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Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie

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  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 20:40 +0200
    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-09 00:00 +0200
      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 07:50 +0200
        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 08:30 +0200
          Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-09 10:50 +0200
            Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 12:10 +0200
              Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-09 15:20 +0200
                Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 15:30 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-09 16:00 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 17:10 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-09 20:00 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 17:10 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-09 18:30 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-09 19:40 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 01:00 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-09-09 16:40 +0200
          Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 12:10 +0200
        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-09 10:40 +0200
          Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 12:10 +0200
            Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-09 21:40 +0200
              Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 00:50 +0200
                Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-10 14:40 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:00 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:30 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-09-11 03:30 +0200
                        Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 12:40 +0200
                          Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-11 14:20 +0200
                            Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 15:50 +0200
                              Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-11 17:20 +0200
                                Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-11 18:20 +0200
                                  Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 18:50 +0200
                                    Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-11 19:00 +0200
                                      Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Ralph Katz <ralph.katz@rcn.com> - 2015-09-11 20:00 +0200
                                        Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 01:00 +0200
                                          ERRATUM Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 01:10 +0200
                        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 08:40 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-11 23:10 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 00:20 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-11 23:40 +0200
                Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-11 22:50 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 00:20 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-12 01:10 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 01:20 +0200
                        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-12 12:50 +0200
                          Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Himanshu Shekhar <irm2015006@iiita.ac.in> - 2015-09-12 15:40 +0200
                            Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 19:30 +0200
                              Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> - 2015-09-12 21:30 +0200
                          Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 19:30 +0200
      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 12:30 +0200
        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-09 21:50 +0200
          Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 23:50 +0200
            Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-11 23:20 +0200
              Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 22:30 +0200
                Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-13 00:10 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 03:10 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Himanshu Shekhar <irm2015006@iiita.ac.in> - 2015-09-13 06:50 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 12:20 +0200
                        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-13 17:20 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-13 17:50 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 18:10 +0200
                        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-13 19:40 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-09-13 18:30 +0200
                        Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-09-13 19:10 +0200
                      Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 23:50 +0200
                Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-13 22:10 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 00:20 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-14 08:30 +0200
          Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 00:50 +0200
            Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 11:40 +0200
              Re: adobe flash player in Iceweasel does not work anymore in Jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 13:30 +0200
              Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-11 23:30 +0200
                Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 22:00 +0200
                  Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> - 2015-09-13 22:50 +0200
                    Re: adobe flash player in iceweasel does not work anymore in jessie Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 00:00 +0200

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#157847

On Sun 13 Sep 2015 at 17:08:28 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Sunday 13 September 2015 16:40:00 Brian wrote:
> >
> > It still disturbs me a little that Lisi's machine doesn't play 4od with
> > HAL and flashplugin-nonfree. At
> 
> I need to try some time on a fresh install, Brian.  For now, I still can't 
> watch 4oD on my TV with an attached Jessie computer, so that comes next.

You will still need HAL. I've indicated previously how I did it but
(because memeory fails me) it may not be the best route for you.

> But I have never not had HAL (Trinity before 14 requires it) so I have my 
> doubts.
> 
> Lisi
> >
> >   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg00444.html
> >
> > there is
> >
> >    All the ones you mention plus hal-trinity.   But so has my husband's
> > computer. He has only the one libflashplayer.so, the mozilla one.
> >
> >    I, on the other hand, have three:
> >    /home/lisi/.mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so
> >    /usr/lib/flashplayer-mozilla/libflashplayer.so
> >    /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so
> >
> > The second line is ok but the third line should show
> >
> >   /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/flash-mozilla.so
> >
> > as a symlink to /etc/alternatives/flash-mozilla.so.
> >
> > I think libflashplayer.so in $HOME takes precedence over the alternatives
> > system. 'ls -l' might indicate which package provides it.

Thanks to Curt for raising the question of which libflashplayer.so is
used by Iceweasel when more than one is on the system. The installation
of flashplayer-mozilla causes /etc/alternatives/flash-mozilla.so to
point to /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/flash-mozilla.so. But, do you have
this file? If you do not, Iceweasel will fall back to using the file in
/home/lisi/.mozilla/plugins/. It strikes me that libflashplayer.so
should not be there.

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#157842

On 2015-09-13, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg00444.html
>
> there is
>
>    All the ones you mention plus hal-trinity.   But so has my husband's computer.  
>    He has only the one libflashplayer.so, the mozilla one.
>
>    I, on the other hand, have three:
>    /home/lisi/.mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so
>    /usr/lib/flashplayer-mozilla/libflashplayer.so
>    /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so
>
> The second line is ok but the third line should show
>
>   /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/flash-mozilla.so
>
> as a symlink to /etc/alternatives/flash-mozilla.so.
>
> I think libflashplayer.so in $HOME takes precedence over the alternatives
> system. 'ls -l' might indicate which package provides it.
>

Whatever happened to 'about:plugins' in the address bar?  That tells you
what plugin is being used, as well as the version (we are we talking
about iceweasel, right?).

Personally, here at home, /etc/alternatives/flash-mozilla.so is a
symlink to /home/curty/.mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so. This was done
because no taking precedence over /etc/alternatives was taking place. I
put the plugin there so I don't have to be root to update it after I
wget the newest version from Adobe. 

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#157844

On Sun 13 Sep 2015 at 16:24:19 +0000, Curt wrote:

> On 2015-09-13, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg00444.html
> >
> > there is
> >
> >    All the ones you mention plus hal-trinity.   But so has my husband's computer.  
> >    He has only the one libflashplayer.so, the mozilla one.
> >
> >    I, on the other hand, have three:
> >    /home/lisi/.mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so
> >    /usr/lib/flashplayer-mozilla/libflashplayer.so
> >    /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so
> >
> > The second line is ok but the third line should show
> >
> >   /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/flash-mozilla.so
> >
> > as a symlink to /etc/alternatives/flash-mozilla.so.
> >
> > I think libflashplayer.so in $HOME takes precedence over the alternatives
> > system. 'ls -l' might indicate which package provides it.
> >
> 
> Whatever happened to 'about:plugins' in the address bar?  That tells you
> what plugin is being used, as well as the version (we are we talking
> about iceweasel, right?).

Not a bad idea but it doesn't tell you where the file in ~/.mozilla/plugins
came from.

> Personally, here at home, /etc/alternatives/flash-mozilla.so is a
> symlink to /home/curty/.mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so. This was done
> because no taking precedence over /etc/alternatives was taking place. I
> put the plugin there so I don't have to be root to update it after I
> wget the newest version from Adobe.

You look to be right about the precedence; 'about:plugins' shows the one
in ~/.mozilla/plugins as second in the Path:. The symlink doesn't appear
to be needed when /.mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so is the only file
on the system.

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#157857

On 2015-09-13, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun 13 Sep 2015 at 01:04:27 +0000, Liam O'Toole wrote:
>
>> On 2015-09-12, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>> > On Sat 12 Sep 2015 at 20:21:40 +0000, Liam O'Toole wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2015-09-11, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
>> >> > Op 09-09-15 om 23:43 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> I've been using Flash from deb-multimedia for years without issue (on
>> >> >> stable releases, I grant you). I use the following pinning:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Package: *
>> >> >> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
>> >> >> Pin-Priority: 100
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't know what this is doing, do you?
>> >> 
>> >> Yes. When a package is available in both debian and deb-multimedia, the
>> >> former is always preferred.
>> >
>> > Except when you use "Flash from deb-multimedia for years".
>> 
>> I don't follow. Could you please explain?
>
> I was pointing out the apparent contradiction in advising the Debian
> archives over the deb-multimedia ones and not taking it yourself. It
> was not really that important to mention. :)

Ah, I see. I use deb-multimedia when a package is not available in
debian, or when the deb-multimedia package uses (what I consider to be)
a superior approach to the packaging of non-free software. Hence my
preference for flashplayer-mozilla over flashplugin-nonfree.

-- 

Liam

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#157853

Op 12-09-15 om 22:21 schreef Liam O'Toole:
> On 2015-09-11, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
>> Op 09-09-15 om 23:43 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>>> On 2015-09-09, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
>>>> Op 09-09-15 om 12:20 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>>>>
>>>>> If you use flashplayer-mozilla from deb-multimedia, then you get updates
>>>>> automatically. 
>>>>
>>>> When you use cron, you get updates automatically too. See my other post.
>>>
>>> I saw that, thanks. I prefer to manage updates through APT. Each to his
>>> own.
>>
>> You prefer to get updates from a place, what gave many problems in the past.
>>
>>>>> Conflicts are avoided by pinning the deb-multimedia repository.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is complex to do right.
>>>>
>>>> My experience: deb-multimedia in sources.list gives problems.
>>>> See: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia/FAQ#Common_issues
>>>>
>>>> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
>>>
>>> I've been using Flash from deb-multimedia for years without issue (on
>>> stable releases, I grant you). I use the following pinning:
>>>
>>> Package: *
>>> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
>>> Pin-Priority: 100
>>
>> I don't know what this is doing, do you?
> 
> Yes. When a package is available in both debian and deb-multimedia, the
> former is always preferred.

And when an update of a package depends on a package what's newer then
what's available in Debian?

>> I think you will have many packages on your system what are coming from
>> deb-multimedia. Maybe that's what you want, no idea.
> 
> Not so. See above.

Nice to hear. But they can do it if they want, or when they make a
mistake. I guess.

>> I think the people from deb-multimedia are doing their best to make good
>> packages. But I think Debian is too complex to mix with a repo like
>> deb-multimedia with many packages. Maybe you don't have problems with
>> flash, but I think your system is not "rock solid" anymore.
>> And what does deb-multimedia bring you for that?
> 
> The system is no longer 'rock solid' as soon as you install any
> third-party software, be it via flashplayer-mozilla or
> flashplugin-nonfree or anything else.

The packages in Debian are good tested with eachother. I don't think the
packages in deb-multimedia are tested that good. And Debian can change
things what gives problems with deb-multimedia.

I've used deb-multimedia in the past, but I don't do it anymore. The
only package what I miss sometimes is libdvdcss2. But maybe there is
interesting software there what I don't know.

And yes, maybe flashplayer-mozilla is a little bit better then
flashplugin-nonfree. But I found a good workarround for updating. And
most of my customers don't use a flashplugin anymore. Only people who
want to look TV on the computer, or who want to play flash-games have
problems. For listening radio are good alternatives available.
Video-sites are working most of the time good with HTML5.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.


-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

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#157859

On 2015-09-13, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
> Op 12-09-15 om 22:21 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>> On 2015-09-11, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
>>> Op 09-09-15 om 23:43 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>>>> On 2015-09-09, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
>>>>> Op 09-09-15 om 12:20 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you use flashplayer-mozilla from deb-multimedia, then you get updates
>>>>>> automatically. 
>>>>>
>>>>> When you use cron, you get updates automatically too. See my other post.
>>>>
>>>> I saw that, thanks. I prefer to manage updates through APT. Each to his
>>>> own.
>>>
>>> You prefer to get updates from a place, what gave many problems in the past.
>>>
>>>>>> Conflicts are avoided by pinning the deb-multimedia repository.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is complex to do right.
>>>>>
>>>>> My experience: deb-multimedia in sources.list gives problems.
>>>>> See: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia/FAQ#Common_issues
>>>>>
>>>>> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
>>>>
>>>> I've been using Flash from deb-multimedia for years without issue (on
>>>> stable releases, I grant you). I use the following pinning:
>>>>
>>>> Package: *
>>>> Pin: release o=Unofficial Multimedia Packages
>>>> Pin-Priority: 100
>>>
>>> I don't know what this is doing, do you?
>> 
>> Yes. When a package is available in both debian and deb-multimedia, the
>> former is always preferred.
>
> And when an update of a package depends on a package what's newer then
> what's available in Debian?

In those circumstances the update is held back.

-- 

Liam

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#157867

On 9/13/2015 1:01 PM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> The packages in Debian are good tested with eachother. I don't think the
> packages in deb-multimedia are tested that good. And Debian can change
> things what gives problems with deb-multimedia.
I run unstable so expect issues are going to happen anyway.
Don't know what the policy is for packages that are targeted at stable 
or testing.

Normally I don't have big issues, when there are issues they are 
normally short lived.
For some of the packages there may be options enabled that are not in 
Debian due to
patent/license issues.

Just looking at it from the standpoint of unstable, there does seem to 
be a more
aggressive stance taken in regard to getting newer versions of some 
things into
deb-multimedia and in some cases enabling features that may be a little 
less developed
so from that standpoint I would expect some additional problems related 
to those
things.


  With all the transitions at the moment there are extra issues, I did 
use the package
menu in Synaptic to force libgegl and libx264 to the Debian versions so 
some other
packages could upgrade. Not completely certain it was necessary for libx264.
> I've used deb-multimedia in the past, but I don't do it anymore. The
> only package what I miss sometimes is libdvdcss2. But maybe there is
> interesting software there what I don't know.
If you just want libdvdcss, the videolan developers provide a repository 
for that....

https://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html

>
> And yes, maybe flashplayer-mozilla is a little bit better then
> flashplugin-nonfree. But I found a good workarround for updating. And
> most of my customers don't use a flashplugin anymore. Only people who
> want to look TV on the computer, or who want to play flash-games have
> problems. For listening radio are good alternatives available.
> Video-sites are working most of the time good with HTML5.
Flash seems to have problems on every platform, I use the installer in 
Debian, it
works for the stuff I care about, YMMV.

Later, Seeker

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#157654

On Wednesday 09 September 2015 20:46:42 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.

A constructive suggestion!  That is obviously a good idea.

Lisi

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#157664

On 2015-09-09, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday 09 September 2015 20:46:42 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
>
> A constructive suggestion!  That is obviously a good idea.

I would call it a kludge, at best. Using wget and dpkg is to invite what
used to be called 'RPM hell'. It also runs the risk of missing security
updates to packages.

-- 

Liam

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#157669

On Thursday 10 September 2015 10:33:20 Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2015-09-09, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday 09 September 2015 20:46:42 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> >> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
> >
> > A constructive suggestion!  That is obviously a good idea.
>
> I would call it a kludge, at best. 

I agree.  But at least it is constructive not nihilistic: "don't do it; no-one 
reasonable wants to do anything that can't be done in pure Debian".  It is 
the fact of a constructive suggestion that I was saying was a good idea, not 
the actual suggestion.

> Using wget and dpkg is to invite what 
> used to be called 'RPM hell'. It also runs the risk of missing security
> updates to packages.

Yes, I shall continue to use deb-multimedia as I always have done when it 
suits me.

Lisi

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#157767

Op 10-09-15 om 11:33 schreef Liam O'Toole:
> On 2015-09-09, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday 09 September 2015 20:46:42 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
>>
>> A constructive suggestion!  That is obviously a good idea.
> 
> I would call it a kludge, at best. Using wget and dpkg is to invite what
> used to be called 'RPM hell'. 

Use "apt-get -f install" after installing a package with dependencies.
This will get packages from Debian. If it does need another package from
e.g. deb-multimedia, you have to use wget and dpkg again, and then you
know you have to monitor another package.

> It also runs the risk of missing security updates to packages.

Realise that when you put a repo in your sources list, you normally give
control to that repo to install everything they want on your computer.
And to make a complete mess out of your computer. Is that good security?

I want to know exactly what packages are not coming from Debian.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.


-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

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#157807

On 2015-09-11, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
> Op 10-09-15 om 11:33 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>> On 2015-09-09, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 09 September 2015 20:46:42 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>>> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
>>>
>>> A constructive suggestion!  That is obviously a good idea.
>> 
>> I would call it a kludge, at best. Using wget and dpkg is to invite what
>> used to be called 'RPM hell'. 
>
> Use "apt-get -f install" after installing a package with dependencies.
> This will get packages from Debian. If it does need another package from
> e.g. deb-multimedia, you have to use wget and dpkg again, and then you
> know you have to monitor another package.

Like I said: a kludge.

>
>> It also runs the risk of missing security updates to packages.
>
> Realise that when you put a repo in your sources list, you normally give
> control to that repo to install everything they want on your computer.

Not when you pin the repository appropriately, as I have indicated
elsewhere.

> And to make a complete mess out of your computer. Is that good security?

I would say yes in this case. The maintainer of deb-multimedia is a
well-established Debian developer.

>
> I want to know exactly what packages are not coming from Debian.

That's easy to determine.

-- 

Liam

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#157855

Op 12-09-15 om 21:51 schreef Liam O'Toole:
> On 2015-09-11, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
>> Op 10-09-15 om 11:33 schreef Liam O'Toole:
>>> On 2015-09-09, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday 09 September 2015 20:46:42 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>>>> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
>>>>
>>>> A constructive suggestion!  That is obviously a good idea.
>>>
>>> I would call it a kludge, at best. Using wget and dpkg is to invite what
>>> used to be called 'RPM hell'. 
>>
>> Use "apt-get -f install" after installing a package with dependencies.
>> This will get packages from Debian. If it does need another package from
>> e.g. deb-multimedia, you have to use wget and dpkg again, and then you
>> know you have to monitor another package.
> 
> Like I said: a kludge.

Your opinion, I even don't know what a kludge is.

This is not an "invention" of me, many sysadmins are using this. See:
https://wiki.debian.org/MultimediaCodecs#deb-multimedia.org

>>> It also runs the risk of missing security updates to packages.
>>
>> Realise that when you put a repo in your sources list, you normally give
>> control to that repo to install everything they want on your computer.
> 
> Not when you pin the repository appropriately, as I have indicated
> elsewhere.

See my response there.

>> And to make a complete mess out of your computer. Is that good security?
> 
> I would say yes in this case. The maintainer of deb-multimedia is a
> well-established Debian developer.

That's right. But in Debian we have FTP-masters and many people who are
looking when a package is in sid and in testing. Mass-rebuilds and
automated checks. The maintainer of deb-multimedia does that all by it's
own. He will make a mistake, that's murphy's law.

>> I want to know exactly what packages are not coming from Debian.
> 
> That's easy to determine.

You have to do check that regulary when you care.

With regards,
Paul van der Vlis.


-- 
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://www.vandervlis.nl/

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#157858

On Sunday 13 September 2015 21:46:11 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> Op 12-09-15 om 21:51 schreef Liam O'Toole:
> > On 2015-09-11, Paul van der Vlis <paul@vandervlis.nl> wrote:
> >> Op 10-09-15 om 11:33 schreef Liam O'Toole:
> >>> On 2015-09-09, Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday 09 September 2015 20:46:42 Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> >>>>> When I need a package from deb-multimedia, I use wget and dpkg.
> >>>>
> >>>> A constructive suggestion!  That is obviously a good idea.
> >>>
> >>> I would call it a kludge, at best. Using wget and dpkg is to invite
> >>> what used to be called 'RPM hell'.
> >>
> >> Use "apt-get -f install" after installing a package with dependencies.
> >> This will get packages from Debian. If it does need another package from
> >> e.g. deb-multimedia, you have to use wget and dpkg again, and then you
> >> know you have to monitor another package.
> >
> > Like I said: a kludge.
>
> Your opinion,

To which he is entitled.

> I even don't know what a kludge is. 

You could look it up.  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kludge

> This is not an "invention" of me, many sysadmins are using this. See:
> https://wiki.debian.org/MultimediaCodecs#deb-multimedia.org

That is not relevant.  You do what you want to do.  Others form their own 
judgements and do what they want to do.  You would never attach a computer to 
a TV, some of us do.  None of my clients has deb-multimedia in his or her 
sources.list either.  So what.

> >>> It also runs the risk of missing security updates to packages.
> >>
> >> Realise that when you put a repo in your sources list, you normally give
> >> control to that repo to install everything they want on your computer.
> >
> > Not when you pin the repository appropriately, as I have indicated
> > elsewhere.
>
> See my response there.
>
> >> And to make a complete mess out of your computer. Is that good security?
> >
> > I would say yes in this case. The maintainer of deb-multimedia is a
> > well-established Debian developer.
>
> That's right. But in Debian we have FTP-masters and many people who are
> looking when a package is in sid and in testing. Mass-rebuilds and
> automated checks. The maintainer of deb-multimedia does that all by it's
> own. He will make a mistake, that's murphy's law.#

The computer attached to my TV has already crashed and had to be reinstalled 
once, without the help of Marillat.  If it crashes beyond redemption again, 
I'll reinstall again.  It's no big deal.

> >> I want to know exactly what packages are not coming from Debian.
> >
> > That's easy to determine.
>
> You have to do check that regulary when you care.

Paul, we don't all have to live according to the gospel of Paul.  You think we 
are wrong.  We know that.  The fact that you think that is totally 
irrelevant.

Lisi

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