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smartphone forum for the technically-oriented

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  smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-17 00:00 +0200
    Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented dean <deanshannon3@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 03:10 +0200
      Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-17 03:50 +0200
        Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-10-17 05:00 +0200
        Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-10-17 14:30 +0200
      Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2015-10-17 19:20 +0200
        Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-17 19:30 +0200
          Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2015-10-17 21:00 +0200
            Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-10-17 21:20 +0200
              Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2015-10-18 16:50 +0200
                Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2015-10-18 19:30 +0200
                Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-18 22:00 +0200
                  Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2015-10-19 02:40 +0200
          Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2015-10-17 21:30 +0200
            Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-17 21:50 +0200
              Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2015-10-17 22:30 +0200
                Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-17 23:40 +0200
                  Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2015-10-18 12:20 +0200
                  Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Petter Adsen <petter@synth.no> - 2015-10-18 12:20 +0200
                Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 00:10 +0200
                  Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-18 01:20 +0200
              Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-10-18 01:30 +0200
                Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-18 02:50 +0200
                  Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-10-18 14:20 +0200
                    Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Himanshu Shekhar <irm2015006@iiita.ac.in> - 2015-10-18 14:40 +0200
                      Debian on netbooks: was Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 15:20 +0200
                        Re: Debian on netbooks: was Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 15:30 +0200
                      Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 16:40 +0200
                      Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2015-10-18 16:40 +0200
                      Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2015-10-18 16:40 +0200
    Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2015-10-17 15:40 +0200
      Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-17 19:20 +0200
        Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented deloptes <deloptes@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-17 19:40 +0200
          Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Terence <terence.john@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 09:30 +0200
            Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-18 10:10 +0200
              Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Terence <terence.john@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 10:10 +0200
        Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-10-17 21:50 +0200
          Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented rlharris@oplink.net - 2015-10-17 22:10 +0200
            Re: smartphone forum for the technically-oriented Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-10-17 23:10 +0200

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#159283 — smartphone forum for the technically-oriented

I would like to find something like a smartphone discussion list for the
technically-oriented -- not for the "Isn't Siri marvelous?" crowd.  I am
interested in liabilities regarding security and privacy, rather than in
features.

I spend much time on the highway, and Internet access (to view a map, to
search for a telephone number, and even now and then GoogleEarth) would be
valuable.

So I need to see what is available by way of a smartphone, or perhaps a
tablet computer.  Is there anything small which can run Debian?

Russ

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#159293

On 10/17/15 07:49, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> I would like to find something like a smartphone discussion list for the
> technically-oriented -- not for the "Isn't Siri marvelous?" crowd.  I am
> interested in liabilities regarding security and privacy, rather than in
> features.
> 
> I spend much time on the highway, and Internet access (to view a map, to
> search for a telephone number, and even now and then GoogleEarth) would be
> valuable.
> 
> So I need to see what is available by way of a smartphone, or perhaps a
> tablet computer.  Is there anything small which can run Debian?
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
What kind of smart phone?

If its android there are apps that can run debian in a chroot eg lildebi
and if you want the most from your phone I recommend installing
cyanogenmod - that gives you a lot more control over your phone.

If your talking about apple, your options are very limited...

Dean

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#159295

On Fri, October 16, 2015 8:02 pm, dean wrote:
> What kind of smart phone?

That is what I wish to learn.

If samsung televisions have a microphone, what surveillance should we
expect of a samsung smartphone which has both microphone and camera?
Instinctively, I distrust microsoft and apple.  Besides, with apple you
are paying also for a status symbol.  And is microsoft capable of writing
better software for a phone than it writes for a desktop?

I am looking for guidance as to which smartphones provide reasonable
privacy and security.  Of course, reliability and battery life are very
important.

An article I saw a week or so ago said that samsung has one of the best
antenna systems, because it is designed to direct radio-frequency energy
away from the head of the user.


> If its android there are apps that can run debian in a chroot
> eg lildebi and if you want the most from your phone I recommend
> installing cyanogenmod - that gives you a lot more control over
> your phone.

Modifying the operating systim is a realm with which I am not familiar,
and likely do not have sufficient time to explore.

What I thought might be a good alternative to a smart phone would be to
use my old flip-open phone for voice calls and get a cellular modem which
can interface with the ethernet port or usb port of a laptop or tablet. 
Then if I can find a computer which is much less bulky than the typical
laptop, I could run Debian on that for Internet access on the road.  But a
typical laptop is entirely too big to be used in a car.

Russ

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#159297

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 08:38:29PM -0500, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On Fri, October 16, 2015 8:02 pm, dean wrote:
> > What kind of smart phone?
> 
> That is what I wish to learn.
> 
> If samsung televisions have a microphone, what surveillance should we
> expect of a samsung smartphone which has both microphone and camera?

I'm not sure, but I have heard to keep the camera view unobstructed at
all times.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

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#159314

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Hash: SHA256

Hi,

Okay, well I think *you* are on the right track; many people will give
away waaayyyyy too much data using their mobile spy machines ;-)
  - just ask Richard Stallman for one.

On 17/10/2015 12:38 PM, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On Fri, October 16, 2015 8:02 pm, dean wrote:
>> What kind of smart phone?
> 
> That is what I wish to learn.

My view is that the best you can do is get a device that supports all
the telephone network bands that you expect might be useful to you.
That device should then serve as a WiFi hotspot which you secure
appropriately.  Perhaps you want a router that takes a more "dumb" USB
type dongle for the modem; perhaps like a Netgear WNDR-3700 running
openwrt or similar

http://www.ofmodemsandmen.com/downloads.html


> If samsung televisions have a microphone, what surveillance should 
> we expect of a samsung smartphone which has both microphone and 
> camera? Instinctively, I distrust microsoft and apple.  Besides, 
> with apple you are paying also for a status symbol.  And is 
> microsoft capable of writing better software for a phone than it 
> writes for a desktop?
> 
> I am looking for guidance as to which smartphones provide 
> reasonable privacy and security.  Of course, reliability and 
> battery life are very important.

Too true.  Smartphones and Smart TVs are, well, sometimes much too
smart to use safely if you want privacy and security.  Xbox Kinnect?
Everyone wants their devices to be spy capable... why???? Sure there
are advantages, but I don't think they outweigh the cons.


Of course, whatever device you use to get Internet access, it's
location will be given away by the telco that provides the Internet
service at the very least.

> An article I saw a week or so ago said that samsung has one of the 
> best antenna systems, because it is designed to direct 
> radio-frequency energy away from the head of the user.

Reference?

>> If its android there are apps that can run debian in a chroot eg 
>> lildebi and if you want the most from your phone I recommend 
>> installing cyanogenmod - that gives you a lot more control over 
>> your phone.
> 
> Modifying the operating systim is a realm with which I am not 
> familiar, and likely do not have sufficient time to explore.

You my want to reconsider, perhaps a download of a custom ROM,
something that protects your privacy and security better than a stock RO
M.

> What I thought might be a good alternative to a smart phone would 
> be to use my old flip-open phone for voice calls and get a
> cellular modem which can interface with the ethernet port or usb
> port of a laptop or tablet. Then if I can find a computer which is
> much less bulky than the typical laptop, I could run Debian on that
> for Internet access on the road.  But a typical laptop is entirely
> too big to be used in a car.

There are plenty of 3G/4G/LTE type routers around, it then matters
what OS they run and what ports are available as well as how good are
the radios.

I've long considered that the best option for a "mobile" phone would
be to have a device that ONLY operates as a WiFi enabled device,
perhaps bluetooth as well, but the range should definitely be very
short.  Use a separate unit for telco signal -- and that talks only to
your devices, including the WiFi only phone (like your flip-phone
idea), but with even less risk of exposure.  You may even use an
ordinary cordless VoIP device -- one that uses WiFi to connect to the
Internet via the router, you can port phone numbers to VoIP services
... it may depend on the number you want to port though, it needs to
be "port-able".

Kind Regards
AndrewM
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#159328

dean wrote:
> On 10/17/15 07:49, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
>> I would like to find something like a smartphone discussion list for the
>> technically-oriented -- not for the "Isn't Siri marvelous?" crowd.  I am
>> interested in liabilities regarding security and privacy, rather than in
>> features.
>>
>>
regarding the discussion list question - it's funny, but the technically 
knowledgeable folks re. smartphones,
all seem to be on forums
I used to find crackberry.com very useful, their android counterpart is 
androidcentral.com
androidforums is pretty useful
for iPhones, I expect the community forums on apple.com are useful

for email lists, there are some lists for Android developers - search on 
"xda" - but, again, you'll find more forums than lists

there is, also, of course, stackexchange - for very specific, technical 
questions

Miles Fidelman


-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra

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#159330

On Sat, October 17, 2015 12:15 pm, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>>> I would like to find something like a smartphone discussion list for
>>> the technically-oriented -- not for the "Isn't Siri marvelous?" crowd.
> regarding the discussion list question - it's funny, but the technically
> knowledgeable folks re. smartphones, all seem to be on forums I used to
> find crackberry.com very useful, their android counterpart is
> androidcentral.com androidforums is pretty useful for iPhones, I expect
> the community forums on apple.com are useful
>
> for email lists, there are some lists for Android developers - search on
> "xda" - but, again, you'll find more forums than lists
>
> there is, also, of course, stackexchange - for very specific, technical
> questions


Thank you, Miles; you are the first to answer my original question.

Russ

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#159336

rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On Sat, October 17, 2015 12:15 pm, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>>>> I would like to find something like a smartphone discussion list for
>>>> the technically-oriented -- not for the "Isn't Siri marvelous?" crowd.
>> regarding the discussion list question - it's funny, but the technically
>> knowledgeable folks re. smartphones, all seem to be on forums I used to
>> find crackberry.com very useful, their android counterpart is
>> androidcentral.com androidforums is pretty useful for iPhones, I expect
>> the community forums on apple.com are useful
>>
>> for email lists, there are some lists for Android developers - search on
>> "xda" - but, again, you'll find more forums than lists
>>
>> there is, also, of course, stackexchange - for very specific, technical
>> questions
>
> Thank you, Miles; you are the first to answer my original question.
>
> Russ
Funny thing about this list :-)

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra

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#159338

On Sat 17 Oct 2015 at 14:53:40 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:

> rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> >
> >Thank you, Miles; you are the first to answer my original question.
> >
> >Russ
> Funny thing about this list :-)

....... is that many people try ther best to help users.

The original question was

   Is there anything small which can run Debian?

You didn't provide an answer to it. I suppose a bunch of pointers could
lead there. Thank you for giving them.

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#159393

>    Is there anything small which can run Debian?

How small is "small"?

My old MSI Wind U100 netbook ran Debian perfectly, i.e. all the hardware was
fully supported, including 3D graphics, with no need for any binary
blobs (according to "vrms" it was clean, except for those pesky
emacs-common-non-dfsg packages ;-).  The only tweak I'd had to do was to
replace the mini-pcie wifi with an Atheros one (the original wiki
worked more-or-less OK with a firmware-blob, but the driver was in
"staging" and had a few issues).

IIRC there were many similar machines back then (you just want to be
careful to avoid those machines with the gma500 aka "Poulsbo" graphics,
for which support is problematic).


        Stefan

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#159399

Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>     Is there anything small which can run Debian?
> How small is "small"?
>
> My old MSI Wind U100 netbook ran Debian perfectly, i.e. all the hardware was
> fully supported, including 3D graphics, with no need for any binary
> blobs (according to "vrms" it was clean, except for those pesky
> emacs-common-non-dfsg packages ;-).  The only tweak I'd had to do was to
> replace the mini-pcie wifi with an Atheros one (the original wiki
> worked more-or-less OK with a firmware-blob, but the driver was in
> "staging" and had a few issues).
>
> IIRC there were many similar machines back then (you just want to be
> careful to avoid those machines with the gma500 aka "Poulsbo" graphics,
> for which support is problematic).
>
>
And then there were the Nokia "Internet Tablets" (palmtops, actually) - 
the N770 and it's successors 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Internet_tablet), as well as a 
couple of phones built on similar hardware (N900).

They all ran (run) Maemo, a Debian derivative (see maemo.org).  The 
software in open source and the community seems to be active, though the 
devices are no longer made.

There are some other Debian-based distros aimed at handhelds.  See 
https://wiki.debian.org/Handheld


-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra

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#159410

On Sun, October 18, 2015 9:39 am, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> How small is "small"?

My intent is to avoid the necessity of getting a smartphone simply to have
Internet access on the road.

And though it would be nice ("icing on the cake") to be able to use
GoogleEarth when I am exploring out in a rural area, the primary need is
simply to access web sites in order to find addresses and telephone
numbers.  And it would be nice to be able to check e-mail while on an
all-day excursion, or road flooding reports during monsoon season.

Recently I was across town and running late to keep an appointment when I
discovered that I did not have the card on which I wrote the address and
phone number.  In such a case, a flip-open cellular is not of much help. 
However, the flip phone did allow me to reach a friend who searched on the
Internet and found the address and phone number.

So by "small" I mean small enough to be used without getting out of the
car (in order to set the machine on the hood or trunk).  And though many
smartphone users (stupidly) browse while driving, I do not need a computer
which is small enough to use while the car is in motion. That said, even a
display the size of the tiny display of a smartphone is adequate.

Russ

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#159421

> So by "small" I mean small enough to be used without getting out of the
> car (in order to set the machine on the hood or trunk).  And though many

In that case, a 10" netbook (like the MSI Wind or a plethora of others)
would probably be a good option.  You can have them for very cheap
nowadays, and they're just "small x86 laptops" so the installation of
Debian is completely straightforward.


        Stefan

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#159339

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On Sat, 2015-10-17 at 12:21 -0500, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> Thank you, Miles; you are the first to answer my original question.

Well, there was at least two questions in your post. I provided a
suggestion for one of them.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5

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#159343

On Sat, October 17, 2015 2:27 pm, Sven Arvidsson wrote:

> Well, there was at least two questions in your post. I provided a
> suggestion for one of them.

Forgive me, Sven.  When I began this thread, I was thinking strictly in
terms of a smart phone, and did not know of a smartphone forum.

After a few exchanges, it occurred to me that I would be served better by
keeping my flip-open cellular phone for voice, and acquiring a mobile G4
cellular modem and a small computer for Internet access while on the road.
 And after a few more exchanges, I recalled the Asus eeePC.

G4 modems are not expensive.  But, sadly, it appears that the eeePC has
been discontinued.  I have been searching for articles and forums
discussing Debian on the eeePC, and have found some which are rather old. 
It seems that I am "beating a dead horse".

So now my goal is to find an alternative to the Asus eeePC.  I need a pc
which is small enough to be used in the car.  And, of course, it must be
able to run Debian Jessie.

Russ

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#159345

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On Sat, 2015-10-17 at 14:49 -0500, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On Sat, October 17, 2015 2:27 pm, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> 
> > Well, there was at least two questions in your post. I provided a
> > suggestion for one of them.
> 
> Forgive me, Sven.  When I began this thread, I was thinking strictly
> in
> terms of a smart phone, and did not know of a smartphone forum.
> 
> After a few exchanges, it occurred to me that I would be served
> better by
> keeping my flip-open cellular phone for voice, and acquiring a mobile
> G4
> cellular modem and a small computer for Internet access while on the
> road.
>  And after a few more exchanges, I recalled the Asus eeePC.
> 
> G4 modems are not expensive.  But, sadly, it appears that the eeePC
> has
> been discontinued.  I have been searching for articles and forums
> discussing Debian on the eeePC, and have found some which are rather
> old. 
> It seems that I am "beating a dead horse".
> 
> So now my goal is to find an alternative to the Asus eeePC.  I need a
> pc
> which is small enough to be used in the car.  And, of course, it must
> be
> able to run Debian Jessie.

No problem! 

I have the first generation EeePC, which I would happily give away, but
I doubt you plan on visiting Sweden anytime soon? ;)

Have you considered liberating a Chromebook? It seems to be similar at
least in weight to the first gen Eee and it should be possible to get
Debian running. Probably a little bit more hassle than a normal laptop
though.

There's also a few x86 tablets, using Intel Bay Trail, that some people
are running Fedora on. 

Another option is a hybrid tablet/laptop that folds the keyboard.
They're usually quite portable, but I think support is quite poor.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5

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#159349

On Sat, October 17, 2015 3:22 pm, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> No problem!
> I have the first generation EeePC, which I would happily give away, but
> I doubt you plan on visiting Sweden anytime soon? ;)

Your offer is gracious, Sven.

However, I just found an outfit which has a few eeePC in stock, at about
US$225; the product series is EeeBook X205, with 32Gbyte flash memory. 
Would one of these be suitable?  I can send you the URL.



> Have you considered liberating a Chromebook?

The same outfit has in stock a large number of Lenovo Chromebook N21, with
ChomeOS and 16Gbyte solid-state drive, at US$200.  (11.8in x 8.5in versus
11.3in x 7.6in for the eeePC)



I really need a machine on which Debian is known to run.  I have here
somewhere a machine with the new-style BIOS on which I have made several
unsuccessful attempts to get Debian to run.  On the last attempt, the
latest Jessie installer appeared to install properly, but the machine
refuses to boot.

Russ

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#159374

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On Sat, 2015-10-17 at 16:29 -0500, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On Sat, October 17, 2015 3:22 pm, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> > No problem!
> > I have the first generation EeePC, which I would happily give away,
> > but
> > I doubt you plan on visiting Sweden anytime soon? ;)
> 
> Your offer is gracious, Sven.
> 
> However, I just found an outfit which has a few eeePC in stock, at
> about
> US$225; the product series is EeeBook X205, with 32Gbyte flash
> memory. 
> Would one of these be suitable?  I can send you the URL.

Unfortunately the only experience I have with Eee is the very first
generation, 701, those actually shipped with Linux. 

Now, it seems the Eee family have expanded, so I have no experience
beyond that.

If that is the same as the X205TA it seems to have issues:
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Asus/X205TA



This is off-topic, but as you work from you car a lot, have you tried
this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Portable-desk-Steering-Wheel-Multi-Tray-Stand-Work-Dining-Table-Fit-SUV-/261449837514?hash=item3cdf9febca:m:mBMDM9Y7atlEfK7HiuoCILQ&vxp=mtr

I have a friend of a friend who does and he swears by them (when he's
parked, not driving obviously!)

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5

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#159375

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:29:31 -0500
rlharris@oplink.net wrote:

> On Sat, October 17, 2015 3:22 pm, Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> > No problem!
> > I have the first generation EeePC, which I would happily give away, but
> > I doubt you plan on visiting Sweden anytime soon? ;)  
> 
> Your offer is gracious, Sven.
> 
> However, I just found an outfit which has a few eeePC in stock, at about
> US$225; the product series is EeeBook X205, with 32Gbyte flash memory. 
> Would one of these be suitable?  I can send you the URL.

A very quick web search tells me that people have gotten Ubuntu running
on this with a little hacking, but that you need a 4.0 kernel for wifi
and sound does not work at all. There is also a page for it on the
Debian wiki, that seems to indicate you can get Jessie running:

https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Asus/X205TA

> > Have you considered liberating a Chromebook?  
> 
> The same outfit has in stock a large number of Lenovo Chromebook N21, with
> ChomeOS and 16Gbyte solid-state drive, at US$200.  (11.8in x 8.5in versus
> 11.3in x 7.6in for the eeePC)

Well, what I can find tells me that running some sort of Linux in a
chroot should be pretty straightforward, but that is probably not what
you want. To run a full, standard Linux distribution such as Debian, you
would need to open the machine up to remove a jumper or a screw, flash
the firmware, and cross your fingers - this will also remove the
ability to boot ChromeOS. The following link sums it up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chrubuntu/comments/3dkk9n/help_anyone_have_experience_with_the_lenovo_n21/

Even if you do all that, I can't find anything that says everything
_will_ work correctly, just that it _should_.

Petter

-- 
"I'm ionized"
"Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."

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#159354

On Saturday 17 October 2015 21:22:22 Sven Arvidsson wrote:
> I have the first generation EeePC, which I would happily give away, but
> I doubt you plan on visiting Sweden anytime soon? ;)

If we are ignoring age, my early Acer Aspire One ZG5 fits (most of) the bill 
admirably and runs Debian beautifully.  Free to a good home because I can't 
see well enough to use it any more, but 2 caveats
1) It _may_ already be gone on that basis and 
2) It is in the UK - possibly a little far to come to fetch it!

Lisi

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