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ask.debian.net

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  ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 04:50 +0200
    Re: ask.debian.net Riley Baird <BM-2cVqnDuYbAU5do2DfJTrN7ZbAJ246S4XiX@bitmessage.ch> - 2015-08-28 07:30 +0200
      Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 14:30 +0200
        Re: ask.debian.net Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 14:30 +0200
          Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 14:40 +0200
            Re: ask.debian.net Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-28 16:00 +0200
              Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 16:10 +0200
            Re: ask.debian.net Mike Castle <dalgoda+debian@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 21:20 +0200
              Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 21:30 +0200
          Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 16:50 +0200
            Re: ask.debian.net Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 17:20 +0200
              Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 17:30 +0200
                Re: ask.debian.net Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-28 19:50 +0200
                  Re: ask.debian.net Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 20:20 +0200
                  Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 21:00 +0200
          Re: ask.debian.net Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 16:50 +0200
        Re: ask.debian.net "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2015-08-28 14:40 +0200
          Re: ask.debian.net Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> - 2015-08-28 14:40 +0200
    debian.net end-user information (was: ask.debian.net) Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2015-09-08 01:50 +0200

#156933 — ask.debian.net

Hello everyone, 

I am curious if anyone knows who runs ask.debian.net or *.debian.net in
general?

Best, 
Lev

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#156936

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> I am curious if anyone knows who runs ask.debian.net or *.debian.net in
> general?

debian.net services are unofficial; they are just entries in a DNS
table.

As for ask.debian.net, I don't know who runs it, but it's pretty much
dead.

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#156951

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 03:24:52PM +1000, Riley Baird wrote:
> > I am curious if anyone knows who runs ask.debian.net or *.debian.net in
> > general?
> 
> debian.net services are unofficial; they are just entries in a DNS
> table.

Right, but who owns debian.net?
> 
> As for ask.debian.net, I don't know who runs it, but it's pretty much
> dead.
Exactly, the reason why I ask this question is because I want to bring it
back to life. I think part of the reason why it was so unsuccessful is
because Shapado is buggy, unusable, an appears to no longer be
maintained. I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
section and I wanted to replace shapado with a more modern and
sustainable Q&A format, specifically discourse[1]. 

So if I could figure out who runs ask.debian.net we can work on perhaps
importing some of the old questions into the new platform. And if that
does not work we can always create a separate subdomain on debian.net
which is why it would be great to get in touch with whoever has the
power to do that. 

Thank you!
Lev

[1] http://www.discourse.org/

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#156953

On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
> section

Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?

Lisi

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#156955

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 01:27:20PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> > I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
> > section
> 
> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?

I personally have no problem with the mailing lists or forums. I think
some people (especially new comers) can get lost in mailing lists. Also
both mailing lists and forums are harder to search for actual answers to
questions. 

I think a proper Q&A platform (i.e. not Shapado) solves a couple of
these problems. 

1. It is very approachable to anyone since a lot of people have already
used Stack Overflow. 

2. It has better search tools. 

3. Actual Answers float to the top (instead of having to read through en
endless stream of threads or forum pages). This is great and provides an
added value of creating a sort of mini knowledge base. 

Mailing lists and forums are great for when you have a specific
question. I think the Q&A format is better when you are randomly
searching for hints since it exposes potential answers and makes them
easier to find. 
> 
> Lisi
> 

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#156966

On Fri 28 Aug 2015 at 08:34:18 -0400, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 01:27:20PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> > > I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
> > > section
> > 
> > Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
> 
> I personally have no problem with the mailing lists or forums. I think
> some people (especially new comers) can get lost in mailing lists. Also
> both mailing lists and forums are harder to search for actual answers to
> questions. 
> 
> I think a proper Q&A platform (i.e. not Shapado) solves a couple of
> these problems. 
> 
> 1. It is very approachable to anyone since a lot of people have already
> used Stack Overflow. 
> 
> 2. It has better search tools. 
> 
> 3. Actual Answers float to the top (instead of having to read through en
> endless stream of threads or forum pages). This is great and provides an
> added value of creating a sort of mini knowledge base. 
> 
> Mailing lists and forums are great for when you have a specific
> question. I think the Q&A format is better when you are randomly
> searching for hints since it exposes potential answers and makes them
> easier to find.

A worthy objective but I wonder whether the amount of work would result
in a more useful site with more eyes. The views of two users are at

  http://ask.debian.net/questions/this-website-ask-debian-net-is-abandoned

You might have a useful response to your plans by using the admin
contact given at

  https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains

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#156968

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 02:57:25PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 28 Aug 2015 at 08:34:18 -0400, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 01:27:20PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> > > > I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
> > > > section
> > > 
> > > Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
> > 
> > I personally have no problem with the mailing lists or forums. I think
> > some people (especially new comers) can get lost in mailing lists. Also
> > both mailing lists and forums are harder to search for actual answers to
> > questions. 
> > 
> > I think a proper Q&A platform (i.e. not Shapado) solves a couple of
> > these problems. 
> > 
> > 1. It is very approachable to anyone since a lot of people have already
> > used Stack Overflow. 
> > 
> > 2. It has better search tools. 
> > 
> > 3. Actual Answers float to the top (instead of having to read through en
> > endless stream of threads or forum pages). This is great and provides an
> > added value of creating a sort of mini knowledge base. 
> > 
> > Mailing lists and forums are great for when you have a specific
> > question. I think the Q&A format is better when you are randomly
> > searching for hints since it exposes potential answers and makes them
> > easier to find.
> 
> A worthy objective but I wonder whether the amount of work would result
> in a more useful site with more eyes. The views of two users are at
> 
>   http://ask.debian.net/questions/this-website-ask-debian-net-is-abandoned
I read this posting and it made me sad. It is pretty much what inspired
me to do this in the first place. I think we can do a better job. 

I tried to participate in ask.debian.net but Shapado is unbearable. For
instance every time I responded it would duplicate the response (some UI
bug). I think shapado had some good intentions but like many projects
simply dissapeared from the world. 
> 
> You might have a useful response to your plans by using the admin
> contact given at
> 
>   https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains
> 
Thanks for this link, I think this is what I was looking for! 

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#156997

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 5:34 AM, Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> wrote:
> 1. It is very approachable to anyone since a lot of people have already
> used Stack Overflow.
>
> 2. It has better search tools.
>
> 3. Actual Answers float to the top (instead of having to read through en
> endless stream of threads or forum pages). This is great and provides an
> added value of creating a sort of mini knowledge base.

Personally, I find all three of these points to be false (at least
when it comes to SO style interfaces).

1. I hate having to have new userids and passwords just to use another
damned site.
2. I have more luck using a general search engine (in my case, Google)
than SO's search.
3. In SO I almost always have to read the entire thread anyway to get
additional context about the top voted answer, and often it's not he
best answer.

Maybe this has more to do with the fact that I tend to hunt for harder
questions.  Maybe that style works for nice simple questions, useful
for those just starting out.  But once you need something meatier,
just not as useful.

mrc

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#156999

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 08/28/2015 03:12 PM, Mike Castle wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 5:34 AM, Lev Lazinskiy <lev@levlaz.org> wrote:
>> 1. It is very approachable to anyone since a lot of people have already
>> used Stack Overflow.
>>
>> 2. It has better search tools.
>>
>> 3. Actual Answers float to the top (instead of having to read through en
>> endless stream of threads or forum pages). This is great and provides an
>> added value of creating a sort of mini knowledge base.
> 
> Personally, I find all three of these points to be false (at least
> when it comes to SO style interfaces).
> 
> 1. I hate having to have new userids and passwords just to use another
> damned site.

Discourse has Twitter, Facebook and Google OAuth which I will enable.
Also I am going to try to plug into the new Debian SSO.

> 2. I have more luck using a general search engine (in my case, Google)
> than SO's search.

Most Google searches for me result in a SO thread. The difference is
that when the result is a mailing list thread or a forum posting it is
hard to find the actual answer because its buried somewhere. More often
than not the "Accepted Answer" usually gets me to where I need to be in SO.

> 3. In SO I almost always have to read the entire thread anyway to get
> additional context about the top voted answer, and often it's not he
> best answer.
> 
> Maybe this has more to do with the fact that I tend to hunt for harder
> questions.  Maybe that style works for nice simple questions, useful
> for those just starting out.  But once you need something meatier,
> just not as useful.

I agree on some of your other points. What do you think the best place
to find answers to the "hard" question is?
> 
> mrc
> 

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#156971

On 08/28/2015 10:40 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
> On 08/28/2015 08:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
>>> section
>>
>> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
> 
> 
> Also, out of interest, if the OP cannot use whois to reveal all the
> needed info, I would suggest running a support group to those with much
> more experience. Have a nice day. Ric

Not sure what you mean by that. This is the information I was looking
for https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains .. none of this is in the
WHOIS.

Thanks,
Lev

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#156976

On 08/28/2015 10:45 AM, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>
>
> On 08/28/2015 10:40 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
>> On 08/28/2015 08:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>>> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
>>>> section
>>>
>>> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
>>
>>
>> Also, out of interest, if the OP cannot use whois to reveal all the
>> needed info, I would suggest running a support group to those with much
>> more experience. Have a nice day. Ric
>
> Not sure what you mean by that. This is the information I was looking
> for https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains .. none of this is in the
> WHOIS.


There is a mailing address and phone number listed. At any rate, you can 
always register a new domainname. Ric


-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#156980

On 08/28/2015 11:14 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
> On 08/28/2015 10:45 AM, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 08/28/2015 10:40 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
>>> On 08/28/2015 08:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>>> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>>>> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
>>>>> section
>>>>
>>>> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, out of interest, if the OP cannot use whois to reveal all the
>>> needed info, I would suggest running a support group to those with much
>>> more experience. Have a nice day. Ric
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by that. This is the information I was looking
>> for https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains .. none of this is in the
>> WHOIS.
> 
> 
> There is a mailing address and phone number listed. At any rate, you can
> always register a new domainname. Ric

Ok. The other people on this list got me the information that I needed
and I am in the process of setting up discourse now for ask.debian.net
thanks to this list.

I don't think you understood the nature of my request but if it was not
for this list I have no idea how long it would have taken to get in
touch with the person I needed.

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#156994

On Fri 28 Aug 2015 at 11:28:20 -0400, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:

> 
> 
> On 08/28/2015 11:14 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
> > On 08/28/2015 10:45 AM, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 08/28/2015 10:40 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
> >>> On 08/28/2015 08:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> >>>> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> >>>>> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
> >>>>> section
> >>>>
> >>>> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Also, out of interest, if the OP cannot use whois to reveal all the
> >>> needed info, I would suggest running a support group to those with much
> >>> more experience. Have a nice day. Ric
> >>
> >> Not sure what you mean by that. This is the information I was looking
> >> for https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains .. none of this is in the
> >> WHOIS.
> > 
> > 
> > There is a mailing address and phone number listed. At any rate, you can
> > always register a new domainname. Ric
> 
> Ok. The other people on this list got me the information that I needed
> and I am in the process of setting up discourse now for ask.debian.net
> thanks to this list.

You are? That's quick! Discourse looks interesting but it is worth
querying whether the quality of the software running a site is critical
to the site's popularity. ask.debian.net started off well enough; quite
a number of developers answered questions. But, as time went on, it
declined. My view is that this mailing list and forums.debian.net are
enough for the Debian help system.

Be that as it may, would it be it be asking too much to keep this list
informed on progress. Thanks for your work.

> I don't think you understood the nature of my request but if it was not
> for this list I have no idea how long it would have taken to get in
> touch with the person I needed.

I think Ric does understand the request but cannot resist putting the
boot in. :) It's all part of the debian-user experience.

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#156995

On 08/28/2015 01:43 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 28 Aug 2015 at 11:28:20 -0400, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 08/28/2015 11:14 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
>>> On 08/28/2015 10:45 AM, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/28/2015 10:40 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
>>>>> On 08/28/2015 08:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>>>>>> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
>>>>>>> section
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, out of interest, if the OP cannot use whois to reveal all the
>>>>> needed info, I would suggest running a support group to those with much
>>>>> more experience. Have a nice day. Ric
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what you mean by that. This is the information I was looking
>>>> for https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains .. none of this is in the
>>>> WHOIS.
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a mailing address and phone number listed. At any rate, you can
>>> always register a new domainname. Ric
>>
>> Ok. The other people on this list got me the information that I needed
>> and I am in the process of setting up discourse now for ask.debian.net
>> thanks to this list.
>
> You are? That's quick! Discourse looks interesting but it is worth
> querying whether the quality of the software running a site is critical
> to the site's popularity. ask.debian.net started off well enough; quite
> a number of developers answered questions. But, as time went on, it
> declined. My view is that this mailing list and forums.debian.net are
> enough for the Debian help system.
>
> Be that as it may, would it be it be asking too much to keep this list
> informed on progress. Thanks for your work.
>
>> I don't think you understood the nature of my request but if it was not
>> for this list I have no idea how long it would have taken to get in
>> touch with the person I needed.
>
> I think Ric does understand the request but cannot resist putting the
> boot in. :) It's all part of the debian-user experience.

Heh, I understood the nature of the request perfectly. All the info 
needed was available from the get go with a simple whois. Ric


-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#156996

> On Aug 28, 2015, at 1:43 PM, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri 28 Aug 2015 at 11:28:20 -0400, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 08/28/2015 11:14 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
>>>> On 08/28/2015 10:45 AM, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 08/28/2015 10:40 AM, Ric Moore wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/28/2015 08:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>>>>>>> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
>>>>>>> section
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, out of interest, if the OP cannot use whois to reveal all the
>>>>> needed info, I would suggest running a support group to those with much
>>>>> more experience. Have a nice day. Ric
>>>> 
>>>> Not sure what you mean by that. This is the information I was looking
>>>> for https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains .. none of this is in the
>>>> WHOIS.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There is a mailing address and phone number listed. At any rate, you can
>>> always register a new domainname. Ric
>> 
>> Ok. The other people on this list got me the information that I needed
>> and I am in the process of setting up discourse now for ask.debian.net
>> thanks to this list.
> 
> You are? That's quick! Discourse looks interesting but it is worth
> querying whether the quality of the software running a site is critical
> to the site's popularity. ask.debian.net started off well enough; quite
> a number of developers answered questions. But, as time went on, it
> declined. My view is that this mailing list and forums.debian.net are
> enough for the Debian help system.
> 
> Be that as it may, would it be it be asking too much to keep this list
> informed on progress. Thanks for your work.

I think it's worth giving discourse a shot. The Shapado site is depressing and we may as well make some use of that subdomain. I've purchased a TLS cert and secured a server for a year so perhaps we can reevaluate the success of the site at that point. 

I will be sure to provide an update on my progress. 
> 
>> I don't think you understood the nature of my request but if it was not
>> for this list I have no idea how long it would have taken to get in
>> touch with the person I needed.
> 
> I think Ric does understand the request but cannot resist putting the
> boot in. :) It's all part of the debian-user experience.

Is it? If so that's a horrible user experience. I've been a part of the Debian community for many years and have somehow managed to get help and help others without trolling people.
> 

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#156972

On 08/28/2015 08:27 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 28 August 2015 13:18:33 Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
>> I think that there is some value to have a Q&A style support
>> section
>
> Out of interest, what is wrong with the mailing list and the forum?


Also, out of interest, if the OP cannot use whois to reveal all the 
needed info, I would suggest running a support group to those with much 
more experience. Have a nice day. Ric


-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#156956

Hi,

Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> Right, but who owns debian.net?

The question about domain ownership is answered by

  whois debian.net

which says among lots of legalese

  Registrant Name: SPI Hostmaster
  Registrant Organization: Software in the Public Interest, Inc. - Debian Project

plus a postal address, phone number, and e-mail address.
Same for "Admin" and "Tech" contact.

I assume that "Admin" knows who has the passwords and
maybe where the stored data can be found.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#156957

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 02:31:36PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
Hi Thomas, 
> Hi,
> 
> Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> > Right, but who owns debian.net?
> 
> The question about domain ownership is answered by
> 
>   whois debian.net
Didn't even think of doing WHOIS. :) Thanks this may be the best
appraoch. 

Best, 
Lev

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#157533 — debian.net end-user information (was: ask.debian.net)

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015, Lev Lazinskiy wrote:
> I am curious if anyone knows who runs ask.debian.net or *.debian.net in
> general?


https://wiki.debian.org/DebianNetDomains


In a nutshell:

In a CLI (command line interface), type:

    host -t txt ask.debian.net

It will anwser:

    ask.debian.net descriptive text "Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org>"
    ask.debian.net descriptive text "PGP 4900 707D DC5C 07F2 DECB 0283 9C31 503C 6D86 6396"

This will work for most entries in *.debian.net. 

As for "debian.net" itself, it is owned by the Debian project through the
SPI non-profit.  It is an official Debian project service used by DDs to
provide *unofficial* Debian services (such as ask.debian.net, and many
others, refer to the wiki page above).

As a rule, the person pointed to by a <something>.debian.net TXT record is
the one ultimately responsible for that particular debian.net service.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh

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