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Groups > linux.debian.user > #160711 > unrolled thread

LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's

Started byRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
First post2015-11-18 01:10 +0100
Last post2015-11-23 00:40 +0100
Articles 9 on this page of 29 — 13 participants

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  LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-18 01:10 +0100
    Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-11-18 09:10 +0100
      Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-18 10:30 +0100
    Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 11:10 +0100
      Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-18 14:10 +0100
        Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 01:50 +0100
          Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-20 08:50 +0100
            Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 23:30 +0100
              Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-11-21 09:20 +0100
                Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:00 +0100
                  Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> - 2015-11-21 20:10 +0100
              Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-21 13:40 +0100
          Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-11-20 09:30 +0100
          Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-21 13:20 +0100
            Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-21 22:00 +0100
            Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 23:50 +0100
              Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-22 13:00 +0100
    Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2015-11-18 17:00 +0100
      Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-19 13:40 +0100
    Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> - 2015-11-18 18:40 +0100
      Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-18 20:20 +0100
        Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> - 2015-11-18 20:30 +0100
        Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-11-18 23:50 +0100
    Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2015-11-18 19:30 +0100
      Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2015-11-18 20:00 +0100
      Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@fsing.rootsland.net> - 2015-11-18 20:20 +0100
    Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Javi Barroso <javibarroso@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 09:10 +0100
      Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-21 12:40 +0100
    [PARTAL success]   Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-11-23 00:40 +0100

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#160766

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2015-11-18 20:20 +0100
Message-ID<qwgqR-7b9-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160757
[As I'm subscribed "Reply-To" set to debian-user 
<debian-user@lists.debian.org> ]

On 11/18/2015 11:33 AM, John L. Ries wrote:
> Which systems do you intend to dual boot?

Two configurations of Squeeze, possibly one of Jessie.

>  My understanding is
> that if one of them is Windows, you're out of luck; but you can
> always run Windows in a VM and let Linux manage the LVM file
> systems.

Windows XP runs on a dedicated machine whose functions are 
browsing and email.
Debian machines *PHYSICALLY ISOLATED* from internet "for cause" 
;/ [ don't ask ;]


>
> On Tuesday 2015-11-17 17:08, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:08:49
>> From: Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
>> To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>> Subject: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's
>>
>> In some of my reading I came across a page recommending LVM for
>> ease of adjusting space.
>>
>> When searching for more information all I'm finding are
>> essentially HOWTO's with only a couple of paragraphs on "Whats"
>> and "Whys". Essentially nothing on "Why not".
>>
>> No information on dual boot.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>

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#160768

From"John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com>
Date2015-11-18 20:30 +0100
Message-ID<qwgAz-7es-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160766
LVM should work the same way for both distros, but just in case, you might 
want to do the initial setup in Squeeze.  I don't know if anything has 
changed in the LVM format in the past 20 years, but...

--------------------------|
John L. Ries              |
Salford Systems           |
Phone: (619)543-8880 x107 |
or     (435)867-8885      |
--------------------------|


On Wed, 18 Nov 2015, Richard Owlett wrote:

> [As I'm subscribed "Reply-To" set to debian-user
> <debian-user@lists.debian.org> ]
>
> On 11/18/2015 11:33 AM, John L. Ries wrote:
>> Which systems do you intend to dual boot?
>
> Two configurations of Squeeze, possibly one of Jessie.
>
>>  My understanding is
>> that if one of them is Windows, you're out of luck; but you can
>> always run Windows in a VM and let Linux manage the LVM file
>> systems.
>
> Windows XP runs on a dedicated machine whose functions are
> browsing and email.
> Debian machines *PHYSICALLY ISOLATED* from internet "for cause"
> ;/ [ don't ask ;]
>
>
>>
>> On Tuesday 2015-11-17 17:08, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:08:49
>>> From: Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
>>> To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>>> Subject: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's
>>>
>>> In some of my reading I came across a page recommending LVM for
>>> ease of adjusting space.
>>>
>>> When searching for more information all I'm finding are
>>> essentially HOWTO's with only a couple of paragraphs on "Whats"
>>> and "Whys". Essentially nothing on "Why not".
>>>
>>> No information on dual boot.
>>>
>>> Suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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#160776

FromAndrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au>
Date2015-11-18 23:50 +0100
Message-ID<qwjI6-Vr-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160766
On 19/11/2015 6:14 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Windows XP runs on a dedicated machine whose functions are browsing and
> email.

XP -- that's dead now; lots of security issues that will never get fixed.

Do you really need Windows now?  What is it that XP does for you that
you can't do with Windows 7 or Debian?

Cheers
A.

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#160760

FromDan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org>
Date2015-11-18 19:30 +0100
Message-ID<qwfEu-6Cj-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160711
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 06:08:49PM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> In some of my reading I came across a page recommending LVM for ease
> of adjusting space.
> 
> When searching for more information all I'm finding are essentially
> HOWTO's with only a couple of paragraphs on "Whats" and "Whys".
> Essentially nothing on "Why not".
> 
> No information on dual boot.
> 
> Suggestions?

Here's why not:

LVM is a kludge.

That doesn't mean it isn't useful, but it does mean that it's
rarely the best tool.

LVM can increase the size of partitions by giving them more space on
either an empty section of disk or another disk. Either way, you
then need to increase the filesystem size on that partition,
which is usually but not always doable. It does not grant any
extra redundancy, so when you add an extra disk, you have
increased your chances of hardware failure taking out data.

LVM can snapshot a partition, so that you can back it up or
go back in time. Doing so is more complex, hairy, and
time-consuming in LVM than in most alternatives, and should
usually be avoided.

LVM can do RAID mirroring, but not as well as mdadm RAID1 or 10.

LVM can do RAID striping, but not as well as mdadm RAID0 or 10.

LVM can do RAID5 or 6, but it takes more thought than with
mdadm, and most people should avoid RAID5 or 6 most of the time.

If you need to move things around once in a while, having a nice
big disk available to use as a spare and copying things with
rsync and dd is going to be easier.

If you need to move things around a lot, you might want btrfs or
zfs instead of lvm.

If you don't need to move things around much, but just want
performance, mdadm is better.

-dsr-

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#160763

FromSteve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
Date2015-11-18 20:00 +0100
Message-ID<qwg7w-6Nq-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160760
dsr@randomstring.org wrote:
>
>Here's why not:
>
>LVM is a kludge.

Not at all, no. LVM *as a concept* has been around for ages in a lot
of enterprise systems. The Linux implementation using device-mapper
works reasonably well and provides a lot of features that people use a
lot.

>That doesn't mean it isn't useful, but it does mean that it's
>rarely the best tool.
>
>LVM can increase the size of partitions by giving them more space on
>either an empty section of disk or another disk. Either way, you
>then need to increase the filesystem size on that partition,
>which is usually but not always doable. It does not grant any
>extra redundancy, so when you add an extra disk, you have
>increased your chances of hardware failure taking out data.
>
>LVM can snapshot a partition, so that you can back it up or
>go back in time. Doing so is more complex, hairy, and
>time-consuming in LVM than in most alternatives, and should
>usually be avoided.
>
>LVM can do RAID mirroring, but not as well as mdadm RAID1 or 10.
>
>LVM can do RAID striping, but not as well as mdadm RAID0 or 10.
>
>LVM can do RAID5 or 6, but it takes more thought than with
>mdadm, and most people should avoid RAID5 or 6 most of the time.
>
>If you need to move things around once in a while, having a nice
>big disk available to use as a spare and copying things with
>rsync and dd is going to be easier.
>
>If you need to move things around a lot, you might want btrfs or
>zfs instead of lvm.
>
>If you don't need to move things around much, but just want
>performance, mdadm is better.

Or, do what lots of people do: use mdadm to provide the redundancy /
striping at the disk level, then use LVM on top of the mdadm-provided
RAID devices to give the flexibility with snapshots, flexible
partitioning, etc. As/when you need to migrate data, vgextend and
pvmove are massively useful tools. In my experience, pvmove makes a
huge difference - you can move data at ~raw disk speed from old disks
to new without downtime.

To Richard: LVM is never going to work with a dual-boot system unless
you're hosting that system virtually under Linux. It's just like
Windows' own multi-disc flexible storage stuff isn't going to work
with anybody else. If that's an issue for you, then either stay away
from LVM or make sure you have some spare space that's available for
sharing between the different OSes using a common filesystem.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out
 whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast."
 Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html

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#160765

FromStephan Seitz <stse+debian@fsing.rootsland.net>
Date2015-11-18 20:20 +0100
Message-ID<qwgqR-7b9-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160760

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 01:29:01PM -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
>LVM is a kludge.

Not at all.

>LVM can increase the size of partitions by giving them more space on
>either an empty section of disk or another disk. Either way, you

Yes.

>then need to increase the filesystem size on that partition,
>which is usually but not always doable. It does not grant any

You can resize an ext3 or ext4 partition online without downtime.

I’m doing this quite often with virtual hosts.
- Oh, the partition is getting too small in the VM
- Add a new disk to the VM, hotplug feature
- Add the new disk to the LVM partition
- Resize the filesystem
- Finished and no downtime

This is working with Debian and SLES.

>If you need to move things around a lot, you might want btrfs or
>zfs instead of lvm.

I consider btrfs still experimental. Maybe I will try it in one year, and 
zfs seems to be only available in a fuse implemention.

I prefer ext4 and ext3.

Shade and sweet water!

	Stephan

-- 
| Stephan Seitz          E-Mail: stse@fsing.rootsland.net |
| Public Keys: http://fsing.rootsland.net/~stse/keys.html |

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#160892

FromJavi Barroso <javibarroso@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-21 09:10 +0100
Message-ID<qxbp7-2Bs-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160711
Hello,

El 18 de noviembre de 2015 1:08:49 CET, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> escribió:
>In some of my reading I came across a page recommending LVM for 
>ease of adjusting space.
>
>When searching for more information all I'm finding are 
>essentially HOWTO's with only a couple of paragraphs on "Whats" 
>and "Whys". Essentially nothing on "Why not".
>
>No information on dual boot.
>
>Suggestions?

See the wikipedia, it has useful infotmation:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux)

For dual boot, as said on the list,i think windows cannot read lvm.

But if you dont want share data between both, you can create a boot partition, then an windows partition, and a lvm extended partition. And install linux on the lvm partition

Regards

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#160906

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2015-11-21 12:40 +0100
Message-ID<qxeGm-4EV-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160892
On 11/21/2015 2:06 AM, Javi Barroso wrote:
> Hello,
>
> El 18 de noviembre de 2015 1:08:49 CET, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> escribió:
>> In some of my reading I came across a page recommending LVM for
>> ease of adjusting space.
>>
>> When searching for more information all I'm finding are
>> essentially HOWTO's with only a couple of paragraphs on "Whats"
>> and "Whys". Essentially nothing on "Why not".
>>
>> No information on dual boot.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>
> See the wikipedia, it has useful information:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux)

*EXTREMELY USEFUL* link, but not quite in manner intended <chuckle>.
After I got ~3/4 of the way thru it something began to look familiar.
Saw the content before as 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux).
NOTE BENE en.m.wikipedia.org/... versus en.wikipedia.org/...
The "mobile" format of Wikipedia removes visual noise of the 
"desktop" format.
I found myself following more links in the "mobile" format and 
getting more out of each link.

>
> For dual boot, as said on the list,i think windows cannot read lvm.

Not an issue. I'll multi boot among versions and configurations 
of Debian. The medium term goal is understanding what I want from 
an OS ;)

>
> But if you don't want share data between both, you can create a boot partition, then an windows partition, and a lvm extended partition. And install linux on the lvm partition
>
> Regards
>
>

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#161020 — [PARTAL success] Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2015-11-23 00:40 +0100
Subject[PARTAL success] Re: LVM info - OTHER than HOWTO's
Message-ID<qxMoG-2bB-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#160711
On 11/17/2015 6:08 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> In some of my reading I came across a page recommending LVM for
> ease of adjusting space.
>
> When searching for more information all I'm finding are
> essentially HOWTO's with only a couple of paragraphs on "Whats"
> and "Whys". Essentially nothing on "Why not".
>

I've found samples of outlook I was looking for:
 
http://www.standalone-sysadmin.com/blog/2008/09/introduction-to-lvm-in-linux/
 
http://www.standalone-sysadmin.com/blog/2008/11/more-lvm-information/

Useful information might be in 
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html .

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