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Groups > linux.debian.user > #165431 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-03-15 20:10 +0100 |
| Last post | 2016-03-25 20:40 +0100 |
| Articles | 5 on this page of 45 — 10 participants |
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Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-15 20:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@galactic.demon.co.uk> - 2016-03-15 20:40 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-15 21:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2016-03-15 22:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-16 19:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-15 23:50 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-16 00:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-16 19:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-18 22:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-18 23:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-19 02:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-19 10:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 13:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-20 20:20 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 20:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 10:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-03-20 10:40 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 12:50 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 15:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-03-20 17:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 19:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-20 23:20 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 00:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-03-20 14:50 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-03-20 18:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-20 19:50 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-03-20 20:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-25 20:50 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-03-25 21:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-26 10:50 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-03-20 23:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 00:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2016-03-21 06:10 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 10:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 10:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-16 20:30 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-03-16 21:20 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-16 21:50 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-03-17 00:20 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-03-17 03:20 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-17 17:40 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-20 13:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2016-03-20 15:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-20 16:00 +0100
Re: Further to my installation error Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-25 20:40 +0100
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| From | Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-17 17:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <rdJ7R-1lp-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #165507 |
On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:49:28 +0000 Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote: > On Wed 16 Mar 2016 at 16:12:20 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: > > > Brian composed on 2016-03-16 19:21 (UTC): > > > > >On Tue 15 Mar 2016 at 22:41:14 +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > > > >>Pity it took me until it tried to use CD1 to do a net-install to > > >>realise that!! And I have now run out of writable CDs. :-( I > > >>had just enough for this shenanigans! > > > > >Why any Debian user should use an antiquated technology to install > > >is beyond me. USB sticks are two a penny. Isohybrid images rule; > > >OK! > > > > USB sticks, being of a non-uniform variety of sizes, shapes, speed, > > and reliability, are a pain to library. Inferior amount of space on > > which to write on them contributes to the library problem. Pricing > > of USB sticks on a per device basis remains much higher than OM, > > making creation of a single device for single purpose generally > > much more expensive than OM. There still exist working puters that > > cannot boot USB. I have several. > > So do I. There are ways round it. > > But the vast majortiy of users are not using the ancient machines you > and I have. The OP is at liberty to indicate whether her machine falls > into this class. A round shiny disc could be her only solution to > booting a Debian image. There is a potential problem also where modern machines (with UEFI boot) fail to install off USB without UEFI, meaning that if you want a UEFI-free install, you have to use optical media. This happened to me on an ASUS UX51vz with UEFI- with Debian 7 d-i, inserting an optical disc would provide the option to either boot the disk with UEFI or without it, while inserting a USB would only allow UEFI boot from the flash drive, and not legacy booting, even with Launch CSM enabled. So while using Debian 7, I just had to use optical media to install Debian sans UEFI (which I always do- call it nostalgia, but I like the simplicity of MBR and four primary partitions rather than the unfamiliar layers of GPT/UEFI related cruft). Booting off USB (forced to use UEFI) would simply result in a black screen after selecting "Install". Debian 8, however, seems to have solved this problem. USB can still only be booted from UEFI, but newer d-i means that installation now proceeds as normal until the point at which UEFI yes/no (force/leave) selection is reached- so with Debian 7 I had to use CDs/DVDs, but with 8 I am now free to use USB (my preferred way to carry out installations). That machine is also unfortunate in the sense that it has a wifi card (Centrino Advanced-N 6235) which requires non-free firmware in iwlwifi. So in my latest Debian installation on that machine, I used a full CD-1 image, burned to USB, booted via UEFI (which I was forced to do), and then did a UEFI-free installation using the options within the menu (after having turned off the Great Satan that is Restricted Boot), but declined to set up network interfaces via the installer (since the firmware in Debian is non-free). I have a USB wifi adapter based on AR9271 which I then plugged in. I compiled the free firmware (open-atheros-firmware) on a separate machine (which generated over 2GB worth of cruft) and copied across the firmware. Et voila! A working Debian 8 UX51vz with free wifi. That firmware could prove in handy later.
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-20 13:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <reKbw-6lh-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #165547 |
Adam Wilson a écrit : > > There is a potential problem also where modern machines (with UEFI > boot) fail to install off USB without UEFI, meaning that if you want a > UEFI-free install, you have to use optical media. I have a rather old (~2007) UEFI motherboard which does the opposite : its UEFI firmware lacks USB and AHCI drivers so it is impossible to boot in UEFI mode from a USB device or from a SATA drive in AHCI mode. > This happened to me > on an ASUS UX51vz with UEFI- with Debian 7 d-i, inserting an optical > disc would provide the option to either boot the disk with UEFI or > without it, Was this option displayed in the regular firmware boot menu or in a different menu ? > while inserting a USB would only allow UEFI boot from the > flash drive, and not legacy booting, even with Launch CSM enabled. Do you mean the the firmware boot menu only displayed one option (EFI mode) for the USB device ? Did you try to boot a non-EFI capable USB boot media, such as a Debian live image or a Debian installation image with the EFI partition deleted ? > So while using Debian 7, I just had to use optical media to install > Debian sans UEFI (which I always do- call it nostalgia, but I like the > simplicity of MBR and four primary partitions rather than the > unfamiliar layers of GPT/UEFI related cruft). Note that UEFI is not tied to GPT and vice versa. I happily use GPT on legacy systems when I need many partitions and LVM is not an option. Extended and logical partitions just suck. > Booting off USB (forced > to use UEFI) would simply result in a black screen after selecting > "Install". I have seen this display problem with the EFI framebuffer driver in Wheezy's kernel on some machines. Installing with a serial console worked. > Debian 8, however, seems to have solved this problem. Indeed, the kernel EFI framebuffer driver in Jessie's driver seems to have been improved. > USB can still > only be booted from UEFI, but newer d-i means that installation now > proceeds as normal until the point at which UEFI yes/no (force/leave) > selection is reached I don't remember seeing this option in Jessie's installer when booted in EFI mode. How is it labeled exactly ? At what stage is it proposed ?
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| From | Adam Wilson <moxalt@riseup.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-20 15:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <reM3E-7Fe-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #165677 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:51:56 +0100 Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> wrote: > Adam Wilson a écrit : > > > > There is a potential problem also where modern machines (with UEFI > > boot) fail to install off USB without UEFI, meaning that if you > > want a UEFI-free install, you have to use optical media. > > I have a rather old (~2007) UEFI motherboard which does the opposite : > its UEFI firmware lacks USB and AHCI drivers so it is impossible to > boot in UEFI mode from a USB device or from a SATA drive in AHCI mode. > > > This happened to me > > on an ASUS UX51vz with UEFI- with Debian 7 d-i, inserting an optical > > disc would provide the option to either boot the disk with UEFI or > > without it, > > Was this option displayed in the regular firmware boot menu or in a > different menu ? The boot order menu in the UEFI settings. > > while inserting a USB would only allow UEFI boot from the > > flash drive, and not legacy booting, even with Launch CSM enabled. > > Do you mean the the firmware boot menu only displayed one option (EFI > mode) for the USB device ? Yes. > Did you try to boot a non-EFI capable USB boot media, such as a Debian > live image or a Debian installation image with the EFI partition > deleted ? No. That did not occur to me; I assumed it would then refuse to boot at all. I shall try this out and get back to you. > > So while using Debian 7, I just had to use optical media to install > > Debian sans UEFI (which I always do- call it nostalgia, but I like > > the simplicity of MBR and four primary partitions rather than the > > unfamiliar layers of GPT/UEFI related cruft). > > Note that UEFI is not tied to GPT and vice versa. I happily use GPT on > legacy systems when I need many partitions and LVM is not an option. > Extended and logical partitions just suck. And I don't like / don't need either GPT, LVM, or logical volumes! Four primary partitions has always been enough for me. > > Booting off USB (forced > > to use UEFI) would simply result in a black screen after selecting > > "Install". > > I have seen this display problem with the EFI framebuffer driver in > Wheezy's kernel on some machines. Installing with a serial console > worked. How does one do that? > > Debian 8, however, seems to have solved this problem. > > Indeed, the kernel EFI framebuffer driver in Jessie's driver seems to > have been improved. I wouldn't know anything about that, but from my field experience UEFI works with far less hassle in Jessie as opposed to Wheezy. > > USB can still > > only be booted from UEFI, but newer d-i means that installation now > > proceeds as normal until the point at which UEFI yes/no > > (force/leave) selection is reached > > I don't remember seeing this option in Jessie's installer when booted > in EFI mode. How is it labeled exactly ? At what stage is it > proposed ? It isn't something I saw either until my first UEFI installation media boot- it may have been triggered by the fact that I was using 'Launch CSM' Legacy mode so that I wouldn't have to bother with GPT/UEFI and could use something resembling traditional BIOS and MBR. It is in between the tasksel stage and the GRUB installation stage. A prompt appeared telling me that I could either 'Force UEFI' for the operating system installation, and have Jessie configured to boot from UEFI, or not. It detected the fact that I had booted from UEFI but my system was capable of either booting method.
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-20 16:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <reMZH-8hP-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #165686 |
Adam Wilson a écrit : > On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:51:56 +0100 > Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> wrote: > >> Did you try to boot a non-EFI capable USB boot media, such as a Debian >> live image or a Debian installation image with the EFI partition >> deleted ? (I guess that just changing the EFI partition type ID to "00" (empty) should do the trick too). > No. That did not occur to me; I assumed it would then refuse to boot at > all. I shall try this out and get back to you. Thanks. > And I don't like / don't need either GPT, LVM, or logical volumes! Four > primary partitions has always been enough for me. Lucky you... >> I have seen this display problem with the EFI framebuffer driver in >> Wheezy's kernel on some machines. Installing with a serial console >> worked. > > How does one do that? First, the computer must have a serial (RS232 UART) interface. I guess it must be an internal one which may be quite rare these days, not a USB-serial adapter. You must connect it to a serial console (with a straight serial cable) or another computer (with a crossed serial cable) running a serial console emulator such as putty, picocom... Finally you must pass some parameters on the linux command line in GRUB. These are mentionned in the installation manual. There are a coupe of drawback, though : the installer through the serial console is available only in black&white and english, and after the installation, only the serial console is enabled. At least that was true in Wheezy, and enabling the virtual consoles tty1-6 in /etc/inittab was easy. I don't know about Jessie and systemd. >>> USB can still >>> only be booted from UEFI, but newer d-i means that installation now >>> proceeds as normal until the point at which UEFI yes/no >>> (force/leave) selection is reached >> >> I don't remember seeing this option in Jessie's installer when booted >> in EFI mode. How is it labeled exactly ? At what stage is it >> proposed ? > > It isn't something I saw either until my first UEFI installation media > boot- it may have been triggered by the fact that I was using 'Launch > CSM' Legacy mode so that I wouldn't have to bother with GPT/UEFI and > could use something resembling traditional BIOS and MBR. I don't remember seeing it even in my latest EFI installations. > It is in between the tasksel stage and the GRUB installation stage. A > prompt appeared telling me that I could either 'Force UEFI' for the > operating system installation, and have Jessie configured to boot from > UEFI, or not. It detected the fact that I had booted from UEFI but my > system was capable of either booting method. Thanks, I'll double check that during my next installation.
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-25 20:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <rgFKp-6zA-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #165686 |
Adam Wilson a écrit : > On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:51:56 +0100 > Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> wrote: >> Adam Wilson a écrit : > >>> USB can still >>> only be booted from UEFI, but newer d-i means that installation now >>> proceeds as normal until the point at which UEFI yes/no >>> (force/leave) selection is reached >> >> I don't remember seeing this option in Jessie's installer when booted >> in EFI mode. How is it labeled exactly ? At what stage is it >> proposed ? (...) > It is in between the tasksel stage and the GRUB installation stage. A > prompt appeared telling me that I could either 'Force UEFI' for the > operating system installation, and have Jessie configured to boot from > UEFI, or not. It detected the fact that I had booted from UEFI but my > system was capable of either booting method. Eventually I was able to trigger the prompt. Thanks for the information. It actually happens when partman (the partition tool) starts, if an already installed system which boots from legacy mode is detected. I think I never met this situation during my previous installations ; either there was no other system installed, either the other system booted from EFI mode too. This time by chance there was a previous Debian installation in legacy mode.
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