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OSS Versus ALSA Modules

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  OSS Versus ALSA Modules "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-18 15:00 +0200
    Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2016-05-18 17:10 +0200
      Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-18 23:20 +0200
        Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2016-05-19 00:30 +0200
          Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-19 02:00 +0200
            Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2016-05-19 11:00 +0200
    Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-05-18 17:20 +0200
    Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2016-05-21 18:00 +0200
      Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-21 20:50 +0200
        Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-05-21 22:30 +0200
          Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2016-05-22 00:40 +0200

#168010 — OSS Versus ALSA Modules

	I had a thread going on this list with the subject of
"Plug and Pray; my Life with Linux Sound." Thanks to several good
answers, I am on the right track to fixing a problem but there
is, of course, one more question.

	One must not have both OSS sound modules and ALSA sound
modules active when installing sound cards. The way you get rid
of the OSS modules is by putting a blacklist entry in
/etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base-blacklist.conf which reads:

#keep oss modules from loading.
install soundcore /bin/false

It works superbly and gets rid of all the OSS modules and also,
all the ALSA modules so now, I have no sound cards defined at all
as long as that directive is in place.

	In /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf I have many lines but 2 of them read:

alias char-major-116 snd
alias snd-card-0 snd-cs4236

Shouldn't that cause ALSA modules for that card to be pulled back
in?

	The idea is to get all the ALSA modules for the sound
cards showing up in Plug&Play but lose all the OSS modules.

By the way, having both OSS and ALSA modules cause lots of
weirdness that makes no sense at all.

Thank you.

Martin McCormick

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#168019

Hi,

On Wed, 18 May 2016 07:55:54 -0500
"Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> wrote:

(...)
> 	One must not have both OSS sound modules and ALSA sound
> modules active when installing sound cards.
(...)
> By the way, having both OSS and ALSA modules cause lots of
> weirdness that makes no sense at all.

I never had any trouble at all with the OSS compatibility modules.
Not sure where this statement comes from, if it is an old source, maybe
they meant the old, true OSS modules (which have been removed from the
linux kernel quite some time ago, though), where this was certainly true.
The snd-pcm-oss and snd-mixer-oss modules however are *not* OSS modules,
but come from ALSA and just add an OSS-compatibility layer to the ALSA
sound drivers, so that applications that rely on the presence of the OSS
devices like /dev/dsp remain usable.

> The way you get rid
> of the OSS modules is by putting a blacklist entry in
> /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base-blacklist.conf which reads:
> 
> #keep oss modules from loading.
> install soundcore /bin/false
> 
> It works superbly and gets rid of all the OSS modules and also,
> all the ALSA modules so now, I have no sound cards defined at all
> as long as that directive is in place.

If you don't want snd-pcm-oss you should blacklist snd-pcm-oss.
When you blacklist soundcore it is not much of a surprise if you get no
sound at all ;)

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

You canna change the laws of physics, Captain; I've got to have thirty
minutes!

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#168045

Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> writes:
> Hi,
> I never had any trouble at all with the OSS compatibility modules.
> Not sure where this statement comes from, if it is an old source, maybe
> they meant the old, true OSS modules (which have been removed from the
> linux kernel quite some time ago, though), where this was certainly true.

Spot on. This turned out to be out of date but I didn't realize
that at first.

> The snd-pcm-oss and snd-mixer-oss modules however are *not* OSS modules,
> but come from ALSA and just add an OSS-compatibility layer to the ALSA
> sound drivers, so that applications that rely on the presence of the OSS
> devices like /dev/dsp remain usable.
> 
> If you don't want snd-pcm-oss you should blacklist snd-pcm-oss.
> When you blacklist soundcore it is not much of a surprise if you get no
> sound at all ;)

So true. I don't appear to need to blacklist anything so I took
out that directive and basically got back to where I was
previously.

	I then tried to see what would happen if I manually
inserted snd-cs4236 using modprobe. For the first time since July
15 of last year, I got back the cs4236 and set it to Card 0. The
usb card which I have been using as Card 0 can now be card 1 and
they are both present.

	If I reboot, however, Card 1 which is the usb card
automatically returns as it should but there is no Card 0 until I
manually run

modprobe snd-cs4236

at which time it and all necessary modules for it come back.

	This is obviously not right but proves it can work.

	I wonder if there is not a race condition going on? It
sure seems to have that smell to it.

Martin

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#168049

On Wed, 18 May 2016 16:17:43 -0500
"Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> wrote:

(...)
> 	If I reboot, however, Card 1 which is the usb card
> automatically returns as it should but there is no Card 0 until I
> manually run
> 
> modprobe snd-cs4236
> 
> at which time it and all necessary modules for it come back.
> 
> 	This is obviously not right but proves it can work.
> 
> 	I wonder if there is not a race condition going on? It
> sure seems to have that smell to it.

Adding snd-cs4236 to /etc/modules doesn't help?

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

A princess should not be afraid -- not with a brave knight to protect her.
		-- McCoy, "Shore Leave", stardate 3025.3

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#168056

Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> writes:
> Adding snd-cs4236 to /etc/modules doesn't help?

Ha!! I totally forgot to look at that file. It's creation date is
in May of 2009 when I upgraded the system to whatever the version
of Linux was at that time. I am not sure it was even squeeze but
I had simply re-installed Linux from scratch at that time and the
only module in that file was loop plus a few comment lines. I put
snd_cs4236 there, rebooted and both cards showed up in the
correct order.

	I have certainly heard of /etc/modules but this is the
first time in Linux I ever needed to add a module to it. I think
it was around 2000 when I built my first Linux system so one
doesn't have to modify it often but it is wonderful that it is there.

Many thanks and I've learned a lot in the last few days

Martin

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#168064

On Wed, 18 May 2016 18:54:35 -0500
"Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> wrote:

> Many thanks and I've learned a lot in the last few days

I'm glad that things works for you now, I didn't follow this thread from
the beginning, so I hope the original problem is now solved too.

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Men will always be men -- no matter where they are.
		-- Harry Mudd, "Mudd's Women", stardate 1329.8

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#168021

If it doesn't, modprobe is reading blacklist files after whitelist files 
and this is for you and I suspect many other users highly undesireable 
and counterintuitive behavior.  Better to read and act on blacklist 
entries first then do those in whitelist and override what's necessary. 
This principle is used all the time designing firewall policies such 
that first nothing is permitted through then specific connections are 
allowed through.

On Wed, 18 May 2016, Martin McCormick wrote:

> Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 08:55:54
> From: Martin McCormick <martin.m@suddenlink.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: OSS Versus ALSA Modules
> Resent-Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 12:56:12 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> 	I had a thread going on this list with the subject of
> "Plug and Pray; my Life with Linux Sound." Thanks to several good
> answers, I am on the right track to fixing a problem but there
> is, of course, one more question.
>
> 	One must not have both OSS sound modules and ALSA sound
> modules active when installing sound cards. The way you get rid
> of the OSS modules is by putting a blacklist entry in
> /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base-blacklist.conf which reads:
>
> #keep oss modules from loading.
> install soundcore /bin/false
>
> It works superbly and gets rid of all the OSS modules and also,
> all the ALSA modules so now, I have no sound cards defined at all
> as long as that directive is in place.
>
> 	In /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf I have many lines but 2 of them read:
>
> alias char-major-116 snd
> alias snd-card-0 snd-cs4236
>
> Shouldn't that cause ALSA modules for that card to be pulled back
> in?
>
> 	The idea is to get all the ALSA modules for the sound
> cards showing up in Plug&Play but lose all the OSS modules.
>
> By the way, having both OSS and ALSA modules cause lots of
> weirdness that makes no sense at all.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Martin McCormick
>
>

-- 

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#168129

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 07:55:54AM -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
> 	I had a thread going on this list with the subject of
> "Plug and Pray; my Life with Linux Sound." Thanks to several good
> answers, I am on the right track to fixing a problem but there
> is, of course, one more question.

The subject line gave me the impression is was a rant/'blog post' style
thread rather than a problem, or something you were seeking help on.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

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#168136

cbannister@slingshot.co.nz writes:
> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 07:55:54AM -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
> >       I had a thread going on this list with the subject of
> > "Plug and Pray; my Life with Linux Sound." Thanks to several good
> > answers, I am on the right track to fixing a problem but there
> > is, of course, one more question.
> 
> The subject line gave me the impression is was a rant/'blog post' style
> thread rather than a problem, or something you were seeking help on.

I am sorry. It was a weak attempt at humor tinged with total
frustration.

	One has a pile of stuff in front of him or her that should
be good an do great things but one hooks it all together, does
reasonable things to make it work and it not only doesn't, but
there are no log tracks or anything to give a clue why the card
just vanishes after showing up as if it was going to work. One
would hope that the kernel would squawk when two sound cards
tried to occupy the same IRQ or the system couldn't find a driver
for this or that card but what often happens is that there is a
silent lapse somewhere and absolutely nothing happens no matter
what one tries.

	The second sound card was going to be a SoundBlaster
sbawe64 Gold I bought several years ago which loads all its
modules in to the kernel but in wheezy, just disappears even
with udev rules as card 1. If you swap cards 0 and 1 in the udev
rules, the SB becomes Card 0 but the CS4236 then does it's own
disappearing act. There is obviously contention of some kind
because never once have both cards listed out at the same time on
that system running wheezy. The SBAWE64 Gold is new enough that
it has no jumpers to change but somehow, either it or the CS4236
poison the well for other sound cards except USB cards. I think I
will put a usb card in and stick the SB back in a box. It works.
I can't stand getting rid of it.

	The good news was that a slightly different Dell system I
was having the same battle with is now working fine thanks to a
suggestion from this list. I had also tried that same SBAWE64
Gold on it, gave up and put a usb card on as Card 1 and it is
working like a champ.

	Again, thanks to all for all the help.

Martin

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#168138

There are log tracks if you run dmesg|grep -i snd <enter> you may find 
them.

On Sat, 21 May 2016, Martin McCormick wrote:

> Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 14:39:42
> From: Martin McCormick <martin.m@suddenlink.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: OSS Versus ALSA Modules
> Resent-Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 18:40:01 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> cbannister@slingshot.co.nz writes:
>> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 07:55:54AM -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
>>>       I had a thread going on this list with the subject of
>>> "Plug and Pray; my Life with Linux Sound." Thanks to several good
>>> answers, I am on the right track to fixing a problem but there
>>> is, of course, one more question.
>>
>> The subject line gave me the impression is was a rant/'blog post' style
>> thread rather than a problem, or something you were seeking help on.
>
> I am sorry. It was a weak attempt at humor tinged with total
> frustration.
>
> 	One has a pile of stuff in front of him or her that should
> be good an do great things but one hooks it all together, does
> reasonable things to make it work and it not only doesn't, but
> there are no log tracks or anything to give a clue why the card
> just vanishes after showing up as if it was going to work. One
> would hope that the kernel would squawk when two sound cards
> tried to occupy the same IRQ or the system couldn't find a driver
> for this or that card but what often happens is that there is a
> silent lapse somewhere and absolutely nothing happens no matter
> what one tries.
>
> 	The second sound card was going to be a SoundBlaster
> sbawe64 Gold I bought several years ago which loads all its
> modules in to the kernel but in wheezy, just disappears even
> with udev rules as card 1. If you swap cards 0 and 1 in the udev
> rules, the SB becomes Card 0 but the CS4236 then does it's own
> disappearing act. There is obviously contention of some kind
> because never once have both cards listed out at the same time on
> that system running wheezy. The SBAWE64 Gold is new enough that
> it has no jumpers to change but somehow, either it or the CS4236
> poison the well for other sound cards except USB cards. I think I
> will put a usb card in and stick the SB back in a box. It works.
> I can't stand getting rid of it.
>
> 	The good news was that a slightly different Dell system I
> was having the same battle with is now working fine thanks to a
> suggestion from this list. I had also tried that same SBAWE64
> Gold on it, gave up and put a usb card on as Card 1 and it is
> working like a champ.
>
> 	Again, thanks to all for all the help.
>
> Martin
>
>

-- 

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#168142

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
> There are log tracks if you run dmesg|grep -i snd <enter> you may find
> them.

	Not quite, but my face is still bright red. dmesg just
reports that Plug&Play found both cards but tells nothing else.
I had looked in syslog and found that dispnp also writes the same
messages there but if you search syslog for snd, there's where
you strike gold. I had been looking for words like audio, alsa,
sound and "sound card," just about every possible word except for
module names and that's where you find where things went wrong.

	The modules are found and the problem report immediately
follows so a message looks like:

May 20 03:18:58 localhost kernel: [   12.399346]
 sbawe 01:02.00: unable to assign resources
May 20 03:18:58 localhost kernel: [   12.401705] sbawe: AUDIO pnp configure failure

	In my junk box, I had an Ensoniq sound card that does
show up but is not usable due to a bad right channel as in
hardware failure. I still have the syslog file which shows
whichIRQ and DMA lines it grabbed so I may still be able to pass
those to the snd_sbawe module as parameters and convince it to
work. There is also syslog from the time I experimentally
switched the alsa-base.conf entries so I might learn something
from reading that.

	I amnot sure what resources are exhausted but there are
now more trails to follow. Thank you.

Martin McCormick

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