Groups > linux.debian.user > #162199 > unrolled thread

Putting It All On a Stick

Started by	Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com>
First post	2015-12-29 22:30 +0100
Last post	2015-12-30 18:00 +0100
Articles	20 on this page of 68 — 12 participants

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  Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-29 22:30 +0100
    Re: Putting It All On a Stick "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@galactic.demon.co.uk> - 2015-12-29 22:40 +0100
      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 03:00 +0100
        Re: Putting It All On a Stick Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-12-30 05:40 +0100
          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 15:00 +0100
        Re: Putting It All On a Stick <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-12-30 10:50 +0100
          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 15:10 +0100
            Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 16:30 +0100
              Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 16:40 +0100
                Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 16:50 +0100
                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 19:50 +0100
              Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 16:40 +0100
                Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 18:30 +0100
                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 19:00 +0100
                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 19:20 +0100
                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 19:30 +0100
                        Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 20:00 +0100
                          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 20:40 +0100
                            Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 20:50 +0100
                              Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 21:00 +0100
                            Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 20:50 +0100
                              Re: Putting It All On a Stick Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-12-30 21:40 +0100
                                Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 00:10 +0100
                                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-12-31 10:30 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 11:30 +0100
                                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 16:30 +0100
                                        Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 17:10 +0100
                                          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-01-01 16:40 +0100
                            Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 21:30 +0100
                              Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-30 22:20 +0100
                                Re: Putting It All On a Stick "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-12-30 22:40 +0100
                                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-12-31 02:20 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-12-31 10:20 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 16:50 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-01-01 15:20 +0100
                                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 16:30 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2015-12-31 16:50 +0100
                                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 17:10 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-12-31 17:30 +0100
                                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 18:00 +0100
                                        Re: Putting It All On a Stick "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-12-31 18:20 +0100
                                          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Eduard Bloch <edi@gmx.de> - 2015-12-31 19:20 +0100
                                            Re: Putting It All On a Stick John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-12-31 19:30 +0100
                                            Re: Putting It All On a Stick "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2016-01-01 11:40 +0100
                                        Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 18:30 +0100
                                        Re: Putting It All On a Stick <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-12-31 19:00 +0100
                                          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 20:20 +0100
                                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 16:40 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 17:20 +0100
                                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 17:50 +0100
                                        Re: Putting It All On a Stick Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> - 2015-12-31 18:00 +0100
                                          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2016-01-02 22:00 +0100
                                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-12-31 18:00 +0100
                                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 17:20 +0100
                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 20:40 +0100
                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 21:00 +0100
                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 00:10 +0100
                        Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 00:20 +0100
                          Re: Putting It All On a Stick Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2016-01-01 16:20 +0100
                            Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-01-01 17:20 +0100
                              Re: Putting It All On a Stick Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2016-01-06 15:00 +0100
                                Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 16:50 +0100
                                  Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-01-06 20:30 +0100
                    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-12-30 21:00 +0100
                      Re: Putting It All On a Stick Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 22:00 +0100
                Re: Putting It All On a Stick Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 19:50 +0100
            Re: Putting It All On a Stick <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-12-30 16:50 +0100
    Re: Putting It All On a Stick Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-12-30 18:00 +0100

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#162294

From	Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date	2015-12-30 20:50 +0100
Message-ID	<qLuUV-2pO-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162291

On Wednesday 30 December 2015 19:34:54 Steve Matzura wrote:
> The USB thumb drive idea was just something I
> thought I would try to make work because it's convenient to carry it
> around and use on various hardwares I encounter on a regular basis in
> my travels as the itinerant accessible computing guy.

Now that is not really suitable for the net-install CD because the Internet 
connection could be ropy.

Lisi

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#162305

From	Joe <joe@jretrading.com>
Date	2015-12-30 21:40 +0100
Message-ID	<qLvHk-2WR-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162294

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:41:08 +0000
Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday 30 December 2015 19:34:54 Steve Matzura wrote:
> > The USB thumb drive idea was just something I
> > thought I would try to make work because it's convenient to carry it
> > around and use on various hardwares I encounter on a regular basis
> > in my travels as the itinerant accessible computing guy.  
> 
> Now that is not really suitable for the net-install CD because the
> Internet connection could be ropy.
> 

Two different things. 'Install from net' does not mean 'run from net'.

I have a small mechanical USB hard drive which was originally booted
from a netinstall, but by the time I had finished installing (plugged
into an amd64 workstation) it would boot on practically anything
i386-based. I did a 32-bit installation, and asked for all drivers at
the appropriate time. I've only found one PC on which it won't boot.

I travel with a Win8 laptop, for various reasons, and if I want to use
public wifi, I boot it from this external drive, thereby avoiding the
whole Win8-dual-boot can of worms.

-- 
Joe

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#162319

From	Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date	2015-12-31 00:10 +0100
Message-ID	<qLy2u-4yN-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162305

On Wednesday 30 December 2015 20:32:30 Joe wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:41:08 +0000
>
> Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday 30 December 2015 19:34:54 Steve Matzura wrote:
> > > The USB thumb drive idea was just something I
> > > thought I would try to make work because it's convenient to carry it
> > > around and use on various hardwares I encounter on a regular basis
> > > in my travels as the itinerant accessible computing guy.
> >
> > Now that is not really suitable for the net-install CD because the
> > Internet connection could be ropy.
>
> Two different things. 'Install from net' does not mean 'run from net'.

Obviously.  But we are specifically talking about installation here.
>
> I have a small mechanical USB hard drive which was originally booted
> from a netinstall, but by the time I had finished installing (plugged
> into an amd64 workstation) it would boot on practically anything
> i386-based. I did a 32-bit installation, and asked for all drivers at
> the appropriate time. I've only found one PC on which it won't boot.
>
> I travel with a Win8 laptop, for various reasons, and if I want to use
> public wifi, I boot it from this external drive, thereby avoiding the
> whole Win8-dual-boot can of worms.

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#162339

From	Joe <joe@jretrading.com>
Date	2015-12-31 10:30 +0100
Message-ID	<qLHIu-2Bw-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162319

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 23:03:38 +0000
Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday 30 December 2015 20:32:30 Joe wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:41:08 +0000
> >
> > Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:  
> > > On Wednesday 30 December 2015 19:34:54 Steve Matzura wrote:  
> > > > The USB thumb drive idea was just something I
> > > > thought I would try to make work because it's convenient to
> > > > carry it around and use on various hardwares I encounter on a
> > > > regular basis in my travels as the itinerant accessible
> > > > computing guy.  
> > >
> > > Now that is not really suitable for the net-install CD because the
> > > Internet connection could be ropy.  
> >
> > Two different things. 'Install from net' does not mean 'run from
> > net'.  
> 
> Obviously.  But we are specifically talking about installation here.
> >

Indeed, and I would make the assumption that 'carry it around' is
something that would be done after installation, as in my case. There's
no reason to assume that the installation would be done in a Net-poor
location, the OP has not said this.

-- 
Joe

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#162341

From	Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
Date	2015-12-31 11:30 +0100
Message-ID	<qLIEx-3cw-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162339

On Thursday 31 December 2015 09:22:25 Joe wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 23:03:38 +0000
>
> Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday 30 December 2015 20:32:30 Joe wrote:
> > > On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:41:08 +0000
> > >
> > > Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 30 December 2015 19:34:54 Steve Matzura wrote:
> > > > > The USB thumb drive idea was just something I
> > > > > thought I would try to make work because it's convenient to
> > > > > carry it around and use on various hardwares I encounter on a
> > > > > regular basis in my travels as the itinerant accessible
> > > > > computing guy.
> > > >
> > > > Now that is not really suitable for the net-install CD because the
> > > > Internet connection could be ropy.
> > >
> > > Two different things. 'Install from net' does not mean 'run from
> > > net'.
> >
> > Obviously.  But we are specifically talking about installation here.
>
> Indeed, and I would make the assumption that 'carry it around' is
> something that would be done after installation, as in my case. 

No, I don't think it is.  It is what _you_ do, but not I think what the OP is 
intending/hoping to do.  He wants to carry the installation media around with 
him, not an installed instance.  

> There's 
> no reason to assume that the installation would be done in a Net-poor
> location, the OP has not said this.

The OP has said that it would be in different locations, some of which have 
good Internet, some poor.

Lisi

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#162357

From	Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com>
Date	2015-12-31 16:30 +0100
Message-ID	<qLNkS-68I-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162341

to put a sock in this discussion, I have, in fact, gone to one or two
locations where there was *NO* Internet at all because the person who
wanted an accessible computer had no idea that in this day and age a
network connection is a virtual requirement to do anything useful.
They were quite happy to have a standalone system that could play
insertable media, write and print things, etc. They thought even such
things as electronic mail and basic Web-browsing were above their
capabilities. They soon discovered they were wrong ... but thereby
hangs another tail. The end user had a portable networking device that
could be plugged in and activated on demand, but there were no drivers
or other software components that were required in order to get it
working. With a net install setup, I'd've exhausted the poor person's
data cap in a matter of minutes, which is why I try to come prepared
with installation media of all sorts, an yes, once in a while I get
somebody whose machine, particularly a newer laptop, has no removable
rotating media capability. They leave CD-DVD drives out of a lot of
new laptops now in order to save space. They're cheap enough, so it's
not a cost saving the manufacturers are after.

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#162369

From	Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date	2015-12-31 17:10 +0100
Message-ID	<qLNXA-6Dn-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162357

On Thu 31 Dec 2015 at 10:21:06 -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:

Andrew M.A. Cater's bluray suggestion is a good one. Most everything of
what you want should be in the image. An alternative method with more
than 3 DVDs is at

https://wiki.debian.org/Installation+Archive+USBStick

> to put a sock in this discussion, I have, in fact, gone to one or two
> locations where there was *NO* Internet at all because the person who
> wanted an accessible computer had no idea that in this day and age a
> network connection is a virtual requirement to do anything useful.
> They were quite happy to have a standalone system that could play
> insertable media, write and print things, etc. They thought even such
> things as electronic mail and basic Web-browsing were above their
> capabilities. They soon discovered they were wrong ... but thereby
> hangs another tail. The end user had a portable networking device that
> could be plugged in and activated on demand, but there were no drivers
> or other software components that were required in order to get it
> working. With a net install setup, I'd've exhausted the poor person's
> data cap in a matter of minutes, which is why I try to come prepared
> with installation media of all sorts, an yes, once in a while I get
> somebody whose machine, particularly a newer laptop, has no removable
> rotating media capability. They leave CD-DVD drives out of a lot of
> new laptops now in order to save space. They're cheap enough, so it's
> not a cost saving the manufacturers are after.
>

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#162429

From	Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date	2016-01-01 16:40 +0100
Message-ID	<qM9Y6-4cE-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162369

On 12/31/2015 10:01 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Thu 31 Dec 2015 at 10:21:06 -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
>
> Andrew M.A. Cater's bluray suggestion is a good one. Most everything of
> what you want should be in the image. An alternative method with more
> than 3 DVDs is at
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Installation+Archive+USBStick

Wish I had known about that page a couple of years ago when 
working on similar goals - no networking physically/feasibly 
available.

That page references https://wiki.debian.org/ManipulatingISOs 
which is valuable in its own right.

Thank you.

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#162302

From	Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date	2015-12-30 21:30 +0100
Message-ID	<qLvxE-2T6-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162291

On Wed 30 Dec 2015 at 14:34:54 -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:

> Sorry, I missed that question. I have not put it on a stick as yet,
> not even the (relatively) small DVD image. I tried using ISO2USB but
> couldn't get the thing to boot. I don't know if it was because my
> thumb drive wouldn't cooperate, or just what, but I definitely did
> make it work with ISO2USB and another 4GB image of a Windows installer
> that worked just peachy. The USB thumb drive idea was just something I
> thought I would try to make work because it's convenient to carry it
> around and use on various hardwares I encounter on a regular basis in
> my travels as the itinerant accessible computing guy. I can install
> Windows, and now at least two Linux distros accessibly, meaning
> "without third party assistance."

The question really was: How did you boot so that you started to install
Debian? And what did you do to prepare the medium for booting?

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#162313

From	Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com>
Date	2015-12-30 22:20 +0100
Message-ID	<qLwk2-3qb-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162302

I didn't do anything to the medium before using a ISO2USB to write to
it. In fact, it was a fresh USB thum drive, literally right out of the
package.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 20:24:04 +0000, you wrote:

>On Wed 30 Dec 2015 at 14:34:54 -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
>
>> Sorry, I missed that question. I have not put it on a stick as yet,
>> not even the (relatively) small DVD image. I tried using ISO2USB but
>> couldn't get the thing to boot. I don't know if it was because my
>> thumb drive wouldn't cooperate, or just what, but I definitely did
>> make it work with ISO2USB and another 4GB image of a Windows installer
>> that worked just peachy. The USB thumb drive idea was just something I
>> thought I would try to make work because it's convenient to carry it
>> around and use on various hardwares I encounter on a regular basis in
>> my travels as the itinerant accessible computing guy. I can install
>> Windows, and now at least two Linux distros accessibly, meaning
>> "without third party assistance."
>
>The question really was: How did you boot so that you started to install
>Debian? And what did you do to prepare the medium for booting?
>

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#162316

From	"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date	2015-12-30 22:40 +0100
Message-ID	<qLwDn-3xs-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162313

Hi,

Steve Matzura wrote:
>  didn't do anything to the medium before using a ISO2USB to write to it.

Do not use any repacker tool with the debian-cd ISOs.
Rather copy them plainly onto the base device of the USB drive.
E.g. onto /dev/sdc if it is at a Linux machine.
See
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
with the advise to use cp or dd and its link to
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#162327

From	Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com>
Date	2015-12-31 02:20 +0100
Message-ID	<qLA4i-61B-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162316

> On Dec 30, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Steve Matzura wrote:
>> didn't do anything to the medium before using a ISO2USB to write to it.
> 
> Do not use any repacker tool with the debian-cd ISOs.
> Rather copy them plainly onto the base device of the USB drive.
> E.g. onto /dev/sdc if it is at a Linux machine.
> See
>  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
> with the advise to use cp or dd and its link to
>  http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Maybe you missed the run-up to this discussion.  Steve only has a Windows computer right now.  He’s trying to get Linux running so he can learn more about it.  I don’t know whether he wants to dual-boot or if he has a separate computer for Linux, but it doesn’t matter for this discussion.  He doesn’t have access to a Linux machine, so dd or cp are not available.  Whatever tools he uses have to run on Windows.

Enjoy!
Rick

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#162337

From	"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date	2015-12-31 10:20 +0100
Message-ID	<qLHyO-2yc-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162327

Hi,

i wrote:

> > with the advise to use cp or dd and its link to
> >  http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/

Rick Thomas wrote:
> Steve only has a Windows computer right now. [...]

He reported to have tried on Linux, too.


> so dd or cp are not available.

Cygwin or alike ?


> Whatever tools he uses have to run on Windows.

That's why i mentioned the link to win32diskimager.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#162361

From	Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com>
Date	2015-12-31 16:50 +0100
Message-ID	<qLNEd-6gJ-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162327

Rick:

I did the Jigdo build on Windows, but I installed Debian from DVD, and
that went just swimmingly right up until the post-installation first
boot. Actually the system was OK, but for some reason, it set my sound
card's volumes, all of them, to 0. That is now being investigated by
Debian accessibility and I may put a bug report in about it. After I
solved that problem with amixer, it's all OK now.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:11:14 -0800, you wrote:

>
>> On Dec 30, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Steve Matzura wrote:
>>> didn't do anything to the medium before using a ISO2USB to write to it.
>> 
>> Do not use any repacker tool with the debian-cd ISOs.
>> Rather copy them plainly onto the base device of the USB drive.
>> E.g. onto /dev/sdc if it is at a Linux machine.
>> See
>>  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
>> with the advise to use cp or dd and its link to
>>  http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
>> 
>> 
>> Have a nice day :)
>> 
>> Thomas
>
>Hi Thomas,
>
>Maybe you missed the run-up to this discussion.  Steve only has a Windows computer right now.  He’s trying to get Linux running so he can learn more about it.  I don’t know whether he wants to dual-boot or if he has a separate computer for Linux, but it doesn’t matter for this discussion.  He doesn’t have access to a Linux machine, so dd or cp are not available.  Whatever tools he uses have to run on Windows.
>
>Enjoy!
>Rick
>

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#162425

From	Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date	2016-01-01 15:20 +0100
Message-ID	<qM8IG-3vK-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162327

On 12/30/2015 7:11 PM, Rick Thomas wrote:
> [SNIP]
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Maybe you missed the run-up to this discussion.  Steve only has a Windows computer right now.  He’s trying to get Linux running so he can learn more about it.  I don’t know whether he wants to dual-boot or if he has a separate computer for Linux, but it doesn’t matter for this discussion.  He doesn’t have access to a Linux machine, so dd or cp are not available.  Whatever tools he uses have to run on Windows.
>
> Enjoy!
> Rick

While looking for something else, I came across "chrysocome.net - 
dd for windows" [http://www.chrysocome.net/dd]. The page was last 
updated in 2010. The author cautions that it does NOT do 
everything the Linux version does. I have not tried it.

HTH

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#162355

From	Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com>
Date	2015-12-31 16:30 +0100
Message-ID	<qLNkS-68I-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162316

Thomas, just dd the file? That really works? I've got to try this.
I've heard of this being the way to do things, but find it hard to
understand how it could work. I suppose the boot loaders know what to
do with ISO images.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:34:56 +0100, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Steve Matzura wrote:
>>  didn't do anything to the medium before using a ISO2USB to write to it.
>
>Do not use any repacker tool with the debian-cd ISOs.
>Rather copy them plainly onto the base device of the USB drive.
>E.g. onto /dev/sdc if it is at a Linux machine.
>See
>  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
>with the advise to use cp or dd and its link to
>  http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
>
>
>Have a nice day :)
>
>Thomas
>

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#162362

From	Joe <joe@jretrading.com>
Date	2015-12-31 16:50 +0100
Message-ID	<qLNEe-6gJ-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162355

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:23:10 -0500
Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> wrote:

> Thomas, just dd the file? That really works? I've got to try this.
> I've heard of this being the way to do things, but find it hard to
> understand how it could work. I suppose the boot loaders know what to
> do with ISO images.
> 

No, it's the very opposite of knowing where things go. The dd command
is a very simple, completely unintelligent copier. But an ISO file is
an image, literally every byte stored on some medium being scraped up
in order, with the intention that it is laid down byte-for-byte starting
at location zero on some other medium. An ISO contains bootloader,
partition table (where used), unused space, the whole lot. What you end
up with is a precise copy of the original (as long as the write medium
is at least as large as the read medium), and dd is the simplest way to
achieve that.

Its only real drawback is that it copies every single byte, used or
not, and other copiers can be quicker if they ignore unused areas. Of
course, to do this, they have to know what is unused, and there is an
obvious risk of error. dd doesn't miss anything, you just need a book
to read while it works.

-- 
Joe

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#162368

From	Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com>
Date	2015-12-31 17:10 +0100
Message-ID	<qLNXA-6Dn-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162362

Joe,

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:43:12 +0000, you wrote:

>No, it's the very opposite of knowing where things go. The dd command
>is a very simple, completely unintelligent copier. But an ISO file is
>an image, literally every byte stored on some medium being scraped up
>in order, with the intention that it is laid down byte-for-byte starting
>at location zero on some other medium.

I understand the laying down of content well enough, but I have always
thought that when something is created, it has a name, and some
firmwares look for that name as the first thing in a table of names,
so when a .ISO file gets laid down on a piece of media, the first
thing in that media's names table is the name of the ISO file, not the
contents thereof, which is why there are image-burner programs out
there that don't lay the package down as a package, but open it and
lay down the contents as such. Maybe I needa go back to school to
learn how this works.

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#162375

From	"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date	2015-12-31 17:30 +0100
Message-ID	<qLOgV-6Ka-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162355

Hi,

Steve Matzura:
> Thomas, just dd the file? That really works?

Yes. It's called "isohybrid".
  http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/Isohybrid

As said: Copy it onto the base device, the whole "disk".
It must overwrite MBR, partition table, GPT, whatever partitioning
and boot sector is present on the disk.

Common mistakes are to copy it as data file into a file system,
or as filesystem image into a partition of the "disk".


> I've heard of this being the way to do things, but find it hard to
> understand how it could work. I suppose the boot loaders know what to
> do with ISO images.

It is an interesting adventure to boot on as many systems as possible:
{ BIOS, EFI, Mac firmware, ... } x { Hard disk/USB stick, CD/DVD/BD }

MBR x86 boot code at the start of the ISO image brings you to
the file

  /isolinux/isolinux.bin

in the ISO image, where CD booting would start too.

The MBR bears a partition table. Partition 1 has the
"bootable/active" flag for stubborn BIOSes which would not
boot without it. Partition 2 is the EFI System Partition:

  $ /sbin/fdisk -l debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso
  ...
  Device                       Boot Start      End  Sectors  Size Id Type
  debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso1 *        0 43859651 43859652 20.9G  0 Empty
  debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso2      75632    76463      832  416K ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)

Because SYSLINUX does not boot from CD via EFI firmware,
the EFI equipment is of GRUB2.
If you mount the ISO

  # mkdir /mnt/iso
  # mount -o loop debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso /mnt/iso

then you can mount the EFI System Partition as FAT filesystem

  # mkdir /mnt/fat
  # mount -o loop /mnt/iso/boot/grub/efi.img /mnt/fat

and see

  # ls -l /mnt/fat/efi/boot/bootx64.efi
  -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 392192 Sep  6 11:14 /mnt/fat/efi/boot/bootx64.efi

This file brings you from EFI to the GRUB2 configuration in
  /mnt/iso/boot/grub

For certain old x86 Macs there may be even a HFS+ filesystem
with blessings and all. debian-cd does not do this. But Fedora
LiveCD has HFS+.
The result from grub-mkrescue has HFS+ too. It uses GRUB2 for
both, BIOS and EFI.

Debian just has an Apple Partition Map entry which points to
the EFI System Partition. (I would really like to know whether
this is of any paractical use.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#162384

From	Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com>
Date	2015-12-31 18:00 +0100
Message-ID	<qLOJX-6Ul-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#162375

Fascinating stuff. The one thing I forgot is cp and dd are not the
same.

Now, does this mean I should run the ISO I made with Jigdo through
isohybrid now that I have a running Linux system?

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:25:39 +0100, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Steve Matzura:
>> Thomas, just dd the file? That really works?
>
>Yes. It's called "isohybrid".
>  http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/Isohybrid
>
>As said: Copy it onto the base device, the whole "disk".
>It must overwrite MBR, partition table, GPT, whatever partitioning
>and boot sector is present on the disk.
>
>Common mistakes are to copy it as data file into a file system,
>or as filesystem image into a partition of the "disk".
>
>
>> I've heard of this being the way to do things, but find it hard to
>> understand how it could work. I suppose the boot loaders know what to
>> do with ISO images.
>
>It is an interesting adventure to boot on as many systems as possible:
>{ BIOS, EFI, Mac firmware, ... } x { Hard disk/USB stick, CD/DVD/BD }
>
>MBR x86 boot code at the start of the ISO image brings you to
>the file
>
>  /isolinux/isolinux.bin
>
>in the ISO image, where CD booting would start too.
>
>The MBR bears a partition table. Partition 1 has the
>"bootable/active" flag for stubborn BIOSes which would not
>boot without it. Partition 2 is the EFI System Partition:
>
>  $ /sbin/fdisk -l debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso
>  ...
>  Device                       Boot Start      End  Sectors  Size Id Type
>  debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso1 *        0 43859651 43859652 20.9G  0 Empty
>  debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso2      75632    76463      832  416K ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
>
>Because SYSLINUX does not boot from CD via EFI firmware,
>the EFI equipment is of GRUB2.
>If you mount the ISO
>
>  # mkdir /mnt/iso
>  # mount -o loop debian-8.2.0-amd64-BD-1.iso /mnt/iso
>
>then you can mount the EFI System Partition as FAT filesystem
>
>  # mkdir /mnt/fat
>  # mount -o loop /mnt/iso/boot/grub/efi.img /mnt/fat
>
>and see
>
>  # ls -l /mnt/fat/efi/boot/bootx64.efi
>  -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 392192 Sep  6 11:14 /mnt/fat/efi/boot/bootx64.efi
>
>This file brings you from EFI to the GRUB2 configuration in
>  /mnt/iso/boot/grub
>
>For certain old x86 Macs there may be even a HFS+ filesystem
>with blessings and all. debian-cd does not do this. But Fedora
>LiveCD has HFS+.
>The result from grub-mkrescue has HFS+ too. It uses GRUB2 for
>both, BIOS and EFI.
>
>Debian just has an Apple Partition Map entry which points to
>the EFI System Partition. (I would really like to know whether
>this is of any paractical use.)
>
>
>Have a nice day :)
>
>Thomas
>

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csiph-web

Putting It All On a Stick

Contents

#162294

#162305

#162319

#162339

#162341

#162357

#162369

#162429

#162302

#162313

#162316

#162327

#162337

#162361

#162425

#162355

#162362

#162368

#162375

#162384