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Debian rescue CD oddities

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  Debian rescue CD oddities Ross Boylan <rossboylan@stanfordalumni.org> - 2015-11-20 20:20 +0100
    Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Chris Edwards <cedwards.debian@cedwards.geek.nz> - 2015-11-20 20:50 +0100
    Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-20 21:00 +0100
      Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-11-20 21:20 +0100
      Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Ross Boylan <rossboylan@stanfordalumni.org> - 2015-11-20 21:20 +0100
        Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-20 22:50 +0100
        Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 23:00 +0100
        Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 01:10 +0100
          Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:10 +0100
            Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Ross Boylan <rossboylan@stanfordalumni.org> - 2015-11-21 19:10 +0100
              Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Ross Boylan <rossboylan@stanfordalumni.org> - 2015-11-21 22:10 +0100
          Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 23:40 +0100
            Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 00:00 +0100
            Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2015-11-22 21:40 +0100
              Re: Debian rescue CD oddities John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-11-22 22:00 +0100
              Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 22:40 +0100
                Correction Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 22:50 +0100
                Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-23 00:00 +0100
                  Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-23 01:10 +0100
                    Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-23 01:40 +0100
              Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2015-11-23 20:10 +0100
                Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 23:10 +0100
                Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2015-11-24 19:50 +0100
    Re: Debian rescue CD oddities Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-11-20 21:00 +0100
      Re: Debian rescue CD oddities <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-11-20 21:10 +0100

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#160871 — Debian rescue CD oddities

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After booting the Debian 8.2 netinst iso I noticed a couple of oddities.

First, I selected advanced and rescue, but this seemed to end up walking me
through the installer.  I was expecting to be dropped into a shell.  At the
screen that asked for system name I switched virtual terminals.

Second, vgimportclone is on the system, but when I try to run it the
message is "vgimportclone: not found".  It is the only vg* command in /sbin
that is not a symlink to lvm but a shell script.

Are these behaviors expected?  Any recommendations for a rescue image that
has at least lvm, parted, and ext4 utilities?

If these are bugs, what package should I report them against?

Thanks.
Ross Boylan

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#160872

On 21/11/15 08:18, Ross Boylan wrote:
> After booting the Debian 8.2 netinst iso I noticed a couple of oddities.
>
> First, I selected advanced and rescue, but this seemed to end up walking
> me through the installer.  I was expecting to be dropped into a shell.
> At the screen that asked for system name I switched virtual terminals.


In my experience, "rescue" is a bit of a misnomer, as the toolset is 
just too rudimentary.

For practical rescue activities, I've found the "live" image is far more 
heroic. It has more utilities out of the box, and can install packages 
into the live environment for any extras you might need. I often use it 
for resizing Windows partitions I want to keep when installing Debian 
(you can install from within the live environment too).

Hope this helps,
--
Chris

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#160873

On Fri 20 Nov 2015 at 11:18:41 -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:

> After booting the Debian 8.2 netinst iso I noticed a couple of oddities.
> 
> First, I selected advanced and rescue, but this seemed to end up walking me
> through the installer.  I was expecting to be dropped into a shell.  At the
> screen that asked for system name I switched virtual terminals.

Ye of little faith; the top left-hand of the screen says "Rescue mode".

Your expectations do not accord with what Rescue mode does to prepare
the environment for accessing the installer's commands, Which should
change - your expectations or the installer?

It's a pity you didn't progress from the step asking for the hostname.

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#160877

Ross Boylan a écrit :
> So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
> rescue, not overwriting the existing system?

Even in installer mode, nothing is written on the disks until you
validate the changes in partman, the partitioning tool.

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#160878

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a more
complete system, e.g., with bash.

In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
Ross

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:

> On Fri 20 Nov 2015 at 11:18:41 -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
>
> > After booting the Debian 8.2 netinst iso I noticed a couple of oddities.
> >
> > First, I selected advanced and rescue, but this seemed to end up walking
> me
> > through the installer.  I was expecting to be dropped into a shell.  At
> the
> > screen that asked for system name I switched virtual terminals.
>
> Ye of little faith; the top left-hand of the screen says "Rescue mode".
>
> Your expectations do not accord with what Rescue mode does to prepare
> the environment for accessing the installer's commands, Which should
> change - your expectations or the installer?
>
> It's a pity you didn't progress from the step asking for the hostname.
>
>

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#160881

On Fri 20 Nov 2015 at 12:10:38 -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:

> So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
> rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
> expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a more
> complete system, e.g., with bash.

Language, keyboard, network and hardware discovery take place; the same
things which happen when actually installing. Tools to work in the
installer environment (if you choose to) are also loaded into memory.
The shell is /bin/sh whether you are in /dev/sd* or not. There is no TAB
completion, which makes things a bit tedious.

Everyone should (as "It's not a bad idea to ....) trial rescue mode in
the event is becomes necessary to use it in earnest. :)

> 
> In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.

I've never really explored a graphical approach to rescue. Maybe it's
time to.

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#160882

On Friday 20 November 2015 20:10:38 Ross Boylan wrote:
> In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.

??

Lisi

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#160884

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
> rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
> expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a more
> complete system, e.g., with bash.
> 
> In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
> Ross

Wanna bet?

-- 

Bob Holtzman
A fair fight is the result of poor planning.

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#160898

On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
> > rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
> > expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a more
> > complete system, e.g., with bash.
> >
> > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
> > Ross
>
> Wanna bet?

I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my ??).  Ross, there 
is only one Live CD.  Well, for different architectures there is more than 
one - but it sounds as though you have downloaded the wrong CD.

Lisi

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#160934

Yes; I ended up with the Debian Installer.  I think I've found the
right place now.  Of course, there's Knoppix, but the smaller image is
a bit dated.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Ross



On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 1:00 AM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
>> > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
>> > rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
>> > expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a more
>> > complete system, e.g., with bash.
>> >
>> > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
>> > Ross
>>
>> Wanna bet?
>
> I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my ??).  Ross, there
> is only one Live CD.  Well, for different architectures there is more than
> one - but it sounds as though you have downloaded the wrong CD.
>
> Lisi
>

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#160941

The Debian live CD isn't much as a rescue CD; it lacks parted and lvm,
for example.  At least the text only image I used did.  Of course, you
can install those packages after startup.

I wasn't logged in, and it took some searching to find out the right
id.  For the record it's user, with password live.  Use sudo to get to
root.  The system is running the ssh server, but it's not  configured
to accept passwords.
Ross

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Ross Boylan
<rossboylan@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
> Yes; I ended up with the Debian Installer.  I think I've found the
> right place now.  Of course, there's Knoppix, but the smaller image is
> a bit dated.
>
> Thanks everyone for your help.
>
> Ross
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 1:00 AM, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
>>> > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
>>> > rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
>>> > expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a more
>>> > complete system, e.g., with bash.
>>> >
>>> > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
>>> > Ross
>>>
>>> Wanna bet?
>>
>> I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my ??).  Ross, there
>> is only one Live CD.  Well, for different architectures there is more than
>> one - but it sounds as though you have downloaded the wrong CD.
>>
>> Lisi
>>

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#160944

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 09:00:36AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
> > > rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
> > > expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a more
> > > complete system, e.g., with bash.
> > >
> > > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
> > > Ross
> >
> > Wanna bet?
> 
> I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my ??).  Ross, there 
> is only one Live CD.  Well, for different architectures there is more than 
> one - but it sounds as though you have downloaded the wrong CD.

Gee. Can't a guy have *any* fun anymore?

-- 

Bob Holtzman
A fair fight is the result of poor planning.

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#160949

On Saturday 21 November 2015 22:37:27 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 09:00:36AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > > > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
> > > > rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
> > > > expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a
> > > > more complete system, e.g., with bash.
> > > >
> > > > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
> > > > Ross
> > >
> > > Wanna bet?
> >
> > I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my ??).  Ross,
> > there is only one Live CD.  Well, for different architectures there is
> > more than one - but it sounds as though you have downloaded the wrong CD.
>
> Gee. Can't a guy have *any* fun anymore?

Well, it felt a little unfair once there were two of us!  I had already felt 
that I had been less than fair.  Sorry. :-(  But come on, admit it. We could 
have been just a tincy* bit more helpful.  ;-)
Lisi
* https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teensy

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#161003

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:51:00PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Saturday 21 November 2015 22:37:27 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 09:00:36AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > > > > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing the
> > > > > rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to change my
> > > > > expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of it there is a
> > > > > more complete system, e.g., with bash.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live CD's.
> > > > > Ross
> > > >
> > > > Wanna bet?
> > >
> > > I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my ??).  Ross,
> > > there is only one Live CD.  Well, for different architectures there is
> > > more than one - but it sounds as though you have downloaded the wrong CD.
> >
> > Gee. Can't a guy have *any* fun anymore?
> 
> Well, it felt a little unfair once there were two of us!  I had already felt 
> that I had been less than fair.  Sorry. :-(  But come on, admit it. We could 
> have been just a tincy* bit more helpful.  ;-)
> Lisi
> * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teensy

Why do I feel like I'm back in Freshman English class? 

-- 

Bob Holtzman
A fair fight is the result of poor planning.

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#161004

Brian writes:
> It looks like it is. What functional disadvantage is it to a user of
> sysvinit or systemd?

The login terminal becomes inaccessible, messages from X are hidden, and
one of the terminals is used up.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#161006

On Sunday 22 November 2015 20:32:30 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:51:00PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Saturday 21 November 2015 22:37:27 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 09:00:36AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > > On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > > > > > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for doing
> > > > > > the rescue, not overwriting the existing system?  I'm happy to
> > > > > > change my expectation if that's the case.    Maybe by the end of
> > > > > > it there is a more complete system, e.g., with bash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian live
> > > > > > CD's. Ross
> > > > >
> > > > > Wanna bet?
> > > >
> > > > I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my ??). 
> > > > Ross, there is only one Live CD.  Well, for different architectures
> > > > there is more than one - but it sounds as though you have downloaded
> > > > the wrong CD.
> > >
> > > Gee. Can't a guy have *any* fun anymore?
> >
> > Well, it felt a little unfair once there were two of us!  I had already
> > felt that I had been less than fair.  Sorry. :-(  But come on, admit it.
> > We could have been just a tincy* bit more helpful.  ;-)
> > Lisi
> > * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teensy
>
> Why do I feel like I'm back in Freshman English class?

Not you.  When I use slightly obscure English I try to remember that I am on 
an international list and explain.  I did in fact look up "tincy" to see 
whether people could look it up for themselves, and even most of the Internet 
didn't know it.  So I referenced something that explained the meaning in 
which I had used it - which was not as a girl's name!  I used it in the first 
place because you would know it.

And Ross hadn't given any sign of having understood what either of us was on 
about.  I thought we would get an ("Oh!  Of course!")

Or maybe I just remind you of your Freshman English teacher.  ;-)  (I'm 
probably old more than enough.  Though I probably speak the wrong kind of 
English.)

Lisi

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#161007 — Correction Re: Debian rescue CD oddities

On Sunday 22 November 2015 21:38:02 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> I'm
> probably old more than enough.


"I'm probably more than old enough."

Sorry - moved some words and misread the result. :-(

Lisi

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#161013

On Sunday 22 November 2015 16:38:02 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Sunday 22 November 2015 20:32:30 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:51:00PM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Saturday 21 November 2015 22:37:27 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 09:00:36AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > > > On Friday 20 November 2015 23:23:56 Bob Holtzman wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:10:38PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > > > > > > So the operations are simply setting up an environment for
> > > > > > > doing the rescue, not overwriting the existing system? 
> > > > > > > I'm happy to change my expectation if that's the case.   
> > > > > > > Maybe by the end of it there is a more complete system,
> > > > > > > e.g., with bash.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the meantime I've downloaded the first CD of the Debian
> > > > > > > live CD's. Ross
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wanna bet?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think perhaps we should be less subtle (than this and my
> > > > > ??). Ross, there is only one Live CD.  Well, for different
> > > > > architectures there is more than one - but it sounds as though
> > > > > you have downloaded the wrong CD.
> > > >
> > > > Gee. Can't a guy have *any* fun anymore?
> > >
> > > Well, it felt a little unfair once there were two of us!  I had
> > > already felt that I had been less than fair.  Sorry. :-(  But come
> > > on, admit it. We could have been just a tincy* bit more helpful. 
> > > ;-)
> > > Lisi
> > > * https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teensy
> >
> > Why do I feel like I'm back in Freshman English class?
>
> Not you.  When I use slightly obscure English I try to remember that I
> am on an international list and explain.  I did in fact look up
> "tincy" to see whether people could look it up for themselves, and
> even most of the Internet didn't know it.  So I referenced something
> that explained the meaning in which I had used it - which was not as a
> girl's name!  I used it in the first place because you would know it.
>
> And Ross hadn't given any sign of having understood what either of us
> was on about.  I thought we would get an ("Oh!  Of course!")
>
> Or maybe I just remind you of your Freshman English teacher.  ;-) 
> (I'm probably old more than enough.  Though I probably speak the wrong
> kind of English.)
>
> Lisi

I think I knew what you meant Lisi, but on this side of the small pond we 
spell it teensy, meaning a very small quantity of something.  Like a 
pinch of salt in a recipe.  Thats normally less than a dash unless you 
shake the container really hard. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#161028

On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 05:56:35PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> I think I knew what you meant Lisi, but on this side of the small pond we 
> spell it teensy, meaning a very small quantity of something.  Like a 
> pinch of salt in a recipe.  Thats normally less than a dash unless you 
> shake the container really hard. :)

Hmmm, is that more, or less, than a 'smidgin'? :)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smidgen

It looks like a tad is larger than a dash. :)

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

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#161034

On Sunday 22 November 2015 19:00:19 Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 05:56:35PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I think I knew what you meant Lisi, but on this side of the small
> > pond we spell it teensy, meaning a very small quantity of something.
> >  Like a pinch of salt in a recipe.  Thats normally less than a dash
> > unless you shake the container really hard. :)
>
> Hmmm, is that more, or less, than a 'smidgin'? :)

I think that depends on which side of the Mason-Dixon line you hale from.  
As an old Iowa Farm raised kid, we always treated a smidgeon like it was 
about 1/4 of a pinch.

Much of this depends on one command of the language he speaks.  King of 
that category would have to be our long time United States Senator, 
Robert C. Byrd, deceased, who was past master at telling someone to go 
to hell, in such flowery language that they looked forward to the trip.

> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/smidgen
>
> It looks like a tad is larger than a dash. :)

Generally, yes.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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