behind the scenes 
motivation is create a "project" that will serve as a learning 
experience.

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#175373

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Richard Owlett:
> On 12/3/2016 7:05 AM, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>> 
>> https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T61-and-prior-T-series/Boot-T61p-from-SD-card/m-p/261121/highlight/true#M41072
>> looks like you are out of luck.
>> 
> 
> Maybe. May be not. I suspect most of what I was thinking of by having
> Grub/LILO/??? reside on the HDD. The behind the scenes motivation is create
> a "project" that will serve as a learning experience.

Oh, sorry, in that case you should be able to simply install to your SD
cards. You just have to make sure not to confuse your boot loader,
especially when the configuration is automatically recreated while the
SD card is absent.

J.
-- 
I often blame my shortcomings on my upbringing.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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#175371

On 12/02/16 10:07, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have a well used Lenovo R61 Thinkpad whose sole raison d'etre is to
> serve as a test platform for experiments which may spectacularly fail.
>
> To quote a product description, it has:
>   Card Reader
>     4 in 1 card reader
>     Supported Flash Memory
>     Memory Stick PRO, MultiMediaCard, SD Memory Card, xD-Picture Card
>
> My local supplier has 32GB cards in stock. Not sure which of the above
> flavors, as I just asked him what he had available that were compatible
> with my hardware.
>
> I'm pondering an application that could be accomplished with USB flash
> drives.
> It would be much "NICER" if that x GB were physically "inside" the
> laptop's profile.
>
> My questions:
>   1. Can Debian (and to what extent) make use of that storage?
>   2. Can Debian itself reside on that medium?
>      I'm thinking in terms of changing look/feel/function/capabilities/...
>      of the machine by swapping media before "power up".
>      [The BIOS *DOES* have some capability to specify precedence of boot
> devices.]
>   3. Any Debian people using this capability who would care to comment?
>      ["off list" replies fine]

I discovered that Debian can be installed to USB flash drives a few 
years ago, and now use them as a poor man's SSD system drive in my file 
server and backup server.


My favorite are SanDisk Ultra Fit 3.0 16 GB -- they have a compact form 
factor that only sticks out of the port ~1/4", they seek faster than a 
HDD (so random reads are faster than a HDD), and they write fast enough. 
  The downside is that they run hot and the machine can stutter when 
multitasking.  I provision them using 90% capacity (0.5 GB boot, 0.5 GB 
encrypted swap, 13.4 GB encrypted root) per SSD under-provisioning 
recommendations, but haven't done any benchmarking to see if it has any 
effect.  AFAIK there is no such thing as trim or secure erase on USB 
flash drives.  I haven't seen any problems with worn out blocks (yet).


As others have commented, I don't think SDHC cards are designed for a 
lot of erase/ write cycles.  STFW for the specifications to be sure.


I worked on a wearable computer product in late 2001 with a Windows 2000 
CF system drive.  The CF cards were chosen for motion/ vibration/ impact 
resistance and were expected to last at least as long as a HDD sitting 
in a desktop.  Again, STFW for specifications.


David

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