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How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot

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  How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-09 17:20 +0200
    Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2016-07-09 19:40 +0200
      Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-09 23:20 +0200
        Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2016-07-10 15:40 +0200
          Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Wilko Fokken <wfokken@web.de> - 2016-08-07 21:00 +0200
    Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2016-07-10 17:20 +0200
      Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-10 23:10 +0200
        Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 16:00 +0200
          Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-11 17:50 +0200
            Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 18:10 +0200
              Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-16 15:00 +0200
                Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 15:10 +0200
                  Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-16 15:30 +0200
                    Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot "D. R. Evans" <doc.evans@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 17:10 +0200
                      Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-16 17:30 +0200
                        How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2016-08-05 09:30 +0200
                          Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-08-05 21:40 +0200
                            Re: Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2016-08-06 16:10 +0200
                Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-16 15:30 +0200
    Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-11 12:40 +0200
      Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-11 15:30 +0200
        Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-12 17:40 +0200
        Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-12 17:40 +0200
          Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-16 16:10 +0200
            Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-16 16:20 +0200
              Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-16 16:30 +0200
                Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:40 +0200
                  Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2016-07-16 16:50 +0200
                    Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> - 2016-07-16 17:20 +0200
                    How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2016-08-05 09:30 +0200
          Re: How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> - 2016-07-28 09:10 +0200

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#169911 — How to prevent /tmp files from being deleted at reboot

In Debian Jessie, systemd ignores the TMPTIME variable in /etc/default/rcS and just 
blindly deletes everything on every reboot.

A bug has been filed about it:  "#795269 TMPTIME not honored anymore"
( https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=795269 )

But I tried the suggested solution, and the files in /tmp still get deleted at reboot.

What I currently have which doesn't work:

    $ egrep -v '^(#|$)' /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf
    D /tmp 1777 root root 30d
    x /tmp/systemd-private-%b-*
    X /tmp/systemd-private-%b-*/tmp
    x /var/tmp/systemd-private-%b-*
    X /var/tmp/systemd-private-%b-*/tmp


Would someone know what I can do so that only files older than some number of days 
get deleted?

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#169913

MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> wrote:

> In Debian Jessie, systemd ignores the TMPTIME variable in /etc/default/rcS and just 
> blindly deletes everything on every reboot.

> A bug has been filed about it:  "#795269 TMPTIME not honored anymore"
> ( https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=795269 )

> But I tried the suggested solution, and the files in /tmp still get deleted at reboot.

> What I currently have which doesn't work:

>    $ egrep -v '^(#|$)' /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf
>    D /tmp 1777 root root 30d
>    x /tmp/systemd-private-%b-*
>    X /tmp/systemd-private-%b-*/tmp
>    x /var/tmp/systemd-private-%b-*
>    X /var/tmp/systemd-private-%b-*/tmp

> Would someone know what I can do so that only files older than some number of days 
> get deleted?

/tmp is most likely a tmpfs, a filesystem in RAM which will vanish (and
all files and directories in it) as soon as the computer is rebooted.

But /tmp being wiped on (re)boot has been the norm and case for
UNIX-based operating systems since nearly forever. No program or user
should expect its/his files to persist in /tmp across a reboot. That is
what /var/tmp is for, a temporary place which will not be wiped upon
reboot.

I regard /tmp being cleared on (re)boot as a feature, not a bug.

The FHS says that "On most systems, this directory is cleared out at
boot or at shutdown by the local system. The basis for this was
historical precedent and common practice. However, it was not made a
requirement because system administration is not within the scope of the
FSSTND. For this reason people and programs must not assume that any
files or directories in /tmp are preserved between invocations of the
program. The reasoning behind this is for compliance with IEEE standard
P1003.2 (POSIX, part 2)."

IMO: If you have a program that relies on files or directories in /tmp
being persistent, then that program is buggy, not Debian.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

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#169920

> /tmp is most likely a tmpfs, a filesystem in RAM which will vanish (and
> all files and directories in it) as soon as the computer is rebooted.

No, it's a dedicated partition on disk.

> But /tmp being wiped on (re)boot has been the norm and case for
> UNIX-based operating systems since nearly forever. No program or user
> should expect its/his files to persist in /tmp across a reboot. That is
> what /var/tmp is for, a temporary place which will not be wiped upon
> reboot.

Well, we used to have TMPTIME so that everyone could decide for himself how long 
"temporary" means.

If it's not possible anymore, it's a regression, and it's a Debian bug anyway, since 
the /etc/default/rcS file has a clearly documented setting which is in fact ignored.

But anyway, that's beside the point.

The point is that I cannot get the syntax right to achieve what the systemd 
documentation seems to imply: that it is possible to define when a file should be 
deleted in number of days, indepentently of arbitrary reboots.

So if someone knows what I'm doing wrong in trying to obtain the documented behavior, 
thanks for sharing.

MI


PS:
> IMO: If you have a program that relies on files or directories in /tmp
> being persistent, then that program is buggy, not Debian.

It's not a program. It's just me, mostly while setting up and testing a fresh system, 
which may need frequent reboots.

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#169945

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[Sat, 9 Jul 2016 23:16:29 +0200] MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> wrote:

[...]

Sorry, I can not help with the configuration issue... :(

> PS:
> > IMO: If you have a program that relies on files or directories
> > in /tmp being persistent, then that program is buggy, not Debian.
> 
> It's not a program. It's just me, mostly while setting up and testing
> a fresh system, which may need frequent reboots.

...but may I suggest you to use `/var/tmp` as a workaround?
`/var/tmp` is a persistent alternative to `/tmp`.

HTH
Linux-Fan

-- 
http://masysma.lima-city.de/

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#170820

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 03:32:12PM +0200, Linux-Fan wrote:
> [Sat, 9 Jul 2016 23:16:29 +0200] MI <mi.lists.debian@alma.ch> wrote:

> > > IMO: If you have a program that relies on files or directories
> > > in /tmp being persistent, then that program is buggy, not Debian.
> > 
> > It's not a program. It's just me, mostly while setting up and testing
> > a fresh system, which may need frequent reboots.
> 
> ...but may I suggest you to use `/var/tmp` as a workaround?
> `/var/tmp` is a persistent alternative to `/tmp`.
> 
> HTH
> Linux-Fan


I set the following link (in single user mode):


– – – – – – – – – – –

rm -rf /tmp

chmod 1777 /var/TMP

ln -s /var/TMP /tmp



Additionly I altered /etc/default/rcS:

# TMPTIME=0

TMPTIME=8

– – – – – – – – – – –

So far, my system seems to be running smoothly; (with MANY reboots a day
as I am trying out a cohabitation of my favourite old 'icewm' with Debians
chosen xfce4-wm.)

My oldest files and directories in '/tmp' date from july 31.

(Hoping my answer won't be redundant, as only skimmed my mails in a rush.)


Regards Wilko

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#169948

On a testing/sid system with sysvinit-core, the script
/etc/init.d/mountall-bootclean.sh (linked to /etc/rcS.d/) calls clean_tmp via
clean_all from /lib/init/bootclean.sh . In this function it says
  "Don't clean remaining files if TMPTIME is negative or 'infinite'"

Therefore, to never cleanup set

TMPTIME='infinite'

What is your exact setting in /etc/default/rcS ?

Regards,
jvp.

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#169962

That was how it has "always" worked before. But now systemd ignores TMPTIME, and also 
seems to ignore it's own "age" option, unless I'm not using it right.


-------- Original Message --------
> On a testing/sid system with sysvinit-core, the script
> /etc/init.d/mountall-bootclean.sh (linked to /etc/rcS.d/) calls clean_tmp via
> clean_all from /lib/init/bootclean.sh . In this function it says
>    "Don't clean remaining files if TMPTIME is negative or 'infinite'"
>
> Therefore, to never cleanup set
>
> TMPTIME='infinite'
>
> What is your exact setting in /etc/default/rcS ?
>
> Regards,
> jvp.
>
>

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#169988

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MI wrote on 07/10/2016 03:04 PM:
> That was how it has "always" worked before. But now systemd ignores TMPTIME, and also 
> seems to ignore it's own "age" option, unless I'm not using it right.
> 

I am running Jessie, and have
TMPTIME=-1
in /etc/default/rcS

and it still works fine for me.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR

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#169989

Sounds promising!

Would you share what you have in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ ? From what I had read, that is 
where systemd would read it's tmp settings, and where it would have migrated settings 
from rcS on upgades.

You do have a "normal" Debian Jessie with systemd, right? If you uninstalled systemd 
or installed a different init system, then of course, you wouldn't have the problem I 
have.

Thanks,

MI


-------- Original Message --------
> MI wrote on 07/10/2016 03:04 PM:
>> That was how it has "always" worked before. But now systemd ignores TMPTIME, and also
>> seems to ignore it's own "age" option, unless I'm not using it right.
>>
> I am running Jessie, and have
> TMPTIME=-1
> in /etc/default/rcS
>
> and it still works fine for me.
>
>    Doc
>

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#169990

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MI wrote on 07/11/2016 09:44 AM:
> 
> Sounds promising!
> 
> Would you share what you have in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ ? From what I had read, that is 
> where systemd would read it's tmp settings, and where it would have migrated settings 
> from rcS on upgades.
> 

[HN:tmpfiles.d] ls -al
total 20
drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 Aug 25  2015 .
drwxr-xr-x 182 root root 12288 Jul  6 18:06 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 root root   247 Aug 25  2015 tmp.conf
[HN:tmpfiles.d] cat tmp.conf
# Avoid clearing /tmp by shipping an empty /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf file
# which overrides /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf.
# This file was automatically created because of local modifications in
# /etc/default/rcS where TMPTIME was set to infinite.
[HN:tmpfiles.d]

Which is a very confusing message, but I can assure you that /tmp is
definitely NOT cleared.

> You do have a "normal" Debian Jessie with systemd, right? 

Completely vanilla Jessie except for ZFS added to support a couple of data disks.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR

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#170170

OK, so you have an empty /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf which indeed works to completely 
avoid cleaning up /tmp at reboot.

That is, it works as an equivalent to TMPTIME=-1. But I do want to cleanup /tmp, just 
with some value of TMPTIME > 0.

Anyway, thanks. It at least confirms that the /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf is indeed 
read, and does override the defaults.

MI


-------- Original Message --------
> MI wrote on 07/11/2016 09:44 AM:
>> Sounds promising!
>>
>> Would you share what you have in /etc/tmpfiles.d/ ? From what I had read, that is
>> where systemd would read it's tmp settings, and where it would have migrated settings
>> from rcS on upgades.
>>
> [HN:tmpfiles.d] ls -al
> total 20
> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 Aug 25  2015 .
> drwxr-xr-x 182 root root 12288 Jul  6 18:06 ..
> -rw-r--r--   1 root root   247 Aug 25  2015 tmp.conf
> [HN:tmpfiles.d] cat tmp.conf
> # Avoid clearing /tmp by shipping an empty /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf file
> # which overrides /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf.
> # This file was automatically created because of local modifications in
> # /etc/default/rcS where TMPTIME was set to infinite.
> [HN:tmpfiles.d]
>
> Which is a very confusing message, but I can assure you that /tmp is
> definitely NOT cleared.
>
>> You do have a "normal" Debian Jessie with systemd, right?
> Completely vanilla Jessie except for ZFS added to support a couple of data disks.
>
>    Doc
>

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#170172

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MI wrote on 07/16/2016 06:53 AM:

> 
> That is, it works as an equivalent to TMPTIME=-1. But I do want to cleanup /tmp, just 
> with some value of TMPTIME > 0.

That's what tmpreaper is for.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR

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#170174

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Am 16.07.2016 um 15:07 schrieb D. R. Evans:
> MI wrote on 07/16/2016 06:53 AM:
> 
>>
>> That is, it works as an equivalent to TMPTIME=-1. But I do want to cleanup /tmp, just 
>> with some value of TMPTIME > 0.
> 
> That's what tmpreaper is for.

tmpreaper is no longer needed or recommended under systemd.
systemd-tmpfiles already does time-based cleanup as builtin feature.


-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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#170183

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Michael Biebl wrote on 07/16/2016 07:25 AM:

> 
> tmpreaper is no longer needed or recommended under systemd.
> systemd-tmpfiles already does time-based cleanup as builtin feature.
> 

Thank you for that information (which was news to me), but in any case I would
far rather rely on a separate program to perform this job than any init system.

(I find it hard to see why this would or should be the job of an init system.
An init system can reasonably be assigned the task of deleting things at boot;
but after that I don't see that an init system has any business messing with
the files in /tmp.)

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR

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#170187

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Am 16.07.2016 um 17:07 schrieb D. R. Evans:
> Michael Biebl wrote on 07/16/2016 07:25 AM:
> 
>>
>> tmpreaper is no longer needed or recommended under systemd.
>> systemd-tmpfiles already does time-based cleanup as builtin feature.
>>
> 
> Thank you for that information (which was news to me), but in any case I would
> far rather rely on a separate program to perform this job than any init system.
> 
> (I find it hard to see why this would or should be the job of an init system.
> An init system can reasonably be assigned the task of deleting things at boot;
> but after that I don't see that an init system has any business messing with
> the files in /tmp.)

systemd-tmpfiles is a distinct binary as is tmpreaper.

We ship it as part of the systemd package because it's useful
functionality to have in a base system. Strictly speaking, the
tmpfiles.d mechanism is not tied to a particular init. It's just that
no-one has provided an implementation for non-systemd. Though we
certainly had requests already to provide that.

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=812215
-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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#170727

Michael Biebl: > Strictly speaking, the tmpfiles.d mechanism is not tied 
to a particular init. It's just that no-one has provided an 
implementation for non-systemd.

Untrue. The OpenRC people have had a tmpfiles utility since 2012.

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#170756

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Am 05.08.2016 um 09:04 schrieb Jonathan de Boyne Pollard:
> Michael Biebl: > Strictly speaking, the tmpfiles.d mechanism is not tied
> to a particular init. It's just that no-one has provided an
> implementation for non-systemd.
> 
> Untrue. The OpenRC people have had a tmpfiles utility since 2012.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
Can you post some more details? Where can I find the sources for that?
Is it packaged for Debian?

Regards,
Michael

-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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#170777

Jonathan de Boyne Pollard:
> Untrue. The OpenRC people have had a tmpfiles utility since 2012.

Michael Biebl:
> I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
> Can you post some more details? Where can I find the sources for that?
> Is it packaged for Debian?


Here's the Gentoo OpenRC repository:

* https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/openrc.git/log/sh/tmpfiles.sh.in

Here's a mirror:

* https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc

Here are the Debian packages:

* https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/openrc

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#170173

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Am 16.07.2016 um 14:53 schrieb MI:
> 
> OK, so you have an empty /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf which indeed works to
> completely avoid cleaning up /tmp at reboot.
> 
> That is, it works as an equivalent to TMPTIME=-1. But I do want to
> cleanup /tmp, just with some value of TMPTIME > 0.
> 
> Anyway, thanks. It at least confirms that the /etc/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf
> is indeed read, and does override the defaults.

Apparently you haven't seen my reply earlier. It's just a
misconfiguration on your part, you want d instead of D


-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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#169983

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Hi

Am 09.07.2016 um 17:03 schrieb MI:
> In Debian Jessie, systemd ignores the TMPTIME variable in
> /etc/default/rcS and just blindly deletes everything on every reboot.
> 
> A bug has been filed about it:  "#795269 TMPTIME not honored anymore"
> ( https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=795269 )
> 
> But I tried the suggested solution, and the files in /tmp still get
> deleted at reboot.

Just to be sure, can you attach the output of
"findmnt".

Do you have any other tmpfiles config files which might override your
custom one.
Can you attach the output of

grep "/tmp" /run/tmpfiles.d/* /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/* /etc/tmpfiles.d/*

Regards,
Michael
-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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