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System craches when browsing a web site

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  System craches when browsing a web site Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr> - 2015-10-26 16:50 +0100
    Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 17:30 +0100
      Re: System craches when browsing a web site Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr> - 2015-10-26 23:40 +0100
        Re: System craches when browsing a web site Glenn English <ghe@slsware.net> - 2015-10-27 02:50 +0100
          Re: System craches when browsing a web site Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> - 2015-10-27 02:50 +0100
            Re: System craches when browsing a web site Glenn English <ghe@slsware.net> - 2015-10-27 07:50 +0100
              Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 08:50 +0100
            Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 08:50 +0100
          Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 08:50 +0100
          Re: System craches when browsing a web site Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-10-28 08:00 +0100
    Re: System craches when browsing a web site Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2015-10-26 18:30 +0100
      Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 23:50 +0100
    Re: System craches when browsing a web site moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-10-27 06:20 +0100
      Re: System craches when browsing a web site Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr> - 2015-10-27 09:20 +0100
        Re: System craches when browsing a web site "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-10-27 11:20 +0100
    Re: System craches when browsing a web site Peter Ludikovsky <peter@ludikovsky.name> - 2015-10-27 09:40 +0100
      Re: System craches when browsing a web site Himanshu Shekhar <irm2015006@iiita.ac.in> - 2015-10-27 10:00 +0100
      Re: System craches when browsing a web site Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr> - 2015-10-27 10:10 +0100
        Re: System craches when browsing a web site Peter Ludikovsky <peter@ludikovsky.name> - 2015-10-27 14:40 +0100
          Re: System craches when browsing a web site Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2015-10-27 20:50 +0100
            Re: System craches when browsing a web site Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-10-28 04:00 +0100
              Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-28 12:00 +0100
              Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-28 16:00 +0100
          Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 23:00 +0100
          Re: System craches when browsing a web site Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 23:00 +0100
            Re: System craches when browsing a web site Peter Ludikovsky <peter@ludikovsky.name> - 2015-10-28 07:50 +0100

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#159805 — System craches when browsing a web site

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Dear All,

I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany browser, and
each time it makes my hole system crash. Only poweroff/poweron can recover.
https://www.blinq.com/

While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features and craches,
I don't understand that the system itself craches. I was not even bean able to
user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm using 16GiB ram + 32MiB swap, so I
don't think this is memory issue.

Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?

PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.
-- 
Cheers,
Abou Al Montacir

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#159808

On Monday 26 October 2015 15:40:10 Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany browser,
> and each time it makes my hole system crash. Only poweroff/poweron can
> recover. https://www.blinq.com/
>
> While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features and
> craches, I don't understand that the system itself craches. I was not even
> bean able to user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm using 16GiB ram +
> 32MiB swap, so I don't think this is memory issue.
>
> Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
>
> PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.

Really, just to acknowledge your email, since I can't say anything helpful.  I 
had no difficulty opening https://www.blinq.com/, but I haven't got epiphany 
installed.

Lisi

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#159826

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Hi Lisi,
Thanks for answering!
Yes I can browse that website using iceweasel without any issue. But It happens
I use epiphany as primary browser and don't ask me why I use such a bad browser,
I just don't like mozilla products!
Now The issue is not that epiphany craches, this I can understand any
application has some bugs, but that the whole systems freezes, I think this is
not Linux way! I expect a sigsegv or any other nice kernel reaction, but not
have a frozen system due to a bad application. Linux kernel used to be so robust
that even a bad kernel driver was not able to froze it.
That is the reason for this mail, I consider this a "general" issue but want
just to confirm before filling that bug report.
What fellow users think?
-- 
Cheers,
Abou Al Montacir

On Mon, 2015-10-26 at 16:22 +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Monday 26 October 2015 15:40:10 Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany browser,
> > and each time it makes my hole system crash. Only poweroff/poweron can
> > recover. https://www.blinq.com/
> >
> > While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features and
> > craches, I don't understand that the system itself craches. I was not even
> > bean able to user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm using 16GiB ram +
> > 32MiB swap, so I don't think this is memory issue.
> >
> > Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
> >
> > PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.
> 
> Really, just to acknowledge your email, since I can't say anything helpful.  I
> had no difficulty opening https://www.blinq.com/, but I haven't got epiphany 
> installed.
> 
> Lisi

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#159829

On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr> wrote:

> What fellow users think?

Toss the sucker and get one that works. There are billions and billions of browsers around. Even some that aren't Microsoft or Mozilla :-)

And, no, Debian shouldn't do more than complain mildly when the browser has a problem -- Debian stable has been bulletproof in my experience. But if a connection error isn't being handled by the browser that tried to make the connection, the browser was designed and written by folks who made one or more big mistakes. Unless something really interesting is going on in Debian's IP stack.

I hear that Google's Chromium works or Opera, to name a couple biggies.

You really don't need this. And the fix is (probably) simple.

-- 
Glenn English

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#159830

> I hear that Google's Chromium works or Opera, to name a couple biggies.

Both of them are non-free (Chromium has at least unclearly licensed 
code). We have many free as in freedom browsers. I have used Iceweasel 
since I use Debian and I have never had any problems with it but only 
very occasionally minor annoyances (no software is perfect yet).

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#159838

On Oct 26, 2015, at 7:43 PM, Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> wrote:

>> I hear that Google's Chromium works or Opera, to name a couple biggies.
> 
> Both of them are non-free

Good point, well taken. But OP doesn't like Mozilla for some reason. Chromium is at least free as in beer; and last I heard, so was Opera. Privoxy'll do a good job for any of them getting rid of the popups and stuff.

I guess he could go the KDE route. I think that's free in both senses, and their browser is reliable. There are most likely others as well, but I was trying to point the poor guy toward something that works. On Debian (stable, at least), there's no excuse for significantly broken software. (It turns up from time to time, but there's no excuse for it :-)

-- 
Glenn English

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#159839

On Tuesday 27 October 2015 06:39:42 Glenn English wrote:
> On Oct 26, 2015, at 7:43 PM, Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> 
wrote:
> >> I hear that Google's Chromium works or Opera, to name a couple biggies.
> >
> > Both of them are non-free
>
> Good point, well taken. But OP doesn't like Mozilla for some reason.
> Chromium is at least free as in beer; and last I heard, so was Opera.
> Privoxy'll do a good job for any of them getting rid of the popups and
> stuff.
>
> I guess he could go the KDE route. I think that's free in both senses, and
> their browser is reliable. There are most likely others as well, but I was
> trying to point the poor guy toward something that works. On Debian
> (stable, at least), there's no excuse for significantly broken software.
> (It turns up from time to time, but there's no excuse for it :-)

Forwarded to unsubscribed OP

Lisi

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#159841

On Tuesday 27 October 2015 01:43:14 Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> > I hear that Google's Chromium works or Opera, to name a couple biggies.
>
> Both of them are non-free (Chromium has at least unclearly licensed
> code). We have many free as in freedom browsers. I have used Iceweasel
> since I use Debian and I have never had any problems with it but only
> very occasionally minor annoyances (no software is perfect yet).

Forwarded to unsubscribed OP.

Lisi

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#159840

On Tuesday 27 October 2015 01:39:58 Glenn English wrote:
> On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr> 
wrote:
> > What fellow users think?
>
> Toss the sucker and get one that works. There are billions and billions of
> browsers around. Even some that aren't Microsoft or Mozilla :-)
>
> And, no, Debian shouldn't do more than complain mildly when the browser has
> a problem -- Debian stable has been bulletproof in my experience. But if a
> connection error isn't being handled by the browser that tried to make the
> connection, the browser was designed and written by folks who made one or
> more big mistakes. Unless something really interesting is going on in
> Debian's IP stack.
>
> I hear that Google's Chromium works or Opera, to name a couple biggies.
>
> You really don't need this. And the fix is (probably) simple.

Forwarded to unsubscribed OP.

Lisi

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#159888

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 07:39:58PM -0600, Glenn English wrote:
> 
> On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr> wrote:
> 
> > What fellow users think?

He did ask to be CC'd, your post has fallen on deaf ears.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

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#159814

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On Mon, 2015-10-26 at 16:40 +0100, Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany
> browser, and
> each time it makes my hole system crash. Only poweroff/poweron can
> recover.
> https://www.blinq.com/

I get an error "Problem displaying blinq.com", but no crashes or
freezes in Epiphany.

> While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features
> and craches,
> I don't understand that the system itself craches. I was not even
> bean able to
> user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm using 16GiB ram + 32MiB
> swap, so I
> don't think this is memory issue.
> 
> Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
> 
> PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.

This is not, or at least not just, a problem in Epiphany. A freeze like
this is almost always a kernel or driver bug. Epiphany is just
triggering the bug.

Hard to say what exactly is the best way to track it down. If you have
another system handy, being logged in through SSH and examining the
system while the freeze happens might be a start. 

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5

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#159827

Forwarded to OP.

Lisi
On Monday 26 October 2015 17:20:10 Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> On Mon, 2015-10-26 at 16:40 +0100, Abou Al Montacir wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany
> > browser, and
> > each time it makes my hole system crash. Only poweroff/poweron can
> > recover.
> > https://www.blinq.com/
>
> I get an error "Problem displaying blinq.com", but no crashes or
> freezes in Epiphany.
>
> > While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features
> > and craches,
> > I don't understand that the system itself craches. I was not even
> > bean able to
> > user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm using 16GiB ram + 32MiB
> > swap, so I
> > don't think this is memory issue.
> >
> > Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
> >
> > PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.
>
> This is not, or at least not just, a problem in Epiphany. A freeze like
> this is almost always a kernel or driver bug. Epiphany is just
> triggering the bug.
>
> Hard to say what exactly is the best way to track it down. If you have
> another system handy, being logged in through SSH and examining the
> system while the freeze happens might be a start.

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#159836

On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:40:10 +0100, Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr>
wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany browser,
> and each time it makes my hole system crash. Only poweroff/poweron can
> recover. https://www.blinq.com/
> 
> While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features and
> craches, I don't understand that the system itself craches. I was not even
> bean able to user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm using 16GiB ram +
> 32MiB swap, so I don't think this is memory issue.
> 
> Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
> 
> PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.

Use a different web browser maybe? Blinq opens fine for me, under both Chromium
and Iceweasel. What version of Debian are you running?

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#159842

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On Tue, 2015-10-27 at 08:15 +0300, moxalt wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:40:10 +0100, Abou Al Montacir <abou.almontacir@sfr.fr>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear All,
> > 
> > I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany browser,
> > and each time it makes my hole system crash. Only poweroff/poweron can
> > recover. https://www.blinq.com/
> > 
> > While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features and
> > craches, I don't understand that the system itself craches. I was not even
> > bean able to user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm using 16GiB ram +
> > 32MiB swap, so I don't think this is memory issue.
> > 
> > Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
> > 
> > PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.
> 
> Use a different web browser maybe? Blinq opens fine for me, under both
> Chromium
> and Iceweasel. What version of Debian are you running?
Yes that may be a solution  to browse the page, but this is not my real problem.
My problem is how it happens that a user program make a Linux system freeze.
That was a main reason for me to stop using other OS!
-- 
Cheers,
Abou Al Montacir

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#159848

Hi,

> epiphany browser [...] makes my hole system crash.

It should not.


> My problem is how it happens that a user program make a Linux system freeze.

First thing to test is whether it is a crash or a freeze
of the desktop.

If you have a network with a second computer then log into
the problem machine via SSH, provoke the crash-or-freeze,
and check whether the SSH connection still reacts on the Enter
key.

In any case have a look into the system log after you rebooted,
whether there are any interesting messages from immediately
before the reboot. (File /var/log/messages , command dmesg.)

>From remote i'd say it must be a co-operation of a few entities
out of the set { browser, desktop, X server, Linux kernel }.
Since epihany is part of GNOME dektop, i would file the bug
against GNOME, unless the system log shows messages which point
to a kernel problem.

Try whether the problem appears in XFCE as well (which uses less
of the GNOME stuff than GNOME does).
If you want to exclude GNOME desktop as culprit, find a desktop
which does not use GLib. To my mind come twm and my personal
favorite fvwm2.
(The latter suffers from zero-configuration in its Debian package.
 You would need to find some minimal .fvwm2rc template to put into
 your $HOME directory. Like:
   http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article70/fvwm2rc.html
 )


I would have few hope for a remedy in Debian, though.

If you are courageous enough, follow the newest development
of GLib and its companions and watch whether the problem
vanishes suddenly.


> a main reason for me to stop using other OS!

Well, several desktops want to look and feel like other OS.
This has the expectable consequences.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#159844

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

This is not a bug with Debian in particular, but with Epiphany in
general. I could reproduce a similar behaviour, but managed to kill
the browser process before the system became completely unresponsive.

I suggest you file a bug report with the Gnome team:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=epiphany

Regards,
/peter

Am 26.10.2015 um 16:40 schrieb Abou Al Montacir:
> Dear All,
> 
> I tried to browse the following site multiple times using epiphany 
> browser, and each time it makes my hole system crash. Only 
> poweroff/poweron can recover. https://www.blinq.com/
> 
> While I can understand that epiphany does not support some features
> and craches, I don't understand that the system itself craches. I
> was not even bean able to user ctrl+alt+F1 to kill the process. I'm
> using 16GiB ram + 32MiB swap, so I don't think this is memory
> issue.
> 
> Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
> 
> PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.
> 
> -- Cheers, Abou Al Montacir
> 
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#159845

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

To me, w3m seems to be the best way to check whether there is a connection
problem or not.
Bugs if any should be reported at the earliest.

Regards,
Himanshu Shekhar

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#159846

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On Tue, 2015-10-27 at 09:38 +0100, Peter Ludikovsky wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This is not a bug with Debian in particular, but with Epiphany in
> general. I could reproduce a similar behaviour, but managed to kill
> the browser process before the system became completely unresponsive.
> 
> I suggest you file a bug report with the Gnome team:
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=epiphany
> 

Thank Peter for you answer and you test.
I fully understand that there is a bug in epiphany browser and that one shall be
reported both against the package as I consider this serious and against the
upstream bugzilla.
That is not the point I want to discuss, but rather shall I open a bug against
general as the system is supposed to be robust enough against any buggy user
program. This particular capability of Unixes system that make it possible for
multiple users to share the same computer, but also for the same user to ensure
no program is jeopardizing the others.
Isn't Linux kernel supposed to care about this kind of issues? In the past I
knew that if a program was trying to allocate too much memory, more that what
the system could, it used to get a segmentation fault, or similar signals, if a
program enters an infinite while loop it get anyway preempted to let other
thread run... All the nice features that make one migrate from a popular OS to a
nice one!
> > 
> > Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
> > 
> > PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.
> > 
> > 


-- 
Cheers,
Abou Al Montacir

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#159851

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

I've looked into that issue a bit futher, and as far as I can test
within the confines of a VM I can say that
1) I can still access the TTYs and
2) the OOM killer removes the offending process as soon as both RAM
and Swap is full. Since your Swap is rather large it takes a long time
to fill up, during which time the system constantly has to swap in and
out programs you might be using.

Aside from the obvious issue here you've apparently made a conscious
effort to switch the system browser, as Debian by default installs
Iceweasel, not Epiphany. That means it's not a combination that the
Debian QA team had high on their list of priorities.

Why is that important? You lament that you switched to Debian from
another OS because you wanted stability. Given the high number of
different DEs, browsers, mail clients, chat programs, ... in any given
distribution the QA team can only test certain combinations, and make
those as stable as possible. Since the browser from the GNOME project
isn't included with the GNOME default install I'd wager it was
exchanged because of bugs like this.

But the system stability didn't suffer. The OOM killer removes the
offending browser process once the memory is used up, and the system
doesn't die. Once that happens, everything else is back to normal.
Even a bug in the GUI can't (usually) kill the whole system.

If you really want to protect yourself from issues like that in the
future, either switch to a better maintained browser (Iceweasel is the
default for Debian for example) and/or set a hard memory limit through
limits.conf or control groups.

Regards,
/peter


Am 27.10.2015 um 10:05 schrieb Abou Al Montacir:
> On Tue, 2015-10-27 at 09:38 +0100, Peter Ludikovsky wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> This is not a bug with Debian in particular, but with Epiphany
>> in general. I could reproduce a similar behaviour, but managed to
>> kill the browser process before the system became completely
>> unresponsive.
>> 
>> I suggest you file a bug report with the Gnome team: 
>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=epiphany
>> 
>>> 
> Thank Peter for you answer and you test.
> 
> I fully understand that there is a bug in epiphany browser and that
> one shall be reported both against the package as I consider this
> serious and against the upstream bugzilla.
> 
> That is not the point I want to discuss, but rather shall I open a
> bug against general as the system is supposed to be robust enough
> against any buggy user program. This particular capability of
> Unixes system that make it possible for multiple users to share the
> same computer, but also for the same user to ensure no program is
> jeopardizing the others.
> 
> Isn't Linux kernel supposed to care about this kind of issues? In
> the past I knew that if a program was trying to allocate too much
> memory, more that what the system could, it used to get a
> segmentation fault, or similar signals, if a program enters an
> infinite while loop it get anyway preempted to let other thread
> run... All the nice features that make one migrate from a popular
> OS to a nice one!
>>> Can you please advise if I need to fill a bug against general?
>>> PS: Please copy me as I'm not subscribed.
> 
> -- Cheers, Abou Al Montacir
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#159863

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, 2015-10-27 at 14:30 +0100, Peter Ludikovsky wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've looked into that issue a bit futher, and as far as I can test
> within the confines of a VM I can say that
> 1) I can still access the TTYs and
> 2) the OOM killer removes the offending process as soon as both RAM
> and Swap is full. Since your Swap is rather large it takes a long
> time
> to fill up, during which time the system constantly has to swap in
> and
> out programs you might be using.

Very interesting. I retried loading the page in Epiphany and noticed
this in the terminal:

 radeon: mmap failed, errno: 12

Trying to get a backtrace with gdb resulted in an X crash, so that page
is doing something WebKit or Epiphany doesn't like at all.

I filed a bug here, to start with:

 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757213

Only tried 3.16.3 so far, would be interesting to know how it works
with 3.14 and 3.18, and other browsers using WebKit.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5

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