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No systemd after update wheezy -> jessie?

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  No systemd after update wheezy -> jessie? Markus Grunwald <markus@the-grue.de> - 2015-09-27 21:20 +0200
    Re: No systemd after update wheezy -> jessie? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-09-28 00:20 +0200
      Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-28 11:20 +0200
        Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-09-28 11:40 +0200
          Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-28 13:50 +0200
        Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2015-09-28 18:10 +0200
          Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 18:40 +0200
            Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2015-09-28 19:40 +0200
              Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 20:20 +0200
          Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Markus Grunwald <markus@the-grue.de> - 2015-09-28 18:50 +0200
        Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Markus Grunwald <markus@the-grue.de> - 2015-09-28 18:10 +0200
          Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 18:20 +0200

#158350 — No systemd after update wheezy -> jessie?

Hello,

after the update from wheezy to jessie, there is no systemd running on my
machine. I had the impression, that systemd is installed automatically...?

% dpkg -l \*systemd\* | egrep \^ii
ii  libsystemd0:amd64        215-17+deb8u2 amd64        systemd utility library

% ps ax | grep system
 3441 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
16669 pts/1    S+     0:00 grep --color=auto system

% ps ax | head -n 2
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
    1 ?        Ss     0:02 init [2] 

 % dpkg -S /sbin/init
sysvinit-core: /sbin/init

I have to add that  the machine is a vserver where I have influence on the
kernel

% cat /proc/cmdline
root=/dev/xvda1
ip=95.129.55.223:127.0.255.255:95.129.55.193:255.255.255.192:vsrv28769.customer.xenway.de:eth0:off 

-- 
Markus Grunwald
https://www.the-grue.de

Fragen zur Mail? https://www.the-grue.de/mail_und_co
https://www.the-grue.de/~markus/markus_grunwald.gpg

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#158357

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 21:00:09 +0200
Markus Grunwald <markus@the-grue.de> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> after the update from wheezy to jessie, there is no systemd running
> on my machine. I had the impression, that systemd is installed
> automatically...?
> 
> % dpkg -l \*systemd\* | egrep \^ii
> ii  libsystemd0:amd64        215-17+deb8u2 amd64        systemd
> utility library
> 
> % ps ax | grep system
>  3441 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
> 16669 pts/1    S+     0:00 grep --color=auto system
> 
> % ps ax | head -n 2
>   PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
>     1 ?        Ss     0:02 init [2] 
> 
>  % dpkg -S /sbin/init
> sysvinit-core: /sbin/init
> 
> I have to add that  the machine is a vserver where I have influence
> on the kernel
> 
> % cat /proc/cmdline
> root=/dev/xvda1
> ip=95.129.55.223:127.0.255.255:95.129.55.193:255.255.255.192:vsrv28769.customer.xenway.de:eth0:off 
> 

I believe there was a deliberate decision not to include systemd in an
upgrade, only in new installations.

I tried an upgrade to systemd in unstable, after which it really was
unstable, and I eventually reinstalled. When the time comes to upgrade
my server, I'm currently inclined towards a reinstallation rather than
upgrade in place. I've no doubt that an upgrade to systemd in a wheezy
system already upgraded to jessie would be less of a problem than I had
with unstable, but you really don't want avoidable trouble in a server.

-- 
Joe

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#158369 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

On Sun 27 Sep 2015 at 22:56:38 +0100, Joe wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 21:00:09 +0200
> Markus Grunwald <markus@the-grue.de> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > after the update from wheezy to jessie, there is no systemd running
> > on my machine. I had the impression, that systemd is installed
> > automatically...?
> > 
> > % dpkg -l \*systemd\* | egrep \^ii
> > ii  libsystemd0:amd64        215-17+deb8u2 amd64        systemd
> > utility library
> > 
> > % ps ax | grep system
> >  3441 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
> > 16669 pts/1    S+     0:00 grep --color=auto system
> > 
> > % ps ax | head -n 2
> >   PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
> >     1 ?        Ss     0:02 init [2] 
> > 
> >  % dpkg -S /sbin/init
> > sysvinit-core: /sbin/init
> > 
> > I have to add that  the machine is a vserver where I have influence
> > on the kernel
> > 
> > % cat /proc/cmdline
> > root=/dev/xvda1
> > ip=95.129.55.223:127.0.255.255:95.129.55.193:255.255.255.192:vsrv28769.customer.xenway.de:eth0:off 
> > 
> 
> I believe there was a deliberate decision not to include systemd in an
> upgrade, only in new installations.

Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.

  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#systemd

  https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-upgrade-default-init-system

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#158370 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

On 28/09/2015 10:11, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 27 Sep 2015 at 22:56:38 +0100, Joe wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 21:00:09 +0200
>> Markus Grunwald <markus@the-grue.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> after the update from wheezy to jessie, there is no systemd running
>>> on my machine. I had the impression, that systemd is installed
>>> automatically...?
>>>
>>> % dpkg -l \*systemd\* | egrep \^ii
>>> ii  libsystemd0:amd64        215-17+deb8u2 amd64        systemd
>>> utility library
>>>
>>> % ps ax | grep system
>>>   3441 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
>>> 16669 pts/1    S+     0:00 grep --color=auto system
>>>
>>> % ps ax | head -n 2
>>>    PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
>>>      1 ?        Ss     0:02 init [2]
>>>
>>>   % dpkg -S /sbin/init
>>> sysvinit-core: /sbin/init
>>>
>>> I have to add that  the machine is a vserver where I have influence
>>> on the kernel
>>>
>>> % cat /proc/cmdline
>>> root=/dev/xvda1
>>> ip=95.129.55.223:127.0.255.255:95.129.55.193:255.255.255.192:vsrv28769.customer.xenway.de:eth0:off
>>>
>>
>> I believe there was a deliberate decision not to include systemd in an
>> upgrade, only in new installations.
>
> Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
> install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.
>
>    https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#systemd
>
>    https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-upgrade-default-init-system
>
Thanks, I haven't yet upgraded a wheezy to jessie.

I had been under the impression, from previous systemd discussions, that 
an upgrade of stable would not by default switch to a systemd init. 
Clearly this is not the case, and it will.

I'm not at all keen on doing that, I still favour a clean systemd-based 
installation for my server, with the associated configuration work. An 
upgraded stable will never be quite identical with a clean installation 
with the same requested packages, and I'm not planning on asking for 
more trouble than is absolutely necessary.

-- 
Joe

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#158372 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

On Mon 28 Sep 2015 at 10:39:29 +0100, Joe wrote:

> On 28/09/2015 10:11, Brian wrote:
> >On Sun 27 Sep 2015 at 22:56:38 +0100, Joe wrote:
> >
> >>I believe there was a deliberate decision not to include systemd in an
> >>upgrade, only in new installations.
> >
> >Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
> >install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.
> >
> >   https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#systemd
> >
> >   https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-upgrade-default-init-system
> >
> Thanks, I haven't yet upgraded a wheezy to jessie.
> 
> I had been under the impression, from previous systemd discussions, that an
> upgrade of stable would not by default switch to a systemd init. Clearly
> this is not the case, and it will.
> 
> I'm not at all keen on doing that, I still favour a clean systemd-based
> installation for my server, with the associated configuration work. An
> upgraded stable will never be quite identical with a clean installation with
> the same requested packages, and I'm not planning on asking for more trouble
> than is absolutely necessary.

Telling you that my server upgrade went well isn't much consolation
because no doubt we have different setups. I'd suggest sticking with
a sysvinit based dist-upgrade so any problems with that can be sorted
out without any systemd anxiety. Then install systemd-sysv.

After updating, either carry out the suggested pinning or install
sysvinit-core to satisfy the dependency of the init package. You can
always roll-back to sysvinit-core from systemd-sysv.

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#158380 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

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Am 28.09.2015 um 18:04 schrieb Markus Grunwald:
> Hello Brian,
> 
>> Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
>> install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.
> 
> I'm the original poster. I did nothing to prevent systemd-sysv being installed
> (no pinning, no hold or the like), yet there's no systemd after my update...
> 

Did you use "aptitude upgrade" when upgrading your system from wheezy to
jessie?

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=780028

-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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#158383 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

On Monday 28 September 2015 17:06:55 Michael Biebl wrote:
> Am 28.09.2015 um 18:04 schrieb Markus Grunwald:
> > Hello Brian,
> >
> >> Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
> >> install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.
> >
> > I'm the original poster. I did nothing to prevent systemd-sysv being
> > installed (no pinning, no hold or the like), yet there's no systemd after
> > my update...
>
> Did you use "aptitude upgrade" when upgrading your system from wheezy to
> jessie?
>
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=780028

What happens if you do aptitude update, aptitude upgrade, aptitude 
full-upgrade?  Which I would normally do.

Yes, I know that I could suck it and see, but this is my workhorse.

Lisi

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#158389 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

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Am 28.09.2015 um 18:36 schrieb Lisi Reisz:
> On Monday 28 September 2015 17:06:55 Michael Biebl wrote:
>> Am 28.09.2015 um 18:04 schrieb Markus Grunwald:
>>> Hello Brian,
>>>
>>>> Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
>>>> install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.
>>>
>>> I'm the original poster. I did nothing to prevent systemd-sysv being
>>> installed (no pinning, no hold or the like), yet there's no systemd after
>>> my update...
>>
>> Did you use "aptitude upgrade" when upgrading your system from wheezy to
>> jessie?
>>
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=780028
> 
> What happens if you do aptitude update, aptitude upgrade, aptitude 
> full-upgrade?  Which I would normally do.

As you can read from the bug report, this will install sysvinit-core,
and once sysvinit-core is installed, aptitude full-upgrade won't install
systemd-sysv.

> Yes, I know that I could suck it and see, but this is my workhorse.

Since at least wheezy, apt-get dist-upgrade is the recommended method
for a dist upgrade.

-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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#158392 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

On Monday 28 September 2015 18:38:35 Michael Biebl wrote:
> Since at least wheezy, apt-get dist-upgrade is the recommended method
> for a dist upgrade.

Yes, I did apt-get for Wheezy - it was in the release notes.  I haven't done 
an upgrade to Jessie yet (only a fresh install), and I hadn't taken in that 
apt-get was forever.  In fact, I doubt that it is.  

Anyhow, I clearly want to use two stage aptitude when/if I do upgrade this 
machine to Jessie!!

Lisi

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#158384 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

Hello,

> Did you use "aptitude upgrade" when upgrading your system from wheezy to
> jessie?


Yes, I did. I'm using aptitude since it was the preferred method ages ago and
didn't see any reason to change this.

Well, now it has changed ;)

Thanks for your help!
-- 
Markus Grunwald
https://www.the-grue.de

Fragen zur Mail? https://www.the-grue.de/mail_und_co
https://www.the-grue.de/~markus/markus_grunwald.gpg

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#158381 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

Hello Brian,

> Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
> install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.

I'm the original poster. I did nothing to prevent systemd-sysv being installed
(no pinning, no hold or the like), yet there's no systemd after my update...

Strange, really.
-- 
Markus Grunwald
https://www.the-grue.de

Fragen zur Mail? https://www.the-grue.de/mail_und_co
https://www.the-grue.de/~markus/markus_grunwald.gpg

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#158382 — Re: No system d after update wheezy -> jessie?

On Monday 28 September 2015 17:04:07 Markus Grunwald wrote:
> Hello Brian,
>
> > Actually, the decision was the opposite of this. A dist-upgrade will
> > install systemd-sysv unless steps are taken to prevent it happening.
>
> I'm the original poster. I did nothing to prevent systemd-sysv being
> installed (no pinning, no hold or the like), yet there's no systemd after
> my update...
>
> Strange, really.

Had you previously done any pinning, say to a dependency, that you had 
forgotten about?

Lisi

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