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Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing

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  Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing Himanshu Shekhar <irm2015006@iiita.ac.in> - 2016-01-05 18:40 +0100
    Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2016-01-05 19:10 +0100
    Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2016-01-05 19:10 +0100
    Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing Francesco Ariis <fa-ml@ariis.it> - 2016-01-05 19:20 +0100
      Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2016-01-07 07:10 +0100
        Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing mudongliang <mudongliangabcd@hotmail.com> - 2016-01-07 08:40 +0100
        Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing Francesco Ariis <fa-ml@ariis.it> - 2016-01-07 09:10 +0100
    Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2016-01-05 20:40 +0100
    Re: Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 23:10 +0100

#162657 — Recommendations regarding using Debian Testing

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I want to use Debian Testing (not Backports, as I had a bad experience), to
try the latest version of software available.
However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
same level of stability as Stable does!
Any recommendations.
Thanks for help.

Regards
Himanshu Shekhar

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#162659

On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 11:02:20PM +0530, Himanshu Shekhar wrote:
> I want to use Debian Testing (not Backports, as I had a bad experience), to
> try the latest version of software available.
> However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
> same level of stability as Stable does!
> Any recommendations.


Old-stable is extremely stable; only security updates are
available. Eventually, security updates will stop.

Stable is very stable; only security updates and fixes that
don't change functionality happen.

backports to stable carry new versions with different
functionality, but only for the packages you select.

unstable is unstable. Don't rely on it. There is no security
support.

testing is only slightly less unstable than unstable. Packages 
which have been in unstable without a release-critical bug for a
few days get to go to testing. There is no security support.

Now you know.

-dsr-

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#162660

On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 23:02:20 +0530
Himanshu Shekhar <irm2015006@iiita.ac.in> wrote:

>I want to use Debian Testing (not Backports, as I had a bad experience), to
>try the latest version of software available.
>However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
>same level of stability as Stable does!
>Any recommendations.
>Thanks for help.
>
>Regards
>Himanshu Shekhar

No, it won't. Stable is called stable for a reason. Testing gets
updates from Unstable after changes have been in Unstable for a set
number of days. If you are using Testing and one of those changes
breaks something, it is possible it will take a few days to get it
fixed. Also, updates to Testing can be removed if found to break
things. 

-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914
[http://linuxcounter.net/user/425914.html]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]

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#162661

On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 11:02:20PM +0530, Himanshu Shekhar wrote:
> I want to use Debian Testing (not Backports, as I had a bad experience), to
> try the latest version of software available.
> However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
> same level of stability as Stable does!
> Any recommendations.

Hello Himanshu,
there is a great faq at

    http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing

I myself use stable, even thought when I used unstable (not even testing)
on armhf, I had almost zero problems.

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#162745

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Francesco Ariis <fa-ml@ariis.it> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 11:02:20PM +0530, Himanshu Shekhar wrote:
>> I want to use Debian Testing (not Backports, as I had a bad experience), to
>> try the latest version of software available.
>> However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
>> same level of stability as Stable does!
>> Any recommendations.
>
> Hello Himanshu,
> there is a great faq at
>
>     http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing
>
> I myself use stable, even thought when I used unstable (not even testing)
> on armhf, I had almost zero problems.
>

This just made my day. I wrote those faqs (at least the initial
version) a long time ago. I used to maintain it on my personal webpage
which is now defunct. I am happy that it is being cited to this day.

raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi | http://raju.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Blog

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#162751

On 01/07/2016 02:07 PM, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Francesco Ariis <fa-ml@ariis.it> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 11:02:20PM +0530, Himanshu Shekhar wrote:
>>> I want to use Debian Testing (not Backports, as I had a bad experience), to
>>> try the latest version of software available.
>>> However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
>>> same level of stability as Stable does!
>>> Any recommendations.
I have gone with debian testing for several months. Now I use debian stable, why? It's not because stability.
Because I use vmware in my desktop. There are many virtual machines I use.

vmware can't go with kernel change like vmdk for virtualbox. There are no many resources of vmware to patch the vmnet module if your kernel is much newer than the average. So I can't go with newer kernel in testing repository.
I was angry about vmware and did not want to use virtualbox(due to some reasons), but I have no method. Then I downgrade from testing to stable by reinstall stable version.

This is my experience, but I think it's suitable to use debian testing as your notebook os. And it's not debian's fault, vmware is.
    - mudongliang
>> Hello Himanshu,
>> there is a great faq at
>>
>>     http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing
>>
>> I myself use stable, even thought when I used unstable (not even testing)
>> on armhf, I had almost zero problems.
>>
> This just made my day. I wrote those faqs (at least the initial
> version) a long time ago. I used to maintain it on my personal webpage
> which is now defunct. I am happy that it is being cited to this day.
>
> raju

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#162753

On Thu, Jan 07, 2016 at 01:07:13AM -0500, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> >
> >     http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing
> >
> > I myself use stable, even thought when I used unstable (not even testing)
> > on armhf, I had almost zero problems.
> >
> 
> This just made my day. I wrote those faqs (at least the initial
> version) a long time ago. I used to maintain it on my personal webpage
> which is now defunct. I am happy that it is being cited to this day.
> 
> raju

:D It gets tossed around a lot on IRC (because they are really frequently
asked question, especially 3.1.5 & ss.!). I recall reading it many years ago,
when I was approaching Debian: it really made the practical differences
between Debian distribution clear, so thanks for having written it (and
subsequently released it under GPL) Raju!

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#162666

On Tuesday 05 January 2016 23:02:20 Himanshu Shekhar wrote:
> I want to use Debian Testing (not Backports, as I had a bad experience), to
> try the latest version of software available.
> However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
> same level of stability as Stable does!
> Any recommendations.
> Thanks for help.
> 
> Regards
> Himanshu Shekhar

Hi:
Francesco already gave a good hint to a good read.

You are right: "backports work fine until they break your system thoroughly".

There is sometimes confusion about the term "stable".
Stable may refer to *your* computer - how stable does it work?

The term "stable" and "unstable" concerning the Debian branches is another 
thing. "Stable" means that the distribution does not change, except for 
security fixes = a status quo.
"Unstable" means that the distribution does constantly change according to 
development and packages included or removed = no status quo.

Even a certain "stable" distribution might work flakily or unstable on *your* 
computer - due to hardware pecularities, unsupported hardware, or bugs, which 
have not been discovered before the release of the stable distribution. Then 
you may want to try the testing distribution or even sid (unstable) to check 
out if newer updates now support your hardware etc.

"stable" does not mean that there are no bugs. There can be well known bugs 
and known workarounds or unknown bugs which you have the honour to discover 
all by yourself. Remember Debian 8.0? Then came 8.1 ;-) 

On the other hand a certain installation at a certain time of the testing or 
the unstable branch might work rock-solid on *your* computer. But that can 
change with any update/upgrade.
Then sometimes you might lose packages for some time, which you would need to 
do your job (example: digikam).

You might want to have a computer with the stable version of Debian and 
another with the testing version or even unstable. An alternative is to 
install both branches (stable and testing) or even three versions with 
multiboot capability.
Some of us use virtual machines to test the various versions, but that may not 
be sufficient if you encounter hardware/firmware/driver problems.

If you decide to install testing on your work-horse computer than look out for 
mayor transitions - it is good advice to wait with upgrades until those are 
completed. Never blindly upgrade!
Look here:
https://release.debian.org/transitions/
https://www.debian.org/News/weekly/

Debian is a very workable distribution - no matter if you use the stable, the 
testing or the unstable branch but the following truth is true for Debian too:
"What's new in the new software?"
"New bugs..."

Cheers
Eike

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#162673

On Tuesday 05 January 2016 17:32:20 Himanshu Shekhar wrote:
> However, I am a bit confused regarding whether testing would provide the
> same level of stability as Stable does!

Of course not!!!  Just look at the names, they tell you all.  (And look up the 
references supplied by other people.)

Lisi

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