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Status of repository debian/testing?

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  Status of repository debian/testing? Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2015-09-27 13:30 +0200
    Re: Status of repository debian/testing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-09-28 00:00 +0200
      Re: Status of repository debian/testing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-28 02:00 +0200
        Re: Status of repository debian/testing? Francois Gouget <fgouget@free.fr> - 2015-10-29 15:00 +0100
          Re: Status of repository debian/testing? Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-10-30 09:30 +0100
      Re: Status of repository debian/testing? Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2015-09-30 18:00 +0200
        Re: Status of repository debian/testing? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2015-09-30 18:30 +0200
    Re: Status of repository debian/testing? Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-09-28 01:50 +0200

#158342 — Status of repository debian/testing?

Hi folks,

since some months the debian repository of testing and unstable looks in a 
strange state. AFAIK this is caused by the change to GCC5.

Please understand, that I do not want to mourne. Instead I would like to know, 
if I have to do something or just wait.

When I do an aptitude full-upgrade, there appear a lot of unresolved 
dependencies. Worse with using apt-get: apt-get wants to deinstall lots of 
packages (kde, libreoffice and so on.)

So, can someone tell me in a few words, what is the state of the repo? Of 
course, if I have to change something on my systems (for example to force to 
install special packages, get rid of special libs or whatever), please let me 
know.

On the other hand, please understand, that I want to use KDE further on, and 
want to keep libreoffice, amarok and all the other (mostly kde related) apps, 
which are installed at the moment.

Here is the output of aptitude full-upgrade (not complete):

------------------- snip -----------

.........
.........
.........
475 packages upgraded, 123 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 678 MB of archives. After unpacking 745 MB will be used.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
(then follows a list of tons of libraries and dependencies)
........
.........
........
open: 4951; closed: 6296; defer: 5; conflict: 5                                   
No solution found within the allotted time.  Try harder? [Y/n] 

(Enetering "n" gives me) 
Resolve these dependencies by hand? [N/+/-/_/:/?] 


------------------- snap ----------------

For me it looks like, there are only 5 conflicts (or does this mean 5 libs?), 
which breaks the update. Can this be easily solved? Really, any hints are 
welcome. At the moment, I am aborting the upgrade due to this messages.

Thanks for reading.

Best regards

Hans

P.S. Please feel free to ask for more info.

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#158356

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 13:28:51 +0200
Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> since some months the debian repository of testing and unstable looks
> in a strange state. AFAIK this is caused by the change to GCC5.
> 
> Please understand, that I do not want to mourne. Instead I would like
> to know, if I have to do something or just wait.
> 
> When I do an aptitude full-upgrade, there appear a lot of unresolved 
> dependencies. Worse with using apt-get: apt-get wants to deinstall
> lots of packages (kde, libreoffice and so on.)
> 
> So, can someone tell me in a few words, what is the state of the
> repo? Of course, if I have to change something on my systems (for
> example to force to install special packages, get rid of special libs
> or whatever), please let me know.
> 
> On the other hand, please understand, that I want to use KDE further
> on, and want to keep libreoffice, amarok and all the other (mostly
> kde related) apps, which are installed at the moment.
> 
> Here is the output of aptitude full-upgrade (not complete):
> 
> ------------------- snip -----------
> 
> .........
> .........
> .........
> 475 packages upgraded, 123 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not
> upgraded. Need to get 678 MB of archives. After unpacking 745 MB will
> be used. The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> (then follows a list of tons of libraries and dependencies)
> ........
> .........
> ........
> open: 4951; closed: 6296; defer: 5; conflict:
> 5 No solution found within the allotted time.  Try harder? [Y/n] 
> 
> (Enetering "n" gives me) 
> Resolve these dependencies by hand? [N/+/-/_/:/?] 
> 
> 
> ------------------- snap ----------------
> 
> For me it looks like, there are only 5 conflicts (or does this mean 5
> libs?), which breaks the update. Can this be easily solved? Really,
> any hints are welcome. At the moment, I am aborting the upgrade due
> to this messages.
> 

Firstly, in my experience, aptitude cannot handle an upgrade of this
many packages. In relatively recent times, it stops quickly and gives
the kind of output you describe. No, it does not mean only five
conflicts, it means that only five have been discovered in the time it
spent trying. You can keep pressing 'y', and each time it will search a
bit more, but I don't think it will find an answer in your case. In the
past, I have upgraded unstable installations after six months, and
aptitude used to just appear to chew away indefinitely without finding
a solution. I now use aptitude for frequent upgrades, and apt-get for
large numbers of packages.

Apt-get is much quicker, because it is more simplistic and, often,
brutal. I was in your position a couple of weeks ago, with over 120
packages to upgrade, and aptitude was not getting anywhere. Apt-get
wanted to uninstall about forty packages, one of which was gimp, which
I use frequently. I was advised here that it was likely that gimp could
be immediately reinstalled, so I took a chance and let apt-get do its
worst. The advice was correct, I could immediately reinstall gimp (i.e.
it didn't need to be removed, but apt-get was not sophisticated enough
to work that out) and all is nearly well. There are still a few
packages with bugs, at least in amd64 unstable, but I can live with
that for a while.

So... I've just upgraded unstable, and only the four buggy ones are
outstanding, so unstable is in a fairly consistent state. I don't have
a testing installation, but testing should never be far behind
unstable, so there is a good chance that it is also in a fairly good
state.

What I can't tell you is: if you let apt-get do a dist-upgrade, can you
reinstall everything you need immediately? Maybe, maybe not. I think
that with the number of packages which need to be upgraded, aptitude
will never do the job, so you probably don't have a choice. Have you, by
the way, already done an aptitude safe-upgrade? If not, do so, and then
see how many packages are left. It must help overall, though it may not
be enough to solve your problem.

But I think you will need to use apt-get dist-upgrade, keep careful
track of what gets removed, and then try replacing the parts you know
you need. Not everything removed will need to go back in, some packages
will have been replaced by different ones. I believe both kde and
libreoffice are currently installable, so if you started a new
installation from scratch they would be included, so I would think that
they can be reinstalled. If I was in your position, I would make a
backup, also make a separate copy of dpkg --get-selections, then try it.

I don't think your situation will get any better, the number of
upgrades needed will just increase. I don't think aptitude will ever
manage an upgrade of this size, and I don't think apt-get is clever
enough to do it cleanly.

There was some discussion after the last release, as to whether people
using testing should continue to track testing, or stay with jessie
until testing had 'settled down a bit'. There was an [obviously
correct] opinion that testing would change dramatically quite quickly,
and [I think an incorrect opinion] that this large change could be
avoided by waiting. I was of the opinion that the longer the change was
delayed, the greater the upheaval when it happened. Testing would draw
further and further away from jessie, it would never get closer. I think
your situation demonstrates the disadvantage of waiting.

-- 
Joe

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#158359

Quoting Joe (joe@jretrading.com):

> I don't think your situation will get any better, the number of
> upgrades needed will just increase. I don't think aptitude will ever
> manage an upgrade of this size, and I don't think apt-get is clever
> enough to do it cleanly.
> 
> There was some discussion after the last release, as to whether people
> using testing should continue to track testing, or stay with jessie
> until testing had 'settled down a bit'. There was an [obviously
> correct] opinion that testing would change dramatically quite quickly,
> and [I think an incorrect opinion] that this large change could be
> avoided by waiting. I was of the opinion that the longer the change was
> delayed, the greater the upheaval when it happened. Testing would draw
> further and further away from jessie, it would never get closer. I think
> your situation demonstrates the disadvantage of waiting.

This may be true for testing/stretch in the short term while the
packages have inconsistencies between suitable versions to install
with each other. In the long term, however, apt-get's job will once
again get easier as the inconsistencies are ironed out.

So waiting could still be a sensible option at this time. Some of us
have yet to finish sorting out jessie (in my case, as a production
system, not as an upgrade target).

Cheers,
David.

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#159965

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015, David Wright wrote:
[...]
> So waiting could still be a sensible option at this time. Some of us
> have yet to finish sorting out jessie (in my case, as a production
> system, not as an upgrade target).

As far as I can tell waiting is unlikely to solve the upgrade issues. 
That's what I did for a while, manually holding back packages until 
there was no conflict anymore (since aptitude was totally overwhelmed), 
but things did not get better. Finally I got enough insight into the 
conflicts to solve them. The issues I found fall in just a few 
categories:

* A lot of packages have been renamed from 'foo' to 'foov5'. If your 
  'foo' package was not marked as automatically installed ('i  ' rather 
  than 'i A' in aptitude), then aptitude and apt-get will think it's 
  because you explicitly want the 'foo' package rather than the 'foov5' 
  one. So it will get stuck because the new packages want 'foov5' but it 
  cannot remove 'foo', resulting in a conflict. This is the issue that 
  waiting will never solve.
  -> The fix: In aptitude use 'b' to go from one broken package to the 
     next, open the package page and go to the 'Conflicts' list. 
     If this shows the package conflicting with a 'foov5' package, 
     go back to the top of the page and press 'A' to mark the package as 
     automatically installed. It should be scheduled for deletion and 
     the 'foov5' should no longer be marked as broken.
     (You can also go to the 'foov5' package to mark that you really 
     want it: '+')


* I had the same issue with the 'mysql-*-5.5' versus 'mysql-*-5.6' set 
  of packages and possibly with a couple others I forgot.
  -> Fix: Again, mark the 5.5 packages as automatically installed and 
     aptitude will figure it out.


* I have both the 32 and 64 bit versions of libxml2-dev installed so I 
  can do proper Wine development work. The problem is libxml2-dev 
  depends on libicu-dev which depends on g++. But neither g++ nor g++-5 
  are not a multiarch package, not even 'MultiArch: foreign' ones. So 
  although libicu-dev is marked as multiarch, only one version can be 
  installed at any given time, unlike in previous versions (see bug 
  799100). This then caused a cascade of breakage.

   -> Fix: The only way for now is to give up on multiarch for 
      libxml2-dev and revert to manually creating libFoo.so links in the 
      relevant /usr/lib directory :-( <rant>And to think multiarch, 
      "including cross-compiling environments for embedded systems" was 
      a release goal of the two year old Debian 7 and is marked as 
      "Completed in Wheezy". What a bad joke!</rant> [1]

     
* I had BuildBot installed but it had trouble with python-sqlalchemy: it 
  depends on 'python-sqlalchemy (< 0.10)' which is only available in 
  Debian Stable. It also depends on python-migrate which, if installing 
  the version available in Debian Testing, depends on python-sqlalchemy 
  >=1.0~). Instant conflict (see bug 794300). Combined this confused 
  aptitude and me enough that I removed buildbot for the upgrade.
  -> Fix: Pick the python-sqlalchemy and python-migrate packages from 
     Debian Stable.


* Once I completed the upgrade I got a broken sddm (and if the results 
  when I replaced it with lightdm are anything to go by, a broken KDE 
  / Plasma too). This is because of a missing version requirement of 
  some package on libqt5sql5 (see bug 802811).
  -> Fix: Install libqt5sql5 and the packages it depends on from Debian 
     Unstable. There's already a fix for that which should get to Debian 
     Testing one day.


With all that I now have an _almost_ usable desktop.
- sddm does not start on boot, nor from the console. But I can log in 
  remotely and start it manually from there (see bug 803324).

- Switching the desktop effects off often kills kwin such that it does 
  not restart. But I really only need it to work once and I can start it 
  manually.

- plasmashell crashes multiple times per day, just as before the 
  upgrade (see bug 794110 and bug 801501). Fortunately it restarts 
  automatically so it just means I have to dismiss the crash dialog 
  regularly.

- KWallet keeps asking me to set it up whenever I *quit* Google 
  Chrome or *stop* openvpn as root (note: quit or stop, not start in 
  both cases! see bug 797877) even though I have no intention of using
  it.

- And I have lost sound. Alsa does see the Intel HDA soundcard but 
  PulseAudio/Phonon don't and stick to the dummy sound output. Somehow 
  my user account got removed from the audio group but adding it back 
  and a logout+login did not solve the issue. I still have not figured 
  that one out yet.


But at least I should now be able to apply updates normally.



[1] https://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/
    https://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/MultiArch

-- 
Francois Gouget <fgouget@free.fr>              http://fgouget.free.fr/
     Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                                Arthur C. Clarke

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#159996

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 02:57:48PM +0100, Francois Gouget wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015, David Wright wrote:
> [...]
> > So waiting could still be a sensible option at this time. Some of us
> > have yet to finish sorting out jessie (in my case, as a production
> > system, not as an upgrade target).
> 
> As far as I can tell waiting is unlikely to solve the upgrade issues. 
> That's what I did for a while, manually holding back packages until 
> there was no conflict anymore (since aptitude was totally overwhelmed), 
> but things did not get better.

A trick I read recently is:

apt-get upgrade

apt-get upgrade --with-new-pkgs

then try

apt-get dist-upgrade

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

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#158472

Hello folks, hi Joe!

Thank you all for your response, especially Joe for his big answer.
I now have new experiences, and I want to tell you, how I solved all this.

First, I checked apt-get dist-upgrade. This wanted to install tons of software 
and also wanted to update tons of software. However, it also wanted to remove 
software and many libs, too.

As there were only aptitude, blender, digikam and kdm to remove, I did the 
upgrade.

Now debian installed all the new stuff.

After this I reinstalled aptitude. With the installed aptitude I reinstalled 
blender and kdm. 

However, digikam still made problems. as it depends on many qt4-libs. So I 
could not install it. 

However, I hope this will be fixed, soo, as there is digikam 4.5 available, 
which is based on qt5! I hope, the maintainers will put digikam 4.5 into the 
repo as fast as possible.

Okay, now I had upgraded as apt-get has suggested. 

First start of KDE5. Bad problem, I discovered my setings were all gone, but 
worse - no keyboard input possible.

The solution: I installed the package plasma-desktop and added manually all 
packages with the matching version, like kwin-x11 (which looks necessary for 
kde5) and the depending libs. 

This should be fixed by the maintainers, too.

Now KDE5 started fine, but the look of breeze is ugly. I lioked my transparency 
look of oxygen. So I downloaded oxygenDSX. Much better look.

By using aptitude upgrade, I could install all further needed packages, except 
for filezilla and digikam.

At the moment I have KDE5 running, but it is still rather buggy. 


Problems/ Issues
1. The systemsettings are somehow different (I mean different options for 
settings) between my notebooks, although all versions are the same.

2. On my Notebook with nvidia card (64-bit), KDE5 randomly looses acceleration 
settings, so it shuts down to non-3d-mode. In the systemsettings then some 
options are missing (those for affects). Restarting KDE5 let then reappear.
Very weired, as this happens randomly.

3. The process "Konsole" is using 100 percent CPU-power, although konsole was 
not started by me. This happens every time, when special applikations have 
been started and had been closed, for example synaptics. Looks like it has 
something to do with applications, that need root privileges. 
the process "konsole" can be stopped manually by using ksysguard, for example.

4. Some applications do not work any more, due to a (IMHO) bug of the tray. In 
my case it is hplip and synergy. Both application crash with the message
"System tray is unavailable, quitting". In some forums this message was 
discussed. It looks like either some missing package (sni-qt???) or the tray 
itself is buggy. 

5. Some widgets do not work any more (like yawp)

I admit, these are only annoying bugs, not very important. It also looks like 
not all needed packages are already available for qt5. So some problems might 
be caused by a horrible mix of qt4 and qt4 libs. 
 
Last but not least, I hope, those who are interested, might find my experiences 
usefull. I do upgrades very often (mostly daily), but after the change from 
qt4 to qt5 there are a lot problems in kde5.

For a productive system IMO you should only update to testing, when you have 
lots of time. My update did cost me more than 5 hours of getting it back into 
a state, where I can work again. And still every update can still kill your 
system, so you must be very, very carefull at the moment.

One last thing: During the upgrade I changed from kernel 3.16 to kernel 4.X. 
At boot the system hangs several minutes, when it activates the network 
devices (same with lan and wlan). This behaviour appears since 4.X, with 3.16 
everything worked fine! This was also already discussed in some forums. IMO 
this is also a bug, so I filed a bugreport to the kernel-team.

I guess, my problems may appear at other users, too, although most of them may 
not want to tell it in this list. And I repeat, I do not want to mourn, just 
tell about my experiences.

Thanks for reading. 

Best regards

Hans 

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#158473

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:58:05 +0200
Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> wrote:

Hello Hans,

>for filezilla and digikam.

Neither currently exist in testing.  Like you, I hope for a swift
return.  Filezilla I can live without, but I don't relish the thought of
having to do without digikam for too long.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Why do they try to hide our past pulling down houses and build car parks
Bricks & Mortar - The Jam

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#158358

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 13:28:51 +0200
Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>since some months the debian repository of testing and unstable looks in a 
>strange state. AFAIK this is caused by the change to GCC5.
>
>Please understand, that I do not want to mourne. Instead I would like to know, 
>if I have to do something or just wait.
>
>When I do an aptitude full-upgrade, there appear a lot of unresolved 
>dependencies. Worse with using apt-get: apt-get wants to deinstall lots of 
>packages (kde, libreoffice and so on.)
>
>So, can someone tell me in a few words, what is the state of the repo? Of 
>course, if I have to change something on my systems (for example to force to 
>install special packages, get rid of special libs or whatever), please let me 
>know.
>
>On the other hand, please understand, that I want to use KDE further on, and 
>want to keep libreoffice, amarok and all the other (mostly kde related) apps, 
>which are installed at the moment.
>
>Here is the output of aptitude full-upgrade (not complete):
>
>------------------- snip -----------
>
>.........
>.........
>.........
>475 packages upgraded, 123 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>Need to get 678 MB of archives. After unpacking 745 MB will be used.
>The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>(then follows a list of tons of libraries and dependencies)
>........
>.........
>........
>open: 4951; closed: 6296; defer: 5; conflict: 5                                   
>No solution found within the allotted time.  Try harder? [Y/n] 
>
>(Enetering "n" gives me) 
>Resolve these dependencies by hand? [N/+/-/_/:/?] 
>
>
>------------------- snap ----------------
>
>For me it looks like, there are only 5 conflicts (or does this mean 5 libs?), 
>which breaks the update. Can this be easily solved? Really, any hints are 
>welcome. At the moment, I am aborting the upgrade due to this messages.
>
>Thanks for reading.
>
>Best regards
>
>Hans
>
>P.S. Please feel free to ask for more info.
>
>

Might be a few KDE packages still waiting, but I did a fresh full
installation of Testing with Xfce two days ago. It ran smooth, with no
packages on hold. Updates have been working fine here for about a week.

-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914
[http://linuxcounter.net/user/425914.html]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]

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