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Re: System Dorked -- Help!

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  Re: System Dorked -- Help! "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-10-25 10:10 +0100
    Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) David Baron <d_baron@012.net.il> - 2015-10-25 12:00 +0100
      Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 13:30 +0100
      Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-10-25 13:30 +0100
        Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) David Baron <d_baron@012.net.il> - 2015-10-25 14:00 +0100
          Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 16:20 +0100
            Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) David Baron <d_baron@012.net.il> - 2015-10-25 16:40 +0100
              Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-25 17:40 +0100
          Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2015-10-25 17:40 +0100
          Re: bootloader customization (was: System Dorked -- Help...) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-25 19:00 +0100
            Re: bootloader customization (was: System Dorked -- Help...) moxalt <moxalt@riseup.net> - 2015-10-27 07:40 +0100

#159753 — Re: System Dorked -- Help!

Hi,

> Tried appending "single" to other commands.

Is this LILO related ? (Or what other commands, exactly ?)
It is not easy to imagine what you see and try.


> Took my root password which implies my  users and
> passwords are intact!

The recognition of user and password relies on a very small
part of the system. When i was younger, it was file /etc/passwd.
The file still exists, but i would have to start research
whether it still is the master and not some copy of some
other user id data base.


> Anything higher-level I tried to do there segfaulted.

This is not explainable by some missing files.
A SIGSEGV happens in the CPU and needs a bad memory address
to be used by a program for data access.

Causes i can imagine:

- Damaged program or library files.
  Since everything fails, it would probably be some central
  library like libc.

- Loading and executing of libraries for another operating system
  or CPU architecture. Maybe the guards which normally prevent
  mismatch produce it by themselves.

- Defective hardware.
  Bad RAM, CPU, or mainboard are known to cause SIGSEGV for
  no software reason. But typically that either makes everything
  impossible or happens only under heavy load.
  Selective and reliable failure is rather not hardware style.
  Did i get it right that Live Linuxes do work properly on
  the machine in question ?


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#159756 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

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Using the live disk, went back to the old (failing!) 80gig disk, edited 
back to where I was, bound the /dev and chroot and mounted what I 
needed.
update-initramfs and lilo worked without any segfault.

So back up. Time to buy another big disk and move stuff or reinstall 
with Jesse. Trouble is these big SATAs are not so great. That 80gig 
IDE which smart claims is pre-failure (but does not totally support) 
predates them all.

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#159758 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:57 PM, David Baron <d_baron@012.net.il> wrote:
> Using the live disk, went back to the old (failing!) 80gig disk, edited back
> to where I was, bound the /dev and chroot and mounted what I needed.
>
> update-initramfs and lilo worked without any segfault.

Up until here, I'm sort-of following you.

> So back up. Time to buy another big disk and move stuff or reinstall with
> Jesse. Trouble is these big SATAs are not so great. That 80gig IDE which
> smart claims is pre-failure (but does not totally support) predates them
> all.

Now I'm lost. Sorry, try that again?

What exactly about which big SATAs is not so great?

What does predating have to do with your present quandary?

And, BTW, I forgot to mention, if you've configured your boot based on
/dev/sda, etc., go back and configure based on UUIDs. That should make
things a lot less liable to go boom when you play with cabling. (And
watch where you put the masters and slaves if you are playing with
parallel ATA.)

You'll want to read the

    man blkid

and note that the command is in /sbin, so you may need to supply the full path:

    /sbin/blkid

to get the UUIDs of your drives.

If you're thinking of buying a new HD, do so, install the OS on the
new drive, get it running, and then hook the old drives up and copy
/home and parts of /etc and whatever else.

I think dpkg --list on the system as it is will help you figure out
what packages to install with the new OS.

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html

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#159759 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

On Sunday 25 October 2015 06:57:06 David Baron wrote:

> Using the live disk, went back to the old (failing!) 80gig disk,
> edited back to where I was, bound the /dev and chroot and mounted what
> I needed.
> update-initramfs and lilo worked without any segfault.
>
> So back up. Time to buy another big disk and move stuff or reinstall
> with Jesse. Trouble is these big SATAs are not so great. That 80gig
> IDE which smart claims is pre-failure (but does not totally support)
> predates them all.

Another thought comes to mind since you mentioned a big disk, but I don't 
recall the size if it has been quoted in this thread.

But In installing linuxcnc (debian wheezy based) on fresh disks, I have 
twice now been forced to allocate a /boot partition at the beginning of 
a 2 terabyte disk.

This may not be the reason, but my theory is that by the time the install 
gets around to installing grub, (its the last thing it does) its boot 
files are too far into the disk for bios/lilo/grub2 to find them, so the 
reboot at the end of the install fails. 

The worst part of that is that the partitioner will not accept a 1 
gigabyte partition, which is a great plenty, so I was forced to use 5% 
of the disk as a boot partition.

That is about 47 gigabytes, of which <1% is actually used.  Ridiculous, 
but it works.  Those 3 machines would be happy as clams with a 20 
gigabyte disk.  Even SSD's are bigger than that these days.

So I am left wondering if this might be a solution to your boot problem.

lilo has been out of favor for a goodly piece of a decade, and with even 
grub1 being far more versatile, I am amazed to hear of someone still 
using it.  I have no clue what its LBA capabilities are in light of the 
sizes of todays drives.

If someone could elaborate on that, it might also be of educational value 
here.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#159760 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

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On Sunday 25 October 2015 08:19:41 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 25 October 2015 06:57:06 David Baron wrote:
> > Using the live disk, went back to the old (failing!) 80gig disk,
> > edited back to where I was, bound the /dev and chroot and mounted what
> > I needed.
> > update-initramfs and lilo worked without any segfault.
> > 
> > So back up. Time to buy another big disk and move stuff or reinstall
> > with Jesse. Trouble is these big SATAs are not so great. That 80gig
> > IDE which smart claims is pre-failure (but does not totally support)
> > predates them all.
> 
> Another thought comes to mind since you mentioned a big disk, but I don't
> recall the size if it has been quoted in this thread.
> 
> But In installing linuxcnc (debian wheezy based) on fresh disks, I have
> twice now been forced to allocate a /boot partition at the beginning of
> a 2 terabyte disk.
> 
> This may not be the reason, but my theory is that by the time the install
> gets around to installing grub, (its the last thing it does) its boot
> files are too far into the disk for bios/lilo/grub2 to find them, so the
> reboot at the end of the install fails.
> 
> The worst part of that is that the partitioner will not accept a 1
> gigabyte partition, which is a great plenty, so I was forced to use 5%
> of the disk as a boot partition.
> 
> That is about 47 gigabytes, of which <1% is actually used.  Ridiculous,
> but it works.  Those 3 machines would be happy as clams with a 20
> gigabyte disk.  Even SSD's are bigger than that these days.
> 
> So I am left wondering if this might be a solution to your boot problem.
> 
> lilo has been out of favor for a goodly piece of a decade, and with even
> grub1 being far more versatile, I am amazed to hear of someone still
> using it.  I have no clue what its LBA capabilities are in light of the
> sizes of todays drives.
> 
> If someone could elaborate on that, it might also be of educational value
> here.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I started with wheezy 64 bit install and grub2. Did not have any clue how it worked but it did. 
When upgraded to Sid, added a kernel and wanted to keep the older on around just-in-case, I 
had no idea how to do this with Grub2 so I went back to Lilo. Lilo also makes it easy of have a 
systemd and older-style init choice, the latter saved me recently.

Running afoul of having two 1 terra disks around could have been the problem. I have no 
understanding of this business. I had no problem reading and writing the partition I wanted to 
make root. Just could not do anything in it, either chroot or on boot into the system which 
malfunctioned.

How do I make custom boot menus, kernel, init choices and such using the Grub?

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#159766 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 9:53 PM, David Baron <d_baron@012.net.il> wrote:
> On Sunday 25 October 2015 08:19:41 Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>> On Sunday 25 October 2015 06:57:06 David Baron wrote:
>
>> > Using the live disk, went back to the old (failing!) 80gig disk,
>
>> > edited back to where I was, bound the /dev and chroot and mounted what
>
>> > I needed.
>
>> > update-initramfs and lilo worked without any segfault.
>
>> >
>
>> > So back up. Time to buy another big disk and move stuff or reinstall
>
>> > with Jesse. Trouble is these big SATAs are not so great. That 80gig
>
>> > IDE which smart claims is pre-failure (but does not totally support)
>
>> > predates them all.
>
>>
>
>> Another thought comes to mind since you mentioned a big disk, but I don't
>
>> recall the size if it has been quoted in this thread.
>
>>
>
>> But In installing linuxcnc (debian wheezy based) on fresh disks, I have
>
>> twice now been forced to allocate a /boot partition at the beginning of
>
>> a 2 terabyte disk.
>
>>
>
>> This may not be the reason, but my theory is that by the time the install
>
>> gets around to installing grub, (its the last thing it does) its boot
>
>> files are too far into the disk for bios/lilo/grub2 to find them, so the
>
>> reboot at the end of the install fails.
>
>>
>
>> The worst part of that is that the partitioner will not accept a 1
>
>> gigabyte partition, which is a great plenty, so I was forced to use 5%
>
>> of the disk as a boot partition.
>
>>
>
>> That is about 47 gigabytes, of which <1% is actually used. Ridiculous,
>
>> but it works. Those 3 machines would be happy as clams with a 20
>
>> gigabyte disk. Even SSD's are bigger than that these days.
>
>>
>
>> So I am left wondering if this might be a solution to your boot problem.
>
>>
>
>> lilo has been out of favor for a goodly piece of a decade, and with even
>
>> grub1 being far more versatile, I am amazed to hear of someone still
>
>> using it. I have no clue what its LBA capabilities are in light of the
>
>> sizes of todays drives.
>
>>
>
>> If someone could elaborate on that, it might also be of educational value
>
>> here.
>
>>
>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
>
>
> I started with wheezy 64 bit install and grub2. Did not have any clue how it
> worked but it did. When upgraded to Sid, added a kernel and wanted to keep
> the older on around just-in-case, I had no idea how to do this with Grub2 so
> I went back to Lilo. Lilo also makes it easy of have a systemd and
> older-style init choice, the latter saved me recently.
>
>
>
> Running afoul of having two 1 terra disks around could have been the
> problem. I have no understanding of this business. I had no problem reading
> and writing the partition I wanted to make root. Just could not do anything
> in it, either chroot or on boot into the system which malfunctioned.
>
>
>
> How do I make custom boot menus, kernel, init choices and such using the
> Grub?

Heh. For just updating the kernel, it's automatic in Wheezy and
beyond. but for other purposes, it's a real riot. You might want to
stay with lilo for the time being.

But you do want to look closely at what Gene suggests about the
location of your kernel.

How big is your boot or root partition? (Is it separate?) If you have
only one partition, that's likely to explain a lot of what's
happening, including your observation that large SATA disks seem to
fail too quickly.

(Unless you are operating at temperature extremes, or in extremely
dusty or humid environments, SATA disks should not fail especially
fast. But a kernel update ending up stored beyond BIOS read limits
could make them appear to fail.)

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html

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#159768 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

> * * *
> > How do I make custom boot menus, kernel, init choices and such using the
> > Grub?
> 
> Heh. For just updating the kernel, it's automatic in Wheezy and
> beyond. but for other purposes, it's a real riot. You might want to
> stay with lilo for the time being.
> 
> But you do want to look closely at what Gene suggests about the
> location of your kernel.
> 
> How big is your boot or root partition? (Is it separate?) If you have
> only one partition, that's likely to explain a lot of what's
> happening, including your observation that large SATA disks seem to
> fail too quickly.
Point is that I installed with separate partitions and the installer gave me 
ridiculously sized partitions. When I wanted two kernels around, I had to move 
to the current partition on the old  80gigger

Here is part of df:
/dev/sdb2        9949448    443728   8977268   5% /
/dev/sda5        8518920   7303804    759336  91% /usr
/dev/sda9      942340652 137805424 756643980  16% /opt
/dev/sda8         368615      2106    342957   1% /tmp
/dev/sda6        2817056   2408016    246224  91% /var

/dev/sda9 is really home. I have /opt (and also usr/local)  bound to home 
because of so much extra space there and shortage elsewhere. The cache part of 
/var is symlinked also to a folder on home. Otherwise, I would be absolutely 
crippled.

The other one terra disk, most of which is not damaged, would provide lots of 
place for a proper /usr and /var, but after the last adventure, what can I do?
 
> 
> (Unless you are operating at temperature extremes, or in extremely
> dusty or humid environments, SATA disks should not fail especially
> fast. But a kernel update ending up stored beyond BIOS read limits
> could make them appear to fail.)

??

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#159769 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

David Baron composed on 2015-10-25 17:29 (UTC+0200):

> after the last adventure, what can I do?

Partition in advance of starting any installer. It's your machine. You get to
have it your way if you take the trouble to make it so. There's no good
excuse to get stuck with illogical partition allocations no matter how big or
small the disk.

I never use an OS installer's partitioner for anything more than selecting
which partitions to mount where. I always have the sizes I want, located
where I want them, before installation begins.

With a virgin or wiped HD, I typically boot Knoppix to do the partitioning,
which is comprised in every case of 3 (very) small primary partitions at the
front of the disk, regardless what operating systems will be installed.
Typically I make one or two FAT and the other EXT2, or two EXT2 and one FAT.
Everything OS goes in logicals. If I will have no other FAT partitions, the
first logical is made Linux swap. The primaries are homes for bootloaders,
Grub Legacy on EXT2, and whatever Windows, OS/2 or DOS wants on FAT (which
newer Windows versions typically convert to NTFS).

MBR here is always legacy/BIOS/DOS/Windows compatible. Only after I have Grub
working from an EXT2 primary do I begin any OS installation. Linux
bootloaders installed by distro installers here always go on / partitions.
Consequently, no installation gets an opportunity to corrupt any other
installation's ability to boot.

All installations on my own machines are multiboot. Consequently, whenever an
installation manages to become unbootable, it's a simple matter to boot
something else to perform repairs, no need to hunt for suitable rescue CD,
DVD or stick. Because of using standard MBR code, the worst thing a Windows
installation will do is move the boot flag, simple to move again from
anything that will boot, so it doesn't matter when or if Windows or anything
else needs ever to be re-installed.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#159770 — Re: System Dorked -- Help! (Interim solution!)

On Sunday 25 October 2015 08:53:00 David Baron wrote:

> On Sunday 25 October 2015 08:19:41 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 October 2015 06:57:06 David Baron wrote:
> > > Using the live disk, went back to the old (failing!) 80gig disk,
> > > edited back to where I was, bound the /dev and chroot and mounted
> > > what I needed.
> > > update-initramfs and lilo worked without any segfault.
> > >
> > > So back up. Time to buy another big disk and move stuff or
> > > reinstall with Jesse. Trouble is these big SATAs are not so great.
> > > That 80gig IDE which smart claims is pre-failure (but does not
> > > totally support) predates them all.
> >
> > Another thought comes to mind since you mentioned a big disk, but I
> > don't recall the size if it has been quoted in this thread.
> >
> > But In installing linuxcnc (debian wheezy based) on fresh disks, I
> > have twice now been forced to allocate a /boot partition at the
> > beginning of a 2 terabyte disk.
> >
> > This may not be the reason, but my theory is that by the time the
> > install gets around to installing grub, (its the last thing it does)
> > its boot files are too far into the disk for bios/lilo/grub2 to find
> > them, so the reboot at the end of the install fails.
> >
> > The worst part of that is that the partitioner will not accept a 1
> > gigabyte partition, which is a great plenty, so I was forced to use
> > 5% of the disk as a boot partition.
> >
> > That is about 47 gigabytes, of which <1% is actually used. 
> > Ridiculous, but it works.  Those 3 machines would be happy as clams
> > with a 20 gigabyte disk.  Even SSD's are bigger than that these
> > days.
> >
> > So I am left wondering if this might be a solution to your boot
> > problem.
> >
> > lilo has been out of favor for a goodly piece of a decade, and with
> > even grub1 being far more versatile, I am amazed to hear of someone
> > still using it.  I have no clue what its LBA capabilities are in
> > light of the sizes of todays drives.
> >
> > If someone could elaborate on that, it might also be of educational
> > value here.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I started with wheezy 64 bit install and grub2. Did not have any clue
> how it worked but it did. When upgraded to Sid, added a kernel and
> wanted to keep the older on around just-in-case, I had no idea how to
> do this with Grub2 so I went back to Lilo. Lilo also makes it easy of
> have a systemd and older-style init choice, the latter saved me
> recently.
>
> Running afoul of having two 1 terra disks around could have been the
> problem. I have no understanding of this business. I had no problem
> reading and writing the partition I wanted to make root. Just could
> not do anything in it, either chroot or on boot into the system which
> malfunctioned.
>
> How do I make custom boot menus, kernel, init choices and such using
> the Grub?

Thats a question I'll have to let others answer.  All 4 of my machines 
here are running "pinned" kernels, which have been patched for real time 
interrupts, AKA "RTAI", so I don't worry about a scripted rerun of 
grub-install wiping out the hacks I have installed directly 
into /boot/grub/grub.cfg.

That however is frowned on mightily here, and someone will drag out his 
soap box and read me a few verses of the riot act, for exactly that 
reason.  I.W.F.M. though.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#159772 — Re: bootloader customization (was: System Dorked -- Help...)

David Baron composed on 2015-10-25 14:53 (UTC+0200):

> I started with wheezy 64 bit install and grub2. Did not have any clue how it worked but it did. 
> When upgraded to Sid, added a kernel and wanted to keep the older on around just-in-case, I 
> had no idea how to do this with Grub2 so I went back to Lilo. Lilo also makes it easy of have a 
> systemd and older-style init choice, the latter saved me recently.

> Running afoul of having two 1 terra disks around could have been the problem. I have no 
> understanding of this business. I had no problem reading and writing the partition I wanted to 
> make root. Just could not do anything in it, either chroot or on boot into the system which 
> malfunctioned.

> How do I make custom boot menus, kernel, init choices and such using the Grub?

There are numerous www howtos for customizing Grub2.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1296225 amounts to one such.

Customizing Grub Legacy is much simpler.
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/legacy/grub.html#Installing-GRUB-natively
explains setting it up simply.

http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/menu.lst can serve as a menu.lst template
based on how things work here. Note in its lower section there are special
stanzas used only for network installations. I don't download many iso files.
It's wasteful of bandwidth to download so much that will only be used at most
once. There are no hard dependencies on configs elsewhere located when using
Grub Legacy, but do note that Debian's Grub Legacy still cannot read EXT4
filesystems at least as of Jessie, so its use should be limited accordingly
either to systems on which EXT4 isn't present, or to needing access only to
EXT3 or EXT2 or older supported filesystems. Grub Legacy in Mageia, Fedora
and openSUSE have no such limitation. I use openSUSE's, as it has a nice
gfxboot configuration that's simple enough to use and customize, and
extremely friendly at boot time.

Should you wish to try Grub Legacy, I'll be more than happy to assist.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#159837 — Re: bootloader customization (was: System Dorked -- Help...)

On Sun, 25 Oct 2015 13:52:06 -0400, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:

> David Baron composed on 2015-10-25 14:53 (UTC+0200):
> 
> > I started with wheezy 64 bit install and grub2. Did not have any clue how
> > it worked but it did. When upgraded to Sid, added a kernel and wanted to
> > keep the older on around just-in-case, I had no idea how to do this with
> > Grub2 so I went back to Lilo. Lilo also makes it easy of have a systemd and
> > older-style init choice, the latter saved me recently.  
> 
> > Running afoul of having two 1 terra disks around could have been the
> > problem. I have no understanding of this business. I had no problem reading
> > and writing the partition I wanted to make root. Just could not do anything
> > in it, either chroot or on boot into the system which malfunctioned.  
> 
> > How do I make custom boot menus, kernel, init choices and such using the
> > Grub?  
> 
> There are numerous www howtos for customizing Grub2.
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1296225 amounts to one such.
> 
> Customizing Grub Legacy is much simpler.
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/legacy/grub.html#Installing-GRUB-natively
> explains setting it up simply.
> 
> http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/menu.lst can serve as a menu.lst template
> based on how things work here. Note in its lower section there are special
> stanzas used only for network installations. I don't download many iso files.
> It's wasteful of bandwidth to download so much that will only be used at most
> once. There are no hard dependencies on configs elsewhere located when using
> Grub Legacy, but do note that Debian's Grub Legacy still cannot read EXT4
> filesystems at least as of Jessie, so its use should be limited accordingly
> either to systems on which EXT4 isn't present, or to needing access only to
> EXT3 or EXT2 or older supported filesystems. Grub Legacy in Mageia, Fedora
> and openSUSE have no such limitation. I use openSUSE's, as it has a nice
> gfxboot configuration that's simple enough to use and customize, and
> extremely friendly at boot time.
> 
> Should you wish to try Grub Legacy, I'll be more than happy to assist.

I used GRUB Legacy (one of the 0.99~ releases) under Debian 7, and it worked
fine reading from ext4.

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