Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #165069 > unrolled thread

Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)?

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2016-03-07 05:00 +0100
    Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2016-03-07 07:00 +0100
      Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-07 22:20 +0100
    Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 11:50 +0100
      Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2016-03-07 13:10 +0100
        Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 11:40 +0100
          Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? err404@free.fr - 2016-03-08 11:50 +0100
          Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-09 20:50 +0100
            Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 22:50 +0100
      Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-03-07 16:30 +0100
        Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2016-03-07 17:40 +0100
        Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 20:30 +0100
          Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-03-07 20:40 +0100
            Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 21:00 +0100
              Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-03-07 21:00 +0100
                Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 21:30 +0100
            Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2016-03-07 21:30 +0100
              Re: Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 21:40 +0100

#165069 — Is it possible to conduct a Debian install over wifi (iwlwifi)?

Hi,

I've got a ThinkPad X1 Carbon gen 4 which I'd like to try installing
Debian on. Preferably stable, but I'll try with testing if
necessary.

The machine has an Intel 8260 wifi which will require non-free
firmware. Although it has an eth0 (e1000e), physically using that
requires an adaptor, so that is not an option.

As per
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
I wrote an ISO of the current amd64 netinst including non-free
firmware to a USB and booted from it.

At no point does it tell me that it requires additional firmware. It
also does not load iwlwifi or any of the associated wifi modules.

So, given this is a netinst installer I am unable to proceed.

I tried dropping to a shell and doing "modprobe iwlwifi". Although
this appeared to load the module without error (lsmod shows it), it
did not result in a wlan0 network device appearing.

Is there any way to force the debian-installer to realise it needs
to load firmware for this wifi device? I have a feeling that it is
seeing there is an eth0 and giving up at that point, assuming that
is good enough.

All of my online research so far just shows instructions that say
that the installer will ask for firmware if it thinks it needs it.

Is it even possible to do a Debian install over wifi alone?

I've booted an Ubuntu live environment and the wifi does work there,
so am pretty sure it's just a driver/firmware issue.

Cheers,
Andy

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#165070

Hello,

On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 03:39:26AM +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
> As per
> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
> I wrote an ISO of the current amd64 netinst including non-free
> firmware to a USB and booted from it.
> 
> At no point does it tell me that it requires additional firmware. It
> also does not load iwlwifi or any of the associated wifi modules.

An off-list response said they had more success with a daily
installer image.

I tried out:

    http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/stretch_di_alpha5/amd64/iso-cd/

and indeed this now correctly says it requires firmware. It finds and
configures the wlan device and is able to download things through
wifi.

Unfortunately this of course attempts to install stretch. That
wouldn't be so bad but this fails during "Select and install
software" with:

pkgsel: checking for (security) updates to the base system
in-target: Reading package lists...
in-target:
in-target: Building dependency tree...
in-target:
in-target: reading state information...
in-target: You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these.
in-target: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
in-target:  ifupdown : Breaks: systemd (< 228-3~) but 228-2+b1 is installed
in-target:  systemd : Depends: libsystemd0 (= 228-2+b1) but 229-2 is installed
in-target: E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
in-target: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of systemd:
in-target:  systemd depends on libsystemd0 (= 228-2+b1); however:
in-target:   Version of libsystemd0:amd64 on system is 229-2.
in-target:  ifupdown (0.8.10) breaks systemd (<< 228-3~) and is installed.
in-target:   Version of systemd to be configured is 228-2+b1.

I don't fancy unpicking problems like this on testing, so for now I
think I'll go back and see if there are any daily installer images
for jessie that work with regard to wifi firmware.

At least I know now that it is possible.

Cheers,
Andy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165099

Andy Smith a écrit :
> 
> On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 03:39:26AM +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
>> As per
>> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
>> I wrote an ISO of the current amd64 netinst including non-free
>> firmware to a USB and booted from it.
>>
>> At no point does it tell me that it requires additional firmware. It
>> also does not load iwlwifi or any of the associated wifi modules.
> 
> An off-list response said they had more success with a daily
> installer image.
> 
> I tried out:
> 
>     http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/stretch_di_alpha5/amd64/iso-cd/
> 
> and indeed this now correctly says it requires firmware. It finds and
> configures the wlan device and is able to download things through
> wifi.

The 3.16 kernel included in Jessie is probably too old and lacks support
for this hardware. What does
$ lspci -nnk
report about the wireless adapter ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165072

On Mon 07 Mar 2016 at 03:39:26 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:

> Is there any way to force the debian-installer to realise it needs
> to load firmware for this wifi device? I have a feeling that it is
> seeing there is an eth0 and giving up at that point, assuming that
> is good enough.
> 
> All of my online research so far just shows instructions that say
> that the installer will ask for firmware if it thinks it needs it.
> 
> Is it even possible to do a Debian install over wifi alone?

1. Stop at the 'Detect network hardware' stage and switch to a console.

2. Unpack the .deb for the firmware you want:

    ar -x /cdrom/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/<your_firmware.deb>

3. Uncompress data.tar.xz:

    unxz data.tar.xz

4. Install the firmware in /lib/firmware:

    tar xvf data.tar

5. Proceed with detecting network hardware and configuring the network.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165073

Hi Brian,

On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 10:46:47AM +0000, Brian wrote:
> 1. Stop at the 'Detect network hardware' stage and switch to a console.
> 
> 2. Unpack the .deb for the firmware you want:
> 
>     ar -x /cdrom/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/<your_firmware.deb>

Because I was using the non-free firmware installers, the firmware
was already present in /lib/firmware and still the (jessie
net-)installer did not ask for it.

In my other follow-up I mentioned that a daily d-i stretch ISO
(again of the unofficial non-free firmware variety) did actually
work as far as wifi firmware was concerned, but bombed out with a
package conflict. It turns out that switching to the console and
doing "apt-get install -f" as it suggested did resolve that and the
install was able to proceed.

I have ended up with a successful install of stretch, entirely
installed over wifi, which is very encouraging.

I'm undecided whether to stay on testing though, so I might yet end
up trying a few different things to get stable installed…

Cheers,
Andy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165113

On Mon 07 Mar 2016 at 12:07:21 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 10:46:47AM +0000, Brian wrote:
> > 1. Stop at the 'Detect network hardware' stage and switch to a console.
> > 
> > 2. Unpack the .deb for the firmware you want:
> > 
> >     ar -x /cdrom/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/<your_firmware.deb>
> 
> Because I was using the non-free firmware installers, the firmware
> was already present in /lib/firmware and still the (jessie
> net-)installer did not ask for it.

Why should the installer ask for firmware if it knows it is present in
/lib/firmware? Your problem is that the firmware is not transferred to
the device. The consequence is that the wireless interface wlan0 is not
detected. The syslog should confirm this.

The technique described cuts out the d-i middleman and gives the kernel
what it wants. You have nothing to lose by trying it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165115

On 03/08/2016 11:37 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 07 Mar 2016 at 12:07:21 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 10:46:47AM +0000, Brian wrote:
>>> 1. Stop at the 'Detect network hardware' stage and switch to a console.
>>>
>>> 2. Unpack the .deb for the firmware you want:
>>>
>>>     ar -x /cdrom/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/<your_firmware.deb>
>>
>> Because I was using the non-free firmware installers, the firmware
>> was already present in /lib/firmware and still the (jessie
>> net-)installer did not ask for it.
> 
> Why should the installer ask for firmware if it knows it is present in
> /lib/firmware? Your problem is that the firmware is not transferred to
> the device. The consequence is that the wireless interface wlan0 is not
> detected. The syslog should confirm this.
> 
> The technique described cuts out the d-i middleman and gives the kernel
> what it wants. You have nothing to lose by trying it.
> 
you can use debian iso with non-free firmware included:
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165193

Brian a écrit :
> 
> Why should the installer ask for firmware if it knows it is present in
> /lib/firmware? Your problem is that the firmware is not transferred to
> the device. The consequence is that the wireless interface wlan0 is not
> detected. The syslog should confirm this.

Or not. It doesn't work this way.

1) The kernel detects the device and notifies hotplug/udev.
2) Hotplug/udev loads the matching kernel module.
3) The kernel module probes the device, decides it needs a firmware and
notifies hotplug/udev.
4) Hotplug/udev tries to load the firmware from the specified location.
5) If the firmware is loaded successfully, the kernel module creates the
network interface.
5") If the firmware is missing, the kernel/module writes a message in
the kernel log.
6) The Debian installer parses the kernel log, detects the error message
and prompts the user for the missing firmware.

If step 2) fails because no kernel module matches the device, then no
firmware will be required.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165195

On Wed 09 Mar 2016 at 20:41:56 +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

> Brian a écrit :
> > 
> > Why should the installer ask for firmware if it knows it is present in
> > /lib/firmware? Your problem is that the firmware is not transferred to
> > the device. The consequence is that the wireless interface wlan0 is not
> > detected. The syslog should confirm this.
> 
> Or not. It doesn't work this way.

What doesn't work that way? The kernel? udev? The installer (which is
the component we are focussed on in this thread)?
> 
> 1) The kernel detects the device and notifies hotplug/udev.
> 2) Hotplug/udev loads the matching kernel module.
> 3) The kernel module probes the device, decides it needs a firmware and
> notifies hotplug/udev.
> 4) Hotplug/udev tries to load the firmware from the specified location.
> 5) If the firmware is loaded successfully, the kernel module creates the
> network interface.
> 5") If the firmware is missing, the kernel/module writes a message in
> the kernel log.
> 6) The Debian installer parses the kernel log, detects the error message
> and prompts the user for the missing firmware.

With firmware-7.9.0-i386-netinst.iso and an Atheros based USB device the
installer does not ask for firmware. Why should it if it has found it?
It gets on with the job and at 'Configure the network' it displays wlan0
as a choice. Brilliant; the user has nothing to do.

With firmware-8.2.0-i386-netinst.iso the firmware is not asked for as
before. It can be checked that it is present in /lib/firmware and that
the correct modules have been loaded; everything looks good to go but
'Configure the network' does not display wlan0. Give the installer the
firmware as I have indicated and wlan0 is detected.

> If step 2) fails because no kernel module matches the device, then no
> firmware will be required.

But the kernel modules are found and the firmware located and copied to
/lib/firmware). Still no wlan0 interface.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165077

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
> 2. Unpack the .deb for the firmware you want:
> 
>     ar -x /cdrom/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/<your_firmware.deb>
> 
> 3. Uncompress data.tar.xz:
> 
>     unxz data.tar.xz
> 
> 4. Install the firmware in /lib/firmware:
> 
>     tar xvf data.tar

What is the point of doing three steps with intermediate files when a single
step is enough?

For decompressing and detaring, everybody knows how to use a pipe:

unxz < data.tar.xz | tar x

With GNU tar, "tar xJ" will call unxz automatically, and if the input is a
file, "tar xf" will detect the compression.

Furthermore, dpkg provides tools to handle deb packages:

dpkg --fsys-tarfile /path/to/file.deb | tar x

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165082

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:19:37 +0100
Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote:

>L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
>> 2. Unpack the .deb for the firmware you want:
>> 
>>     ar -x /cdrom/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/<your_firmware.deb>
>> 
>> 3. Uncompress data.tar.xz:
>> 
>>     unxz data.tar.xz
>> 
>> 4. Install the firmware in /lib/firmware:
>> 
>>     tar xvf data.tar  
>
>What is the point of doing three steps with intermediate files when a single
>step is enough?
>
>For decompressing and detaring, everybody knows how to use a pipe:
>

Actually, no, everybody does not know how to use a pipe. Many can not
even find the "|" on the keyboard.


>unxz < data.tar.xz | tar x
>
>With GNU tar, "tar xJ" will call unxz automatically, and if the input is a
>file, "tar xf" will detect the compression.
>
>Furthermore, dpkg provides tools to handle deb packages:
>
>dpkg --fsys-tarfile /path/to/file.deb | tar x
>
>Regards,
>


-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914
[http://linuxcounter.net/user/425914.html]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165091

On Mon 07 Mar 2016 at 16:19:37 +0100, Nicolas George wrote:

> L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
> > 2. Unpack the .deb for the firmware you want:
> > 
> >     ar -x /cdrom/pool/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/<your_firmware.deb>
> > 
> > 3. Uncompress data.tar.xz:
> > 
> >     unxz data.tar.xz
> > 
> > 4. Install the firmware in /lib/firmware:
> > 
> >     tar xvf data.tar
> 
> What is the point of doing three steps with intermediate files when a single
> step is enough?

It makes things clearer for someone who doesn't mind doing step-by-step
processes. Walking before running springs to mind.

> For decompressing and detaring, everybody knows how to use a pipe:
> 
> unxz < data.tar.xz | tar x
> 
> With GNU tar, "tar xJ" will call unxz automatically, and if the input is a
> file, "tar xf" will detect the compression.

I'm positive this is good advice. Thanks for posting it.

> Furthermore, dpkg provides tools to handle deb packages:
> 
> dpkg --fsys-tarfile /path/to/file.deb | tar x

You've tried using dpkg from a console in the installer at the install
stage we are considering? Feel free to report back on your experience.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165092

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
> > dpkg --fsys-tarfile /path/to/file.deb | tar x
> 
> You've tried using dpkg from a console in the installer at the install
> stage we are considering? Feel free to report back on your experience.

No, but I am ready to bet public humiliation that this will work.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165093

On Mon 07 Mar 2016 at 20:30:19 +0100, Nicolas George wrote:

> L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
> > > dpkg --fsys-tarfile /path/to/file.deb | tar x
> > 
> > You've tried using dpkg from a console in the installer at the install
> > stage we are considering? Feel free to report back on your experience.
> 
> No, but I am ready to bet public humiliation that this will work.

Over the years I've observed that statements based on some preconceived
idea take precedence over trying a procedure and coming to a conclusion
based on experience and what is documented.

dpkg is not installed with 'Load installer components from CD'.

If it is present the 'give-me-a-miracle=yes' option must have been
passed to d-i.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165094

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
> Over the years I've observed that statements based on some preconceived
> idea take precedence over trying a procedure and coming to a conclusion
> based on experience and what is documented.

Given your criticism, I suppose you did try. Can you copy-paste your
attempt?

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165095

On Mon 07 Mar 2016 at 20:58:13 +0100, Nicolas George wrote:

> L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
> > Over the years I've observed that statements based on some preconceived
> > idea take precedence over trying a procedure and coming to a conclusion
> > based on experience and what is documented.
> 
> Given your criticism, I suppose you did try. Can you copy-paste your
> attempt?

You suppose correctly, otherwise I would not put the effort into posting.
You (it would seem) haven't tried or tested what the installer does and
when dpkg becomes available. Asking me for the outcome of my attempt when
I have indicated it is impossible for it to work is not helpful.

I rather think the ball is in your court.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165096

On 8/03/2016 6:30 AM, Nicolas George wrote:
> L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
>>> dpkg --fsys-tarfile /path/to/file.deb | tar x
>>
>> You've tried using dpkg from a console in the installer at the install
>> stage we are considering? Feel free to report back on your experience.
> 
> No, but I am ready to bet public humiliation that this will work.

I'm sure you won't be humiliated  ... ;-)


# dpkg --fsys-tarfile
/var/cache/apt/archives/unzip_6.0-8+deb7u5_amd64.deb|tar t
./
./usr/
./usr/share/
./usr/share/man/
./usr/share/man/man1/
./usr/share/man/man1/unzip.1.gz
./usr/share/man/man1/unzipsfx.1.gz
./usr/share/man/man1/zipinfo.1.gz
./usr/share/man/man1/funzip.1.gz
./usr/share/man/man1/zipgrep.1.gz
./usr/share/doc/
./usr/share/doc/unzip/
./usr/share/doc/unzip/copyright
./usr/share/doc/unzip/BUGS
./usr/share/doc/unzip/ToDo
./usr/share/doc/unzip/History.600.gz
./usr/share/doc/unzip/changelog.Debian.gz
./usr/lib/
./usr/lib/mime/
./usr/lib/mime/packages/
./usr/lib/mime/packages/unzip
./usr/bin/
./usr/bin/zipinfo
./usr/bin/unzipsfx
./usr/bin/funzip
./usr/bin/zipgrep
./usr/bin/unzip
./usr/share/doc/unzip/changelog.gz


Cheers
A.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#165097

On Tue 08 Mar 2016 at 07:21:06 +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote:

> 
> 
> On 8/03/2016 6:30 AM, Nicolas George wrote:
> > L'octidi 18 ventôse, an CCXXIV, Brian a écrit :
> >>> dpkg --fsys-tarfile /path/to/file.deb | tar x
> >>
> >> You've tried using dpkg from a console in the installer at the install
> >> stage we are considering? Feel free to report back on your experience.
> > 
> > No, but I am ready to bet public humiliation that this will work.
> 
> I'm sure you won't be humiliated  ... ;-)
> 
> 
> # dpkg --fsys-tarfile
> /var/cache/apt/archives/unzip_6.0-8+deb7u5_amd64.deb|tar t
> ./
> ./usr/
> ./usr/share/
> ./usr/share/man/
> ./usr/share/man/man1/
> ./usr/share/man/man1/unzip.1.gz
> ./usr/share/man/man1/unzipsfx.1.gz
> ./usr/share/man/man1/zipinfo.1.gz
> ./usr/share/man/man1/funzip.1.gz
> ./usr/share/man/man1/zipgrep.1.gz
> ./usr/share/doc/
> ./usr/share/doc/unzip/
> ./usr/share/doc/unzip/copyright
> ./usr/share/doc/unzip/BUGS
> ./usr/share/doc/unzip/ToDo
> ./usr/share/doc/unzip/History.600.gz
> ./usr/share/doc/unzip/changelog.Debian.gz
> ./usr/lib/
> ./usr/lib/mime/
> ./usr/lib/mime/packages/
> ./usr/lib/mime/packages/unzip
> ./usr/bin/
> ./usr/bin/zipinfo
> ./usr/bin/unzipsfx
> ./usr/bin/funzip
> ./usr/bin/zipgrep
> ./usr/bin/unzip
> ./usr/share/doc/unzip/changelog.gz

You got all of that output in an *installer environmemt* immediately
after the 'Load installer components from CD' stage of the stage?

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web