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computer cann't shut down

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  computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 13:50 +0100
    Re: computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 14:00 +0100
      Re: computer cann't shut down Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 09:50 +0100
        Re: computer cann't shut down Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-03-20 10:40 +0100
          Re: computer cann't shut down Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 11:00 +0100
    Re: computer cann't shut down Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2016-03-19 14:20 +0100
    Re: computer cann't shut down songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2016-03-19 14:30 +0100
      Re: computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 15:10 +0100
        Re: computer cann't shut down "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2016-03-19 15:40 +0100
          Re: computer cann't shut down songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2016-03-19 19:20 +0100
        Re: computer cann't shut down Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 09:50 +0100
    Re: computer cann't shut down Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 17:20 +0100
      Re: computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 03:50 +0100
        Re: computer cann't shut down Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 09:50 +0100
          Re: computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 13:50 +0100
    Re: computer cann't shut down David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-19 19:40 +0100
      Re: computer cann't shut down Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 00:40 +0100
        Re: computer cann't shut down Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 01:20 +0100
          Re: computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 03:50 +0100
            Re: computer cann't shut down Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 04:50 +0100
              Re: computer cann't shut down Jerome BENOIT <sphericaltriangle@rezozer.net> - 2016-03-20 05:30 +0100
                Re: computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 09:20 +0100
                Re: computer cann't shut down Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 09:50 +0100
                  Re: computer cann't shut down Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 05:40 +0100
              Re: computer cann't shut down メット <mett@pmars.jp> - 2016-03-20 05:50 +0100
                Re: computer cann't shut down lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 09:30 +0100
            Re: computer cann't shut down Jimmy Johnson <jimmyjhn@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 20:20 +0100
          Re: computer cann't shut down Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 09:40 +0100
    Re: computer cann't shut down Lotek <lotek07@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 19:10 +0100
      systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) chrisb@localhost.localdomain - 2016-03-23 10:10 +0100
        Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-23 14:10 +0100
          Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-03-23 14:40 +0100
            Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-23 16:20 +0100
              Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) chrisb@localhost.localdomain - 2016-03-28 10:20 +0200
                Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-28 18:00 +0200
                  Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 18:20 +0200
                    Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-28 19:20 +0200

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#165655

Hello Forum:

On 20/03/16 04:42, Michael Milliman wrote:
> 
> 
> On 03/19/2016 09:40 PM, lina wrote:
>> shutdown -h now
>> 
>> doesn't work. it still reboot.
>> 
> This sounds like an issue with the hardware or BIOS not with the
> Debian OS, or with the Desktop environment.  Though I have not had
> this problem, I have had several others related to
> shutdown/reboot/suspend/hibernate on various machines, but I know for
> a fact that all such problems have been with the hardware/BIOS, not
> the Debian software.  I don't know enough about the iMac to offer
> anything more.

Does recent iMac have a BIOS ?

Jerome

>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Saturday 19 March 2016 23:37:05 Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2016, David Christensen wrote:
>>>>> On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:
>>>>>> Every time since I installed the system,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I checked online and tried several methods but still don't
>>>>>> work.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.
>>>>> I'm having the same issue:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818311
>>>>> 
>>>>> So far, no progress in resolving it.
>>>> No problem here.  'shutdown -h now' (as root) works as it
>>>> should. Wheezy 64-bit, fully up-to-date; no desktop
>>>> environments installed, just Openbox window manager.  System
>>>> boots to terminal, login there, then startx. I like to keep
>>>> things simple.
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe, problem is related to a desktop environment.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>> No, I use a desktop, and have a desktop installed on several
>>> other computers I administer.  3 x Wheezy, 2 x Jessie.  TDE,
>>> variously 14.0.3 and 3.5.13.2. All shut down without a problem.
>>> 
>>> Lisi
>>> 
> 

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#165658

They have openFirmware. I will try it.

THanks,

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Jerome BENOIT
<sphericaltriangle@rezozer.net> wrote:
> Hello Forum:
>
> On 20/03/16 04:42, Michael Milliman wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 03/19/2016 09:40 PM, lina wrote:
>>> shutdown -h now
>>>
>>> doesn't work. it still reboot.
>>>
>> This sounds like an issue with the hardware or BIOS not with the
>> Debian OS, or with the Desktop environment.  Though I have not had
>> this problem, I have had several others related to
>> shutdown/reboot/suspend/hibernate on various machines, but I know for
>> a fact that all such problems have been with the hardware/BIOS, not
>> the Debian software.  I don't know enough about the iMac to offer
>> anything more.
>
> Does recent iMac have a BIOS ?
>
> Jerome
>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Saturday 19 March 2016 23:37:05 Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2016, David Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:
>>>>>>> Every time since I installed the system,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I checked online and tried several methods but still don't
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.
>>>>>> I'm having the same issue:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818311
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, no progress in resolving it.
>>>>> No problem here.  'shutdown -h now' (as root) works as it
>>>>> should. Wheezy 64-bit, fully up-to-date; no desktop
>>>>> environments installed, just Openbox window manager.  System
>>>>> boots to terminal, login there, then startx. I like to keep
>>>>> things simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe, problem is related to a desktop environment.
>>>>>
>>>>> B
>>>> No, I use a desktop, and have a desktop installed on several
>>>> other computers I administer.  3 x Wheezy, 2 x Jessie.  TDE,
>>>> variously 14.0.3 and 3.5.13.2. All shut down without a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Lisi
>>>>
>>
>

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#165665

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 05:28:55 +0100
Jerome BENOIT <sphericaltriangle@rezozer.net> wrote:

> Hello Forum:
> 
> On 20/03/16 04:42, Michael Milliman wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On 03/19/2016 09:40 PM, lina wrote:  
> >> shutdown -h now
> >> 
> >> doesn't work. it still reboot.
> >>   
> > This sounds like an issue with the hardware or BIOS not with the
> > Debian OS, or with the Desktop environment.  Though I have not had
> > this problem, I have had several others related to
> > shutdown/reboot/suspend/hibernate on various machines, but I know
> > for a fact that all such problems have been with the hardware/BIOS,
> > not the Debian software.  I don't know enough about the iMac to
> > offer anything more.  
> 
> Does recent iMac have a BIOS ?


What do you mean by this?

Of course Macs have *initialisation firmware* (about which I know
nothing) but not necessarily MBR BIOS as seen on PCs.

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#165745

On 03/20/2016 03:40 AM, Adam Wilson wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 05:28:55 +0100
> Jerome BENOIT <sphericaltriangle@rezozer.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello Forum:
>>
>> On 20/03/16 04:42, Michael Milliman wrote:
>>>
>>> On 03/19/2016 09:40 PM, lina wrote:
>>>> shutdown -h now
>>>>
>>>> doesn't work. it still reboot.
>>>>    
>>> This sounds like an issue with the hardware or BIOS not with the
>>> Debian OS, or with the Desktop environment.  Though I have not had
>>> this problem, I have had several others related to
>>> shutdown/reboot/suspend/hibernate on various machines, but I know
>>> for a fact that all such problems have been with the hardware/BIOS,
>>> not the Debian software.  I don't know enough about the iMac to
>>> offer anything more.
>> Does recent iMac have a BIOS ?
>
> What do you mean by this?
>
> Of course Macs have *initialisation firmware* (about which I know
> nothing) but not necessarily MBR BIOS as seen on PCs.
And indeed, I also know little or nothing about iMacs, and so BIOS may 
well be the wrong term, but there must be some sort of firmware for 
booting and handling low-level stuff.  Nevertheless, should Macs not 
handle the low level stuff the way a PC BIOS does, then my bet is on 
some sort of hardware problem.

-- 
Mike

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#165656

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi,
Did u try the P switch?

shutdown -hP now

Hth

On 2016年3月20日 12:42:27 JST, Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>On 03/19/2016 09:40 PM, lina wrote:
>> shutdown -h now
>>
>> doesn't work. it still reboot.
>>
>This sounds like an issue with the hardware or BIOS not with the Debian
>
>OS, or with the Desktop environment.  Though I have not had this
>problem, I have had several others related to
>shutdown/reboot/suspend/hibernate on various machines, but I know for a
>
>fact that all such problems have been with the hardware/BIOS, not the
>Debian software.  I don't know enough about the iMac to offer anything
>more.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>> On Saturday 19 March 2016 23:37:05 Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2016, David Christensen wrote:
>>>>> On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:
>>>>>> Every time since I installed the system,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I checked online and tried several methods but still don't work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.
>>>>> I'm having the same issue:
>>>>>
>>>>>       https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818311
>>>>>
>>>>> So far, no progress in resolving it.
>>>> No problem here.  'shutdown -h now' (as root) works as it should.
>>>> Wheezy 64-bit, fully up-to-date; no desktop environments installed,
>just
>>>> Openbox window manager.  System boots to terminal, login there,
>then
>>>> startx. I like to keep things simple.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe, problem is related to a desktop environment.
>>>>
>>>> B
>>> No, I use a desktop, and have a desktop installed on several other
>computers I
>>> administer.  3 x Wheezy, 2 x Jessie.  TDE, variously 14.0.3 and
>3.5.13.2.
>>> All shut down without a problem.
>>>
>>> Lisi
>>>
>
>--
>Mike
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#165660

I tried shutdown -hP now

not work.

As I mentioned in another thread. This is a new iMac, I have installed
debian but still keep the Mac OS.

There is no problem to shut it down when I was in Mac OS.

But in debian, no way I can really shut down except switching off the power.

I tried to enter the BIOS, but the CMD-OPT-O-F doesn't work. will do a
further search and thanks again for suggestions.

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 12:24 PM, メット <mett@pmars.jp> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hi,
> Did u try the P switch?
>
> shutdown -hP now
>
> Hth
>
> On 2016年3月20日 12:42:27 JST, Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>On 03/19/2016 09:40 PM, lina wrote:
>>> shutdown -h now
>>>
>>> doesn't work. it still reboot.
>>>
>>This sounds like an issue with the hardware or BIOS not with the Debian
>>
>>OS, or with the Desktop environment.  Though I have not had this
>>problem, I have had several others related to
>>shutdown/reboot/suspend/hibernate on various machines, but I know for a
>>
>>fact that all such problems have been with the hardware/BIOS, not the
>>Debian software.  I don't know enough about the iMac to offer anything
>>more.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>>> On Saturday 19 March 2016 23:37:05 Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2016, David Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:
>>>>>>> Every time since I installed the system,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I checked online and tried several methods but still don't work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.
>>>>>> I'm having the same issue:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818311
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, no progress in resolving it.
>>>>> No problem here.  'shutdown -h now' (as root) works as it should.
>>>>> Wheezy 64-bit, fully up-to-date; no desktop environments installed,
>>just
>>>>> Openbox window manager.  System boots to terminal, login there,
>>then
>>>>> startx. I like to keep things simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe, problem is related to a desktop environment.
>>>>>
>>>>> B
>>>> No, I use a desktop, and have a desktop installed on several other
>>computers I
>>>> administer.  3 x Wheezy, 2 x Jessie.  TDE, variously 14.0.3 and
>>3.5.13.2.
>>>> All shut down without a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Lisi
>>>>
>>
>>--
>>Mike
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> =Y/rc
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

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#165788

On 03/19/2016 07:40 PM, lina wrote:
> shutdown -h now
>
> doesn't work. it still reboot.

Lina is it rebooting to grub or the linux system you are trying to shutdown?
-- 
Debian Jessie - KDE 4.14.2  - EXT4 - AMD64 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

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#165663

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:16:38 +0000
Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday 19 March 2016 23:37:05 Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 19 Mar 2016, David Christensen wrote:  
> > > On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:  
> > > > Every time since I installed the system,
> > > >
> > > > every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
> > > >
> > > > I checked online and tried several methods but still don't work.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.  
> > >
> > > I'm having the same issue:
> > >
> > >      https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818311
> > >
> > > So far, no progress in resolving it.  
> >
> > No problem here.  'shutdown -h now' (as root) works as it should.
> > Wheezy 64-bit, fully up-to-date; no desktop environments installed,
> > just Openbox window manager.  System boots to terminal, login
> > there, then startx. I like to keep things simple.
> >
> > Maybe, problem is related to a desktop environment.
> >
> > B  
> 
> No, I use a desktop, and have a desktop installed on several other
> computers I administer.  3 x Wheezy, 2 x Jessie.  TDE, variously
> 14.0.3 and 3.5.13.2. All shut down without a problem. 

I can concur. I run one Stretch machine (an ASUS N43SL) with MATE and
one Jessie machine (an ASUS Zenbook UX51vz) with MATE. Both shut down
perfectly.

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#165785

On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:
> Every time since I installed the system,
>
> every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
>
> I checked online and tried several methods but still don't work.
>
> Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.
>
> Thanks,

The problem might be with systemd.  Check the link 
"/lib/systemd/system/@ctrl-alt-del.target".  If it points to 
"reboot.target", copy the "@ctrl-alt-del.target" link to 
"/etc/systemd/system".  Then point the new link to 
"/lib/systemd/system/halt.target".

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#165859 — systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 10:44:24AM -0700, Lotek wrote:
> On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:
> >Every time since I installed the system,
> >
> >every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
> >
> >I checked online and tried several methods but still don't work.
> >
> >Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.
> >
> >Thanks,
> 
> The problem might be with systemd.  Check the link
> "/lib/systemd/system/@ctrl-alt-del.target".  If it points to
> "reboot.target", copy the "@ctrl-alt-del.target" link to
> "/etc/systemd/system".  Then point the new link to
> "/lib/systemd/system/halt.target".

*groan* so configuration is not confined to /etc/ anymore?
If everything works with systemd it's great, but otherwise 
it is a PITA esp, with Debian only changes where the normal
info doesn't apply. 

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

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#165869 — Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

On Wed 23 Mar 2016 at 21:53:15 (+1300), chrisb@localhost.localdomain wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 10:44:24AM -0700, Lotek wrote:
> > On 03/19/2016 05:40 AM, lina wrote:
> > >Every time since I installed the system,
> > >
> > >every time I tried Shut Down, it mainly restart again.
> > >
> > >I checked online and tried several methods but still don't work.
> > >
> > >Can anyone suggest me how to solve it.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > 
> > The problem might be with systemd.  Check the link
> > "/lib/systemd/system/@ctrl-alt-del.target".  If it points to
> > "reboot.target", copy the "@ctrl-alt-del.target" link to
> > "/etc/systemd/system".  Then point the new link to

      ↑↑↑

> > "/lib/systemd/system/halt.target".
> 
> *groan* so configuration is not confined to /etc/ anymore?

I don't follow youo.

> If everything works with systemd it's great, but otherwise 
> it is a PITA esp, with Debian only changes where the normal
> info doesn't apply. 

I quite like this scheme. When you have a configuration file
like /etc/foo.conf which contains

# bar="some value"

you have to take on trust, or check, that bar="some value" is
the default configured, or set elsewhere, for foo. OTOH, when
you copy /lib/systemd/system/... to /etc, you know you've got
hold of the default configuration. IOW, it's self-documenting.

Cheers,
David.

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#165871 — Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

David Wright writes:
> you have to take on trust, or check, that bar="some value" is
> the default configured, or set elsewhere, for foo. OTOH, when
> you copy /lib/systemd/system/... to /etc, you know you've got
> hold of the default configuration. IOW, it's self-documenting.

Why is that better than /etc/systemd/system/halt.target.orig or
/usr/share/doc/systemd/system/halt.target.default ?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#165875 — Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

On Wed 23 Mar 2016 at 08:16:18 (-0500), John Hasler wrote:
> David Wright writes:
> > you have to take on trust, or check, that bar="some value" is
> > the default configured, or set elsewhere, for foo. OTOH, when
> > you copy /lib/systemd/system/... to /etc, you know you've got
> > hold of the default configuration. IOW, it's self-documenting.
> 
> Why is that better than /etc/systemd/system/halt.target.orig

To answer that, I have to make some unwritten assumptions.

I assume you mean that there will be some files
/etc/systemd/system/foo.target
/etc/systemd/system/bar.target
supplied by Debian, and that when you make a change, you write a new
/etc/systemd/system/foo.target and retain the previous/Debian version
as /etc/systemd/system/foo.target.orig, ok?

Now, every time there's a security fix, you're going to be quizzed
over what to do about your modified configuration file because Debian
wants to overwrite your modified /etc/systemd/system/foo.target.

Or at some time in the future, you decide to revert to the Debian
version. You have to juggle the files /etc/systemd/system/foo.target
and /etc/systemd/system/foo.target.orig instead of just removing
the link /etc/systemd/system/foo.target -> /lib/systemd/system/foo.target

> or
> /usr/share/doc/systemd/system/halt.target.default ?

I wrote "you know you've got hold of the default configuration".
You don't *know* that /usr/share/doc/systemd/system/foo.target.default
is the default configuration; foo never consults it. To *know* whether
it has the same contents, you have to
cmp /usr/share/doc/systemd/system/foo.target.default /lib/systemd/system/foo.target

To revert your change back to the Debian version, it would be foolish
to blindly copy /usr/share/doc/systemd/system/foo.target.default
over /etc/systemd/system/foo.target. Would you accept a bug report
for foo where some of the configuration files being actively used were
merely copies of documentation files?

So I *like* the scheme where /lib/systemd/system/foo.target is the
self-documenting default because the system actually reads that file,
unless the sysadmin has put a link in /etc/systemd/system/foo.target
to override it.

In both your examples, consider how easy it is to tell what changes
you have made over time.

In the first case, you have to list all the /etc files that end with
(you hope) [-.]orig [-.]original [-.]old [-.]previous [-.]default etc.

In the second, you have to cmp all the files in /etc with the files
in /usr/share/doc/systemd/system/ remembering 1) to handle any
file-not-found errors, 2) that you hopefully checked that there *was*
a default in the documentation, and 3) if there wasn't, you wrote one,
but now where did you put it because you can't write to /usr/share/doc.

Cheers,
David.

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#166018 — Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:00:53AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> Now, every time there's a security fix, you're going to be quizzed
> over what to do about your modified configuration file because Debian
> wants to overwrite your modified /etc/systemd/system/foo.target.

Umm, guess what the normal current behaviour is.

> Or at some time in the future, you decide to revert to the Debian
> version. 

It's more often than not a particular feature or option you want to 
change, right? 

> You have to juggle the files /etc/systemd/system/foo.target
> and /etc/systemd/system/foo.target.orig instead of just removing
> the link /etc/systemd/system/foo.target -> /lib/systemd/system/foo.target
> 
> > or
> > /usr/share/doc/systemd/system/halt.target.default ?

You do comment your configuration files, right? 
Also do you delete old configuration options or comment out the line?

[snipped personal preference stuff]

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

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#166033 — Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

On Mon 28 Mar 2016 at 20:58:13 (+1300), chrisb@localhost.localdomain wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:00:53AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > Now, every time there's a security fix, you're going to be quizzed
> > over what to do about your modified configuration file because Debian
> > wants to overwrite your modified /etc/systemd/system/foo.target.
> 
> Umm, guess what the normal current behaviour is.
> 
> > Or at some time in the future, you decide to revert to the Debian
> > version. 
> 
> It's more often than not a particular feature or option you want to 
> change, right? 
> 
> > You have to juggle the files /etc/systemd/system/foo.target
> > and /etc/systemd/system/foo.target.orig instead of just removing
> > the link /etc/systemd/system/foo.target -> /lib/systemd/system/foo.target
> > 
> > > or
> > > /usr/share/doc/systemd/system/halt.target.default ?
> 
> You do comment your configuration files, right? 
> Also do you delete old configuration options or comment out the line?
> 
> [snipped personal preference stuff]

Snip away. I said in my posting
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg01032.html
that I was expressing my own views on the way links are placed in
/etc/systemd/ to override the defaults in /lib/systemd/.
John Hasler asked a specific question, albeit rather open-ended,
which I answered in specific terms, making necessary assumptions.
If you don't like the methods, don't use them. I'm not interested
in spending my time answering your easy-to-pose rhetorical questions
(two of which immediately follow a line that I didn't write) with
well-thought out replies.

After all, you haven't clarified your point in the same post.

Cheers,
David.

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#166034 — Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

On Monday 28 March 2016 16:37:16 David Wright wrote:
> I'm not interested
> in spending my time answering your easy-to-pose rhetorical questions

The whole point of rhetorical questions is that they are not in fact questions 
and do not require an answer, and more than any other type of statement.

Lisi

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#166036 — Re: systemd troubleshooting (was ... Re: computer cann't shut down)

On Mon 28 Mar 2016 at 17:02:46 (+0100), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Monday 28 March 2016 16:37:16 David Wright wrote:
> > I'm not interested
> > in spending my time answering your easy-to-pose rhetorical questions
> 
> The whole point of rhetorical questions is that they are not in fact questions 
> and do not require an answer, and more than any other type of statement.

Strictly that is true. However, questions on a mailing list like
this one are posed in different ways. Some are directly asking for
information, some are anything but, and there's a spectrum in
between. My saying "rhetorical question" is a shorthand way (two
words) of giving you an idea of where on that spectrum I think
questions lie.

>From the wiki: "Though a rhetorical question does not require a direct
answer, in many cases it may be *intended to start a discussion* or at
least draw an acknowledgement that the listener understands the
intended message." (my emphasis.)

Cheers,
David.

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