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Repeated failure of install of Jessie

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  Repeated failure of install of Jessie Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-03-29 22:10 +0200
    Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 00:10 +0200
      Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2016-03-30 01:00 +0200
        Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 12:30 +0200
          Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2016-03-30 18:50 +0200
            Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 19:20 +0200
              ERRATUM Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-31 01:10 +0200
          Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2016-03-31 19:30 +0200
            Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 19:00 +0200
              Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 19:10 +0200
                SOLVED - I hope! was: Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 04:20 +0200
                  Re: SOLVED - I hope! was: Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2016-04-09 12:30 +0200
          Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-04-02 06:20 +0200
            Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 00:10 +0200
              Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-04-04 01:00 +0200
    Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 00:20 +0200
      Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@galactic.demon.co.uk> - 2016-03-30 00:40 +0200
    Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2016-03-30 00:50 +0200
    Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-30 01:10 +0200
    Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-30 06:40 +0200
      Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-03-30 17:20 +0200
        Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 18:00 +0200
        Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-31 11:20 +0200
        Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-31 14:50 +0200
    Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-04-01 20:30 +0200

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#166079 — Repeated failure of install of Jessie

Long before I joined this List, I purchased a DVD and a thumb device from
LinuxCollections.  The DVD contained the first Jessie DVD, and, I'm guessing,
the thumb device contained the rest.

I kept the same partitions that I had had on my old squeezy install.
the first was /boot, the fifth was /, the sixth was /usr, the seventh
was /var, the eighth was swap, the ninth was /tmp and the tenth was
/home.  The sizes I kept from  squeezy; all were overly generous(my HD
is one TB.)

I reformatted them all with ext4 at first, then later with
ext3, which what my old system had.  [  Sorry for the vague terminology,
I'm writing this on a loaner Windoze box many yards away from my
own machine and documentation. ]

The _many_ install attempts crashed at random points but after a while
they congregated when I tried to choose a kernel.  After choosing a kernel
one must then choose the associated drivers.  This crashed almost inevitably,
although once I got through to stage where I received a black screen with
the white text prompt 'grub>'.  This was before the kernel was booted, and
I have no clue how to use this, even if I once again get this far.

I have tried choosing 'none' for a kernel.  But then one must choose an
installer.  I've tried choosing grub, even tried using the ancient LILO.
All produce red screens, indicating failures of one kind or other.

I have discovered the informative 'tty4' where the progress of the installation
is more copiously displayed.

And now I'm meandering, for I don't know what further information to give, that
will help the members here to make further suggestions.  But I shall be grateful
for any help I receive.

Ala

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#166080

On Tuesday 29 March 2016 21:08:19 Alan McConnell wrote:
> Long before I joined this List, I purchased a DVD and a thumb device from
> LinuxCollections.  The DVD contained the first Jessie DVD, and, I'm
> guessing, the thumb device contained the rest.
>
> I kept the same partitions that I had had on my old squeezy install.
> the first was /boot, the fifth was /, the sixth was /usr, the seventh
> was /var, the eighth was swap, the ninth was /tmp and the tenth was
> /home.  The sizes I kept from  squeezy; all were overly generous(my HD
> is one TB.)
>
> I reformatted them all with ext4 at first, then later with
> ext3, which what my old system had.  [  Sorry for the vague terminology,
> I'm writing this on a loaner Windoze box many yards away from my
> own machine and documentation. ]
>
> The _many_ install attempts crashed at random points but after a while
> they congregated when I tried to choose a kernel.  After choosing a kernel
> one must then choose the associated drivers.  This crashed almost
> inevitably, although once I got through to stage where I received a black
> screen with the white text prompt 'grub>'.  This was before the kernel was
> booted, and I have no clue how to use this, even if I once again get this
> far.
>
> I have tried choosing 'none' for a kernel.  But then one must choose an
> installer.  I've tried choosing grub, even tried using the ancient LILO.
> All produce red screens, indicating failures of one kind or other.
>
> I have discovered the informative 'tty4' where the progress of the
> installation is more copiously displayed.
>
> And now I'm meandering, for I don't know what further information to give,
> that will help the members here to make further suggestions.  But I shall
> be grateful for any help I receive.

No help - but "Join the club".  Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.  
Mine was a new computer and, after over a day of tearing my hair out, trying 
again, trying differently,and re-downloading etc. etc., I installed Ubuntu 
MATE (how are the mighty fallen!!),  just to make sure that something would 
install.  It did.  I am about to try a few more methods of getting Jessie on.  
But I want a night's sleep first!  (This is a companion saga to the one I 
have already reported, not the same one).  It is not helped by the fact that 
check sums are not available for the 8.02 or 8.03 firmware net-install isos.  
And 8.0.0 (for which I have got the check sums) has not got the necessary 
drivers.

I have been installing Debian for years on a good many different computers of 
different ages.  I have NEVER had problems like this.  I expect a basic 
Debian installation to take half an hour, not days.

One of the tech help chaps, at the shop from which I bought the computer, 
suggested forgetting about gpt and sticking with Legacy, and looking at the 
Windows settings in the BIOS, which he though might be interfering.  As I 
said, I am going to have a night's sleep first.  I didn't get much last night 
because I was battling with this.   FWIW, Ubuntu insisted on installing with 
Legacy partitions, not gpt.

I had not got the motherboard manual and did not know what the motherboard 
was, so couldn't download the manual.  I have now asked the shop what it is, 
and downloaded the manual.

Lisi

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#166085

Lisi Reisz wrote:
>
>No help - but "Join the club".  Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.  
>Mine was a new computer and, after over a day of tearing my hair out, trying 
>again, trying differently,and re-downloading etc. etc., I installed Ubuntu 
>MATE (how are the mighty fallen!!),  just to make sure that something would 
>install.  It did.  I am about to try a few more methods of getting Jessie on.  
>But I want a night's sleep first!  (This is a companion saga to the one I 
>have already reported, not the same one).  It is not helped by the fact that 
>check sums are not available for the 8.02 or 8.03 firmware net-install isos.  
>And 8.0.0 (for which I have got the check sums) has not got the necessary 
>drivers.

We've never made 8.02 or 8.03 firmware netinstall images. If you mean
8.2.0 or 8.3.0, look in the directories on cdimage.debian.org for the
signed checksums alongside the images:

  http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/archive/8.2.0/amd64/iso-cd/
  (8.2.0 in the archive)
  http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/8.3.0/amd64/iso-cd/
  (8.3.0, the current stable release)

and there are signed checksum files for *all* the images we publish.

>I have been installing Debian for years on a good many different computers of 
>different ages.  I have NEVER had problems like this.  I expect a basic 
>Debian installation to take half an hour, not days.

Ouch. :-(

>One of the tech help chaps, at the shop from which I bought the computer, 
>suggested forgetting about gpt and sticking with Legacy, and looking at the 
>Windows settings in the BIOS, which he though might be interfering.  As I 
>said, I am going to have a night's sleep first.  I didn't get much last night 
>because I was battling with this.   FWIW, Ubuntu insisted on installing with 
>Legacy partitions, not gpt.
>
>I had not got the motherboard manual and did not know what the motherboard 
>was, so couldn't download the manual.  I have now asked the shop what it is, 
>and downloaded the manual.

Are you trying to dual-boot with Windows, or replace the Windows
setup? If you're talking about GPT, you're looking at a UEFI/legacy
BIOS choice. There *are* machines/motherboards which come stupidly
configured out of the box to boot removable media in one mode
(e.g. UEFI) but to use the *other* mode (e.g. BIOS) for booting off
hard disk. You then can end up with a system where the installer will
appear to work flawlessly, but the newly-installed system will fail to
boot.

If you've found out the manufacturer/model for your motherboard,
telling us what you have could be helpful here.

I'm surprised to hear that Ubuntu worked but not Debian at this point
- under the covers, the installers for both are remarkably similar...

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out
 whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast."
 Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html

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#166099

On Tuesday 29 March 2016 23:55:33 Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >No help - but "Join the club".  Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
> >Mine was a new computer and, after over a day of tearing my hair out,
> > trying again, trying differently,and re-downloading etc. etc., I
> > installed Ubuntu MATE (how are the mighty fallen!!),  just to make sure
> > that something would install.  It did.  I am about to try a few more
> > methods of getting Jessie on. But I want a night's sleep first!  (This is
> > a companion saga to the one I have already reported, not the same one). 
> > It is not helped by the fact that check sums are not available for the
> > 8.02 or 8.03 firmware net-install isos. And 8.0.0 (for which I have got
> > the check sums) has not got the necessary drivers.
>
> We've never made 8.02 or 8.03 firmware netinstall images. If you mean
> 8.2.0 or 8.3.0, 

Yes, I'm sorry.  I do mean 8.2.0 and 8.3.0.

> look in the directories on cdimage.debian.org for the 
> signed checksums alongside the images:

I'm very grateful for everything the dds do, honestly.  But please, now that 
you help the blind a little, could you not start to remember the partially 
sighted?

 > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware
>/archive/8.2.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.2.0 in the archive)
>  
> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware
>/8.3.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.3.0, the current stable release)

This information is not available on the website.  It is gold-dust.  The 
website has a hyperlink that says "AMD64"
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

<rant>
Yes, it says that the check-sums are available.  It says that they are in the 
same directories.  It doesn't say where and what those directories are.  It 
just has flipping hyperlinks that don't go to the directories, which would be 
fine, they just go straight into downloading. 

So to find the directory one has to go into the raw HTML.  But I have great 
difficulty reading raw HTML.  I have great difficulty finding the place on 
the page.  Letters dance and lines merge.  I haven't been able to read even 
large print books for ten or fifteen years.  

And the lines I want are not even at the beginning or the end.  So this time I 
googled it, in the hope of being taken straight to the directory.  And found 
an email from you, presumably in fact out-dated, saying that the check sums 
for the firmware isos had not yet been put up.  So I gave up.

I just don't understand why the dds have decided to make it so difficult to 
get the check-sums, when check-sums are so important.  There are so many ways 
that they could be made available.  
</rant>
You have just made them available to me.  That is just fantastic!  I can now 
at least be sure that my iso is not corrupted.

So thank you very, very much Steve.  But could you perhaps persuade your 
colleagues to make them readily available via the website?

>
> and there are signed checksum files for *all* the images we publish.

For those who can see well.

>
> >I have been installing Debian for years on a good many different computers
> > of different ages.  I have NEVER had problems like this.  I expect a
> > basic Debian installation to take half an hour, not days.
>
> Ouch. :-(
>
> >One of the tech help chaps, at the shop from which I bought the computer,
> >suggested forgetting about gpt and sticking with Legacy, and looking at
> > the Windows settings in the BIOS, which he though might be interfering. 
> > As I said, I am going to have a night's sleep first.  I didn't get much
> > last night because I was battling with this.   FWIW, Ubuntu insisted on
> > installing with Legacy partitions, not gpt.
> >
> >I had not got the motherboard manual and did not know what the motherboard
> >was, so couldn't download the manual.  I have now asked the shop what it
> > is, and downloaded the manual.
>
> Are you trying to dual-boot with Windows, or replace the Windows
> setup?

No.  It has no Windows on it.  And now I have the manual, I see that if the 
BIOS is at its defaults, the BIOS is fine, but from what the tech support 
chap said, I suspect that settings have been changed by Novatech, so that is 
what I shall look at next.  I did look before, but without the manual I was a 
bit at sea.

> If you're talking about GPT, you're looking at a UEFI/legacy 
> BIOS choice. There *are* machines/motherboards which come stupidly
> configured out of the box to boot removable media in one mode
> (e.g. UEFI) but to use the *other* mode (e.g. BIOS) for booting off
> hard disk. You then can end up with a system where the installer will
> appear to work flawlessly, but the newly-installed system will fail to
> boot.

That is clearly something I must look at.

> If you've found out the manufacturer/model for your motherboard,
> telling us what you have could be helpful here.

Yes, I have finally found out.  It's a Giga-Byte GA-H110M-S2H.

> I'm surprised to hear that Ubuntu worked but not Debian at this point
> - under the covers, the installers for both are remarkably similar...

Ditto.  My images may be faulty.  But we've been there already.  I did 
re-download etc.

Thanks, Steve.
Lisi

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#166108

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016, at 07:21, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> Yes, I have finally found out.  It's a Giga-Byte GA-H110M-S2H.

Oho, that tells me a lot.

First, it tells me your specific motherboard and processor won't work
well (as in it will be quite crash-prone) *unless* you updated its
"BIOS" (really, UEFI) since about a week ago.  Did you?

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5606#bios

Second, it tells me you have a 6th gen Intel Core processor (aka Intel
"Skylake"), which, on top of requiring a very recent BIOS to be stable,
also wants a Linux kernel with some very recent fixes...  fixes that
even the very latest Debian installer kernel is unlikely to have *yet*.
The Ubuntu installer has a different kernel than Debian's, so it will
behave differently (and from your report, it does *much* better on Intel
Skylake-based systems right now).

BTW, Gigabye is shipping outdated components on that brand new BIOS
update for your motherboard (at least the processor microcode is far
older than it should be), which isn't a good sign at all.  Still, it
should be much better than the defective Intel firmware that is inside
their next-to-latest BIOS for that motherboard, so, please update your
BIOS if you didn't do that already.

Do be careful while updating your BIOS, it is the kind of thing you need
to get right at the first time. If you don't have a second computer,
print out the update instructions and also the "recovery instructions"
for when things go wrong. Have whatever is necessary for the recovery
procedure prepared ahead of time.  Read everything carefully.  Find a
way to minimize the risk of a power loss during the BIOS update.

And get used to it: you bought an Intel Skykale system, you also bought
the need for periodic BIOS updates for a while yet... even if it wasn't
written like that in the tin ;-)

Anyway, after the BIOS update, please give another try at the installer.
 Hopefully, it will work, but given the outdated microcode inside that
latest BIOS update, it might not fix everything that it could/should.

If the installer still hangs even after the BIOS update, please try to
add the boot parameter: "intel_idle.max_cstate=7".  If that doesn't
work, try it with "intel_idle.max_cstate=0", which will switch the
kernel to a safer -- but a lot less efficient -- idle driver
("acpi_idle").  When using "acpi_idle", the BIOS settings matter a lot
more, so you may try changing them too (set the maximum C state in BIOS
to 7 as well, or maybe to 3 if that doesn't work).

Boot parameters for the installer: 
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s03.html.en
(it is the same for amd64).

Also, try both text mode and graphical mode for the installer, much of
the kernel issues with Skylake are related to the Intel GPU, so which
mode you use might make a difference.

Last point: some people experiencing Skylake hangs had to RMA their
Intel processor, and it helped some while others did not report any
change.  But these were "K" processors -- the ones for overclocking. I
found no reports of RMAs helping users of non-K processors.  I don't
think it is your case anyway, because your system behaved much better
under Ubuntu, while those who had broken processors had the same hang
issues on every O.S they tried, even Windows 10.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org>

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#166109

On Wednesday 30 March 2016 17:42:14 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016, at 07:21, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > Yes, I have finally found out.  It's a Giga-Byte GA-H110M-S2H.
>
> Oho, that tells me a lot.

Thank you so much, Henrique.  I am about to go away and am a bit rushed, so 
what you have told me is that I had better not touch it until I get back!  
And perhaps should consider Scratch.  Or hold my nose and stay on Ubuntu for 
a bit.  I'll deal with it next week and report back.  


> First, it tells me your specific motherboard and processor won't work
> well (as in it will be quite crash-prone) *unless* you updated its
> "BIOS" (really, UEFI) since about a week ago.  Did you?
>
> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5606#bios

No, I haven't updated it.  And I am not even going to try and update the BIOS 
while I am feeling rushed and stressed and am very short of time.

> Second, it tells me you have a 6th gen Intel Core processor (aka Intel
> "Skylake"), which, on top of requiring a very recent BIOS to be stable,
> also wants a Linux kernel with some very recent fixes...  fixes that
> even the very latest Debian installer kernel is unlikely to have *yet*.
> The Ubuntu installer has a different kernel than Debian's, so it will
> behave differently (and from your report, it does *much* better on Intel
> Skylake-based systems right now).

If I manage to get it on at all, the first thing I shall have to do is 
obviously install a backports kernel!
>
> BTW, Gigabye is shipping outdated components on that brand new BIOS
> update for your motherboard (at least the processor microcode is far
> older than it should be), which isn't a good sign at all.  Still, it
> should be much better than the defective Intel firmware that is inside
> their next-to-latest BIOS for that motherboard, so, please update your
> BIOS if you didn't do that already.
>
> Do be careful while updating your BIOS, it is the kind of thing you need
> to get right at the first time. If you don't have a second computer,
> print out the update instructions and also the "recovery instructions"
> for when things go wrong. Have whatever is necessary for the recovery
> procedure prepared ahead of time.  Read everything carefully.  Find a
> way to minimize the risk of a power loss during the BIOS update.
>
> And get used to it: you bought an Intel Skykale system, you also bought
> the need for periodic BIOS updates for a while yet... even if it wasn't
> written like that in the tin ;-)
>
> Anyway, after the BIOS update, please give another try at the installer.
>  Hopefully, it will work, but given the outdated microcode inside that
> latest BIOS update, it might not fix everything that it could/should.
>
> If the installer still hangs even after the BIOS update, please try to
> add the boot parameter: "intel_idle.max_cstate=7".  If that doesn't
> work, try it with "intel_idle.max_cstate=0", which will switch the
> kernel to a safer -- but a lot less efficient -- idle driver
> ("acpi_idle").  When using "acpi_idle", the BIOS settings matter a lot
> more, so you may try changing them too (set the maximum C state in BIOS
> to 7 as well, or maybe to 3 if that doesn't work).
>
> Boot parameters for the installer:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s03.html.en
> (it is the same for amd64).
>
> Also, try both text mode and graphical mode for the installer, much of
> the kernel issues with Skylake are related to the Intel GPU, so which
> mode you use might make a difference.
>
> Last point: some people experiencing Skylake hangs had to RMA their
> Intel processor, and it helped some while others did not report any
> change.  But these were "K" processors -- the ones for overclocking. I
> found no reports of RMAs helping users of non-K processors.  I don't
> think it is your case anyway, because your system behaved much better
> under Ubuntu, while those who had broken processors had the same hang
> issues on every O.S they tried, even Windows 10.

:-(

Thank you so much, Henry.  I'll report back if I am still upright and sane 
after all this!!

Lisi

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#166112 — ERRATUM Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie

On Wednesday 30 March 2016 18:15:30 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 30 March 2016 17:42:14 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016, at 07:21, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > Yes, I have finally found out.  It's a Giga-Byte GA-H110M-S2H.
> >
> > Oho, that tells me a lot.
>
> Thank you so much, Henrique.  I am about to go away and am a bit rushed, so
> what you have told me is that I had better not touch it until I get back!
> And perhaps should consider Scratch.

<Hangs head in shame.>  Stretch. <stands in corner wearing dunce's cap>

Blame senility and its accompanying aphasia. :-(

Lisi

> Or hold my nose and stay on Ubuntu 
> for a bit.  I'll deal with it next week and report back.
>
> > First, it tells me your specific motherboard and processor won't work
> > well (as in it will be quite crash-prone) *unless* you updated its
> > "BIOS" (really, UEFI) since about a week ago.  Did you?
> >
> > http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5606#bios
>
> No, I haven't updated it.  And I am not even going to try and update the
> BIOS while I am feeling rushed and stressed and am very short of time.
>
> > Second, it tells me you have a 6th gen Intel Core processor (aka Intel
> > "Skylake"), which, on top of requiring a very recent BIOS to be stable,
> > also wants a Linux kernel with some very recent fixes...  fixes that
> > even the very latest Debian installer kernel is unlikely to have *yet*.
> > The Ubuntu installer has a different kernel than Debian's, so it will
> > behave differently (and from your report, it does *much* better on Intel
> > Skylake-based systems right now).
>
> If I manage to get it on at all, the first thing I shall have to do is
> obviously install a backports kernel!
>
> > BTW, Gigabye is shipping outdated components on that brand new BIOS
> > update for your motherboard (at least the processor microcode is far
> > older than it should be), which isn't a good sign at all.  Still, it
> > should be much better than the defective Intel firmware that is inside
> > their next-to-latest BIOS for that motherboard, so, please update your
> > BIOS if you didn't do that already.
> >
> > Do be careful while updating your BIOS, it is the kind of thing you need
> > to get right at the first time. If you don't have a second computer,
> > print out the update instructions and also the "recovery instructions"
> > for when things go wrong. Have whatever is necessary for the recovery
> > procedure prepared ahead of time.  Read everything carefully.  Find a
> > way to minimize the risk of a power loss during the BIOS update.
> >
> > And get used to it: you bought an Intel Skykale system, you also bought
> > the need for periodic BIOS updates for a while yet... even if it wasn't
> > written like that in the tin ;-)
> >
> > Anyway, after the BIOS update, please give another try at the installer.
> >  Hopefully, it will work, but given the outdated microcode inside that
> > latest BIOS update, it might not fix everything that it could/should.
> >
> > If the installer still hangs even after the BIOS update, please try to
> > add the boot parameter: "intel_idle.max_cstate=7".  If that doesn't
> > work, try it with "intel_idle.max_cstate=0", which will switch the
> > kernel to a safer -- but a lot less efficient -- idle driver
> > ("acpi_idle").  When using "acpi_idle", the BIOS settings matter a lot
> > more, so you may try changing them too (set the maximum C state in BIOS
> > to 7 as well, or maybe to 3 if that doesn't work).
> >
> > Boot parameters for the installer:
> > https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s03.html.en
> > (it is the same for amd64).
> >
> > Also, try both text mode and graphical mode for the installer, much of
> > the kernel issues with Skylake are related to the Intel GPU, so which
> > mode you use might make a difference.
> >
> > Last point: some people experiencing Skylake hangs had to RMA their
> > Intel processor, and it helped some while others did not report any
> > change.  But these were "K" processors -- the ones for overclocking. I
> > found no reports of RMAs helping users of non-K processors.  I don't
> > think it is your case anyway, because your system behaved much better
> > under Ubuntu, while those who had broken processors had the same hang
> > issues on every O.S they tried, even Windows 10.
> >
> :-(
>
> Thank you so much, Henry.  I'll report back if I am still upright and sane
> after all this!!
>
> Lisi

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#166133

Lisi Reisz wrote:
>On Tuesday 29 March 2016 23:55:33 Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> Lisi Reisz wrote:
>> >No help - but "Join the club".  Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
>> >Mine was a new computer and, after over a day of tearing my hair out,
>> > trying again, trying differently,and re-downloading etc. etc., I
>> > installed Ubuntu MATE (how are the mighty fallen!!),  just to make sure
>> > that something would install.  It did.  I am about to try a few more
>> > methods of getting Jessie on. But I want a night's sleep first!  (This is
>> > a companion saga to the one I have already reported, not the same one). 
>> > It is not helped by the fact that check sums are not available for the
>> > 8.02 or 8.03 firmware net-install isos. And 8.0.0 (for which I have got
>> > the check sums) has not got the necessary drivers.
>>
>> We've never made 8.02 or 8.03 firmware netinstall images. If you mean
>> 8.2.0 or 8.3.0, 
>
>Yes, I'm sorry.  I do mean 8.2.0 and 8.3.0.

OK, cool. :-)

>> look in the directories on cdimage.debian.org for the 
>> signed checksums alongside the images:
>
>I'm very grateful for everything the dds do, honestly.  But please, now that 
>you help the blind a little, could you not start to remember the partially 
>sighted?
>
> > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware
>>/archive/8.2.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.2.0 in the archive)
>>  
>> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware
>>/8.3.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.3.0, the current stable release)
>
>This information is not available on the website.  It is gold-dust.  The 
>website has a hyperlink that says "AMD64"
>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/
>
><rant>
>Yes, it says that the check-sums are available.  It says that they are in the 
>same directories.  It doesn't say where and what those directories are.  It 
>just has flipping hyperlinks that don't go to the directories, which would be 
>fine, they just go straight into downloading. 
>
>So to find the directory one has to go into the raw HTML.  But I have great 
>difficulty reading raw HTML.  I have great difficulty finding the place on 
>the page.  Letters dance and lines merge.  I haven't been able to read even 
>large print books for ten or fifteen years.  

Sorry to hear that. :-(

>And the lines I want are not even at the beginning or the end.  So this time I 
>googled it, in the hope of being taken straight to the directory.  And found 
>an email from you, presumably in fact out-dated, saying that the check sums 
>for the firmware isos had not yet been put up.  So I gave up.
>
>I just don't understand why the dds have decided to make it so difficult to 
>get the check-sums, when check-sums are so important.  There are so many ways 
>that they could be made available.  
></rant>

Agreed.

>You have just made them available to me.  That is just fantastic!  I can now 
>at least be sure that my iso is not corrupted.
>
>So thank you very, very much Steve.  But could you perhaps persuade your 
>colleagues to make them readily available via the website?

Argh, yes. I've just filed a bug (http://bugs.debian.org/819664) to
try and get some of this mess cleared up. We have far too many web
pages with different details on them for things like downloads, and
it's a confusing mess. :-(

>> >I had not got the motherboard manual and did not know what the motherboard
>> >was, so couldn't download the manual.  I have now asked the shop what it
>> > is, and downloaded the manual.
>>
>> Are you trying to dual-boot with Windows, or replace the Windows
>> setup?
>
>No.  It has no Windows on it.  And now I have the manual, I see that if the 
>BIOS is at its defaults, the BIOS is fine, but from what the tech support 
>chap said, I suspect that settings have been changed by Novatech, so that is 
>what I shall look at next.  I did look before, but without the manual I was a 
>bit at sea.

Yup, of course! I can see that based on your information "Giga-Byte
GA-H110M-S2H" Henrique has provided more help and it may be
bleeding-ege hardware issues.  Let's see how that goes when you get
back from your trip, I guess. :-)

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out
 whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast."
 Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html

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#166539

On Thursday 31 March 2016 18:24:35 Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Yup, of course! I can see that based on your information "Giga-Byte
> GA-H110M-S2H" Henrique has provided more help and it may be
> bleeding-ege hardware issues.  Let's see how that goes when you get
> back from your trip, I guess. :-)

Next instalment.  Apart from practically causing me to stop breathing the 
re-flash was so easy I couldn't quite believe it.  I had a look at the BIOS, 
and left the optimised defaults I had been told to ask for alone.

(tl:dr - or too incoherent - go to end)
Then I started the installation.  It went fine up to partitioning.  I could 
find no way of persuading it to let me have a gpt scheme instead of what was 
there - i.e. totally reformat the drive.  I chickened out and ran back to 
Knoppix and Gparted.  Simply wiped it clean and reset it to gpt instead of 
dos.  Then back to the installer.  Apart form very slight hiccups due to my 
never having done a gpt partition scheme before all went swimmingly and the 
installation was easy and incident free.

But once I started using it, life got harder.  I  installed Firefox (Debian 
version) and Google Chrome, went onto YouTube and started to try and turn 
sound on.  Everything froze.  Managed finally to persuade the keyboard to let 
me into tty4.  Shut down everything that mentioned google and suddenly found 
myself at the GUI log-in screen.  I logged in, tried to shut down, went in 
various circles (GUI/login screen/tty), finally managed to shut down.  When I 
started again the ps2 mouse won't work.  Nor will another ps2 mouse.  A USB 
mouse will work, but this is a new motherboard. :-(

My attempts to get sound working also have bourne no fruit.  *everything* in 
alsamixer is at maximum.  I have tried setting alsamixer to both the sound 
cards it offers.  But pavucontrol stubbornly continues to insist on using 
HDMI.  My husband asked why I didn't just use HDMI.  Answer:  I haven't got 
an HDMI monitor.  :-(

So:  my mouse doesn't work, although it had been working initially, the sound 
doesn't work.  But Debian installed this time.  It would be nice if it were 
usable!!

Lisi

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#166540

On Friday 08 April 2016 17:50:13 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Thursday 31 March 2016 18:24:35 Steve McIntyre wrote:

> So:  my mouse doesn't work, although it had been working initially, the
> sound doesn't work.  But Debian installed this time.  It would be nice if
> it were usable!!

Having re-read Henrique's email I think the next thing to do tomorrow is try 
another kernel.

Lisi

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#166543 — SOLVED - I hope! was: Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie

On Friday 08 April 2016 18:03:00 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 08 April 2016 17:50:13 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Thursday 31 March 2016 18:24:35 Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >
> > So:  my mouse doesn't work, although it had been working initially, the
> > sound doesn't work.  But Debian installed this time.  It would be nice if
> > it were usable!!
>
> Having re-read Henrique's email I think the next thing to do tomorrow is
> try another kernel.
>
> Lisi

Right.  Have installed 4.4.6.  I appear to have a working computer!!!!  

Thanks to all, especially Steve and Henrique.  I'll flash the BIOS when I see 
another version of the firmware available, but meanwhile all seems great - 
though I obviously don't know yet how stable.  Even sound is now working!!

The solution in this case:
Skylake i5 with Giga-Byte GA-H110M-S2H, DDR4 version.
re-flash BIOS
Install backported kernel.

Now running Jessie with TDE 14.0.3.

If I could do so without waking my husband (it is 3:20 a.m. in my timezone) 
and upsetting my hips I would dance a jig. :-))

Lisi

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#166548 — Re: SOLVED - I hope! was: Re: Repeated failure of install of Jessie

Lisi Reisz wrote:
>
>Right.  Have installed 4.4.6.  I appear to have a working computer!!!!  
>
>Thanks to all, especially Steve and Henrique.  I'll flash the BIOS when I see 
>another version of the firmware available, but meanwhile all seems great - 
>though I obviously don't know yet how stable.  Even sound is now working!!
>
>The solution in this case:
>Skylake i5 with Giga-Byte GA-H110M-S2H, DDR4 version.
>re-flash BIOS
>Install backported kernel.
>
>Now running Jessie with TDE 14.0.3.
>
>If I could do so without waking my husband (it is 3:20 a.m. in my timezone) 
>and upsetting my hips I would dance a jig. :-))

Woo! \o/

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out
 whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast."
 Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html

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#166184

Lisi Reisz wrote:
>On Tuesday 29 March 2016 23:55:33 Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> look in the directories on cdimage.debian.org for the 
>> signed checksums alongside the images:
>
>I'm very grateful for everything the dds do, honestly.  But please, now that 
>you help the blind a little, could you not start to remember the partially 
>sighted?
>
> > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware
>>/archive/8.2.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.2.0 in the archive)
>>  
>> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware
>>/8.3.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.3.0, the current stable release)
>
>This information is not available on the website.  It is gold-dust.  The 
>website has a hyperlink that says "AMD64"
>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/
>
><rant>
>Yes, it says that the check-sums are available.  It says that they are in the 
>same directories.  It doesn't say where and what those directories are.  It 
>just has flipping hyperlinks that don't go to the directories, which would be 
>fine, they just go straight into downloading. 

Yes, it does annoy me that the link doesn't warn you of that.
I don't know how you browse so this might not help you, but here
is what I do:

After navigating to the page with the ISO link (either from Debian
home page or directly by googling something like   debian installer   )
I take care not to left-click on the link, but instead right-click and
select Copy Link Location.
Then I type "wget " in an xterm and paste the link after it. That
downloads the ISO file.

I then open a blank browser page and paste the same link into the
address bar. Without pressing Return, I then erase the filename back
as far as the last directory slash. Now pressing Return takes you to
the directory containing the ISO file and, of course, all the SHA stuff.
Right-click on the SHA512SUMS and paste that as you did the ISO. Ditto
the SHA512SUMS.sign.

To validate, I type   sha512sum * > /tmp/sums   (in the directory I
wget'd into), then
diff -u SHA512SUMS /tmp/sums | less -S
and you should see no lines beginning with +, but only - or blank.
Then I   gpg2 --verify SHA512SUMS.sign   which gives a fingerprint
that occur somewhere on the page https://www.debian.org/CD/verify

So the method all depends on right-clicking giving you that menu,
which I hope it does.

Cheers,
David.

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#166311

On Saturday 02 April 2016 05:11:43 David Wright wrote:
> Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >On Tuesday 29 March 2016 23:55:33 Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >> look in the directories on cdimage.debian.org for the
> >> signed checksums alongside the images:
> >
> >I'm very grateful for everything the dds do, honestly.  But please, now
> > that you help the blind a little, could you not start to remember the
> > partially sighted?
> >
> > > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firm
> > >ware
> >>
> >>/archive/8.2.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.2.0 in the archive)
> >>
> >> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmw
> >>are /8.3.0/amd64/iso-cd/ (8.3.0, the current stable release)
> >
> >This information is not available on the website.  It is gold-dust.  The
> >website has a hyperlink that says "AMD64"
> >https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/
> >
> ><rant>
> >Yes, it says that the check-sums are available.  It says that they are in
> > the same directories.  It doesn't say where and what those directories
> > are.  It just has flipping hyperlinks that don't go to the directories,
> > which would be fine, they just go straight into downloading.
>
> Yes, it does annoy me that the link doesn't warn you of that.
> I don't know how you browse so this might not help you, but here
> is what I do:
>
> After navigating to the page with the ISO link (either from Debian
> home page or directly by googling something like   debian installer   )
> I take care not to left-click on the link, but instead right-click and
> select Copy Link Location.

That appeared to do nothing, so I tried everything else offered.  The 
three "Open link <something-or-other>" all produced 404s, "Save link as" 
downloaded, "Inspect" opened the relevant section of HTML, with the relevant 
line highlighted.  Bingo!  Success!  Thank you, David.  That's a big help.

But  a hyperlink to the checksums or a clear offering on the website would be 
still better.  I'm all right now, Jack, but what about everybody else?

Lisi

> Then I type "wget " in an xterm and paste the link after it. That
> downloads the ISO file.
>
> I then open a blank browser page and paste the same link into the
> address bar. Without pressing Return, I then erase the filename back
> as far as the last directory slash. Now pressing Return takes you to
> the directory containing the ISO file and, of course, all the SHA stuff.
> Right-click on the SHA512SUMS and paste that as you did the ISO. Ditto
> the SHA512SUMS.sign.
>
> To validate, I type   sha512sum * > /tmp/sums   (in the directory I
> wget'd into), then
> diff -u SHA512SUMS /tmp/sums | less -S
> and you should see no lines beginning with +, but only - or blank.
> Then I   gpg2 --verify SHA512SUMS.sign   which gives a fingerprint
> that occur somewhere on the page https://www.debian.org/CD/verify
>
> So the method all depends on right-clicking giving you that menu,
> which I hope it does.
>
> Cheers,
> David.

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#166316

On Sun 03 Apr 2016 at 23:09:14 (+0100), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Saturday 02 April 2016 05:11:43 David Wright wrote:
> > Yes, it does annoy me that the link doesn't warn you of that.
> > I don't know how you browse so this might not help you, but here
> > is what I do:
> >
> > After navigating to the page with the ISO link (either from Debian
> > home page or directly by googling something like   debian installer   )
> > I take care not to left-click on the link, but instead right-click and
> > select Copy Link Location.
> 
> That appeared to do nothing,

Yes, cut/copy-and-paste can be a bit problematical at times, so I'll
elaborate for the benefit of other possible readers.

At the time you select Copy Link Location, yes, you see nothing. But
the link text goes into the cut buffer. However, I have no idea
exactly _which_ buffer, so you may have to try different paste
methods. I use the middle-click in xterm (always tricky on the laptop
as there's no middle button), but sometimes ^Y in emacs might be
required to get at the text.

What "should" always work (because you Copy Link Location in the
browser) is to open a new tab (^T), click in its address bar (ought
to be selected already) and type ^V (or use Paste in the menu).
Then, taking care not to press Return (which wouls start a download in
the browser), treble-click the address and paste that into your wget
command for the download; then go back to the address bar, press End
and then rub out the ISO filename to navigate to the directory.

> so I tried everything else offered.  The 
> three "Open link <something-or-other>" all produced 404s, "Save link as" 
> downloaded, "Inspect" opened the relevant section of HTML, with the relevant 
> line highlighted.  Bingo!  Success!  Thank you, David.  That's a big help.

That's good. I've never tried some of those right-click options, but
whatever works for you. I've given the instructions above just in case
they're useful for someone else.

Cheers,
David.

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#166081

On Tuesday 29 March 2016 21:08:19 Alan McConnell wrote:
> The DVD contained the first Jessie DVD, and, I'm guessing,
> the thumb device contained the rest.

It doesn't look like it.  It looks as though the USB key only has the first 
DVD on it.  To get all the DVDs you need to buy all the DVDs - but it is 
unlikely that you would need them.

Lisi

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#166082

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 11:13:54PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 March 2016 21:08:19 Alan McConnell wrote:
> > The DVD contained the first Jessie DVD, and, I'm guessing,
> > the thumb device contained the rest.
> 
> It doesn't look like it.  It looks as though the USB key only has the first 
> DVD on it.  To get all the DVDs you need to buy all the DVDs - but it is 
> unlikely that you would need them.
> 
> Lisi

The first DVD is possibly all you'll need to install a Debian system with GUI.

It's possible to write any Debian CD for 32/64 bit Intel and AMD machines to a USB stick
and boot from that if your machine will support it.

Jessie really isn't _that_ hard to install on most hardware: insert the DVD / USB stick
get into the computer setup to prioritise booting from it, then reboot and follow the 
prompts. It does take more work than a corresponding Windows install perhaps - but by
the time you've sought out device drivers for Windows, the Debian install is often easier :)

Persevere and all will be well, with luck :)

All the best,

AndyC

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#166084

alan@his.com wrote:
>Long before I joined this List, I purchased a DVD and a thumb device from
>LinuxCollections.  The DVD contained the first Jessie DVD, and, I'm guessing,
>the thumb device contained the rest.
>
>I kept the same partitions that I had had on my old squeezy install.
>the first was /boot, the fifth was /, the sixth was /usr, the seventh
>was /var, the eighth was swap, the ninth was /tmp and the tenth was
>/home.  The sizes I kept from  squeezy; all were overly generous(my HD
>is one TB.)
>
>I reformatted them all with ext4 at first, then later with
>ext3, which what my old system had.  [  Sorry for the vague terminology,
>I'm writing this on a loaner Windoze box many yards away from my
>own machine and documentation. ]

OK, that's understandable.

>The _many_ install attempts crashed at random points but after a while
>they congregated when I tried to choose a kernel.  After choosing a kernel
>one must then choose the associated drivers.

When exactly did the installer ask you to choose a kernel? Or do you
mean after the installation had finished and rebooted? I'd *guess* the
latter, but your later text doesn't tally with that.

>This crashed almost inevitably, although once I got through to stage
>where I received a black screen with the white text prompt 'grub>'.
>This was before the kernel was booted, and I have no clue how to use
>this, even if I once again get this far.

If you're at a grub menu, then hitting "e" should give you the option
to edit the selected boot option. I'd try doing that and remove the
"quiet" kernel argument as a start in the hope that you might get some
more useful diagnostics. I'm *guessing* where you've got to here,
though.

>I have tried choosing 'none' for a kernel.  But then one must choose an
>installer.  I've tried choosing grub, even tried using the ancient LILO.
>All produce red screens, indicating failures of one kind or other.

And this is totally confusing, I'm afraid. If you could retry the
installer and tell us exactly what the screen says when you choose
"none", that would be helpful.

>I have discovered the informative 'tty4' where the progress of the
>installation is more copiously displayed.

Yup, that's the syslog output. If you've got that far, you can use
tty2 or tty3 to start a shell and play with the system, or from the
installer menu you can even start a tiny built-in web server in the
installer environment so that you can grab logfiles from another
machine over the network.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out
 whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast."
 Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html

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#166086

On Tue 29 Mar 2016 at 16:08:19 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:

> Long before I joined this List, I purchased a DVD and a thumb device from
> LinuxCollections.  The DVD contained the first Jessie DVD, and, I'm guessing,
> the thumb device contained the rest.

You shouldn't have to guess; any OS should be capable of displaying its
contents.

> I kept the same partitions that I had had on my old squeezy install.
> the first was /boot, the fifth was /, the sixth was /usr, the seventh
> was /var, the eighth was swap, the ninth was /tmp and the tenth was
> /home.  The sizes I kept from  squeezy; all were overly generous(my HD
> is one TB.)

You haven't got a working installation so changing this strategy won't
do any harm.

Boot in expert mode and report on progress up to the partitioning stage.

Check on network connectivity with 'ping www.debian.org' from tty2. It
works?

> I reformatted them all with ext4 at first, then later with
> ext3, which what my old system had.  [  Sorry for the vague terminology,
> I'm writing this on a loaner Windoze box many yards away from my
> own machine and documentation. ]

Delete all the partitions you have made on the disk and make one 20GB
ext4 partition. Swap of 2GB is sufficient. How does that go?

Install the base system, set up a mirror and untick all the choices when
installing all the extra software.
 
> The _many_ install attempts crashed at random points but after a while
> they congregated when I tried to choose a kernel.  After choosing a kernel
> one must then choose the associated drivers.  This crashed almost inevitably,
> although once I got through to stage where I received a black screen with
> the white text prompt 'grub>'.  This was before the kernel was booted, and
> I have no clue how to use this, even if I once again get this far.

The install will choose a kernel for you; accept it and choose all
drivers for the initrd. All ok up to there?

> I have tried choosing 'none' for a kernel.  But then one must choose an
> installer.  I've tried choosing grub, even tried using the ancient LILO.
> All produce red screens, indicating failures of one kind or other.

Chose GRUB. Install it to the MBR of the disk (/dev/sda?). Does it
report success?
 
> I have discovered the informative 'tty4' where the progress of the installation
> is more copiously displayed.

If anything goes amiss you have that to look at. There is also the
command 'more /var/log/syslog' from tty2.

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#166095

On 03/29/2016 01:08 PM, Alan McConnell wrote:
> ... The _many_ install attempts crashed at random points ...
> And now I'm meandering, for I don't know what further information to give, that
> will help the members here to make further suggestions.  But I shall be grateful
> for any help I receive.

Back up your data (if you haven't already done so).


Get another working computer that you can use while installing Jessie. 
Download the Debian Installation Guide for your architecture and language:

     http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual


Then follow the guide, taking detailed notes as you go -- what step in 
the guide, what you did, what result you obtained, any error messages, 
etc..  If you run into problems, post your notes up to that point and 
people on this list should be able to explain what's going on and why, 
and help you succeed.


David

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