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Groups > linux.debian.user > #156977 > unrolled thread

Another system management tool to disappear.

Started byRenaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>
First post2015-08-28 17:20 +0200
Last post2015-08-30 15:10 +0200
Articles 6 on this page of 126 — 27 participants

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Contents

  Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-28 17:20 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 17:30 +0200
      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 13:40 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 13:30 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 14:40 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 21:40 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-28 18:00 +0200
      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 18:20 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-08-29 01:50 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 12:20 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 15:10 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 15:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:00 +0200
                  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-08-29 16:30 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-08-29 17:40 +0200
                  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
                  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-30 02:40 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 10:50 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 14:20 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 15:00 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-30 14:20 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-30 10:50 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-29 15:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:30 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 23:50 +0200
      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 00:50 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-08-30 17:10 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 17:30 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-08-30 20:40 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 21:10 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 21:00 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 21:20 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-30 21:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 22:40 +0200
                  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2015-08-31 00:00 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 06:50 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 12:20 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 22:10 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 16:20 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 20:20 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T. J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 22:00 +0200
                              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 17:10 +0200
                                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-02 17:20 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 11:30 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 14:30 +0200
                        Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                          Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 18:10 +0200
                            Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-01 03:00 +0200
                              Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 05:30 +0200
                                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2015-09-01 11:40 +0200
                                  Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:50 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:10 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2015-09-01 15:50 +0200
                              Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 16:30 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-01 21:50 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 11:10 +0200
                              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-05 06:00 +0200
                  Re: uselessd Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-30 23:30 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-31 09:50 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 14:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-31 14:50 +0200
                  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 18:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 17:00 +0200
                  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 17:40 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 18:10 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 20:00 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:30 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2015-08-31 20:40 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:50 +0200
                              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 21:10 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 18:50 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:10 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 19:20 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
                              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 19:50 +0200
                                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:30 +0200
                                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-08-31 21:20 +0200
                                  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2015-08-31 21:50 +0200
                                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-02 10:20 +0200
                                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 12:30 +0200
                                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-03 07:50 +0200
                                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 08:30 +0200
                                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-03 16:20 +0200
                                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiatipy.org> - 2015-09-02 12:50 +0200
                                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-09-02 12:50 +0200
                                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-09-03 17:10 +0200
                                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2015-09-03 18:50 +0200
                                              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-09-03 19:40 +0200
                                                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2015-09-03 21:10 +0200
                                              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-03 21:50 +0200
                                                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-09-03 22:30 +0200
                                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-03 08:30 +0200
                                  Re: How to exit /bin/sh Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 23:20 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 18:40 +0200
                      Re: "su is really a broken concept" Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-01 02:50 +0200
                        Re: "su is really a broken concept" "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 03:00 +0200
                          Re: "su is really a broken concept" Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-03 01:20 +0200
                            Re: "su is really a broken concept" "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 10:40 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 20:50 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 21:20 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 13:40 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:20 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 16:00 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 16:10 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 16:20 +0200
                    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 18:10 +0200
                      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 04:30 +0200
                        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 15:40 +0200
                          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 16:30 +0200
                            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 02:20 +0200
                              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-03 05:00 +0200
                                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2015-09-03 05:40 +0200
                  Re: No-one working on 'su' has stated that they will stop. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 18:30 +0200
                    Re: No-one working on 'su' has stated that they will stop. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 07:50 +0200
                Can malware qualify as free software? Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                  Re: Can malware qualify as free software? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                  Re: Can malware qualify as free software? Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 18:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 10:10 +0200
      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 03:00 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 15:10 +0200

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#157228 — Can malware qualify as free software?

FromJonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com>
Date2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
SubjectCan malware qualify as free software?
Message-ID<q3zvm-3E1-47@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#157208
The Wanderer:
> Some people develop and distribute malware as free software. Do they deserve to be treated with respect for doing that?

I strongly suspect that malwares do not provide freedoms #1, #2, or #3 
out of the Four Freedoms.

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#157229 — Re: Can malware qualify as free software?

FromThe Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm>
Date2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Can malware qualify as free software?
Message-ID<q3zvm-3E1-49@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#157228

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2015-08-31 at 11:25, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

> The Wanderer:
> 
>> Some people develop and distribute malware as free software. Do
>> they deserve to be treated with respect for doing that?
> 
> I strongly suspect that malwares do not provide freedoms #1, #2, or
> #3 out of the Four Freedoms.

They don't provide them to the people on whose machines they get
installed, but those people are not the "users" of the malware.

The "users" of the malware are the people who deploy it. If a malware
toolkit is provided with source, and under a "modify and redistribute as
you see fit" license, I don't see how it fails any of the Four Freedoms.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#157236 — Re: Can malware qualify as free software?

FromReco <recoverym4n@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-31 18:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Can malware qualify as free software?
Message-ID<q3Arp-50w-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#157228
 Hi.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:25:29 +0100
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com>
wrote:

> The Wanderer:
> > Some people develop and distribute malware as free software. Do they deserve to be treated with respect for doing that?
> 
> I strongly suspect that malwares do not provide freedoms #1, #2, or #3 
> out of the Four Freedoms.
> 

Depends on malware we're talking about. For example, famous Metasploit
Framework is provided as 3-clause BSD (although parts of it are
licensed on terms of GPL2, MIT and LGPL) - [1]. Free software at its
finest.

[1] https://github.com/rapid7/metasploit-framework/blob/master/LICENSE

Reco

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#157361

FromAndrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au>
Date2015-09-03 10:10 +0200
Message-ID<q4xKO-69T-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#157208
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 31/08/2015 10:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
> Agreed. For what it's worth, I don't think this particular
> iteration of the discussion has gotten nearly as heated or as
> hostile or as harmful as many of the previous ones have done.

Perhaps it is simply because those that are against systemd on the
whole have had enough of beating their head against a brick wall.  It
doesn't mean that the problems themselves have gone away.

And as I've said before, having a non pro-systemd view is a recipe to
be called a troll and worse; irrespective of any actual facts.

I'm sure many have taken up Gentoo and/or a flavour of BSD ... if they
can; others will do so later when they must.

Kind Regards
AndrewM

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#157009

FromRic Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-29 03:00 +0200
Message-ID<q2CEV-2V2-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#157002
On 08/28/2015 05:45 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 28 August 2015 16:16:11 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:
>> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su:
>>
>> https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/
>>
>> Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have
>> _everything_ incorporated into systemd ?
>
> How come that Lennart Poettering is so powerful/important?  "He's just this
> guy."
>
> But he says something will/must happen, and we all jump to. :-?
Heh, it's a matter of which devil do you chose?  :) Ric


-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#157121

FromJoel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-30 15:10 +0200
Message-ID<q3awW-1s7-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#156977
On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:16 AM, Renaud  OLGIATI
<renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> wrote:
> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su:
>
> https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/
>
> Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have _everything_
> incorporated into systemd ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.

My interpretation of that blog post ranges from

    He's trying to imitate Ted Unangst's doas, but decided sudo isn't
a good enough target.

to

    This is more of his attempting to extend the ability of systemd to
completely wrap the kernel.

As a median interpretation, their group has tried to use su for
something they have in their roadmap, recognized the spec puts su
outside their planned use, and is working on a tool similar to su,
which provides a bit more of the fine-grained control they think they
need (and less of the fine-grained control they don't want).

And, because of the way they do things, they are currently selling
their shiny new tool as an alternative to su, which means they may
soon be coming around trying to get support from a lot of young,
ambitious new programmers willing to develop a whole lot of code to
replace a lot of system scripts that use su.

Just more of that re-inventing the wheel thing over there. Since
debian has decided to bring systemd in, it will affect us, but
probably not this year.

Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html

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