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Groups > linux.debian.user > #160013 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-10-31 12:00 +0100 |
| Last post | 2015-11-03 20:30 +0100 |
| Articles | 9 on this page of 69 — 25 participants |
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Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-10-31 12:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-10-31 12:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 12:50 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-10-31 13:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 14:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 16:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 16:30 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 17:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 17:30 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 19:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-02 17:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 20:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 00:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-02 20:50 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:30 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 20:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 20:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-31 17:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-11-02 17:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 18:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-11-02 20:10 +0100
How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?) Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 15:40 +0100
Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?) Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 15:40 +0100
Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?) Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?) kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 16:30 +0100
[SOLVED] How to identify obsolete packages Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 17:40 +0100
Re: [SOLVED] How to identify obsolete packages kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 04:50 +0100
Re: [SOLVED] How to identify obsolete packages Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2015-11-01 21:40 +0100
Re: How to identify obsolete packages (was: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?) Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2015-10-31 18:30 +0100
Re: How to identify obsolete packages Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> - 2015-10-31 20:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-31 17:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2015-10-31 20:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Javi Barroso <javibarroso@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 21:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 21:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Javi Barroso <javibarroso@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 00:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-01 02:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-01 14:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-10-31 20:50 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-10-31 22:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-10-31 23:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-11-03 23:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Tim McDonough <tmcdonough@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 22:30 +0100
Re: minimal installation (was: Anybody know why...) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-31 23:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 23:50 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-11-01 01:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Alex Moonshine <moonshine@openmailbox.org> - 2015-11-02 08:50 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-11-02 09:50 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-11-02 11:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 12:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 12:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 13:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 16:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 21:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-11-03 00:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 01:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 01:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-11-03 10:10 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-11-02 14:30 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> - 2015-11-02 20:50 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-03 05:00 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-11-03 04:40 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Glenn English <ghe@slsware.net> - 2015-11-03 16:20 +0100
Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-11-03 20:30 +0100
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| From | Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 01:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqxb4-3mP-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160143 |
On Monday 02 November 2015 23:33:19 Brian wrote: > The form of words doesn't matter. It is out of place and unhelpful to > comment on the physical capabilities of a participant on a list of this > nature, especially as a way of countering a argument. To repeat: you > have no knowledge of how easy or hard I find reading a computer screen > to be or the speed I do it with. "would appear" are weasel words to > cover this lack of knowledge. If you did not criticise others for not being able to do everything you can do, then your capabilities or lack of them would be irrelevant.
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| From | Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 01:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqxb4-3mP-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160143 |
On Monday 02 November 2015 23:33:19 Brian wrote: > I can wiggle both my ears at the same time. :) I didn't notice that. Now that _is_ an accomplishment. :-) Lisi
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| From | Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 10:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqFLk-Gf-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160145 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:58:32 +0000
Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I can wiggle both my ears at the same time. :)
> I didn't notice that. Now that _is_ an accomplishment. :-)
I can wiggle one at a time...
Cheers,
Ron.
--
Pain is life,
and death is when the pain goes away.
-- Keith Roberts
-- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-02 14:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqnln-5Pq-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160092 |
On Monday 02 November 2015 04:33:01 Rick Thomas wrote: > On Nov 2, 2015, at 12:45 AM, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote: > >> To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers > >> needed to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with > >> apt-get, just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to > >> me that having bare minimum to start with and adding things you > >> need from there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things > >> than having several tools with the same function and having to get > >> rid of one. So a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the > >> thinking behind the initial approach. > > > > Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any > > system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet > > sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without > > mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly, > > a desktop system other than a minimalist one should include > > Synaptic. > > > > -- > > Joe > > +1 for Joe. > > Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the > simple step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or > alternatively requiring all the helpful folks who posted those > step-by-step instructions to go back and modify them… That’s not what > I’d call “newbie friendly”. > > Rick +2 for Joe. And because synaptic uses some x fancies that aren't available to root if exec'd with a sudo, there is synaptic-pkexec, which asks you for you user pw and then runs normally on your x-sessions screen IF you are allowed to sudo. Why this is such a closely held secret, I have NDI. I see it as a way to discourage its use, when IMO, its the best package-manager out there. Aptitude? A major PITA everytime I am forced to relearn it. It may be capable, but it its for sure not intuitive. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-02 20:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqth8-VK-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160092 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
And if you're installing X, then it's reasonable for Synaptic and other GUI admin tools to be part of the default setup. Those who prefer lower level tools and who know enough for that to be a good decision will know how to uninstall what they don't want or need and should have the privilege of doing so (unnecessary dependencies are bad). --------------------------| John L. Ries | Salford Systems | Phone: (619)543-8880 x107 | or (435)867-8885 | --------------------------| On Mon, 2 Nov 2015, Rick Thomas wrote: > > On Nov 2, 2015, at 12:45 AM, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote: > >>> To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers needed >>> to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with apt-get, >>> just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to me that >>> having bare minimum to start with and adding things you need from >>> there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things than having >>> several tools with the same function and having to get rid of one. So >>> a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the thinking behind >>> the initial approach. >> >> Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any >> system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet >> sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without >> mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly, a >> desktop system other than a minimalist one should include Synaptic. >> >> -- >> Joe > > +1 for Joe. > > Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the simple step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or alternatively requiring all the helpful folks who posted those step-by-step instructions to go back and modify them… That’s not what I’d call “newbie friendly”. > > Rick >
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| From | Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 05:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqAVk-5NO-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160138 |
[Please don't top post on the debian-user mailing list.] On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 12:34:49PM -0700, John L. Ries wrote: > And if you're installing X, then it's reasonable for Synaptic and other GUI > admin tools to be part of the default setup. I use fvwm, I definitely don't want Synaptic and other GUI admin tools to be installed when I install X. Now, if by X, you actually mean a desktop, then sure, there could be a gui-admin-tools meta package which is pulled in by the desktop meta package. At least, that way, people who know what they are doing don't have to clean up the mess, they didn't want in the first place. > Those who prefer lower level > tools and who know enough for that to be a good decision will know how to > uninstall Sorry, that seems illogical to me. The reason I actually use Debian, is so that I don't have to jump through hoops after an install. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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| From | Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 04:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqABX-5Gc-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160090 |
On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 08:45:27AM +0000, Joe wrote: > Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any > system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. If a newcomer can't figure out apt-get install, then they'd probably be better off with Ubuntu or Linux Mint. Intelligent Googling will get you the answers to most things. :) AFAIR, Debian has never been intended to be a distro for complete newcomers, so trying to get a hammer to bang in a screw can have unfortunate consequences, which I propose is not to redesign the screw to act more like a nail! -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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| From | Glenn English <ghe@slsware.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 16:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqLxq-4or-87@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160147 |
> On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 08:45:27AM +0000, Joe wrote: >> Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any >> system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. One reason is that the Aptitude semi-GUI hauls in a lot of libraries and dependencies and stuff. That fills up the 5MB ST-506 disk Debian was designed for :-) But 'apt-get install aptitude<CR>' as root at a terminal/console will get it for you. If you don't have apt-get, something went wrong in the install. Try it again. I spent quite a while in RPM-hell before I learned enough to install Debian, and I've still got lots to learn. Hang in there. It's worth the trouble. But stay away from Sid, aka GuaranteedBugs. Stable is (probably) what you need. Stable doesn't have the bells and whistles and bleeding edge software that Sid does, but it works good. A newcomer doesn't need 'surprises'. -- Glenn English
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 20:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qqPrk-6ZQ-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #160176 |
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:58:24 -0700 Glenn English <ghe@slsware.net> wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 08:45:27AM +0000, Joe wrote: > >> Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any > >> system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. > > One reason is that the Aptitude semi-GUI hauls in a lot of libraries > and dependencies and stuff. That fills up the 5MB ST-506 disk Debian > was designed for :-) That's why I said 'not in the base system'. It is the merest drop in the ocean in a desktop system of a few GB, which is what a newcomer would be comfortable with. > > But 'apt-get install aptitude<CR>' as root at a terminal/console will > get it for you. If you don't have apt-get, something went wrong in > the install. Try it again. As I said, I've been doing that for some years now, when working up from a minimal stable netinstall. Sudo isn't there to start with, either. I was a beginner once, and I've been a beginner at many things over the years. I've always been glad of all the help I could get on that first ascent of the foothills of the learning curve. > > I spent quite a while in RPM-hell before I learned enough to install > Debian, and I've still got lots to learn. Hang in there. It's worth > the trouble. > > But stay away from Sid, aka GuaranteedBugs. Stable is (probably) what > you need. Stable doesn't have the bells and whistles and bleeding > edge software that Sid does, but it works good. A newcomer doesn't > need 'surprises'. > I do indeed use stable for my server, and wouldn't consider anything else. But on my desktop and mobiles, it's unstable, and has been for more than a decade. Somebody has to help clean up the next stable, and I can live with the occasional 'beyond repair' hiccup, as I have other computers and all my data is on my server. With backups, before anyone puts finger to keyboard. -- Joe
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