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kvm/qemu

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  kvm/qemu "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2025-01-07 21:20 +0100
    Re: kvm/qemu Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 21:30 +0100
    Virt manager and dependencies to install kvm/quemu [WAS Re: kvm/qemu] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-01-07 21:30 +0100
    Re: kvm/qemu George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-07 21:50 +0100
      Re: kvm/qemu Detlef Vollmann <dv@vollmann.ch> - 2025-01-07 22:40 +0100
      Re: kvm/qemu "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2025-01-08 03:30 +0100
    Re: kvm/qemu Frank Guthausen <fg.debian@shimps.de> - 2025-01-07 21:50 +0100
    Re: kvm/qemu Detlef Vollmann <dv@vollmann.ch> - 2025-01-07 22:40 +0100
    Re: kvm/qemu jman <debian-user@city17.xyz> - 2025-01-07 22:50 +0100
    Re: kvm/qemu gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-08 00:50 +0100
      Re: kvm/qemu debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2025-01-08 13:00 +0100
      Re: kvm/qemu Detlef Vollmann <dv@vollmann.ch> - 2025-01-08 21:30 +0100
      Re: kvm/qemu Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2025-01-18 08:20 +0100
        Re: kvm/qemu George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-18 09:00 +0100

#276399 — kvm/qemu

These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...

A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of how to set it up would also be helpful.


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#276400

On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 3:12 PM Roy J. Tellason, Sr. <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:
>
> These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...
>
> A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of how to set it up would also be helpful.

QEMU/KVM/libvirt is my preferred virtualization software nowadays. In
the past I used VMware on OS X, and VirtuaBox just about everywhere
else. But I got tired of VirtualBox breaking with each kernel upgrade,
and waiting for Oracle to fix it.

QEMU/KVM drivers are maintained by the kernel team, so they always
work. The drivers are signed by the kernel, so you don't need to jump
through hoops when using Secure Boot.

You can find documentation at libvirt, <https://wiki.libvirt.org/>.

The one downside (to me) was networking. It can be complicated to
setup. I like my VM guests to get an IP address from my DHCP server,
and I like to SSH into my VM guests. You need to setup a bridge for
that, and that takes extra work for QEMU/KVM. And it is not documented
well. In contrast, it "just works" under VMware and VirtualBox.

If you want the bridge, then see "Setting bridge for VMs IP assignment
by router's DHCP server,"
<https://lists.libvirt.org/archives/list/users@lists.libvirt.org/thread/Q2BEGIE2SGSQKGTKOW57LVWT334MCALK/>.

Jeff

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#276401 — Virt manager and dependencies to install kvm/quemu [WAS Re: kvm/qemu]

On Tue, Jan 07, 2025 at 03:15:14PM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...
> 

I tend to use virt-manager as a nice GUI front end to these: it should pull
in some python and GUI libraries, virsh, libvirt and kvm.

Hope this helps,

Andrew Cater
(amacater@debian.org)

> 

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#276402

On Wednesday, 08-01-2025 at 07:15 Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...
> 
> A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of how to set it up would also be helpful.

https://wiki.debian.org/KVM

For a basic installation that also includes virt-manager in the installation, I do the following:
(these packages can be installed from Synaptic or from a terminal using apt, since I will be in a terminal for adding my UserID to the libvirt group, I may as well use apt) :

# export PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin
# apt install qemu-system libvirt-daemon-system virt-manager
# adduser <youruser> libvirt
# adduser <youruser> kvm

The above installation does not add nested vitalisation (i.e. running a hypervisor in a VM), which is something I have fun playing with from time to time, but is not normally something most people want to do)
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/using-nested-virtualization-in-kvm/

I recommend the use of Virtio Drivers for network and for storage, QXL or virtio drivers for video.

If you want to install Windows in a VM, virtio drivers can be useful:
https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/WindowsGuestDrivers/Download_Drivers


I have never implement VGAPassthrough, to me seems like it could make your system a bit unstable.

https://wiki.debian.org/VGAPassthrough

George.


https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_virtualization/4.3/html/virtual_machine_management_guide/sect-other_virtual_machine_tasks#Configuring_qxl_drivers_on_virtual_machines

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/QEMU/Guest_graphics_acceleration

https://phoenixnap.com/kb/ubuntu-install-kvm

> 
> 
> -- 
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
> M Dakin
> 
> 

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#276405

On 1/7/25 21:42, George at Clug wrote:
> # export PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin
> # apt install qemu-system libvirt-daemon-system virt-manager
> # adduser <youruser> libvirt
> # adduser <youruser> kvm

I never had any problems without being member of group 'kvm'.
But maybe that's because I do everything KVM related through
libvirt.

> 
> The above installation does not add nested vitalisation (i.e. running a hypervisor in a VM), which is something I have fun playing with from time to time, but is not normally something most people want to do)

I don't think that you need any extra installation for
nested virtualization, just CPU passthrough to get the
processor features required for virtualization.

   Detlef

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#276412

On Tuesday 07 January 2025 03:42:44 pm George at Clug wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, 08-01-2025 at 07:15 Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...
> > 
> > A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of how to set it up would also be helpful.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/KVM

Looks like I have some work to do...
 
> For a basic installation that also includes virt-manager in the installation, I do the following:
> (these packages can be installed from Synaptic or from a terminal using apt, since I will be in a terminal for adding my UserID to the libvirt group, I may as well use apt) :
> 
> # export PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin
> # apt install qemu-system libvirt-daemon-system virt-manager
> # adduser <youruser> libvirt
> # adduser <youruser> kvm

It's been a while since I invoked apt,  but I did work with it some.  This should not be a problem.
 
> The above installation does not add nested vitalisation (i.e. running a hypervisor in a VM), which is something I have fun playing with from time to time, but is not normally something most people want to do)
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/using-nested-virtualization-in-kvm/

I don't see a need for that at this point.
 
> I recommend the use of Virtio Drivers for network and for storage, QXL or virtio drivers for video.

Okay.
 
> If you want to install Windows in a VM, virtio drivers can be useful:
> https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/WindowsGuestDrivers/Download_Drivers
 
There is no microsoft product of any kind running here.  Some years back,  my lady's computer running it crashed due to a hard drive failure,  and when a replacement drive had been put in,  I handed her an Ubuntu CD (what I had handy at the moment) and said "Here,  try this out and see what you think."  And things went on from there.  She's currently running Mint,  and having no problems doing what she wants to do on her computer.  And she's 79!

> I have never implement VGAPassthrough, to me seems like it could make your system a bit unstable.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/VGAPassthrough

I looked that over briefly,  and don't see where I'd need that either.

Thanks for the links.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#276403

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 15:15:14 -0500
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:
> 
> [...] These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of
> packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be
> missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?

The package names switched some years ago IIRC. In synaptic, please
look for the following package names.  This should be enough to use
KVM with command line utils. You can install them step by step.

qemu-utils
qemu-block-extra
ibverbs-providers
libvirt-daemon
virtinst
qemu-system-x86
libxml2-utils
netcat-openbsd
libvirt-clients-qemu
iptables
libvirt-daemon-system
parted
mdevctl
dnsmasq-base
dns-root-data


Finally, a useful GUI tool is:
virt-manager


To avoid strange effects involving missing permissions, you might
want to add your usual user to the groups ``kvm'' and ``libvirt''.
-- 
kind regards
Frank

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#276404

On 1/7/25 21:15, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...

My list of packages that I use for installing virt-manager and
KVM/QEMU is:
  - qemu-system-x86 # the base
  - bridge-utils    # for bridged networking
  - libvirt-daemon libvirt-daemon-system # basic libvirt
  - virt-viewer virt-manager libvirt-clients # libvirt tools
  - spice-client-gtk # SPICE for display driver

Some of the packages might be drawn in as dependencies for
virt-manager, but I just play safe.

> A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of how to set it up would also be helpful.

In addition to the links by Jeff the Debian wiki:
<https://wiki.debian.org/libvirt>
This has some more links.

One hint to virt-manager/libvirt: make sure to use
"qemu://system" as connection, not "qemu://session".
To make sure the "virsh" command uses this automatically,
create a file "$HOME/.config/libvirt/libvirt.conf" with
a single line:
uri_default = "qemu:///system"

And make sure to add your user to the group "libvirt"!

And if you want to run inside guests licensed programs that
hash the hardware, be aware that the emulated hardware changes
occasionally and old hardware isn't supported anymore.
.
On my trixie/sid system this caused recently my Windows XP
and Microsoft Office 2016 to tell me that I have to re-license
the software.
So I installed KVM/QEMU inside a KVM/QEMU guest with bookworm
and started a backup image, and everything was fine again.
Nested virtualization with KVM/QEMU works nicely.
For the first VM I used CPU passthrough, for the second the CPU
and hardware that I defined when I originally setup the VMs.

Now I also have KVM/QEMU inside of an LXC container running
as I decided this will be less overhead, but it's much harder
to get it running.

At some time I'll try to get KVM/QEMU running inside a docker
container, as this will be even less overhead, but I haven't
started this yet.

   Detlef

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#276406

"Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> writes:

> A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of how to set it up would also be 
> helpful.

As already mentioned libvirt is definitively the way to go but the documentation is not easy to 
digest. At the time (2020) I picked some parts from these two tutorials, today possibly a bit 
outdated:
https://apiraino.github.io/qemu-kvm/
https://apiraino.github.io/qemu-bridge-networking/

KVM virtual machines can be managed by `virsh` (command line) of using a graphical user interface 
like Gnome Boxes[1] (if you're using Gnome) or virt-manager[2] (which I prefer because more 
customizable). I guess if you install one of these, all the dependencies are automatically 
installed.

The Debian Wiki could also help a bit setting the network:
https://wiki.debian.org/KVM#Setting_up_bridge_networking

I have setup a bridge between host and and guest VM and usually get into the VM via SSH. I created a 
script to automate creating a Debian VM. I use a Debian preseed installer to provision the VM.
https://git.sr.ht/~jman/debian-kvm-template

A good piece of advice is setting up your virtual machines as a user and not as root.

Hope it helps!

[0]: https://www.theregister.com/2019/10/04/oracle_virtualbox_merula/
[1]: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Boxes
[2]: https://virt-manager.org/

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#276410

On 1/7/25 15:12, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...

Basically, anything starting with a k came from ingo klockers kde desktop.

qemu OTOH is a tiny kernel that serves as the building foundation for 
other applications. It predates linux but has always been a niche 
product that because it was tiny and had decade long uptimes, but 
limitations that linux blew thru, has remained a niche product. At least 
that is my impression. YMMV.

> A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of how to set it up would also be helpful.
>
>
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#276420

gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
> On 1/7/25 15:12, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible
> > alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new
> > machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic
> > Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing
> > one other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list
> > of packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be
> > missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not
> > averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...  
> 
> Basically, anything starting with a k came from ingo klockers kde
> desktop.

Except for anything where the k means kernel!

> qemu OTOH is a tiny kernel that serves as the building foundation for 
> other applications. It predates linux but has always been a niche 
> product that because it was tiny and had decade long uptimes, but 
> limitations that linux blew thru, has remained a niche product. At
> least that is my impression. YMMV.
> 
> > A pointer to any documentation on these so I can get a good idea of
> > how to set it up would also be helpful.
> >
> >  
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

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#276422

On 1/8/25 00:43, gene heskett wrote:
> 
> On 1/7/25 15:12, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
>> These packages were pointed out to me a while back as a possible 
>> alternative to virtualbox.  While doing a bit of work on the new 
>> machine, I did a quick search using both of those terms in Synaptic 
>> Package Manager,  also updating a couple of files and installing one 
>> other package. These searches each returned a nonntrivial list of 
>> packages,  but none of them was named kvm or qemu,  so I must be 
>> missing something here.  Can any of you guys help me out?  I'm not 
>> averse to other tools,  like apt,  etc. if that's preferable...
> 
> Basically, anything starting with a k came from ingo klockers kde desktop.

While that's true for some packages, it's not true for others
(e.g. related to kernel, kali, kerberos or kubernetes) like KVM.

> qemu OTOH is a tiny kernel that serves as the building foundation for 
> other applications. It predates linux but has always been a niche 
> product that because it was tiny and had decade long uptimes, but 
> limitations that linux blew thru, has remained a niche product. At least 
> that is my impression. YMMV.

QEMU is still the basic tool if you use KVM.

   Detlef

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#276710

On 8/01/25 12:43, gene heskett wrote:
> Basically, anything starting with a k came from ingo klockers kde desktop.

Um - I can find one person called Ingo Klöcker, who doesn't appear to 
have anything to do with KDE. Wikipedia says KDE was founded by Matthias 
Ettrich.

Richard

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#276711

On Saturday, 18-01-2025 at 18:01 Richard Hector wrote:
> On 8/01/25 12:43, gene heskett wrote:
> > Basically, anything starting with a k came from ingo klockers kde desktop.
> 
> Um - I can find one person called Ingo Klöcker, who doesn't appear to 
> have anything to do with KDE. Wikipedia says KDE was founded by Matthias 
> Ettrich.

The Linux world sure is large. I think I use about 0.001% of what is available.  

Debian and Debian XFCE, KDE, Virtual-Manager, KVM, QEMU, Firefox, Chromium, apt, Synaptic, rsync are my most cherished programs, as well as all the other programs that make Linux work so well (e.g. Terminal and other Linux components). 

Then there is also Steam, VLC, Wine, etc which I also make good use of.

Thank you to all who contribute to Linux, big or small !  (including those to make debian-user interesting reading and give me fun distractions to research, lol)

https://linux-kvm.org/page/Main_Page
	KVM (for Kernel-based Virtual Machine) is a full virtualization solution for Linux on x86 hardware containing virtualization extensions (Intel VT or AMD-V). It consists of a loadable kernel module, kvm.ko, that provides the core virtualization infrastructure and a processor specific module, kvm-intel.ko or kvm-amd.ko.

Using KVM, one can run multiple virtual machines running unmodified Linux or Windows images. Each virtual machine has private virtualized hardware: a network card, disk, graphics adapter, etc.

KVM is open source software. The kernel component of KVM is included in mainline Linux, as of 2.6.20. The userspace component of KVM is included in mainline QEMU, as of 1.3. 

https://docs.kde.org/stable5/en/kmail/kmail2/credits-and-licenses.html
Program Development Team

These are the people who deserve the most credit for initially creating KMail and raising it from its birth in 1997 through its early childhood ca. 2005. They may be regarded as the parents of KMail. A handful of them are still contributing code and bug fixes to the project today.

    Laurent Montel (montel at kde org): Maintainer

    Ingo Klöcker (kloecker at kde org): Former maintainer, still active

    ...


https://invent.kde.org/sdk/kompare/-/blob/v3.2.2/ChangeLog?ref_type=tags
Jul    19, 2003 : Otto Bruggeman
	* Backported Ingo Klocker's changes from head to make_it_cool
	  (kompare_shell.cpp 1.34 -> 1.35). This is about being able to
	  configure the shortcuts from kompare_part as well. Thanks Ingo !


https://blogs.kde.org/authors/mahoutsukai/

https://blogs.kde.org/2024/05/20/accessibility-and-a-bit-of-automation-at-the-kde-goals-sprint-in-berlin/


> 
> Richard
> 
> 

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