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Zero filling my HDD before installation

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  Zero filling my HDD before installation CD Lexi <cdl3x1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 17:20 +0200
    Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation "heqamilus@runbox.com" <heqamilus@runbox.com> - 2016-05-02 17:40 +0200
    Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation "heqamilus@runbox.com" <heqamilus@runbox.com> - 2016-05-02 17:50 +0200
    Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Peter Ludikovsky <peter@ludikovsky.name> - 2016-05-02 17:50 +0200
      Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Peter Ludikovsky <peter@ludikovsky.name> - 2016-05-02 18:10 +0200
        Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation "heqamilus@runbox.com" <heqamilus@runbox.com> - 2016-05-02 18:30 +0200
          Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation "heqamilus@runbox.com" <heqamilus@runbox.com> - 2016-05-02 19:20 +0200
            Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 19:50 +0200
              Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation "heqamilus@runbox.com" <heqamilus@runbox.com> - 2016-05-02 20:00 +0200
              Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Michael Luecke <michael-t0gi6s@mluecke.eu> - 2016-05-02 20:40 +0200
                Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 21:20 +0200
            Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2016-05-02 20:00 +0200
            Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation hu2016 <hu2016@hmamail.com> - 2016-05-02 20:00 +0200
    Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 01:10 +0200
    Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation Thomas D Dial <tdial@cox.net> - 2016-05-03 01:10 +0200
      Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation CD Lexi <cdl3x1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 01:30 +0200

#167373 — Zero filling my HDD before installation

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Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if that
wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I should have
never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or flogging my system
to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work should have been my
tip off....I digress...

My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I run
them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my only
accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my important
documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried about losing user
data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an HDD before installing
Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the ISO and Zero or Random
Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted Debian, but will doing this
to my hard drive stop me from being able to install from the USB to the
HDD? I guess because I've never really messed with the BIOS in windows,
aside from neccisity, I'm just worried if I zero fill and for some reason
my laptop reboots before the new install, it won't boot from the USB
anymore and thus make me have to find another computer from which to
install DB. This is probably a rookie question, but better safe then sorry
with my first full HDD sanitzation. Thanks!!!

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#167374

On 05/02/2016 05:00 PM, CD Lexi wrote:
> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,


Very good choice. Are you expert? If not try to check if you prefer to
use ubuntu instead.

How old is your laptop?

> 
> My question is this:


Your laptop has a dvd drive? if yes you don't need to worry about your
usb key.

I suggest you to download the live version of debian, this allow you to
try debian before installing.

BTW, In liknux you can choose which Graphics Interface to have in your pc.

Using a live version will allow you tu choose the best for you.

You can get the live version from the official website:

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.4.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

Regards.

H.

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#167375

If you want to encrypt your hard drive using a passphrase debian
automatically wipe all your disk using random data.

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#167376

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Hello & welcome to Linux!

To be honest, I haven't found a good reason to zero any media, unless I
was decommissioning it and/or selling it. When you create a new file
system on installation, any new information will overwrite the old one.
And as soon as it's created, the old file system won't be able to
interfere with the system anymore.

Besides, with SSDs and some newer HDDs, you can't be sure that there
won't be something left over in a block that was marked defect and isn't
accessed anymore.

Regards,
/peter

Am 02.05.2016 um 17:00 schrieb CD Lexi:
> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
> should have been my tip off....I digress...
> 
> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
> 

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#167378

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Hi,

1) You might want to use "Reply to list", so that all readers can see
your answer.
2) Unneeded files are gone, as soon as you format the disk. Same for any
malware, aside from the fact that Windows malware won't run on Linux
anyway. The only thing possible would be people recovering date from
unused blocks, and that is easily mitigated by encrypting the disk if
you're concerned enough. At least with dm-crypt and luks _all_ sectors
are encrypted, no matter if used or not.

Regards,
/peter

Am 02.05.2016 um 17:50 schrieb Ralph Sanchez:
> Heqamilus --- Not an expert, but I've worked with Kali and Backtrack
> for quite a while from USB live boot and figure, if I didn't kill
> myself virtually while perm logged in as a root user, I should be okay
> switching to debian. Plus it's more secure, to me, and better as far
> as apt-get programs and what not, imho from research.
> 
> My laptop is two years old, an ASUS model with 280 gig HDD, 4 g ram,
> intel I forget processor lol
> 
> NO DVD OR CD DRIVE
> 
> and your saying it will allow me an option for encryption and random
> fill before, during or after install??
> 
> 
> Peter _ I have multiple reasons to want to sanitize and zero or random
> fill my hdd. Multiple copies of unneeded files, things I don't want
> people accessing if they would get through my sec, possibilities of
> malware/viruses/keyboard logging, etc that will continue to effect my
> system. I want a fresh start. And I know you can't be 100% sure,
> unless you initiate multiple passes and try to recover your disk using
> another system to check, still not 100% sure but better then blind
> trust.
> 
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Peter Ludikovsky <peter@ludikovsky.name> wrote:
>> Hello & welcome to Linux!
>>
>> To be honest, I haven't found a good reason to zero any media, unless I
>> was decommissioning it and/or selling it. When you create a new file
>> system on installation, any new information will overwrite the old one.
>> And as soon as it's created, the old file system won't be able to
>> interfere with the system anymore.
>>
>> Besides, with SSDs and some newer HDDs, you can't be sure that there
>> won't be something left over in a block that was marked defect and isn't
>> accessed anymore.
>>
>> Regards,
>> /peter
>>
>> Am 02.05.2016 um 17:00 schrieb CD Lexi:
>>> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
>>> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
>>> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
>>> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
>>> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
>>> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
>>> should have been my tip off....I digress...
>>>
>>> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
>>> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
>>> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
>>> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
>>> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
>>> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
>>> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
>>> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
>>> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
>>> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
>>> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
>>> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
>>> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
>>> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
>>> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
>>> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
>>>
>>

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#167379

 Am 02.05.2016 um 17:50 schrieb Ralph Sanchez:
> Heqamilus --- Not an expert, but I've worked with Kali and Backtrack
> for quite a while from USB live boot and figure, if I didn't kill
> myself virtually while perm logged in as a root user, I should be okay
> switching to debian. Plus it's more secure, to me, and better as far
> as apt-get programs and what not, imho from research.

Ok, just make sure yourself to have always a working OS, "just in case".
So I suggest to act like this:

1) Download latest debian live, whatever version
2) verify iso and burn in usb
3) test live (wifi working etc)
4) install, by following the easystep

You can make sure that all of your hardware will work on debian. If you
can't get you HW to work, you need to download a special version of
debian that contain non free software

IMHO is better to not use the live installer to surf the web or do
anythings other than testing drivers (for security)

>
> and your saying it will allow me an option for encryption and random
> fill before, during or after install??

During installation of linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora... ) you can choose
to perform a full encrypted installation.
While the installer encrypt your disk, all the sector of your hard drive
will be overwriten. This is for make impossible to recover userdata by
software.

For you this is useful because if someone stole you laptop or you lose
it you don't need to worry about your data being stolen.

Good Luck

H.

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#167380

Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.

Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
that you use for unlock your hard disk.

Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
this step by pressing "cancel" button


please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption

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#167382

I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work? I
currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
these other encryption methods.

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:16 PM, heqamilus@runbox.com
<heqamilus@runbox.com> wrote:
> Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.
>
> Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
> that you use for unlock your hard disk.
>
> Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
> this step by pressing "cancel" button
>
>
> please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption
>

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#167386

On 05/02/2016 07:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez wrote:
> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work?

yes, good job!


>I currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,

passphrase are just password but more long in character

> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
> phrase.

malware can do bad things anyway.

when you power on your laptop only the OS is running and ask for your
password, no need to worry about malware at this time.

Only if someone has physical access to your pc can.

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#167391

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work?

It seems so, make sure you're replying to the list's address (here:
"debian-user@lists.debian.org"). It's usually not neccessary to reply
to all [1].  In this lists code of conduct [2] there's the rule, that
one should not send a CC to the original poster unless he requested
it.

> I currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
> these other encryption methods.

You could use a usb drive or a SD card with a keyfile on it with
dm-crypt/LUKS. Maybe you want to read [3] which is a quiet good howto
for dm-crypt.

Michael

[1] http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
[2] https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.en.html#codeofconduct
[3] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work? I
> currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
> these other encryption methods.
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:16 PM, heqamilus@runbox.com
> <heqamilus@runbox.com> wrote:
>> Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.
>>
>> Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
>> that you use for unlock your hard disk.
>>
>> Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
>> this step by pressing "cancel" button
>>
>>
>> please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.
>>
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption
>>
>

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#167394

First, my apologies to everyone I CC'ed accidently. I thought when I
replied, it was replying to the post not to each email. I'm not used
to replying to things in this manner, I usually only communicate with
people one on one unless on a forum site.

Ha- Thanks for the advice, I'll look into that option too.

Heq- Maybe it's rookie of me, but I wasn't aware of that limitation of
malware, great info. I try to operate on the condition that anything I
don't specifically try to prevent could happen, regardless of if I
think it is or will be possible. Maybe it's paranoia, or OCD. Or both
haha. I was aware of the difference between passphrase and password,
apologies if I made it seem like I didn't. I tend to use whatever
words come to mind sometimes and hope the context is enough to make it
understandable, if I made a mistake it isn't the first time : )

Mic- Thanks for the reading material, and warning about the code of
conduct. I'm usually wary of such things, but as I said, I wasn't
aware of what I was doing until after I had been told so, and thought
I fixed it the first time and apparently not so. Totally my fault and
an oversight.

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Michael Luecke
<michael-t0gi6s@mluecke.eu> wrote:
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work?
>
> It seems so, make sure you're replying to the list's address (here:
> "debian-user@lists.debian.org"). It's usually not neccessary to reply
> to all [1].  In this lists code of conduct [2] there's the rule, that
> one should not send a CC to the original poster unless he requested
> it.
>
>> I currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
>> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
>> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
>> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
>> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
>> these other encryption methods.
>
> You could use a usb drive or a SD card with a keyfile on it with
> dm-crypt/LUKS. Maybe you want to read [3] which is a quiet good howto
> for dm-crypt.
>
> Michael
>
> [1] http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
> [2] https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.en.html#codeofconduct
> [3] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work? I
>> currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
>> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
>> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
>> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
>> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
>> these other encryption methods.
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:16 PM, heqamilus@runbox.com
>> <heqamilus@runbox.com> wrote:
>>> Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.
>>>
>>> Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
>>> that you use for unlock your hard disk.
>>>
>>> Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
>>> this step by pressing "cancel" button
>>>
>>>
>>> please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption
>>>
>>
>

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#167384

Hi,
if unsure, start with a livefile system (like knoppix) and use "shred" to 
delete the device.

But be warned: To do so, EVERYTHING will be lost!

After that, you can install any OS you want again.

Best regards

Hans

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#167385

Hi,
if unsure, start with a livefile system (like knoppix) and use "shred" to 
delete the device.

But be warned: To do so, EVERYTHING will be lost!

After that, you can install any OS you want again.

Best regards

Hans

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#167401

Also for the record, reasons I hate windows: It keeps defaulting to
another email I created for testing out some email thing instead of
the one I think i'm currently signed in under. FML. lol

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Thomas D Dial <tdial@cox.net> wrote:
> Yes, from my experience it is safe. You may have to add a partition
> table before formatting it. If I recall correctly, cfdisk will complain
> mildly and ask you to do that. The Linux installer might take it in
> stride, or you might have to run fdisk or cfdisk from the USB ISO.
>
> Tom Dial
>
>
> On 05/02/2016 09:00 AM, CD Lexi wrote:
>> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
>> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
>> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
>> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
>> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
>> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
>> should have been my tip off....I digress...
>>
>> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
>> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
>> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
>> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
>> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
>> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
>> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
>> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
>> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
>> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
>> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
>> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
>> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
>> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
>> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
>> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
>>
>

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#167402

Yes, from my experience it is safe. You may have to add a partition
table before formatting it. If I recall correctly, cfdisk will complain
mildly and ask you to do that. The Linux installer might take it in
stride, or you might have to run fdisk or cfdisk from the USB ISO.

Tom Dial


On 05/02/2016 09:00 AM, CD Lexi wrote:
> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
> should have been my tip off....I digress...
> 
> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
> 

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#167403

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Thanks Tom, jic I still take that route. It seems that installing the OS
and then ecrypting it during the install will do the same job as running
something like Sdelete or Dban, or any other similar program, so I think
just to stay on the safe side not knowing how this particular HDD will
react I'll do it that way and if I ever feel the need, I'll just replace
the HDD and degausse (spelling?? lol) this one.

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Thomas D Dial <tdial@cox.net> wrote:

> Yes, from my experience it is safe. You may have to add a partition
> table before formatting it. If I recall correctly, cfdisk will complain
> mildly and ask you to do that. The Linux installer might take it in
> stride, or you might have to run fdisk or cfdisk from the USB ISO.
>
> Tom Dial
>
>
> On 05/02/2016 09:00 AM, CD Lexi wrote:
> > Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> > used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
> > control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
> > that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
> > should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
> > flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
> > should have been my tip off....I digress...
> >
> > My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
> > run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
> > repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
> > only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
> > important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
> > about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
> > HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
> > ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
> > Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
> > install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
> > messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
> > if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
> > install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
> > find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
> > rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
> > sanitzation. Thanks!!!
> >
>

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