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Installing newer kernels

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  Installing newer kernels William Lee Valentine <vsc@lobo.net> - 2016-03-17 23:30 +0100
    Re: Installing newer kernels Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-18 00:00 +0100
    Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-18 03:30 +0100
      Re: Installing newer kernels Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2016-03-18 09:30 +0100
        Re: Installing newer kernels <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2016-03-18 09:50 +0100
        Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-18 18:30 +0100
          Re: Installing newer kernels Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2016-03-18 19:00 +0100
            Re: Installing newer kernels Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2016-03-18 19:10 +0100
              Re: Installing newer kernels Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-03-18 22:20 +0100
                Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-19 02:50 +0100
                  Re: Installing newer kernels Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-03-19 11:40 +0100
                  Re: Installing newer kernels chrisb@localhost.localdomain - 2016-03-23 09:00 +0100
                    Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-24 03:30 +0100
                      Re: Installing newer kernels John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-03-24 03:50 +0100
                        Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-24 04:10 +0100
                          Re: Installing newer kernels Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-03-24 09:40 +0100
                            Re: Installing newer kernels chrisb@localhost.localdomain - 2016-03-28 03:30 +0200
                          Re: Installing newer kernels <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2016-03-24 10:00 +0100
              Re: Installing newer kernels Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 08:50 +0100
            Re: Installing newer kernels Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-18 19:50 +0100
              Re: Installing newer kernels Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 10:20 +0100
          Re: Installing newer kernels David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-18 21:10 +0100
            Re: Installing newer kernels Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2016-03-19 02:40 +0100
            Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-19 02:40 +0100
      Re: Installing newer kernels David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-18 20:50 +0100
        Re: Installing newer kernels Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-18 21:10 +0100
          Re: Installing newer kernels David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-18 22:20 +0100
            Re: Installing newer kernels Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-19 00:00 +0100
              Re: Installing newer kernels David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-19 01:40 +0100
              Re: Installing newer kernels chrisb@localhost.localdomain - 2016-03-23 09:10 +0100
        Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-19 02:40 +0100
          Re: Installing newer kernels David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-19 03:10 +0100
            Re: Installing newer kernels David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-19 03:30 +0100
    Re: Installing newer kernels David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-18 21:20 +0100
      Re: Installing newer kernels Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 10:30 +0100
        Re: Installing newer kernels David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-21 03:10 +0100

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#165671

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On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:40:27 +0000
Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday 18 March 2016 17:55:50 Ric Moore wrote:
> > On 03/18/2016 01:22 PM, David Christensen wrote:  
> > > On 03/18/2016 01:21 AM, Sven Arvidsson wrote:  
> > >> On Thu, 2016-03-17 at 19:27 -0700, David Christensen wrote:  
> > >>> Debian 6 is obsolete. You're going to want to do a
> > >>> backup-wipe-install-restore cycle on both machines and move to
> > >>> Debian 7
> > >>> (or 8).  
> > >>
> > >> Why not do a dist-upgrade?  
> > >
> > > 1.  The few times I tried, I ran into problems.  When I was done,
> > > I had no little confidence in the results.  I was not alone in my
> > > experience; upgrade and post-upgrade issues are a common subject
> > > on this list.  
> >
> > I agree. The dist upgrade was problematic and I finally had to wipe
> > the root partition for a clean install. Thankfully, from my Caldera
> > days, I use /opt on a separate partition. There I have a $USER/
> > directory  where I keep all of the usual /home$USER/
> > sub-directories such as Music, Video, Downloads,
> > Documents, .mozilla , .thunderbird and the like. After re-install I
> > merely restore the links and I am cleanly back in business. My two
> > cents, Ric  
> 
> Why is /opt/$USER preferable to /home/$USER from this point of view??

Couldn't he have just as easily had /home on a separate partition?

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#165592

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 10:22:49 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> On 03/18/2016 01:21 AM, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> >On Thu, 2016-03-17 at 19:27 -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> >>Debian 6 is obsolete. You're going to want to do a
> >>backup-wipe-install-restore cycle on both machines and move to Debian
> >>7
> >>(or 8).
> >
> >Why not do a dist-upgrade?
> 
> 1.  The few times I tried, I ran into problems.  When I was done, I
> had no little confidence in the results.  I was not alone in my
> experience; upgrade and post-upgrade issues are a common subject on
> this list.

>From memory, a lot of the problems are caused by leaving backports and
non-Debian stuff to go through the upgrade process instead of cleaning
up the system first.

Another snag is often the DE stuff in home directories. Because most
people preserve their /home across even fresh installs, they're going
to hit that problem anyway, fresh or upgrade. And it can be tougher
still if you maintain two distributions sharing /home.

> I'm currently using manual procedures and home-grown scripts.  The
> next step up would be a deployment/ management automation tool such
> as Puppet:
> 
>     https://puppetlabs.com/

I can get a lot of hardware for $3000!

Cheers,
David.

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#165602

On 19/03/16 09:06, David Wright wrote:
>>> I'm currently using manual procedures and home-grown scripts.
>>> The next step up would be a deployment/ management automation
>>> tool such as Puppet:
>>> 
>>> https://puppetlabs.com/
> I can get a lot of hardware for $3000!

Puppet Enterprise is $3000. The normal version is Free (and in Debian).

Richard

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#165604

On 03/18/2016 01:06 PM, David Wright wrote:
> On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 10:22:49 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
>>      https://puppetlabs.com/
>
> I can get a lot of hardware for $3000!

That's why I would use the Debian version:

     2016-03-18 18:20:22 dpchrist@t7400 ~
     $ cat /etc/debian_version
     7.9

     2016-03-18 18:20:35 dpchrist@t7400 ~
     $ apt-cache search puppet | egrep '^puppet'
     puppet - Centralized configuration management - agent startup and 
compatibility scripts
     puppet-common - Centralized configuration management
     puppet-el - syntax highlighting for puppet manifests in emacs
     puppet-testsuite - Centralized configuration management - test suite
     puppetmaster - Centralized configuration management - master 
startup and compatibility scripts
     puppetmaster-common - Puppet master common scripts
     puppetmaster-passenger - Centralised configuration management - 
master setup to run under mod passenger
     puppet-lint - check puppet manifests for style guide conformity


David

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#165590

On Thu 17 Mar 2016 at 19:27:31 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> On 03/17/2016 04:18 PM, William Lee Valentine wrote:
> >I have installed Debian 2.6.32-5-686 on two machines. One, a custom
> >machine, has a Pentium III processor running at 800 megahertz, and
> >has 500 megabytes of memory; the other is an IBM Mpro Intellistation
> > 6229 with a Pentium IIII processor running at 2.2 gigahertz, and has
> > 2 gigabytes of memory.
> >
> >Debian notified me of updates for some time after I had had put it
> >on those machines. Then it ceased to have anything to say about
> >updates. I have four questions to ask about maintaining Debian.
> >
> >(1) Am I to update the kernel periodically? Is there advantage to
> >doing so?
> >
> >(2) If I do, will I again receive notices of updates, and will these
> >reference only the new kernel or the new kernel and also other
> >programs that I have installed?

You mention custom machine, and I assume hardware. If the kernel
is custom, try to move to a vanilla Debian one before upgrading.
After that, Debian will look after updating.

One other thing to check before upgrading is that your Pentium III
has pae. It might not, as you don't seem to be running a 686-pae
at the moment.

 $ grep -q '^flags.*\bpae\b' /proc/cpuinfo && echo yes || echo no

If it says "no", it would be safer to downgrade to a 486 kernel
in squeeze before upgrading. Either that, or make sure it doesn't
try to dist-upgrade to 3.2 kernels. Wheezy only has 3.2 686-pae
kernels, though there is a 2.6 686 without pae (I think).

If you try to stick with your current kernel, you may find wheezy's
udev won't work with it.

> >(3) If I update the kernel, do I simply download it and install it
> >over the old one, or is there some process of uninstalling the old
> >kernel that is needed before a later kernel is put in?

If you try upgrading a subset of packages to wheezy, make sure the
kernel and udev upgrade together. However, I don't recall how much
in the way of support packages are needed.

> >(4) How much disc space, at the minimum, should I allot to Debian, if
> >I leave it essentially in a single block on the primary disc drive? I
> >assume that OpenOffice will be installed automatically (since it was
> >earlier); and I will try to install XAMPP, WordPress, and Drupal.
> 
> 
> On 03/17/2016 03:52 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >2.6.32-5-686 is a kernel number.  Since you call it Debian
> >2.6.32-5-686 it is presumably a Debian compiled kernel.  Which
> >versionof Debian? This
> >
> >https://packages.debian.org/squeeze/linux-image-2.6.32-5-686
> >
> >would suggest that it is Squeeze (Debian 6).
> >
> >Squeeze has very recently stopped being supported, on 29th of
> >February 2016, which may be why reminders stopped.  What form did the
> >upgrade reminders take?
> 
> 
> Debian 6 is obsolete. You're going to want to do a
> backup-wipe-install-restore cycle on both machines and move to
> Debian 7 (or 8).
> 
> 
> The Intellistation should make for an acceptable low-end desktop
> machine.  I'd recommend:
> 
> 
> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/7.9.0/i386/iso-cd/debian-7.9.0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso
> 
> 
> One of my favorite tricks is to use 16 GB USB 3.0 flash drives as
> system drives (in machines that can run from a USB drive),
> partitioned (manually) as follows:
> 
>      0.5 GB ext4 /boot
>      0.5 GB random key encrypted swap
>     13.4 GB passphrase encrypted btrfs / (root)
> 
> 
> Install these software sets:
> 
>     Debian desktop environment
>     print server
>     SSH server
>     Standard system utilities
> 
> 
> You should have ~8 GB free HDD and ~1 GB free RAM when you're done.
> 
> 
> XAMPP, WordPress, and Drupal should fit on the system drive, but you
> might want to set up a HDD (or RAID) for Apache, MySQL, PHP, etc.,
> data.  As always, you will want enough RAM to avoid swapping.
> 
> 
> Getting Debian 7+ on the Pentium III could be tough -- the BIOS
> probably won't boot the Debian installer on USB, and might not boot
> the Debian installer on CD.

If that's the case, why recommend wipe-install instead of dist-upgrade?

But I've had no difficulty booting Debian from CD on any of my machines.
Obviously USBs are unsuitable for the ancient ones, though I await
a response to
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00677.html
with bated breath.

> If the easy approaches fail, there are
> other approaches that require more work.  If/ when you get the
> Debian installer going, install to a HDD, don't use encryption, and
> only install:
> 
>     SSH server
>     Standard system utilities
> 
> 
> You can add things carefully after that, but 512 MB of RAM, USB 1.1,
> IDE HDD's, etc., will be limiting.  That said, if you have some
> spare network card(s) and the machine supports them, it would make a
> decent firewall.

That's a very pessimistic view of a Pentium III clocking 800MHz.
My Pentium III runs jessie with 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian
3.16.7-ckt20-1+deb8u4 (2016-02-29) i686 GNU/Linux kernel.
I run the fvwm window manager as on all my machines, and it has
512MB memory and 500GB PATA disk, running at 650MHz.

It takes 25 secs to boot jessie (though the POST takes almost as long)
which is much faster than my 2-core 1.2GHz laptop with 2GB memory.
Anything disk-bound is quicker. I don't try to play videos on it, but
that's the only normal usage thing I avoid. Should I want to offload
some CPU-intensive task to it, I just let it churn.

Cheers,
David.

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#165591

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 14:44:31 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> But I've had no difficulty booting Debian from CD on any of my machines.
> Obviously USBs are unsuitable for the ancient ones, though I await
> a response to
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00677.html
> with bated breath.

Your proper route for eliciting a response would be in the referenced
thread and not as an aside on an unrelated matter.

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#165595

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 20:06:32 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 14:44:31 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > But I've had no difficulty booting Debian from CD on any of my machines.
> > Obviously USBs are unsuitable for the ancient ones, though I await
> > a response to
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00677.html
> > with bated breath.
> 
> Your proper route for eliciting a response would be in the referenced
> thread and not as an aside on an unrelated matter.

Felix Miata asked a question of you in that post.

Should I ask the same question and attach it to the same post as Felix did?
Or should I say "Me Too!" and attach it to Felix's post?
I can't see any role for me in that subthread besides those.

OTOH mentioning the thread here might cause William Lee Valentine,
or others, to take an interest if his Pentium III, like mine, won't
boot from USB without "ways around it". Is mentioning one thread
in another improper? It's not as if one can talk behind someone's
back in a public list.

Cheers,
David.

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#165598

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 16:09:47 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 20:06:32 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 14:44:31 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > > But I've had no difficulty booting Debian from CD on any of my machines.
> > > Obviously USBs are unsuitable for the ancient ones, though I await
> > > a response to
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00677.html
> > > with bated breath.
> > 
> > Your proper route for eliciting a response would be in the referenced
> > thread and not as an aside on an unrelated matter.
> 
> Felix Miata asked a question of you in that post.

Felix Miata asked a question of the List. Directing it at something I
said does not oblige me to answer it nor prevent anyone searching with
'usb boot without bios support' and providing a response. 

> Should I ask the same question and attach it to the same post as Felix did?
> Or should I say "Me Too!" and attach it to Felix's post?
> I can't see any role for me in that subthread besides those.

Not having anything to contribute is always a good reason for keeping
quiet.

> OTOH mentioning the thread here might cause William Lee Valentine,
> or others, to take an interest if his Pentium III, like mine, won't
> boot from USB without "ways around it". Is mentioning one thread
> in another improper? It's not as if one can talk behind someone's
> back in a public list.

William Lee Valentine's only post is about installing newer kernels and
has nothing to with booting a Debian image. Bringing up the latter
topic is not improper, just pointless.

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#165599

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 22:52:25 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 16:09:47 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 20:06:32 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 14:44:31 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > 
> > > > But I've had no difficulty booting Debian from CD on any of my machines.
> > > > Obviously USBs are unsuitable for the ancient ones, though I await
> > > > a response to
> > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/03/msg00677.html
> > > > with bated breath.
> > > 
> > > Your proper route for eliciting a response would be in the referenced
> > > thread and not as an aside on an unrelated matter.
> > 
> > Felix Miata asked a question of you in that post.
> 
> Felix Miata asked a question of the List.

I merely meant that the question was posed under a piece of text
written by you. I'm sorry if writing "asked a question of you" offends
you in some way. It wasn't designed to offend or provoke.

> Directing it at something I
> said does not oblige me to answer it nor prevent anyone searching with
> 'usb boot without bios support' and providing a response. 

Agreed; that's what mailing lists are all about.

> > Should I ask the same question and attach it to the same post as Felix did?
> > Or should I say "Me Too!" and attach it to Felix's post?
> > I can't see any role for me in that subthread besides those.
> 
> Not having anything to contribute is always a good reason for keeping
> quiet.

Precisely; that's why I left the subthread alone, "proper route" or not.

> > OTOH mentioning the thread here might cause William Lee Valentine,
> > or others, to take an interest if his Pentium III, like mine, won't
> > boot from USB without "ways around it". Is mentioning one thread
> > in another improper? It's not as if one can talk behind someone's
> > back in a public list.
> 
> William Lee Valentine's only post is about installing newer kernels and
> has nothing to with booting a Debian image. Bringing up the latter
> topic is not improper, just pointless.

David Christensen's recommendation for upgrading such an old kernel is
a move to wheezy. He prefers installation to upgrading (supported by
Ric Moore) but thinks the machine might not be able to boot the
Debian installer from USB or CD. I disagreed about the CD, which is
why I wrote my post.

I then made a casual remark about booting from a USB. Why? Because
I was intrigued by the possibility of your knowing a workaround.
If Felix hadn't written his post, I might have posted something.
But I can't work out why an aside attracted criticism enough for
you to bring it to everyone's attention; a breach of etiquette
to mention one thread in another?

And don't be afraid that I will asphyxiate if nobody answers Felix's
question straight away. :)

Cheers,
David.

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#165856

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 10:52:25PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> William Lee Valentine's only post is about installing newer kernels and
> has nothing to with booting a Debian image.

Which probably means he wasn't subscribed. :(

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.

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#165603

On 03/18/2016 12:44 PM, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 17 Mar 2016 at 19:27:31 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
>>If/ when you get the
>> Debian installer going, install to a HDD, don't use encryption, and
>> only install:
>>
>>      SSH server
>>      Standard system utilities
>>
>>
>> You can add things carefully after that, but 512 MB of RAM, USB 1.1,
>> IDE HDD's, etc., will be limiting.  That said, if you have some
>> spare network card(s) and the machine supports them, it would make a
>> decent firewall.
>
> That's a very pessimistic view of a Pentium III clocking 800MHz.
> My Pentium III runs jessie with 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian
> 3.16.7-ckt20-1+deb8u4 (2016-02-29) i686 GNU/Linux kernel.
> I run the fvwm window manager as on all my machines, and it has
> 512MB memory and 500GB PATA disk, running at 650MHz.

You're a better man than myself.  :-)  I recycled all of my Pentium III 
machines.  My 32-bit Pentium 4's will soon follow...


David

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#165608

On Fri 18 Mar 2016 at 18:31:24 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:

> You're a better man than myself.  :-)  I recycled all of my Pentium
> III machines.  My 32-bit Pentium 4's will soon follow...

Well, this Pentium III is the last machine I had on my desk at work,
so I'll probably run it until it dies, for sentimental reasons.
I'm retired; you're probably running machines for professional
reasons, which carries responsibilities I no longer have.

I can understand your reasons for favouring reinstallations, BTW.

Cheers,
David.

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#165609

On 03/18/2016 07:03 PM, David Wright wrote:
> Well, this Pentium III is the last machine I had on my desk at work,
> so I'll probably run it until it dies, for sentimental reasons.
> I'm retired; you're probably running machines for professional
> reasons, which carries responsibilities I no longer have.

I'm don't work on computers for pay any more -- my vocation is 
electrician (when work is available).  So, my SOHO network and computers 
are a hobby (vice?).


> I can understand your reasons for favouring reinstallations, BTW.

And I can understand the reasons for dist-upgrade.  It's nice that we 
have more than one choice.  :-)


David

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#165593

On Thu 17 Mar 2016 at 16:18:14 (-0700), William Lee Valentine wrote:
> I have installed Debian 2.6.32-5-686 on two machines. One, a custom
> machine, has a Pentium III processor running at 800 megahertz, and has
> 500 megabytes of memory; the other is an IBM Mpro Intellistation 6229
> with a Pentium IIII processor running at 2.2 gigahertz, and has 2
> gigabytes of memory.
> 
> Debian notified me of updates for some time after I had had put it on
> those machines. Then it ceased to have anything to say about updates. I
> have four questions to ask about maintaining Debian.
> 
> (1) Am I to update the kernel periodically? Is there advantage to doing
> so?
> 
> (2) If I do, will I again receive notices of updates, and will these
> reference only the new kernel or the new kernel and also other programs
> that I have installed?
> 
> (3) If I update the kernel, do I simply download it and install it over
> the old one, or is there some process of uninstalling the old kernel
> that is needed before a later kernel is put in?
> 
> (4) How much disc space, at the minimum, should I allot to Debian, if I
> leave it essentially in a single block on the primary disc drive? I
> assume that OpenOffice will be installed automatically (since it was
> earlier); and I will try to install XAMPP, WordPress, and Drupal.
> 
> Thank you for helping me to understand how to maintai8n these systems.

In case this might be useful, here's my own checklist for a dist-upgrade:


A fairly full list of steps in upgrading a Debian distribution.
Running script might help, with care when it is upgraded itself.
It's safer not to be in X.

0. check backups are valid, rebackup, and repeat before big steps.

1. read any upgrade/release notes for the new distribution.

2. apt-get update the current packages list.

3. apt-get upgrade the current distribution.

4. apt-get dist-upgrade the current distribution if necessary.

5. remove any 3rd-party and iffy packages, and backports, if possible.

6. (re)move desktop environment stuff.

7. renew the sources list, also commenting out any 3rd-party sources.

8. review /etc/apt/preferences* and /etc/apt/apt.conf* and/or move them.

9. apt-get clean (though I do this myself as a matter of routine).

10. apt-get update the new packages list.

11. possibly upgrade linux-image, linux-headers, dpkg, apt and aptitude,
    and reboot, bearing in mind anything like wireless stuff, ndiswrapper.
    (If script running, save typescript.)

12. apt-get upgrade to the new distribution: much might be held back.

13. there's usually a set of changes listed which needs acknowledging: q.

14. there's usually a query whether to restart services automatically: y.

15. if disk space is an issue, clean the cache after saving debs
    (if not running apt-cache).

16. check if udev has been upgraded and whether it needs to be,
    before or after a reboot (remembering script).

17. apt-get dist-upgrade to the new distribution.

18. if disk space is an issue, ...

19. apt-get -f install occasionally to fix problems including removals/purges.

20. sometimes dpkg --configure -a helps because something unconfigured is
    holding loads of debs back.

12-20. repeat from about here.

21. save any new debs not already saved, if needed.

22. if the kernel was upgraded since the last reboot, reboot
    (remembering ndiswrapper and script).

23. check over package release notes.

24. sort out mc configuration, especially confirm delete.

25. start reapplying customisations where still necessary.

26. check functionality and add 3rd-party packages where still necessary.

27. archive any script/typescript outputs that might have been saved.

28. save any new package debs and import them into apt-cacher-ng if necessary.

29. see if X still works!

Cheers,
David.

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#165672

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On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:09:51 -0500
David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu 17 Mar 2016 at 16:18:14 (-0700), William Lee Valentine wrote:
> > I have installed Debian 2.6.32-5-686 on two machines. One, a custom
> > machine, has a Pentium III processor running at 800 megahertz, and
> > has 500 megabytes of memory; the other is an IBM Mpro
> > Intellistation 6229 with a Pentium IIII processor running at 2.2
> > gigahertz, and has 2 gigabytes of memory.
> > 
> > Debian notified me of updates for some time after I had had put it
> > on those machines. Then it ceased to have anything to say about
> > updates. I have four questions to ask about maintaining Debian.
> > 
> > (1) Am I to update the kernel periodically? Is there advantage to
> > doing so?
> > 
> > (2) If I do, will I again receive notices of updates, and will these
> > reference only the new kernel or the new kernel and also other
> > programs that I have installed?
> > 
> > (3) If I update the kernel, do I simply download it and install it
> > over the old one, or is there some process of uninstalling the old
> > kernel that is needed before a later kernel is put in?
> > 
> > (4) How much disc space, at the minimum, should I allot to Debian,
> > if I leave it essentially in a single block on the primary disc
> > drive? I assume that OpenOffice will be installed automatically
> > (since it was earlier); and I will try to install XAMPP, WordPress,
> > and Drupal.
> > 
> > Thank you for helping me to understand how to maintai8n these
> > systems.  
> 
> In case this might be useful, here's my own checklist for a
> dist-upgrade:
> 
> 
> A fairly full list of steps in upgrading a Debian distribution.
> Running script might help, with care when it is upgraded itself.
> It's safer not to be in X.
> 
> 0. check backups are valid, rebackup, and repeat before big steps.
> 
> 1. read any upgrade/release notes for the new distribution.
> 
> 2. apt-get update the current packages list.
> 
> 3. apt-get upgrade the current distribution.
> 
> 4. apt-get dist-upgrade the current distribution if necessary.
> 
> 5. remove any 3rd-party and iffy packages, and backports, if possible.
> 
> 6. (re)move desktop environment stuff.
> 
> 7. renew the sources list, also commenting out any 3rd-party sources.
> 
> 8. review /etc/apt/preferences* and /etc/apt/apt.conf* and/or move
> them.
> 
> 9. apt-get clean (though I do this myself as a matter of routine).
> 
> 10. apt-get update the new packages list.
> 
> 11. possibly upgrade linux-image, linux-headers, dpkg, apt and
> aptitude, and reboot, bearing in mind anything like wireless stuff,
> ndiswrapper. (If script running, save typescript.)
> 
> 12. apt-get upgrade to the new distribution: much might be held back.
> 
> 13. there's usually a set of changes listed which needs
> acknowledging: q.
> 
> 14. there's usually a query whether to restart services
> automatically: y.
> 
> 15. if disk space is an issue, clean the cache after saving debs
>     (if not running apt-cache).
> 
> 16. check if udev has been upgraded and whether it needs to be,
>     before or after a reboot (remembering script).
> 
> 17. apt-get dist-upgrade to the new distribution.
> 
> 18. if disk space is an issue, ...
> 
> 19. apt-get -f install occasionally to fix problems including
> removals/purges.
> 
> 20. sometimes dpkg --configure -a helps because something
> unconfigured is holding loads of debs back.
> 
> 12-20. repeat from about here.
> 
> 21. save any new debs not already saved, if needed.
> 
> 22. if the kernel was upgraded since the last reboot, reboot
>     (remembering ndiswrapper and script).
> 
> 23. check over package release notes.
> 
> 24. sort out mc configuration, especially confirm delete.
> 
> 25. start reapplying customisations where still necessary.
> 
> 26. check functionality and add 3rd-party packages where still
> necessary.
> 
> 27. archive any script/typescript outputs that might have been saved.
> 
> 28. save any new package debs and import them into apt-cacher-ng if
> necessary.
> 
> 29. see if X still works!

With this much work, it would probably be easier just to do a wipe and
re-install, since the process you described basically nukes the system
down to the bare essentials anyway- and for the same effort you could
have an *even cleaner* fresh install.

Meh. I just apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade,
apt-get autoremove, and apt-get clean. It has never failed me.

I do exercise *some* caution though (I run testing)- I read
apt-listbugs before doing anything, and actually *read and investigate*
the changes about to take place on my system.

Do things the Debian Way, use common sense, and all will be well.

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#165741

On Sun 20 Mar 2016 at 12:23:03 (+0300), Adam Wilson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:09:51 -0500
> David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:

[list snipped]

> With this much work, it would probably be easier just to do a wipe and
> re-install, since the process you described basically nukes the system
> down to the bare essentials anyway

Bear in mind that this list has only grown over the years.

So, for example step 5 would take into account past use of deb-multimedia.
15, 18, 21 and 28 relate to the size of disks in the past.
29 dates from the Great X Reorganisation in 1999 (slink).
16 was inserted when that paired kernel/udev upgrade took place
(when was that).

- and for the same effort you could
> have an *even cleaner* fresh install.

Most of the other steps are things that you have to do anyway,
whether you upgrade to a new version or install it, eg 0, 1, 6, 13,
23, 24, 25, and 26.
19 and 20 are incantations that might be useful anytime a large
upgrade takes place, especially if you're running testing/unstable.

> Meh. I just apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade,
> apt-get autoremove, and apt-get clean. It has never failed me.

(Some of this list predates apt.)
11 is a reminder that I have to keep two machines with up-to-date
ndis-wrapped wifi so that I don't boot a new kernel but lose my wifi,
which would mean lugging them to the end of a cat5 cable.
(Installing means much the same.)

> I do exercise *some* caution though (I run testing)- I read
> apt-listbugs before doing anything, and actually *read and investigate*
> the changes about to take place on my system.
> 
> Do things the Debian Way, use common sense, and all will be well.

Upgrading *is* a Debian Way. Writing check lists like this was a habit
I learned years ago from going to sea. They save time and effort in
the long run.

Cheers,
David.

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