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Groups > linux.debian.user > #275930 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-12-21 18:50 +0100 |
| Last post | 2024-12-22 17:20 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 132 — 31 participants |
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new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-21 18:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-21 20:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2024-12-21 21:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-22 02:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-22 02:20 +0100
UEFI, Export from Virtualbox [WAS Re: new computer arriving soon] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-22 09:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-26 20:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-26 23:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-12-27 17:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 05:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-31 05:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-31 23:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-01-01 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-01 01:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 15:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Frank Guthausen <fg.debian@shimps.de> - 2025-01-01 15:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 15:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-01 16:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 17:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-01 18:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 18:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 03:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 03:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2025-01-01 17:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-01 18:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-01 22:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2025-01-01 19:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-01 22:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-02 14:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 04:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 17:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-03 13:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 03:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 03:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 04:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 04:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 16:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 17:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 05:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-04 11:20 +0100
Gene and networkmanager (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 04:50 +0100
Re: Gene and networkmanager (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-05 17:20 +0100
/dev/serial/by-id (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 05:00 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-05 17:30 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 03:30 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-06 08:20 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 04:20 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-07 10:00 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-07 14:50 +0100
Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-07 16:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-07 16:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes eben@gmx.us - 2025-01-07 17:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-01-07 17:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes eben@gmx.us - 2025-01-07 18:00 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-07 20:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-01-08 06:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-07 17:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-07 17:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-07 18:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 04:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-09 05:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-09 16:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-09 18:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-09 21:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-10 00:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 01:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 02:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-10 11:00 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-10 15:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-01-10 07:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2025-01-10 15:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes eben@gmx.us - 2025-01-10 21:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-11 01:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 01:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Heriberto Avelino <heriberto.avelino@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 01:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2025-01-07 20:20 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-07 21:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-07 23:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2025-01-10 03:00 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-10 05:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-10 15:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2025-01-07 23:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-08 00:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2025-01-07 17:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-07 20:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 08:40 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 04:00 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 04:10 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-01-07 11:20 +0100
Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arriving soon] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-01-02 17:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-02 23:10 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-02 23:30 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 00:10 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 04:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 05:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-03 14:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 03:40 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 05:10 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 04:30 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: newcomputerarrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0100
sgdisk missing under Armbian for Gene [WAS Specific mdadm instructions for Gene] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-01-03 12:40 +0100
Re: sgdisk missing under Armbian for Gene [WAS Specific mdadm instructions for Gene] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-03 12:50 +0100
Re: sgdisk missing under Armbian for Gene [WAS Specific mdadminstructions for Gene] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 17:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 04:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-02 05:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-02 08:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-02 23:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2025-01-02 23:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 00:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2025-01-03 17:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 17:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2025-01-10 05:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2025-01-03 00:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-03 00:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2025-01-03 17:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 16:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Frank Guthausen <fg.debian@shimps.de> - 2024-12-31 20:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 04:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-02 23:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 06:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-27 20:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-12-22 00:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-22 02:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-12-22 05:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-12-22 17:20 +0100
Page 3 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 Next page →
| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 11:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K19q9-5BWH-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276343 |
On 1/3/25 22:51, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 02/01/2025 23:05, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2025 at 10:38 AM "Max Nikulin" >>> On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>>> Lookup Gene and networkmanager, >>> >>> Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My >>> impression is >>> that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often >>> demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers. >>> The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers >>> intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager >>> while the same approach works fine on Debian. >> >> It was debian and your talking to the one that solved his issue. > > I mean some Chinese 3d printer: > gene heskett. Re: time question, as in ntp? Fri, 1 Dec 2023 05:42:35 > -0500. > <https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/c10ab2f9-12d5-4f40-9da4-509d62906213@shentel.net> > That has been a src of confusion here with my mixed hdwe network. ntpsec work's fine as a 2nd level src running on this I5 machine, so I've only 2 machines out of 8 banging on debians ntp pool. but on the armbian stuff only chrony seems to work correctly. I also have a couple radio clocks that self set in the wee hours when skip from WWWV in Boulder CO is best, they indicate good signals, but are off an hour, like the timezone files are duff. However, when I went to check them at 04:30 AM, just now, everything is in sync again. All of this ntp stuff is both client and server so I do have some strange addresses being logged as clients at times Seems to be transient. I don't mind it as long as they only want the time. >> BTW networkmanager as built in debain leaves a lot to be desired just >> like networking on debian leaves a lot to be desired. +1000, They could start by using a consistent name for nm from release to release. When it doesn't work after a reboot, what name do we type to run it? Its usually 10 - 20 minutes of command not found. You wind up doing ls's or searches with mc to find likely suspects. I always install mc to assure I have something that actually works before doing the initial reboot. > > I faced once a Debian-specific issue (it had been reported already). > My impression is that most limitation and bugs are due to upstream > sources. For me NetworkManager is not a source of regular annoyance. > >> What I have found that distro like armbian fixes a lot of things that >> are just flat broken in debian-arm. > > Am I wrong that some fixes can not be included into upstream projects > or into Debian due to licensing issues? That is always a possibility. >> Waiting to be attacked over this posting > > What is the point in attempts to insult developers (posting to a user > mailing list)? Doesn't Armbian heavily rely on Debian? or ubuntu... > After all, it is an important skill to move forward despite some > degree of tension and disagreement. Try to be polite and constructive > in communications. > One does get tired and short tempered when a copy/paste error post bullseye that wrecks udev is said to not be fixed before trixie. Thats not excusable when the fix is a one line patch we've all done years ago. Get it from a pinned post on discord/klipper for 3d printers forum. Restores the missing /dev/serial/by-id entries. Take care of #1 Max. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 04:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Gene and networkmanager (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) |
| Message-ID | <K1pOh-5MY7-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276344 |
On 04/01/2025 17:19, gene heskett wrote: > On 1/3/25 22:51, Max Nikulin wrote: >> On 02/01/2025 23:05, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2025 at 10:38 AM "Max Nikulin" >>>> On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>>>> Lookup Gene and networkmanager, I wrote my previous just to show that these pair of keywords may lead to almost anything. This time I am more interested in pocket's case. What prevented some valuable contribution to the Debian project? >>>> Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My >>>> impression is >>>> that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often >>>> demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers. >>>> The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers >>>> intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager >>>> while the same approach works fine on Debian. >>> >>> It was debian and your talking to the one that solved his issue. >> >> I mean some Chinese 3d printer: >> gene heskett. Re: time question, as in ntp? Fri, 1 Dec 2023 05:42:35 >> -0500. >> <https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/c10ab2f9-12d5-4f40-9da4-509d62906213@shentel.net> > > That has been a src of confusion here with my mixed hdwe network. ntpsec > work's fine as a 2nd level src running on this I5 machine Gene, you are quite successful in moving focus to some unrelated topic. In that thread, besides NTP issues, you were struggling with network configuration. I was not going to cite your message another time, but since you jumped in, could you, please, explain: 1. Why instead of calling to support of the vendor manufactured that 3d printer you were asking for help on debian-user? 2. Why instead of inspecting what crap (likely unrelated to even armbian) was stuffed into that device by the vendor you started to blame NetworkManager? On 01/12/2023 17:42, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/30/23 23:18, Max Nikulin wrote: > >> On 01/12/2023 10:24, gene heskett wrote: >>> If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen >>> that networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file. >> >> Then, please, explain clearly what is "networkmangler", what is "/e/n/i", >> and what particular evidences you have that namely "networkmangler" >> overwrites "/e/n/i". > =NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces. Sheesh, part of the > "slang-guage" for decades. > > MetworkManager has well earned that alias. I have made it a habit to > remove the x attribute of that headache.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 17:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Gene and networkmanager (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) |
| Message-ID | <K1Bw5-5WG6-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276353 |
On 1/4/25 22:47, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 04/01/2025 17:19, gene heskett wrote: >> On 1/3/25 22:51, Max Nikulin wrote: >>> On 02/01/2025 23:05, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2025 at 10:38 AM "Max Nikulin" >>>>> On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>>>>> Lookup Gene and networkmanager, > > I wrote my previous just to show that these pair of keywords may lead > to almost anything. This time I am more interested in pocket's case. > What prevented some valuable contribution to the Debian project? The total lack of being able to do it anonymously. > >>>>> Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My >>>>> impression is >>>>> that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often >>>>> demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers. >>>>> The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers >>>>> intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager >>>>> while the same approach works fine on Debian. >>>> >>>> It was debian and your talking to the one that solved his issue. >>> >>> I mean some Chinese 3d printer: >>> gene heskett. Re: time question, as in ntp? Fri, 1 Dec 2023 05:42:35 >>> -0500. >>> <https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/c10ab2f9-12d5-4f40-9da4-509d62906213@shentel.net> >>> >> >> That has been a src of confusion here with my mixed hdwe network. >> ntpsec work's fine as a 2nd level src running on this I5 machine > > Gene, you are quite successful in moving focus to some unrelated > topic. In that thread, besides NTP issues, you were struggling with > network configuration. I was not going to cite your message another > time, but since you jumped in, could you, please, explain: > > 1. Why instead of calling to support of the vendor manufactured that > 3d printer you were asking for help on debian-user? > > 2. Why instead of inspecting what crap (likely unrelated to even > armbian) was stuffed into that device by the vendor you started to > blame NetworkManager? > > On 01/12/2023 17:42, gene heskett wrote: >> On 11/30/23 23:18, Max Nikulin wrote: >> >>> On 01/12/2023 10:24, gene heskett wrote: >>>> If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen >>>> that networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file. >>> /etc/network/interfaces. I thought that short hand was self-explanatory. >>> Then, please, explain clearly what is "networkmangler", what is >>> "/e/n/i", >>> and what particular evidences you have that namely "networkmangler" >>> overwrites "/e/n/i". shorthand for > >> =NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces. Sheesh, part of the >> "slang-guage" for decades. >> >> MetworkManager has well earned that alias. I have made it a habit to >> remove the x attribute of that headache. > > > . Cheers, Gene, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 05:00 +0100 |
| Subject | /dev/serial/by-id (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) |
| Message-ID | <K1pXX-5N2a-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276344 |
On 04/01/2025 17:19, gene heskett wrote: > One does get tired and short tempered when a copy/paste error post > bullseye that wrecks udev is said to not be fixed before trixie. Thats > not excusable when the fix is a one line patch we've all done years ago. > Get it from a pinned post on discord/klipper for 3d printers forum. > Restores the missing /dev/serial/by-id entries. Some post may be pinned in various forums specific to some devices or applications, but has the issue been reported to Debian? Is there a Debian bug number?
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 17:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: /dev/serial/by-id (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) |
| Message-ID | <K1BFL-5WJd-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276354 |
On 1/4/25 22:54, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 04/01/2025 17:19, gene heskett wrote: >> One does get tired and short tempered when a copy/paste error post >> bullseye that wrecks udev is said to not be fixed before trixie. >> Thats not excusable when the fix is a one line patch we've all done >> years ago. Get it from a pinned post on discord/klipper for 3d >> printers forum. Restores the missing /dev/serial/by-id entries. > > Some post may be pinned in various forums specific to some devices or > applications, but has the issue been reported to Debian? Is there a > Debian bug number? Its been reported and I was informed during bullseye that it would not be fixed before trixie. That patch is out there, with a gpl license but by now has probably fallen thru the cracks. Two whole releases with 90% of the 3d printers disabled because of a one line copy/paste error makes zero sense to me. Test by "ls /dev/serial/by-id/* If there is no by-id the patch is still needed. Everybody I've looked at but debian fixed it immediately. As for bug number, I'm not the OP, just a canary. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 03:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: /dev/serial/by-id |
| Message-ID | <K1L2q-64A6-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276368 |
On 05/01/2025 23:28, gene heskett wrote: > As for bug number, I'm not the OP, just a canary. Then ask the author to add the bug number. Tell them that without a link you were not be able to check current state of affairs and, as a result, you have secured your reputation as a liar.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 08:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: /dev/serial/by-id |
| Message-ID | <K1Pz3-67Sl-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276370 |
On 1/5/25 21:21, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 05/01/2025 23:28, gene heskett wrote: >> As for bug number, I'm not the OP, just a canary. > > Then ask the author to add the bug number. Tell them that without a > link you were not be able to check current state of affairs and, as a > result, you have secured your reputation as a liar. So be it Max, nothing I can do. This list doesn't want to accept that I am truthful when reporting a problem. Shrug... Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 04:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: /dev/serial/by-id |
| Message-ID | <K28il-6jLN-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276372 |
On 06/01/2025 14:09, gene heskett wrote: > On 1/5/25 21:21, Max Nikulin wrote: >> On 05/01/2025 23:28, gene heskett wrote: >>> As for bug number, I'm not the OP, just a canary. >> >> Then ask the author to add the bug number. Tell them that without a >> link you were not be able to check current state of affairs and, as a >> result, you have secured your reputation as a liar. > > So be it Max, nothing I can do. This list doesn't want to accept that I > am truthful when reporting a problem. Shrug... Gene, are you realizing that instead of reporting a problem, you are actually just spreading some rumors and attacking Debian developers? Be responsible, if you are expecting warm reaction. Reread that topic related to klipper. If there is no link to a Debian bug then either use a search engine to find it yourself or ask the clipper community if somebody has contacted Debian developers. Finally request to update the topic with the outcome.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 10:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: /dev/serial/by-id |
| Message-ID | <K2dBn-6ns0-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276376 |
On 1/6/25 22:13, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 06/01/2025 14:09, gene heskett wrote: >> On 1/5/25 21:21, Max Nikulin wrote: >>> On 05/01/2025 23:28, gene heskett wrote: >>>> As for bug number, I'm not the OP, just a canary. >>> >>> Then ask the author to add the bug number. Tell them that without a >>> link you were not be able to check current state of affairs and, as >>> a result, you have secured your reputation as a liar. >> >> So be it Max, nothing I can do. This list doesn't want to accept that >> I am truthful when reporting a problem. Shrug... > > Gene, are you realizing that instead of reporting a problem, you are > actually just spreading some rumors and attacking Debian developers? > Be responsible, if you are expecting warm reaction. The reaction I got for mentioning it, now years ago, convinced me that I most obviously shouldn't have mentioned it. The reception I got at the time could only be called hostile. I did use reportbug at the time and I assume I was emailed a bug number, which I've obviously lost in all the installs I was forced to do because once I had shut orca up, the machine would not reboot, stuck very early in the boot process waiting for orca to come alive. Forever, so reboots were reinstalls. I finally figured out how to shut orca off and reboot. But opening a local file I own is still subject to a 30+ second timeout during which time the machine is totally frozen except the analog kclock. Many times I have several screens full of errors logged, which might contain clues as to what is blocking things, but the list strips attachments so no one but me sees them. I ask for help, describing what happening and no one has offered a solution other than yet another new install. Only one other person has reported a similar problem, by PM as hes seen the reception I've gotten for suggesting the installer is broken, with an side comment that installer in the live dvd image doesn't do that. But I have enough work stored on this machine now that I'd lose with a re-install that I'm building me an 8T raid10 amanda backup system I hope to have working when trixie is announced. A du -h /home/gene is 343Gigs. I've been busy with OpenSCAD and 3d printers. > > Reread that topic related to klipper. I probably originated it. > If there is no link to a Debian bug then either use a search engine to > find it yourself or ask the clipper community if somebody has > contacted Debian developers. They have, and apparently got the same reception I've gotten. So they wrote a patch and pinned it on discord. So we klipper users fixed it years ago. Yet its an unauthorized line of code. Why, with that attitude, should I bother, years later, with all this? > Finally request to update the topic with the outcome. > Searching (you need rights) for udev bugs should find it if some dev hasn't erased it. I don't know how and have long since lost the pw. I ask for a pw reset but don't get it. Several times. I'm apparently a nobody to the devs. Verify the bug has been fixed with "ls /dev/serial/by-id/" if you don't get a valid response, that's the bug. You should get something that looks faintly like this: gene@coyote:~$ ls /dev/serial/by-id/ usb-1a86_USB_Serial-if00-port0 usb-FTDI_USB_HS_SERIAL_CONVERTER_FTDHG45D-if00-port0 word wrapped by tbird of course. Those are in fact brother printers or cm11a's for x10 stuff. And they were NOT plugged in for the last 25 installs after someone said to unplug the usb stuff. Thank you Max. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 14:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: /dev/serial/by-id |
| Message-ID | <K2i82-6qgi-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276378 |
On 1/7/25 06:01, Timothy M Butterworth wrote: > On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 3:51 AM gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: > >> On 1/6/25 22:13, Max Nikulin wrote: >>> On 06/01/2025 14:09, gene heskett wrote: >>>> On 1/5/25 21:21, Max Nikulin wrote: >>>>> On 05/01/2025 23:28, gene heskett wrote: >>>>>> As for bug number, I'm not the OP, just a canary. >>>>> Then ask the author to add the bug number. Tell them that without a >>>>> link you were not be able to check current state of affairs and, as >>>>> a result, you have secured your reputation as a liar. >>>> So be it Max, nothing I can do. This list doesn't want to accept that >>>> I am truthful when reporting a problem. Shrug... >>> Gene, are you realizing that instead of reporting a problem, you are >>> actually just spreading some rumors and attacking Debian developers? >>> Be responsible, if you are expecting warm reaction. >> The reaction I got for mentioning it, now years ago, convinced me that I >> most obviously shouldn't have mentioned it. The reception I got at the >> time could only be called hostile. I did use reportbug at the time and >> I assume I was emailed a bug number, which I've obviously lost in all >> the installs I was forced to do because once I had shut orca up, the >> machine would not reboot, stuck very early in the boot process waiting >> for orca to come alive. Forever, so reboots were reinstalls. I finally >> figured out how to shut orca off and reboot. But opening a local file I >> own is still subject to a 30+ second timeout during which time the >> machine is totally frozen except the analog kclock. Many times I have >> several screens full of errors logged, which might contain clues as to >> what is blocking things, but the list strips attachments so no one but >> me sees them. >> >> I ask for help, describing what happening and no one has offered a >> solution other than yet another new install. Only one other person has >> reported a similar problem, by PM as hes seen the reception I've gotten >> for suggesting the installer is broken, with an side comment that >> installer in the live dvd image doesn't do that. > > I also ran into the Orca and brltty Hell problem Gene described, after a > clean install from DVD. Disabling Orca through system settings did not work > and required logging off and then back in for the change to take effect. > Brltty broke my serial console and I still can not switch virtual > terminals. So far selecting yes to installing accessibility tools has been > a giant PITA! I will not make the accessibility hell mistake again! On my > new laptop I installed from KDE Live DVD and thankfully it did not even > have an option to install accessibility tools and everything works great. > Well almost great, it did not ask me to setup mirrors during the > installation so I had to manually setup debian repos. > > I have only one laptop that I need to perform a clean install on to get > ride of the accessibilitiy hell. I am going to install Trixie weekly KDE > Live DVD on it. I was running Trixie on it until I updated to KDE 6.2.3 and > network manager applet disapeared. KDE 6.2.4 fixed that problem on my > virtual machine. So It is time to move Trixie back to physical hardware. > > But I have enough work >> stored on this machine now that I'd lose with a re-install that I'm >> building me an 8T raid10 amanda backup system I hope to have working >> when trixie is announced. > > 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name > only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable > space. The drive itself was cheap. Which can be heard by the clicking and > grinding noises it makes. That has to be spinning rust. And sounds like it is using a cane to walk. In my systems there is only one spinning rust, the rest have all been fitted with SSD from 120G to 4T. the only spinning rust is in the machine running my 6040 gantry mill, and its a 250G seacrate built back when they made good drives. Why just one? 2 years ago I bought a pair if new seagate 2T's and put them in this machine. 1 to run /home on, and one for amanda, backing up the rest of my stuff. Both of those drives disappeared of the end of a sata-ii cable in consequtive nights less that 2 weeks later. I lost everything including the only picture of my first wife, who had a stroke and died in '68. She came with 2 of her own and we made 3 more, all of which have since passed. I'd already had my battles with seagate and that was the last straw. They would not sell me a head drum for their tape changer, so it spent the holidays every year in Oklahoma City getting a rebuild & new drum. At the time I was the CE at a tv station with 13 Panasonic DVC-PRO machines, machines I could put a new head in one in the morning and 1 in the afternoon. Its a bit complex and needed a 4 trace scope with 100megs of bandwidth to do it. I was fully qualified to do a drum in a tape drive. And was denied the part. So over time I've had my fill of seagate. I didn't even bother to warranty that junk. Yes folks, electronically, I have been there and done that, with 2 exceptions caused by the FCC or whatever, I fixed it all, from $10,000 tv zoom lenses to $300,000 transmitters. But I can't fix what there is no docs for. Or information I don't know where to pull the docs from. > With external storage prices getting lower and > read/write speeds increasing exponentially, particuarly with Thunderbolt 4 > I no longer bother with RAID! I just have two external drives, one primary > for daily use and the other is a backup of the primary using rsync. > Considering that all but one of my PC's are laptops, the one that isn't a > laptop is a small form factor Micro PC with no drive expansion > capabilities, I could not run RAID even if I wanted to. >> A du -h /home/gene is 343Gigs. I've been busy >> with OpenSCAD and 3d printers. >> >>> Reread that topic related to klipper. >> I probably originated it. >>> If there is no link to a Debian bug then either use a search engine to >>> find it yourself or ask the clipper community if somebody has >>> contacted Debian developers. >> They have, and apparently got the same reception I've gotten. So they >> wrote a patch and pinned it on discord. So we klipper users fixed it >> years ago. Yet its an unauthorized line of code. Why, with that >> attitude, should I bother, years later, with all this? >>> Finally request to update the topic with the outcome. >>> >> Searching (you need rights) for udev bugs should find it if some dev >> hasn't erased it. I don't know how and have long since lost the pw. I >> ask for a pw reset but don't get it. Several times. I'm apparently a >> nobody to the devs. >> >> Verify the bug has been fixed with "ls /dev/serial/by-id/" if you don't >> get a valid response, that's the bug. >> >> You should get something that looks faintly like this: >> >> gene@coyote:~$ ls /dev/serial/by-id/ >> usb-1a86_USB_Serial-if00-port0 >> >> usb-FTDI_USB_HS_SERIAL_CONVERTER_FTDHG45D-if00-port0 >> >> word wrapped by tbird of course. Those are in fact brother printers or >> cm11a's for x10 stuff. And they were NOT plugged in for the last 25 >> installs after someone said to unplug the usb stuff. >> Thank you Max. >> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 16:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) |
| Message-ID | <K2jnr-6rc7-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276380 |
> 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name
> only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable
> space.
18TB "on paper" is usually 18 * 1000^4 bytes, so if you convert this
into "computer units" is ~16.37 * 1024^4 bytes. If you then make an
ext4 filesystem on it with the customary 5% reserved for root, that gets
you down to 15.5TB, to which you also have to remove the space used by
inodes, so yes, probably about 15TB and of course, once you start
putting actual files ion the drive, additional space will be used by
directories and metadata.
Stefan
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| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 16:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) |
| Message-ID | <K2k09-6rpc-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276382 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Jan 07, 2025, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name > > only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable > > space. > > 18TB "on paper" is usually 18 * 1000^4 bytes, so if you convert this > into "computer units" is ~16.37 * 1024^4 bytes. If you then make an > ext4 filesystem on it with the customary 5% reserved for root, that gets > you down to 15.5TB, to which you also have to remove the space used by > inodes, so yes, probably about 15TB and of course, once you start > putting actual files ion the drive, additional space will be used by > directories and metadata. Now now, let's not derail a rant with facts :) That being said, I thought the variance from TB -> TiB was 10%; or have I gotten it backwards? -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
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| From | eben@gmx.us |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 17:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes |
| Message-ID | <K2kjv-6rL6-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276386 |
On 1/7/25 10:44, Dan Purgert wrote: > On Jan 07, 2025, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name >>> only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable >>> space. >> >> 18TB "on paper" is usually 18 * 1000^4 bytes, so if you convert this >> into "computer units" is ~16.37 * 1024^4 bytes. If you then make an >> ext4 filesystem on it with the customary 5% reserved for root, that gets >> you down to 15.5TB, to which you also have to remove the space used by >> inodes, so yes, probably about 15TB and of course, once you start >> putting actual files ion the drive, additional space will be used by >> directories and metadata. > > Now now, let's not derail a rant with facts :) > > That being said, I thought the variance from TB -> TiB was 10%; or have > I gotten it backwards? My intuition votes for 1-1000/1024 = 1-125/128 which is approximately 2.35% but it's been wrong before.
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 17:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes |
| Message-ID | <K2kMy-6rVw-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276387 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Tue, Jan 07, 2025 at 11:05:01AM -0500, eben@gmx.us wrote: > On 1/7/25 10:44, Dan Purgert wrote: > > On Jan 07, 2025, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >>> 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name > >>> only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable > >>> space. > >> > >> 18TB "on paper" is usually 18 * 1000^4 bytes, so if you convert this > >> into "computer units" is ~16.37 * 1024^4 bytes. If you then make an > >> ext4 filesystem on it with the customary 5% reserved for root, that gets > >> you down to 15.5TB, to which you also have to remove the space used by > >> inodes, so yes, probably about 15TB and of course, once you start > >> putting actual files ion the drive, additional space will be used by > >> directories and metadata. > > > > Now now, let's not derail a rant with facts :) > > > > That being said, I thought the variance from TB -> TiB was 10%; or have > > I gotten it backwards? > > My intuition votes for 1-1000/1024 = 1-125/128 which is approximately 2.35% > but it's been wrong before. That would be for KB, but Tera is the third power of that. So it's about three times 2.35%, if you throw away the higher order terms (we physicists are cheap, like that ;-) Cheers -- t
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| From | eben@gmx.us |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 18:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes |
| Message-ID | <K2l5T-6s2c-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276391 |
On 1/7/25 11:31, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Tue, Jan 07, 2025 at 11:05:01AM -0500, eben@gmx.us wrote: >> On 1/7/25 10:44, Dan Purgert wrote: >>> On Jan 07, 2025, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>>> 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name >>>>> only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable >>>>> space. >>>> >>>> 18TB "on paper" is usually 18 * 1000^4 bytes, so if you convert this >>>> into "computer units" is ~16.37 * 1024^4 bytes. If you then make an >>>> ext4 filesystem on it with the customary 5% reserved for root, that gets >>>> you down to 15.5TB, to which you also have to remove the space used by >>>> inodes, so yes, probably about 15TB and of course, once you start >>>> putting actual files ion the drive, additional space will be used by >>>> directories and metadata. >>> >>> Now now, let's not derail a rant with facts :) >>> >>> That being said, I thought the variance from TB -> TiB was 10%; or have >>> I gotten it backwards? >> >> My intuition votes for 1-1000/1024 = 1-125/128 which is approximately 2.35% >> but it's been wrong before. > > That would be for KB, but Tera is the third power of that. So it's about > three times 2.35%, if you throw away the higher order terms (we physicists > are cheap, like that ;-) Right you are. Apparently I suck at exponential math. I must have been asleep that week.
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 20:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes |
| Message-ID | <K2nAJ-6tFS-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276391 |
> That would be for KB, but Tera is the third power of that. So it's about
> three times 2.35%, if you throw away the higher order terms (we physicists
> are cheap, like that ;-)
I think you meant 4th power, but what's a factor 1024 between friends.
Stefan
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-08 06:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes |
| Message-ID | <K2wNH-6zyl-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276397 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Tue, Jan 07, 2025 at 02:28:48PM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > That would be for KB, but Tera is the third power of that. So it's about > > three times 2.35%, if you throw away the higher order terms (we physicists > > are cheap, like that ;-) > > I think you meant 4th power, but what's a factor 1024 between friends. D'oh :) Cheers -- t
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 17:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) |
| Message-ID | <K2kjv-6rL6-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276386 |
On Tue, Jan 07, 2025 at 10:44:00AM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote: >On Jan 07, 2025, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> > 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name >> > only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable >> > space. >> >> 18TB "on paper" is usually 18 * 1000^4 bytes, so if you convert this >> into "computer units" is ~16.37 * 1024^4 bytes. If you then make an >> ext4 filesystem on it with the customary 5% reserved for root, that gets >> you down to 15.5TB, to which you also have to remove the space used by >> inodes, so yes, probably about 15TB and of course, once you start >> putting actual files ion the drive, additional space will be used by >> directories and metadata. > >Now now, let's not derail a rant with facts :) > >That being said, I thought the variance from TB -> TiB was 10%; or have >I gotten it backwards? TB is about 10% larger. One of the worst crimes in computer history was ever talking about storage in powers of 2, I really wish it would just go away. It has properties that nobody wants and has been the source of endless confusion, for really no benefits whatsoever.
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 17:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) |
| Message-ID | <K2kCR-6rSa-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276388 |
On Tue, Jan 07, 2025 at 11:05:11AM -0500, Michael Stone wrote: >TB is about 10% larger. Hmm. Even talking about this is hard. The unit TiB is 1099511627776 bytes while the unit TB is 1000000000000 bytes. That is, when talking about a drive, expressing it in TB is about a 10% larger number because the TiB itself is larger. E.g., a drive that is 20000000000000 bytes would be 20TB or 18TiB.
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| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 18:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) |
| Message-ID | <K2lfz-6sl7-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276388 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Jan 07, 2025, Michael Stone wrote: > On Tue, Jan 07, 2025 at 10:44:00AM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote: > > On Jan 07, 2025, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > > 8 TB is not that big. I have a external 18 TB drive. It is 18 TB in name > > > > only though! After fromating it with ext4 it only had 15TB of usuable > > > > space. > > > > > > 18TB "on paper" is usually 18 * 1000^4 bytes, so if you convert this > > > into "computer units" is ~16.37 * 1024^4 bytes. If you then make an > > > ext4 filesystem on it with the customary 5% reserved for root, that gets > > > you down to 15.5TB, to which you also have to remove the space used by > > > inodes, so yes, probably about 15TB and of course, once you start > > > putting actual files ion the drive, additional space will be used by > > > directories and metadata. > > > > Now now, let's not derail a rant with facts :) > > > > That being said, I thought the variance from TB -> TiB was 10%; or have > > I gotten it backwards? > > TB is about 10% larger. One of the worst crimes in computer history > was ever talking about storage in powers of 2, I really wish it would > just go away. It has properties that nobody wants and has been the > source of endless confusion, for really no benefits whatsoever. Ah, found the mistake I made before. 1024^4 / 1000^4 (9.9% bigger) vs. 1000^4 / 1024^4 (9.09% smaller). -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
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