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What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux?

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  What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-24 20:30 +0200
    Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 20:50 +0200
      Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-05-24 21:50 +0200
        Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-24 23:20 +0200
      Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-24 22:40 +0200
      Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-25 03:10 +0200
        Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:20 +0200
        Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 11:30 +0200
          Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2016-05-25 12:00 +0200
          Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-25 17:10 +0200
        Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-05-25 15:30 +0200
          Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2016-05-26 05:50 +0200
    Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-05-25 00:10 +0200
    Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Håkon Alstadheim <hakon@alstadheim.priv.no> - 2016-05-25 02:00 +0200
    Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Joel Wirāmu Pauling <joel@aenertia.net> - 2016-05-25 03:30 +0200
      Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? Joel Wirāmu Pauling <joel@aenertia.net> - 2016-05-25 03:30 +0200
      Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-25 04:20 +0200

#168222 — What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux?

	I went to a local electronics emporium and asked for a
USB sound card that might possibly work under Linux. I have been
messing with Linux and USB long enough to know that a number of
USB sound cards mostly work well enough for one to play and
record stereo but some special features may not work without
proprietary drivers available to Windows or Mac users. These
features are usually not show stoppers so there is no real
problem.

	The only USB sound card they had was a SoundBlaster XG5
designed for the gaming market but, I thought, this is probably
pretty good and, if most everything on it works, how can you go
wrong?

	Well, here's how. Firstly, I am not bashing Creative Labs
or the product itself but this is what happens when things become
overly specialized.

	What I was looking for was a sound card which would
record stereo. They usually will play, also but recording two
line-level channels is a must.

	This is a really neat little device in that it has
optical line input and output ports and a stereo headphone output
but there is only a microphone input--(game over.)

	I did power it up and ran amixer on it to see if maybe
there is more to that Mic input than originally meets the eye but there
is actually less. There are several PCM inputs and maybe one is
the microphone but it isn't clear what each PCM channel does.
Again, if there are not two discrete analog line-level audio
inputs, it can not be used as a normal sound card.

	I rarely need to return products to a store, but I am
glad this one has a reasonable return policy because the device
is so highly specialized that there is no way to use it for
anything but playback only or as, in a game, good sound with a
Mic for one to talk over.

	Basically, are there any good new USB sound cards these
days that record and play stereo under Linux?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Martin McCormick

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#168224

Martin McCormick wrote:

> I went to a local electronics emporium and asked for a
> USB sound card that might possibly work under Linux. I have been
> messing with Linux and USB long enough to know that a number of
> USB sound cards mostly work well enough for one to play and
> record stereo but some special features may not work without
> proprietary drivers available to Windows or Mac users. These
> features are usually not show stoppers so there is no real
> problem.
> 
> The only USB sound card they had was a SoundBlaster XG5
> designed for the gaming market but, I thought, this is probably
> pretty good and, if most everything on it works, how can you go
> wrong?
> 
> Well, here's how. Firstly, I am not bashing Creative Labs
> or the product itself but this is what happens when things become
> overly specialized.
> 
> What I was looking for was a sound card which would
> record stereo. They usually will play, also but recording two
> line-level channels is a must.
> 
> This is a really neat little device in that it has
> optical line input and output ports and a stereo headphone output
> but there is only a microphone input--(game over.)
> 
> I did power it up and ran amixer on it to see if maybe
> there is more to that Mic input than originally meets the eye but there
> is actually less. There are several PCM inputs and maybe one is
> the microphone but it isn't clear what each PCM channel does.
> Again, if there are not two discrete analog line-level audio
> inputs, it can not be used as a normal sound card.
> 
> I rarely need to return products to a store, but I am
> glad this one has a reasonable return policy because the device
> is so highly specialized that there is no way to use it for
> anything but playback only or as, in a game, good sound with a
> Mic for one to talk over.
> 
> Basically, are there any good new USB sound cards these
> days that record and play stereo under Linux?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.
> 
> Martin McCormick

I suggest you check here
http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main
and try the alsa mailing list.

I would stay to the PCI cards if possible because with USB you will have
lesser speed and quality, but it is up to you.
Consider CPU and hard drive speed as well.

regards

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#168227

On Tue, 24 May 2016 20:44:59 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:


> 
> I would stay to the PCI cards if possible because with USB you will
> have lesser speed and quality, but it is up to you.
> Consider CPU and hard drive speed as well.
> 

For recording, good signal to noise ratio is important, and the four or
five internal cards I've used over the years have all been very poor in
this respect, maybe in the low 40s in dB. 

USB devices I've tried have had much less noise, particularly if the
audio ground side is linked to the tower case independently of the USB
cable.

-- 
Joe

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#168231

Joe <joe@jretrading.com> writes:
> For recording, good signal to noise ratio is important, and the four or
> five internal cards I've used over the years have all been very poor in
> this respect, maybe in the low 40s in dB.
> 
> USB devices I've tried have had much less noise, particularly if the
> audio ground side is linked to the tower case independently of the USB
> cable.

	The inside of a P.C. case is a hostile environment when
it comes to EMI (Electro-magnetic interference.)

	The worst issues I have had are ground loops between the
P.C. case and other grounded devices in which there are a few
millivolts of AC difference between the two so-called Earth
connections. That is why recording studios and broadcast stations
usually use ballanced lines for all their audio connections.

Martin

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#168229

deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> writes:
> I suggest you check here
> http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main
> and try the alsa mailing list.
> 
> I would stay to the PCI cards if possible because with USB you will have
> lesser speed and quality, but it is up to you.
> Consider CPU and hard drive speed as well.

	Quite true. I've gotten a tremendous amount of use
through Linux out of these older systems which are 15 years plus
in age so anything I put on them now should be something with use
after the mother boards let out their magic smoke one of these
days.

Martin

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#168234

deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> writes:
> I suggest you check here
> http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main
> and try the alsa mailing list.

	I did try that link and I see that, as I suspected, there
are tons of USB sound cards. My thanks also to Jude DaShiell and kon Alstadheimkfor
replies. I have also joined the alsa-user discussion list since I
realize I should probably move any more questions there and stop
bothering the debian-user list as it is primarily for helping
folks install, adjust and operate good old Debian and ubuntu
Linux. Sometimes, it is hard to tell when there is just one
problem that one or two answers can fix or a knowledge gap that
needs one to stop and learn a lot more details before moving
ahead.

	The suggestion was made to not get the cheapest card but
a card with few frills in the mid ranges which is exactly what I
had in mind, not because I can't afford a better one but what is
there is more likely to just work.

	I do have an older USB card, for instance, that is a
SoundBlaster Extigy. I bought it second-hand at a swap meet and
in Debian, it records and plays just fine but had I gotten it
new, I would have been aggravated. There is a nice slick remote
control that came with the card and the only button on it that
does anything is the Power switch that you do not ever want to
accidentally press as it turns off and your OS is very unhappy at
the sudden vaporization of the device one was writing to or
reading from. There's a nice detented knob that probably does
something in Windows such as adjust gain or balance but in
Linux, it does absolutely nothing. For Ten US Dollars, it was
okay for me but I bet it cost ten or twenty times more when brand
new. The amixer settings for Line,0 and Line,1 both turn down the
input gain on the only Line input that works. I bet that is not
what was supposed to happen, but one can certainly use it that
way.

	Anyway, thanks for all the help. It is much appreciated.

Martin

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#168240

On Wednesday 25 May 2016 02:07:30 Martin McCormick wrote:
> the debian-user list as it is primarily for helping
> folks install, adjust and operate good old Debian and ubuntu
> Linux.

No, it is NOT for Ubuntu. :-/

Lisi

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#168241

Martin McCormick wrote:

> I do have an older USB card, for instance, that is a
> SoundBlaster Extigy. I bought it second-hand at a swap meet and
> in Debian, it records and plays just fine but had I gotten it
> new, I would have been aggravated. There is a nice slick remote
> control that came with the card and the only button on it that
> does anything is the Power switch that you do not ever want to
> accidentally press as it turns off and your OS is very unhappy at
> the sudden vaporization of the device one was writing to or
> reading from.

This is a different topic - there is the remote control group -
http://www.lirc.org

I've even dared to fix few things in the kernel driver to make a remote work
properly - but it was ages ago.

I than mapped manually the keys to action in different apps.

regards

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#168243

On Wed, 25 May 2016 11:24:48 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a different topic - there is the remote control group -
> http://www.lirc.org
> 
> I've even dared to fix few things in the kernel driver to make a remote
> work properly - but it was ages ago.
> 
> I than mapped manually the keys to action in different apps.

Personally I never had to mess with the kernel, but it happened that I
had to play around with irrecord to set up a working lircd.conf file for
the remote / receiver combination in use. Usually it should even be not
much of a problem to create a working lircd.conf for a given ir-receiver
with an entirely different remote by catching the codes sent by the
remote with irrecord and then mapping these to the desired lirc events in
the lircd.conf file.

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

	"What happened to the crewman?"
	"The M-5 computer needed a new power source, the crewman merely
got in the way."
		-- Kirk and Dr. Richard Daystrom, "The Ultimate Computer",
		   stardate 4731.3.

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#168248

deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> writes:
> This is a different topic - there is the remote control group -
> http://www.lirc.org
> 
> I've even dared to fix few things in the kernel driver to make a remote 
> work
> properly - but it was ages ago.
> 
> I than mapped manually the keys to action in different apps.
> 
> regards

	Yes! I agree as I have also dabbled in interfacing
infrared remotes but the lirc project appears to be light years 
ahead of what I ever did which was to get an
Apple II to issue IR commands to a short wave radio receiver
which had an IR remote back in 1986. I got it to work but it
certainly wasn't expandable to any other system other than that
one and another made by the same company. The hardware today is
so much faster, better and cheaper when it comes to measuring
time and generating pulses of a given time which is the name of
the game when working with IR control.

	As for that sound card, I was not interested in making
the remote work, but was seeing how much of it did work the day I
first tried it out. Without lirc support, the only button that
works is the Power button so I removed the batteries and set it
aside for now as being able to shut it down by remote does much
more harm than good;).

Martin

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#168245

On Tue, 24 May 2016, Martin McCormick wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:07:30
> From: Martin McCormick <martin.m@suddenlink.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux?
> Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 01:07:45 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> writes:
>> I suggest you check here
>> http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main
>> and try the alsa mailing list.
>
> 	I did try that link and I see that, as I suspected, there
> are tons of USB sound cards. My thanks also to Jude DaShiell and kon Alstadheimkfor
> replies. I have also joined the alsa-user discussion list since I
> realize I should probably move any more questions there and stop
> bothering the debian-user list as it is primarily for helping
> folks install, adjust and operate good old Debian and ubuntu
> Linux. Sometimes, it is hard to tell when there is just one
> problem that one or two answers can fix or a knowledge gap that
> needs one to stop and learn a lot more details before moving
> ahead.
>
> 	The suggestion was made to not get the cheapest card but
> a card with few frills in the mid ranges which is exactly what I
> had in mind, not because I can't afford a better one but what is
> there is more likely to just work.
>
> 	I do have an older USB card, for instance, that is a
> SoundBlaster Extigy. I bought it second-hand at a swap meet and
> in Debian, it records and plays just fine but had I gotten it
> new, I would have been aggravated. There is a nice slick remote
> control that came with the card and the only button on it that
> does anything is the Power switch that you do not ever want to
> accidentally press as it turns off and your OS is very unhappy at
> the sudden vaporization of the device one was writing to or
> reading from. There's a nice detented knob that probably does
> something in Windows such as adjust gain or balance but in
> Linux, it does absolutely nothing. For Ten US Dollars, it was
> okay for me but I bet it cost ten or twenty times more when brand
> new. The amixer settings for Line,0 and Line,1 both turn down the
> input gain on the only Line input that works. I bet that is not
> what was supposed to happen, but one can certainly use it that
> way.
>
> 	Anyway, thanks for all the help. It is much appreciated.
>
> Martin
>
For the audiophiles, if a jack2 discussion list exists that will probably 
be another good list to join.  It could be discussion of what jack2 can 
do that alsa cannot may happen and in that happy event you'll get a 
knowledge of what to use when and why.

>

--

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#168257

Jude DaShiell wrote:
> For the audiophiles, if a jack2 discussion list exists that will probably be
> another good list to join.  It could be discussion of what jack2 can do that
> alsa cannot may happen and in that happy event you'll get a knowledge of
> what to use when and why.

JACK and JACK2 are two implementations of the same API,
so you don't need to restrict yourself to JACK2 mailing
list even if you are using JACK2.

The archlinux wiki references on JACK and ALSA are an
excellent starting point, and I would suggest going there
*before* going to the mailing list.

In short, JACK is often used for music production, where you
want to hook several components together, for example a
synth that feeds its audio outputs to a DAW.

HTH,


-- 
Joel Roth
  

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#168232

Thinkpenguin.com sells a usb sound card crystal-cs if memory serves that 
needs no proprietary drivers.

On Tue, 24 May 2016, Martin McCormick wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 14:27:38
> From: Martin McCormick <martin.m@suddenlink.net>
> To: Debian Users <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
> Subject: What Mid-range USB Sound Cards Work with Linux?
> Resent-Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 18:27:56 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> 	I went to a local electronics emporium and asked for a
> USB sound card that might possibly work under Linux. I have been
> messing with Linux and USB long enough to know that a number of
> USB sound cards mostly work well enough for one to play and
> record stereo but some special features may not work without
> proprietary drivers available to Windows or Mac users. These
> features are usually not show stoppers so there is no real
> problem.
>
> 	The only USB sound card they had was a SoundBlaster XG5
> designed for the gaming market but, I thought, this is probably
> pretty good and, if most everything on it works, how can you go
> wrong?
>
> 	Well, here's how. Firstly, I am not bashing Creative Labs
> or the product itself but this is what happens when things become
> overly specialized.
>
> 	What I was looking for was a sound card which would
> record stereo. They usually will play, also but recording two
> line-level channels is a must.
>
> 	This is a really neat little device in that it has
> optical line input and output ports and a stereo headphone output
> but there is only a microphone input--(game over.)
>
> 	I did power it up and ran amixer on it to see if maybe
> there is more to that Mic input than originally meets the eye but there
> is actually less. There are several PCM inputs and maybe one is
> the microphone but it isn't clear what each PCM channel does.
> Again, if there are not two discrete analog line-level audio
> inputs, it can not be used as a normal sound card.
>
> 	I rarely need to return products to a store, but I am
> glad this one has a reasonable return policy because the device
> is so highly specialized that there is no way to use it for
> anything but playback only or as, in a game, good sound with a
> Mic for one to talk over.
>
> 	Basically, are there any good new USB sound cards these
> days that record and play stereo under Linux?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Martin McCormick
>
>

-- 

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#168233

Den 24. mai 2016 20:27, skrev Martin McCormick:
- (see subject)
I have had good luck going to a musical-instruments store, rather than a
computer store. They know sound. Explain your intended use to them, and
they might actually understand what you want. Get a no-frills, but not
the very cheapest unit with good signal-to noise. If in doubt, bring a
smart-phone and google the brand&model&linux . Behringer has several
that work with linux out of the box.

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#168235

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Rather than going with a Consumer card. Head to a Audio/Music store. What
you are looking for is a USB - Audio interface; they generally have much
better Signal to Noise ration, hardware mixers and Ballanced XLR outputs
and Inputs. Something like the focusrite scarlet.

Alternatively if you are just after a simple DAC/AMP without Inputs - then
I throughly recommend The Cheap FIio E1 - Which can be had for around 50$
and have 96hkz/24bit DAC decoding I have several and they can be used as
just a headphone amp as well as with android.

Basically is it doesn't have an external power source or a built in battery
- then avoid it - especially if you plan on attaching it to unbalanced
speaker/desk amps. The only Consumer manufacturer dac I would consider in
this class is the Creative E5 - but it's several hundred more than the
above mentioned Fiio E1 and you only really would need it if you want
bluetooth and input options.



On 24 May 2016 at 11:27, Martin McCormick <martin.m@suddenlink.net> wrote:

>         I went to a local electronics emporium and asked for a
> USB sound card that might possibly work under Linux. I have been
> messing with Linux and USB long enough to know that a number of
> USB sound cards mostly work well enough for one to play and
> record stereo but some special features may not work without
> proprietary drivers available to Windows or Mac users. These
> features are usually not show stoppers so there is no real
> problem.
>
>         The only USB sound card they had was a SoundBlaster XG5
> designed for the gaming market but, I thought, this is probably
> pretty good and, if most everything on it works, how can you go
> wrong?
>
>         Well, here's how. Firstly, I am not bashing Creative Labs
> or the product itself but this is what happens when things become
> overly specialized.
>
>         What I was looking for was a sound card which would
> record stereo. They usually will play, also but recording two
> line-level channels is a must.
>
>         This is a really neat little device in that it has
> optical line input and output ports and a stereo headphone output
> but there is only a microphone input--(game over.)
>
>         I did power it up and ran amixer on it to see if maybe
> there is more to that Mic input than originally meets the eye but there
> is actually less. There are several PCM inputs and maybe one is
> the microphone but it isn't clear what each PCM channel does.
> Again, if there are not two discrete analog line-level audio
> inputs, it can not be used as a normal sound card.
>
>         I rarely need to return products to a store, but I am
> glad this one has a reasonable return policy because the device
> is so highly specialized that there is no way to use it for
> anything but playback only or as, in a game, good sound with a
> Mic for one to talk over.
>
>         Basically, are there any good new USB sound cards these
> days that record and play stereo under Linux?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Martin McCormick
>
>

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#168236

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

I said Fiio E1 I Meant - Q1 :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/780726/fiios-new-q1-portable-dac-amp-lets-drink-to-happy-listening

On 24 May 2016 at 18:22, Joel Wirāmu Pauling <joel@aenertia.net> wrote:

> Rather than going with a Consumer card. Head to a Audio/Music store. What
> you are looking for is a USB - Audio interface; they generally have much
> better Signal to Noise ration, hardware mixers and Ballanced XLR outputs
> and Inputs. Something like the focusrite scarlet.
>
> Alternatively if you are just after a simple DAC/AMP without Inputs - then
> I throughly recommend The Cheap FIio E1 - Which can be had for around 50$
> and have 96hkz/24bit DAC decoding I have several and they can be used as
> just a headphone amp as well as with android.
>
> Basically is it doesn't have an external power source or a built in
> battery - then avoid it - especially if you plan on attaching it to
> unbalanced speaker/desk amps. The only Consumer manufacturer dac I would
> consider in this class is the Creative E5 - but it's several hundred more
> than the above mentioned Fiio E1 and you only really would need it if you
> want bluetooth and input options.
>
>
>
> On 24 May 2016 at 11:27, Martin McCormick <martin.m@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>>         I went to a local electronics emporium and asked for a
>> USB sound card that might possibly work under Linux. I have been
>> messing with Linux and USB long enough to know that a number of
>> USB sound cards mostly work well enough for one to play and
>> record stereo but some special features may not work without
>> proprietary drivers available to Windows or Mac users. These
>> features are usually not show stoppers so there is no real
>> problem.
>>
>>         The only USB sound card they had was a SoundBlaster XG5
>> designed for the gaming market but, I thought, this is probably
>> pretty good and, if most everything on it works, how can you go
>> wrong?
>>
>>         Well, here's how. Firstly, I am not bashing Creative Labs
>> or the product itself but this is what happens when things become
>> overly specialized.
>>
>>         What I was looking for was a sound card which would
>> record stereo. They usually will play, also but recording two
>> line-level channels is a must.
>>
>>         This is a really neat little device in that it has
>> optical line input and output ports and a stereo headphone output
>> but there is only a microphone input--(game over.)
>>
>>         I did power it up and ran amixer on it to see if maybe
>> there is more to that Mic input than originally meets the eye but there
>> is actually less. There are several PCM inputs and maybe one is
>> the microphone but it isn't clear what each PCM channel does.
>> Again, if there are not two discrete analog line-level audio
>> inputs, it can not be used as a normal sound card.
>>
>>         I rarely need to return products to a store, but I am
>> glad this one has a reasonable return policy because the device
>> is so highly specialized that there is no way to use it for
>> anything but playback only or as, in a game, good sound with a
>> Mic for one to talk over.
>>
>>         Basically, are there any good new USB sound cards these
>> days that record and play stereo under Linux?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> Martin McCormick
>>
>>
>

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#168237

=?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= <joel@aenertia.net> writes:
> Rather than going with a Consumer card. Head to a Audio/Music store. What
> you are looking for is a USB - Audio interface; they generally have much
> better Signal to Noise ration, hardware mixers and Ballanced XLR outputs
> and Inputs. Something like the focusrite scarlet.
> 
> Alternatively if you are just after a simple DAC/AMP without Inputs - then
> I throughly recommend The Cheap FIio E1 - Which can be had for around 50$
> and have 96hkz/24bit DAC decoding I have several and they can be used as
> just a headphone amp as well as with android.
> 
> Basically is it doesn't have an external power source or a built in 
> battery
> - then avoid it - especially if you plan on attaching it to unbalanced
> speaker/desk amps. The only Consumer manufacturer dac I would consider in
> this class is the Creative E5 - but it's several hundred more than the
> above mentioned Fiio E1 and you only really would need it if you want
> bluetooth and input options.

The FIio E1 sounds like a great starting point. I do have
isolation transformers on each audio source so a device like this
should work with no problem at all. Thank you.

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