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Re: no response from listmaster

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  Re: no response from listmaster Steve Kleene <skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu> - 2015-12-13 20:00 +0100
    Re: no response from listmaster Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2015-12-13 20:30 +0100
      Re: no response from listmaster Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-14 00:00 +0100
      Re: no response from listmaster Bret Busby <bret.busby@gmail.com> - 2015-12-14 09:10 +0100
    Re: no response from listmaster Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-13 21:10 +0100
    Re: no response from listmaster Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-12-13 23:50 +0100

#161729 — Re: no response from listmaster

References: <loom.20151213T181726-251@post.gmane.org>,
<201512131729.22307.lisi.reisz@gmail.com>

> On Sunday 13 December 2015 17:18:32 Steve Kleene wrote:
> > My address (skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu) has been unsubscribed from the
> > debian-user mailing list.  I understand why.  I took the address down for a
> > few days for reasons that are now irrelevant (but can be related if anyone
> > cares).  Because mails from lists.debian.org were bouncing, they
> > unsubscribed me.  A note from listmaster@lists.debian.org on Dec 8 notified
> > me of this and said, "You are welcome to contact us".  I wrote to that
> > address twice (Dec 8 and 9).  The mails were not returned to me; I have
> > received no response; and I'm still unsubscribed.
> >
> > Do any of you know of another administrator or ombudsman who might actually
> > respond?  Thanks.

On Sun Dec 13 12:29:31 2015, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> replied:

> Why not just resubscribe - much simpler.

Thanks, but that's a whole can of worms I had hoped (in vain) not to reopen.
Last month I did a thread ("problem e-mailing debian groups") on that and was
unable to find a solution.  My e-mails to debian-user@lists.debian.org and
debian-admin@lists.debian.org DO bounce, apparently because my employer
mishandles sender callback verification.  (Having said that, I don't
understand why no one but lists.debian.org bounces my e-mails.)  My employer
only wants to support Microsoft Outlook or Exchange and wishes I didn't run a
mail server at all.  So I'm on my own.

Since listmaster@lists.debian.org does not bounce my mails, I expected to
work with someone there.  I was hoping someone here might have an idea what
it takes to get their attention, or how to contact someone else who might be
helpful.

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#161730

On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 06:57:31PM +0000, Steve Kleene wrote:
> References: <loom.20151213T181726-251@post.gmane.org>,
> <201512131729.22307.lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
> 
> > On Sunday 13 December 2015 17:18:32 Steve Kleene wrote:
> > > My address (skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu) has been unsubscribed from the
> > > debian-user mailing list.  I understand why.  I took the address down for a
> > > few days for reasons that are now irrelevant (but can be related if anyone
> > > cares).  Because mails from lists.debian.org were bouncing, they
> > > unsubscribed me.  A note from listmaster@lists.debian.org on Dec 8 notified
> > > me of this and said, "You are welcome to contact us".  I wrote to that
> > > address twice (Dec 8 and 9).  The mails were not returned to me; I have
> > > received no response; and I'm still unsubscribed.
> > >
> > > Do any of you know of another administrator or ombudsman who might actually
> > > respond?  Thanks.
> 
> On Sun Dec 13 12:29:31 2015, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> replied:
> 
> > Why not just resubscribe - much simpler.
> 
> Thanks, but that's a whole can of worms I had hoped (in vain) not to reopen.
> Last month I did a thread ("problem e-mailing debian groups") on that and was
> unable to find a solution.  My e-mails to debian-user@lists.debian.org and
> debian-admin@lists.debian.org DO bounce, apparently because my employer
> mishandles sender callback verification.  (Having said that, I don't
> understand why no one but lists.debian.org bounces my e-mails.)  My employer
> only wants to support Microsoft Outlook or Exchange and wishes I didn't run a
> mail server at all.  So I'm on my own.
> 
> Since listmaster@lists.debian.org does not bounce my mails, I expected to
> work with someone there.  I was hoping someone here might have an idea what
> it takes to get their attention, or how to contact someone else who might be
> helpful.

You have two major choices, neither one of which is what you
want to hear.

1. You can subscribe via some other address. GMail, Fastmail,
whatever. Let other people handle your mail for you, for money
or not.

2. You can run a mail server... somewhere else. Your employer
doesn't want you running a mail server, and you should probably
honor that desire by not running a mail server on their network.
Rent a virtual machine, a physical server or colocate one of
your own boxes someplace where the network and power is
reliable.


-dsr- also not listmaster

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#161734

On Sun 13 Dec 2015 at 14:19:16 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 06:57:31PM +0000, Steve Kleene wrote:
> > References: <loom.20151213T181726-251@post.gmane.org>,
> > <201512131729.22307.lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
> > 
> > > On Sunday 13 December 2015 17:18:32 Steve Kleene wrote:
> > > > My address (skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu) has been unsubscribed from the
> > > > debian-user mailing list.  I understand why.  I took the address down for a
> > > > few days for reasons that are now irrelevant (but can be related if anyone
> > > > cares).  Because mails from lists.debian.org were bouncing, they
> > > > unsubscribed me.  A note from listmaster@lists.debian.org on Dec 8 notified
> > > > me of this and said, "You are welcome to contact us".  I wrote to that
> > > > address twice (Dec 8 and 9).  The mails were not returned to me; I have
> > > > received no response; and I'm still unsubscribed.
> > > >
> > > > Do any of you know of another administrator or ombudsman who might actually
> > > > respond?  Thanks.
> > 
> > On Sun Dec 13 12:29:31 2015, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> replied:
> > 
> > > Why not just resubscribe - much simpler.
> > 
> > Thanks, but that's a whole can of worms I had hoped (in vain) not to reopen.
> > Last month I did a thread ("problem e-mailing debian groups") on that and was
> > unable to find a solution.  My e-mails to debian-user@lists.debian.org and
> > debian-admin@lists.debian.org DO bounce, apparently because my employer
> > mishandles sender callback verification.  (Having said that, I don't
> > understand why no one but lists.debian.org bounces my e-mails.)  My employer
> > only wants to support Microsoft Outlook or Exchange and wishes I didn't run a
> > mail server at all.  So I'm on my own.
> > 
> > Since listmaster@lists.debian.org does not bounce my mails, I expected to
> > work with someone there.  I was hoping someone here might have an idea what
> > it takes to get their attention, or how to contact someone else who might be
> > helpful.
> 
> You have two major choices, neither one of which is what you
> want to hear.
> 
> 1. You can subscribe via some other address. GMail, Fastmail,
> whatever. Let other people handle your mail for you, for money
> or not.

What difference would that make?
 
> 2. You can run a mail server... somewhere else. Your employer
> doesn't want you running a mail server, and you should probably
> honor that desire by not running a mail server on their network.
> Rent a virtual machine, a physical server or colocate one of
> your own boxes someplace where the network and power is
> reliable.

How would an employer know you are running a mail server? And, if they
could determine it, why would they want to restrict your freedom to
communicate? (Please try to not mention the word "spam" in a response". :)

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#161738

On 14/12/2015, Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:

<snip>

>
> You have two major choices, neither one of which is what you
> want to hear.
>
> 1. You can subscribe via some other address. GMail, Fastmail,
> whatever. Let other people handle your mail for you, for money
> or not.
>

Why not simply take up that suggestion?

I have my miscellaneous email accounts through my hosted domain names,
and, I have hundreds of email filters to deal with the email that goes
through those accounts.

Somewhere in those filters, stuff from some unregulated and commonly
used for malicious email, providers, such as hotmail, gets deleted.

So, I have my gmail account, which is also subscribed to this list,
and, to some other lists, and, this gmail email account, can accept
most email, and, gmail has a kind of semi-intelligent filtering system
to deal with malicious emails.

Whilst I do still get the occasional notification of bounces of
messages from the Debian lists to which I subscribe from my gmail
account, such bounce notifications, due to the rarity of the bounces,
are not sufficient, to cause me to become removed from the list.

So, to me, the simple solution, is to use something like a gmail
account, for your mailing lists messages.

I am curious as to why you are apparently defying your employer, and
running a particular mailserver using your employer's resources,
against the instructions/wishes of your employer, and, why your
employer lets you get away with so defying your employer.

I would have thought that, should you insist on running a mailserver
that your employer does not want, you would do it outside of, and,
unrelated to, your employment.

A few years ago, I had been runnning a mailserver here, on our
domestic LAN, running Postfix, until the computer (that we had bought
for about 100AUD, as a used HP computer, with an MMX CPU, that lasted
for several years, as a mailserver), apparently died, and, I have not
got around to creating a replacement mailserver.

So, if you insist on running your own mailserver, why can you not do
it, on a LAN, at your residence, completely dissociated from your
work?

And, why can you not use a gmail account (or, a similar, free webmail
account), for mailing list subscriptions, at least, in the interim?

I find it to be effective.

Oh, and, as with others, who have already posted in this thread, I
too, am not a list administrator of this mailing list, simply someone
who is wondering why you do not apply one or more of the suggested,
simple and obvious solutions.

-- 

Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia

..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

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#161731

On Sun 13 Dec 2015 at 18:57:31 +0000, Steve Kleene wrote:

> References: <loom.20151213T181726-251@post.gmane.org>,
> <201512131729.22307.lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
> 
> > On Sunday 13 December 2015 17:18:32 Steve Kleene wrote:
> > > My address (skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu) has been unsubscribed from the
> > > debian-user mailing list.  I understand why.  I took the address down for a
> > > few days for reasons that are now irrelevant (but can be related if anyone
> > > cares).  Because mails from lists.debian.org were bouncing, they
> > > unsubscribed me.  A note from listmaster@lists.debian.org on Dec 8 notified
> > > me of this and said, "You are welcome to contact us".  I wrote to that
> > > address twice (Dec 8 and 9).  The mails were not returned to me; I have
> > > received no response; and I'm still unsubscribed.
> > >
> > > Do any of you know of another administrator or ombudsman who might actually
> > > respond?  Thanks.
> 
> On Sun Dec 13 12:29:31 2015, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> replied:
> 
> > Why not just resubscribe - much simpler.
> 
> Thanks, but that's a whole can of worms I had hoped (in vain) not to reopen.
> Last month I did a thread ("problem e-mailing debian groups") on that and was
> unable to find a solution.  My e-mails to debian-user@lists.debian.org and
> debian-admin@lists.debian.org DO bounce, apparently because my employer
> mishandles sender callback verification.  (Having said that, I don't
> understand why no one but lists.debian.org bounces my e-mails.)  My employer
> only wants to support Microsoft Outlook or Exchange and wishes I didn't run a
> mail server at all.  So I'm on my own.

Would you please be clearer here as to your setup.

You are running a mail server anad are using it to send mail.

Does this mail

a) go through one of your employer's mail servers

or

b) do you send mails directly ?


> 
> Since listmaster@lists.debian.org does not bounce my mails, I expected to
> work with someone there.  I was hoping someone here might have an idea what
> it takes to get their attention, or how to contact someone else who might be
> helpful.
> 

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#161733

On Sun 13 Dec 2015 at 18:57:31 +0000, Steve Kleene wrote:

> References: <loom.20151213T181726-251@post.gmane.org>,
> <201512131729.22307.lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
> 
> > On Sunday 13 December 2015 17:18:32 Steve Kleene wrote:
> > > My address (skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu) has been unsubscribed from the
> > > debian-user mailing list.  I understand why.  I took the address down for a
> > > few days for reasons that are now irrelevant (but can be related if anyone
> > > cares).  Because mails from lists.debian.org were bouncing, they
> > > unsubscribed me.  A note from listmaster@lists.debian.org on Dec 8 notified
> > > me of this and said, "You are welcome to contact us".  I wrote to that
> > > address twice (Dec 8 and 9).  The mails were not returned to me; I have
> > > received no response; and I'm still unsubscribed.
> > >
> > > Do any of you know of another administrator or ombudsman who might actually
> > > respond?  Thanks.
> 
> On Sun Dec 13 12:29:31 2015, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> replied:
> 
> > Why not just resubscribe - much simpler.
> 
> Thanks, but that's a whole can of worms I had hoped (in vain) not to reopen.

Have you actually tried the sensible suggestion of resubscribing? Ten
minutes maximum to do it and respond to the confirmation message and get
a response. You'll then know where you up to.

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