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Groups > linux.debian.user > #157426 > unrolled thread
| Started by | ray <ray@aarden.us> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-09-06 04:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2015-09-09 04:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 5 on this page of 25 — 4 participants |
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How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-06 04:50 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-06 22:40 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-07 02:30 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-07 10:40 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-08 01:50 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-08 12:40 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-08 14:00 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-08 15:00 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-09-07 13:20 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-07 14:40 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-08 02:00 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-08 03:40 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-08 14:10 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-08 15:10 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-09 04:00 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-09 21:10 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-10 02:40 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2015-09-10 17:00 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-12 04:30 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-12 05:10 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-14 02:40 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-10 18:10 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-12 05:10 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2015-09-08 10:50 +0200
Re: How to Boot with LVM ray <ray@aarden.us> - 2015-09-09 04:10 +0200
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| From | ray <ray@aarden.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-09-14 02:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q8pYl-6Xe-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157785 |
I have found that I can copy an existing entry in EFI, EFI/debian for example, past it in parallel with a new name, EFI/test, update-grub and when I reboot, I have a new choice to the same debian instance. This suggests that I can now delete the debian instance, update grub, only have on instance to boot into the same instance. Then I should be able to install debian vai the installation disk. Here comes and experiment. I would like to than you all for your persistence. I will inform the everyone of my findings.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-09-10 18:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q7cAa-6pV-29@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157658 |
Quoting ray (ray@aarden.us):
> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 2:10:04 PM UTC-5, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> > ray a écrit :
[...]
> > > A baffling point: In rEFInd the path is /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi
> >
> > How is it baffling ? The EFI system partition is mounted on /boot/efi
> > and the path relative to the partition filesystem root is
> > /EFI/debian/grubx64.efi. The EFI firmware does not care about where you
> > mount the EFI system partition.
> Baffling: Viewing with rEFInd, I see /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi
[...]
> > What's mounted on /boot/efi ?
> I am not sure what it means 'what's mounted on ...'.
Yes, it does seem to me that you don't understand the concept of
mounting.
You have a partition containing a filesystem which contains the sole
pathname EFI/debian/grubx64.efi as shown by
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg00273.html
listed under Fs8. EFI is the topmost directory, and that name is
probably obligatory. Within it can be any number of different
directories for different OSes that you might be booting, in this case
just debian. Within EFI/debian/ is grub's own file.
You can mount a filesystem (in a partition) onto any existing
directory, and you've chosen to mount on /boot/efi. Normally,
mountpoints are empty directories like this, set up for that purpose,
but in general they don't have to be. (However, if you mount a
filesystem onto a non-empty directory, any previous contents will he
hidden until you unmount the filesystem again.)
When you mount your filesystem onto your mountpoint, the files in
the filesystem will now appear under the mountpoint-directory.
Thus you get:
mountpoint
↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
/boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi
↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
filesystem paths
There's a couple of diagrams of this at
http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/filesystem/Lesson1.html
where /boot/efi ↔ /floppy and EFI/debian/grubx64.efi ↔ fun/Lesson1.html
Cheers,
David.
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| From | ray <ray@aarden.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-09-12 05:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q7Jmp-4KO-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157696 |
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 11:10:05 AM UTC-5, David Wright wrote: > Quoting ray : > > On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 2:10:04 PM UTC-5, Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > ray a écrit : > [...] > > > > A baffling point: In rEFInd the path is /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi > > > > > > How is it baffling ? The EFI system partition is mounted on /boot/efi > > > and the path relative to the partition filesystem root is > > > /EFI/debian/grubx64.efi. The EFI firmware does not care about where you > > > mount the EFI system partition. > > Baffling: Viewing with rEFInd, I see /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi > > [...] > > > > What's mounted on /boot/efi ? > > I am not sure what it means 'what's mounted on ...'. > > Yes, it does seem to me that you don't understand the concept of > mounting. > > You have a partition containing a filesystem which contains the sole > pathname EFI/debian/grubx64.efi as shown by > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/09/msg00273.html > listed under Fs8. EFI is the topmost directory, and that name is > probably obligatory. Within it can be any number of different > directories for different OSes that you might be booting, in this case > just debian. Within EFI/debian/ is grub's own file. > > You can mount a filesystem (in a partition) onto any existing > directory, and you've chosen to mount on /boot/efi. Normally, > mountpoints are empty directories like this, set up for that purpose, > but in general they don't have to be. (However, if you mount a > filesystem onto a non-empty directory, any previous contents will he > hidden until you unmount the filesystem again.) > > When you mount your filesystem onto your mountpoint, the files in > the filesystem will now appear under the mountpoint-directory. > Thus you get: > > mountpoint > ↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓ > /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi > ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ > filesystem paths > > There's a couple of diagrams of this at > http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/filesystem/Lesson1.html > where /boot/efi ↔ /floppy and EFI/debian/grubx64.efi ↔ fun/Lesson1.html > > Cheers, > David. I have read the Lesson1 before and did not catch on. It took rereading these messages and exercising the system to get a little grip on this. Your perspective has been significantly different from the Lesson1 and others I have read and thus yours has been very helpful.
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| From | Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-09-08 10:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q6mLg-7A8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157536 |
Hi Ray, I’ll try to answer your questions… On Sep 7, 2015, at 4:36 PM, ray <ray@aarden.us> wrote: > Rick, > > Thank you for responding and providing all the info. > > On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 6:20:07 AM UTC-5, Rick Thomas wrote: >> On Sep 5, 2015, at 7:24 PM, ray wrote: >> >>> I would like to configure LVMs for everything including boot. >> >> Is it "just for fun" or do you have a real-world reason for wanting everything, including boot, to be on LVM? > Lack of knowledge. I was expecting it to be cleaner. But it no longer looks that way. >> >> I'll describe my own typical setup (special purpose systems may have different setups to meet special purpose needs). For purposes of illustration, I'll describe a system with two identical disks. The principles should be clear as they apply to systems with larger or more varied configurations. If you have only a single disk, you can skip the RAID parts in this and go straight to LVM. > > I have 3 pairs of SSDs, each pair in a RAID0. I would use RAID1 on each pair (3 SSDs worth of “usable” space), or RAID5 or 6 on a larger aggregate. E.g. RAID6 on all 6 drives (gives 4 SSDs worth of “usable” space), or RAID5 on 6 drives (gives 5 SSDs worth of “usable” space). Each of those configurations can survive a loss of one SSD (or two, in the case of RAID6) without data loss. Your choice of RAID0 in pairs gives the full 6 SSDs worth of “usable” space, but has zero redundancy. If that works for you, that’s great. I’ve got enough experience (40 years) as a sysadmin to have seen users tearing hair over lost data (I always had backups — often tape in those days — so the only thing really lost was uptime, but you get the point…) In case it’s not clear, “usable” means space left over after subtracting out all the redundant data in the array. > >> >> I configure a small (<1GB) "/boot" partition as a primary partition (e.g. /dev/sda1) on one of the disks, with the same space on the other disk unused. [1] I make another primary partition (e.g. /dev/sd[ab]2), on each of the disks, sized to be one half of the size I want for my swap. The rest of the space on each disk goes into a single, large, logical partition (e.g. /dev/sd[ab]5). >> > This is similar to my setup. I have the swaps on a separate RAID0. Should work fine. Of course you should read Pascal’s post for a different point of view. > >> The two swap partitions I set up as a RAID0 (e.g. /dev/md0). This will be my system swap. [2] >> >> The two large logical partitions, I configure into a RAID1 (e.g. /dev/md1). [3] >> > I made my large partition a primary. Could this be problematic? It would only be a problem if you need another primary partition for something. You only get 3 primary partitions on a disk, so I like to leave one free “just incase”. > >> I configure the RAID1 as the physical volume for a single volume group which I partition using LVM into a root that's big enough to be about 50% full when fully installed, and /home that's as big as I think I'll need for my users. The remainder of the VG I leave unconfigured, so I can grow into it as needs become apparent over time. >> >> If I have enough RAM to make it useful, I'll put /tmp on a tmpfs. I size it at about 50% of my swap space. With a smaller RAM, I make a separate logical volume for /tmp. >> > I would like to know more about the purpose of these criteria - please. Putting /tmp on tmpfs is for speed. If your /tmp usage fits in RAM (after allowing for apps, data, and disk buffering) you get RAM speed access to your temporary data. If it overflows, then the excess goes into swap, so you’re no worse off than if you had /tmp on hard disk in the first place. This can make large compilations (as an example) run *much* faster. On the other hand, if you are tight on RAM, putting /tmp on disk doesn’t hurt, and eliminates a source of contention for RAM which is assumed to be a scarce resource. The 50% figure is just a rule of thumb I picked up over the years. There’s nothing magic about it. And, as always, YMMV. It’s highly application dependent. > >> [1] I know there are ways to make grub work with RAID1, but it's too complicated for me to get it right. Instead, I just make regular backups of the /boot partition. If the disk with /boot on it develops a bad spot in an inconvenient place, I simply boot from a CD in rescue mode and restore the contents of /boot from a backup into the unused space that I reserved on the other disk. > > Yes, that was my plan also. But it was also my plan to backup the rest of the system to HDD. As such, I planned for no redundancy in drive configuration and only stripe for speed. It might make sense to create a logical volume with some of the unused space in the volume group called (for lack of a better name) /backup. It’s “reliable” in the sense that it resides on a RAID1/5/6 array, so it’s a good place to put your backups of things like /boot. For “ultimate” backup, I usually use huge (e.g. 4TB or larger) external USB disk drives. I don’t RAID them, instead I have two or three and rotate amongst them using each one for a week, then swapping it out for the next one. The currently offline drive(s) I keep in a fire-proof safe, preferably in a separate building from the server… > >> >> [2] There's no particular point in putting swap on a redundant RAID. If your swap develops a bad spot, you probably want to boot from a CD into rescue mode ASAP so you can take necessary measures to fix the problem. Using RAID1 for swap would just mask the problem -- possibly until it's too late. >> >> [3] Conversely, everything else on the system wants to be redundantly protected. If I have three or more disks, I'll use RAID5; with four or more I might opt for RAID6. >> >> Here's an example: >> >> rbthomas@monk:~$ lsblk >> NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT >> sda 8:0 0 465.8G 0 disk >> |-sda1 8:1 0 953M 0 part /boot >> |-sda2 8:2 0 18.6G 0 part >> | `-md0 9:0 0 37.3G 0 raid0 [SWAP] >> |-sda3 8:3 0 1K 0 part >> `-sda5 8:5 0 446.2G 0 part >> `-md1 9:1 0 446.1G 0 raid1 >> |-root-root 253:0 0 18.6G 0 lvm / >> `-root-home 253:3 0 210G 0 lvm /home >> sdb 8:16 0 465.8G 0 disk >> |-sdb1 8:17 0 953M 0 part >> |-sdb2 8:18 0 18.6G 0 part >> | `-md0 9:0 0 37.3G 0 raid0 [SWAP] >> |-sdb3 8:19 0 1K 0 part >> `-sdb5 8:21 0 446.2G 0 part >> `-md1 9:1 0 446.1G 0 raid1 >> |-root-root 253:0 0 18.6G 0 lvm / >> `-root-home 253:3 0 210G 0 lvm /home >> sr0 11:0 1 1024M 0 rom >> >> >> Enjoy! >> Rick > >
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| From | ray <ray@aarden.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-09-09 04:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q6CZH-5Oh-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157545 |
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 3:50:04 AM UTC-5, Rick Thomas wrote: > Hi Ray, > > I'll try to answer your questions... > > On Sep 7, 2015, at 4:36 PM, ray wrote: > > > Rick, > > > > Thank you for responding and providing all the info. > > > > On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 6:20:07 AM UTC-5, Rick Thomas wrote: > >> On Sep 5, 2015, at 7:24 PM, ray wrote: > >> <snip> > > I have 3 pairs of SSDs, each pair in a RAID0. > > I would use RAID1 on each pair (3 SSDs worth of "usable" space), or RAID5 or 6 on a larger aggregate. E.g. RAID6 on all 6 drives (gives 4 SSDs worth of "usable" space), or RAID5 on 6 drives (gives 5 SSDs worth of "usable" space). Each of those configurations can survive a loss of one SSD (or two, in the case of RAID6) without data loss. > > Your choice of RAID0 in pairs gives the full 6 SSDs worth of "usable" space, but has zero redundancy. If that works for you, that's great. > > I've got enough experience (40 years) as a sysadmin to have seen users tearing hair over lost data (I always had backups -- often tape in those days -- so the only thing really lost was uptime, but you get the point...) ( When I bought a tape real for the IBM 360, I held onto my boxes of cards for 4 months. I only had to use them once when I overwrote my tape with an empty library. I keep the tape for 5 years until I was sure there would be nothing to that could read it. My new storage was 8" floppies.) > > In case it's not clear, "usable" means space left over after subtracting out all the redundant data in the array. > > > > >> > >> I configure a small (<1GB) "/boot" partition as a primary partition (e.g. /dev/sda1) on one of the disks, with the same space on the other disk unused. [1] I make another primary partition (e.g. /dev/sd[ab]2), on each of the disks, sized to be one half of the size I want for my swap. The rest of the space on each disk goes into a single, large, logical partition (e.g. /dev/sd[ab]5). Yes, I have made space on other disks for this also. I don't know how to use them but it seemed the redundancy may come in handy. > >> > > This is similar to my setup. I have the swaps on a separate RAID0. > > Should work fine. Of course you should read Pascal's post for a different point of view. Yes, those consideration are ringing in my head. It will be a trade-off consideration from now on. > > > > >> The two swap partitions I set up as a RAID0 (e.g. /dev/md0). This will be my system swap. [2] > >> > >> The two large logical partitions, I configure into a RAID1 (e.g. /dev/md1). [3] > >> > > I made my large partition a primary. Could this be problematic? > > It would only be a problem if you need another primary partition for something. You only get 3 primary partitions on a disk, so I like to leave one free "just incase". > > > <snip> > >> > > I would like to know more about the purpose of these criteria - please. > > Putting /tmp on tmpfs is for speed. If your /tmp usage fits in RAM (after allowing for apps, data, and disk buffering) you get RAM speed access to your temporary data. If it overflows, then the excess goes into swap, so you're no worse off than if you had /tmp on hard disk in the first place. This can make large compilations (as an example) run *much* faster. On the other hand, if you are tight on RAM, putting /tmp on disk doesn't hurt, and eliminates a source of contention for RAM which is assumed to be a scarce resource. This sounds like an experiment I will need to exercize. > > The 50% figure is just a rule of thumb I picked up over the years. There's nothing magic about it. And, as always, YMMV. It's highly application dependent. > > > <snip> > > It might make sense to create a logical volume with some of the unused space in the volume group called (for lack of a better name) /backup. It's "reliable" in the sense that it resides on a RAID1/5/6 array, so it's a good place to put your backups of things like /boot. For "ultimate" backup, I usually use huge (e.g. 4TB or larger) external USB disk drives. I don't RAID them, instead I have two or three and rotate amongst them using each one for a week, then swapping it out for the next one. The currently offline drive(s) I keep in a fire-proof safe, preferably in a separate building from the server... > Thanks, Ray
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