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Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64

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  Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 13:50 +0200
    Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-09-12 14:00 +0200
      Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-09-12 14:10 +0200
      Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 14:50 +0200
        Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-09-12 15:10 +0200
          Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 16:10 +0200
            Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-09-12 17:00 +0200
              Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 17:30 +0200
              KDE, switching users (was: Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on  Lenovo R64) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-09-12 18:40 +0200
    Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Felix Miata <mrmazda@stanis.net> - 2024-09-12 14:20 +0200
      Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 15:50 +0200
    Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-09-12 14:20 +0200
      Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 15:40 +0200
        Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-09-12 15:50 +0200
          Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 17:20 +0200
        Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2024-09-12 16:00 +0200
          Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-09-12 16:20 +0200
            Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 16:50 +0200
          Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-12 17:00 +0200
            Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2024-09-12 18:10 +0200
        Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-13 10:20 +0200
          Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-09-13 11:00 +0200
            Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-13 12:20 +0200
              Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-09-13 14:10 +0200
                Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64 Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-09-13 15:00 +0200

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#273026 — Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64

I have a Lenovo R61 running 64 bit Buster.
It has a keyboard failure - the "h" key is intermittent and my primary 
account is "Richard" ;/

I have no problem logging in as root.

Two primary questions:
1. is there someway that I can use a USB connected keyboard
    as workaround while root?
2. is there some way to switch from "root" to "Richard" without
    having to type to the pop-up that shows when using
    System->Logout... ?

TIA

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#273027

Hi Richard,

Am Donnerstag, 12. September 2024, 13:43:49 CEST schrieb Richard Owlett:
> I have a Lenovo R61 running 64 bit Buster.
> It has a keyboard failure - the "h" key is intermittent and my primary
> account is "Richard" ;/
> 
> I have no problem logging in as root.
> 
> Two primary questions:
> 1. is there someway that I can use a USB connected keyboard
>     as workaround while root?

I am not sure, what you mean. If you connect an USB-keyboard into a notebook, 
then both should work. 


> 2. is there some way to switch from "root" to "Richard" without
>     having to type to the pop-up that shows when using
>     System->Logout... ?
> 
You can login as Richard, then do "su -" and become root. After this, type 
"CTRL + d" and you are Richard again.

In X (i.e. in konsole or term or any other terminal), started as normal user 
Richard, you can type "su -p", then start any graphical programm you nee fro 
this console. It will run with root rights.

After it just close the terminal or type in "CTRL + d" and you arte back to 
Richard again.

This is handy, when you need only few applications as root. For eample, when 
you need to edit a *.conf file as root and you might want edit with "kwrite" 
for eample. So you need not to logoff and logon as root, just do as described 
above: start terminal, su -p, start kwrite, CTL + d = finished.

Does this help?  

> TIA


Best

Hans

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#273028

I have a Lenovo T520. From time to time (but very seldom), the whole keyboard 
is no more working (just hangs). It is a problem with X, maybe related to the 
NVidia driver. In these rare cases I connect a wireless keyboard to the 
notebook (put the dongle into an usb port) and can go on on typing.

Restarting X initilalises the inbuild keyboard again and then BOTH keyboards 
are working. The do not interfere. Same behaviour with a cabled usb-keyboard.

Best

Hans

 

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#273031

On 09/12/2024 06:59 AM, Hans wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 12. September 2024, 13:43:49 CEST schrieb Richard Owlett:
>> I have a Lenovo R61 running 64 bit Buster.
>> It has a keyboard failure - the "h" key is intermittent and my primary
>> account is "Richard" ;/
>>
>> I have no problem logging in as root.
>>
>> Two primary questions:
>> 1. is there someway that I can use a USB connected keyboard
>>      as workaround while root?
> 
> I am not sure, what you mean. If you connect an USB-keyboard into a notebook,
> then both should work.

Having >60 years of being forms of "tech support" experience, I'm a firm 
believer in "If in doubt, *DON'T*" <GRIN>.
But you and Simon suggested it.
It worked. Thanks!

> 
> 
>> 2. is there some way to switch from "root" to "Richard" without
>>      having to type to the pop-up that shows when using
>>      System->Logout... ?
>>
> You can login as Richard, then do "su -" and become root. After this, type
> "CTRL + d" and you are Richard again.
> 
> In X (i.e. in konsole or term or any other terminal), started as normal user
> Richard, you can type "su -p", then start any graphical programm you nee fro
> this console. It will run with root rights.
> 
> After it just close the terminal or type in "CTRL + d" and you arte back to
> Richard again.
> 
> This is handy, when you need only few applications as root. For eample, when
> you need to edit a *.conf file as root and you might want edit with "kwrite"
> for eample. So you need not to logoff and logon as root, just do as described
> above: start terminal, su -p, start kwrite, CTL + d = finished.
> 
> Does this help?

Solves wrong problem ;}
I couldn't log in as "Richard" at power-up.
But Stefan hints at solution to that problem.

> 
>> TIA
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> 

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#273032

> Solves wrong problem ;}
> I couldn't log in as "Richard" at power-up.
> But Stefan hints at solution to that problem.

Ah, ok, you are in X. Do you now, you can start a second windowmanager as root 
without logoff as the other user? 

If doing so, you can switch between both with "CTL + ALT + F7" (standard 
graphical terminalport in debian for first user) and "CTL + ALT + F8" (next 
graphical port for secon user).

This might becoming handy, when often switch between root and normal user.

Just an idea. 

Nice, that your problem is solved!

Have a nice day!

Hans 

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#273037

On 09/12/2024 08:03 AM, Hans wrote:
>> Solves wrong problem ;}
>> I couldn't log in as "Richard" at power-up.
>> But Stefan hints at solution to that problem.
> 
> Ah, ok, you are in X. Do you now, you can start a second windowmanager as root
> without logoff as the other user?
> 
> If doing so, you can switch between both with "CTL + ALT + F7" (standard
> graphical terminalport in debian for first user) and "CTL + ALT + F8" (next
> graphical port for secon user).

Didn't seem to work on 2 machines using different flavors of Debian.
Where is that documented so I can run a verifiable test?


> 
> This might becoming handy, when often switch between root and normal user.
> 
> Just an idea.
> 
> Nice, that your problem is solved!
> 
> Have a nice day!
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> 

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#273040

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> Didn't seem to work on 2 machines using different flavors of Debian.
> Where is that documented so I can run a verifiable test?

--------------------

You are right. I rechecked this and it does not work correctly, because of a bug in KDE. The 
problem is, when starting another session, your former session is locking. But you can not 
unlock your session again, even with the correct password. I know about this for more than 3 
years and reported the bug long time ago. It is still not fied, but this is not the point here.

--------------------

Apart from this, check it. I am running KDE (plasma) and you get the option "change user" 
from the K-menu.

Do this, and you start with the windowmanager you preset in your favourite login manager (I 
am using lightdm, but sddm or gdm might work as well, too).

When both windowmanagers are started, you can click every time to "change user" and then 
get the option, to chose, to which you want to switch. 

--------------------

But as I said before: The former one has a locked screen and can not be unlocked. I suppose, 
this is a rights problem and the locking mechanism is set by root and rooit must unloc it. But as 
you want to unlock the screen as normal user, it will not work. Maybe sometimes this will be 
fixed. However, it does not harm the function of starting a second window managers for another 
user.

--------------------

If someone might also confirm of this little bug I mentioned here and knows better than me, he 
may just file a little bugreport to the developers of KDE. Maybe he also nows a little 
workaround???

--------------------
Hope this helps and makes things clearer.

Best regards

Hans
 
  

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#273043

On 09/12/2024 09:54 AM, Hans wrote:
>> Didn't seem to work on 2 machines using different flavors of Debian.
>> Where is that documented so I can run a verifiable test?
> 
> --------------------
> 
> You are right. I rechecked this and it does not work correctly, because of a bug in KDE. The
> problem is, when starting another session, your former session is locking. But you can not
> unlock your session again, even with the correct password. I know about this for more than 3
> years and reported the bug long time ago. It is still not fied, but this is not the point here.
> 
> --------------------
> 
> Apart from this, check it. I am running KDE (plasma) and you get the option "change user"
> from the K-menu.
> 
> Do this, and you start with the windowmanager you preset in your favourite login manager (I
> am using lightdm, but sddm or gdm might work as well, too).
> 
> When both windowmanagers are started, you can click every time to "change user" and then
> get the option, to chose, to which you want to switch.
> 
> --------------------
> 
> But as I said before: The former one has a locked screen and can not be unlocked. I suppose,
> this is a rights problem and the locking mechanism is set by root and rooit must unloc it. But as
> you want to unlock the screen as normal user, it will not work. Maybe sometimes this will be
> fixed. However, it does not harm the function of starting a second window managers for another
> user.
> 
> --------------------
> 
> If someone might also confirm of this little bug I mentioned here and knows better than me, he
> may just file a little bugreport to the developers of KDE. Maybe he also nows a little
> workaround???
> 
> --------------------
> Hope this helps and makes things clearer.
> 

But I use MATE.
I'm still interested in documentation of what is intended to happen.


> Best regards
> 
> Hans
>   
>    
> 

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#273045 — KDE, switching users (was: Re: Circumventing keyboard problem on Lenovo R64)

On 12/09/2024 21:54, Hans wrote:
> If someone might also confirm of this little bug I mentioned here and 
> knows better than me, he may just file a little bugreport to the 
> developers of KDE. Maybe he also nows a little workaround???

[Ctrl+Alt+F8], [Ctrl+Alt+F7] work fine for me to switch between user 
sessions (minimal KDE, LightDM, amdgpu). I usually start new sessions 
using "dm-tool switch-to-user USER", sometimes I do it from KDE screen 
locker. I have not noticed any issue with unlocking user session from 
kscreenlocker password prompt or from lightlocker for fluxbox.

However what is broken in bookworm is unlocking user session from DM 
login prompt. Sometimes existing session is terminated and I have to 
login again. I have seen it with LightDM and SDDM, in qemu and without 
virtualization. A workaround is to leave DM greeter running after logout 
and to switch to another session using [Ctrl+Alt+F<n>].

On my old laptop LightDM greeter reliably switches to the plasma session 
started for the selected user and unlocks that session. Currently 
Kubuntu-20.04 is installed and I do not remember any problem with 18.04 
or 16.04.

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#273029

Richard Owlett composed on 2024-09-12 06:43 (UTC-0500):

> I have a Lenovo R61 running 64 bit Buster.
> It has a keyboard failure - the "h" key is intermittent and my primary 
> account is "Richard" ;/

Instead of a band aid, attack the keyboard with high PSI compressed air and/or
vacuum cleaner while banging on h. If these fail to restore reliability to h,
consider trying some aerosol electronic contact cleaner.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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#273034

On 09/12/2024 07:17 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Richard Owlett composed on 2024-09-12 06:43 (UTC-0500):
> 
>> I have a Lenovo R61 running 64 bit Buster.
>> It has a keyboard failure - the "h" key is intermittent and my primary
>> account is "Richard" ;/
> 
> Instead of a band aid, attack the keyboard with high PSI compressed air and/or
> vacuum cleaner while banging on h. If these fail to restore reliability to h,
> consider trying some aerosol electronic contact cleaner.
> 

Don't have tools nor dexterity ;/
However the local community college has a computer repair service as 
training aid for one of their degree programs.
Having been a tech, there's things I want done that could be valuable 
background for a new graduate.

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#273030

i Ricard,

> It has a keyboard failure - the "h" key is intermittent and my primary
> account is "Richard" ;/

[ I presume you know tat tis kind of failure can often (sadly not
  always) be fixed by cleaning.  ]

> I have no problem logging in as root.
>
> Two primary questions:
> 1. is there someway that I can use a USB connected keyboard
>    as workaround while root?

I can't tink of any reason wy tat wouldn't "just work".
ave you tried?

> 2. is there some way to switch from "root" to "Richard" without
>    having to type to the pop-up that shows when using
>    System->Logout... ?

Probably, and tat probably depends on wat you mean by "switc" and on te
kind of "display manager" you're using (many of tem give you a list of
users from wic you can select by clicking).
You can also (as root) cange your user's name to remove tat pesky
`` letter.


        Stefan

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#273033

On 09/12/2024 07:13 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> i Ricard,
> 
>> It has a keyboard failure - the "h" key is intermittent and my primary
>> account is "Richard" ;/
> 
> [ I presume you know tat tis kind of failure can often (sadly not
>    always) be fixed by cleaning.  ]

I have other symptoms that hint that there's a temperature problem with 
key decoding.

> 
>> I have no problem logging in as root.
>>
>> Two primary questions:
>> 1. is there someway that I can use a USB connected keyboard
>>     as workaround while root?
> 
> I can't tink of any reason wy tat wouldn't "just work".
> ave you tried?

Now I have. It works ;}

> 
>> 2. is there some way to switch from "root" to "Richard" without
>>     having to type to the pop-up that shows when using
>>     System->Logout... ?
> 
> Probably, and tat probably depends on wat you mean by "switc" and on te
> kind of "display manager" you're using (many of tem give you a list of
> users from wic you can select by clicking).
> You can also (as root) cange your user's name to remove tat pesky
> `` letter.


Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?

TIA


> 
> 
>          Stefan
> 
> 

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#273035

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 08:35:25AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

[...]

> Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?

See usermod, option -l.

Heed the caveats in the man page (and all other places where the user
name might be hidden).

Sounds like some fun.

(Of course you could just edit /etc/passwd, but then you wouldn't get
to see the caveats in the man page: those do matter)

Cheers
-- 
t

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#273042

On 09/12/2024 08:40 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 08:35:25AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?
> 
> See usermod, option -l.

The wording of the text under that option does not give a "warm fuzzy" 
feeling that I understand what's happening.

[ https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=%22tutorial%22%20%22usermod%22 ]
gives many hits. Is there a listed/unlisted tutorial you would recommend.

As I've said elsewhere today:
> I'm a firm believer in "If in doubt, *DON'T*" <GRIN>. 

TIA



> 
> Heed the caveats in the man page (and all other places where the user
> name might be hidden).
> 
> Sounds like some fun.
> 
> (Of course you could just edit /etc/passwd, but then you wouldn't get
> to see the caveats in the man page: those do matter)
> 
> Cheers
> 

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#273036

On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:35:25 -0500
Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:


> 
> 
> Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
Looks like usermod, according to the first page Google shows for:
  debian change user name

https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-change-rename-user-name-id/

-- 
Joe

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#273038

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 14:50:23 +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:35:25 -0500
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:
> > Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?
> > 
> Looks like usermod, according to the first page Google shows for:
>   debian change user name

I prefer vipw(8).  But that's just me.

You'll also want to read passwd(5) and shadow(5).

I would highly recommend *not* being logged in as the user whose name
is being changed at the time.  Do a direct root console or ssh login.
Unless you have a second unprivileged account that can su/sudo to root
to make the changes to the first account.

You'll probably want to rename the home directory, so mv(1) applies.

If the user has a crontab file, you may want to find that and rename
it as well.

If you're using /var/mail for user mailboxes, you may want to rename
the user's mailbox file too.

There may be other things I can't think of right now.

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#273039

On 09/12/2024 09:14 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 14:50:23 +0100, Joe wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:35:25 -0500
>> Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:
>>> Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?
>>>
>> Looks like usermod, according to the first page Google shows for:
>>    debian change user name
> 
> I prefer vipw(8).  But that's just me.

I don't think a "newbie" should be referred to vipw(8) as
[ https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/passwd/vipw.8.en.html ]
does *NOT* contain caveats/warnings equivalent to those in
[ https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/passwd/usermod.8.en.html ]

I.E. I will follow reasoning of tomas@tuxteam.de .

> 
> You'll also want to read passwd(5) and shadow(5).
> 
> I would highly recommend *not* being logged in as the user whose name
> is being changed at the time.  Do a direct root console or ssh login.
> Unless you have a second unprivileged account that can su/sudo to root
> to make the changes to the first account.
> 
> You'll probably want to rename the home directory, so mv(1) applies.
> 
> If the user has a crontab file, you may want to find that and rename
> it as well.
> 
> If you're using /var/mail for user mailboxes, you may want to rename
> the user's mailbox file too.
> 
> There may be other things I can't think of right now.
> 
> 

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#273041

On 09/12/2024 08:50 AM, Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:35:25 -0500
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>>
>> Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>>
> Looks like usermod, according to the first page Google shows for:
>    debian change user name
> 
> https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-change-rename-user-name-id/
> 

That page demonstrates why I'm cautious about blindly following Google 
hits. See post by tomas@tuxteam.de .

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#273044

On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 09:52:03 -0500
Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 08:50 AM, Joe wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:35:25 -0500
> > Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:
> > 
> >   
> >>
> >>
> >> Relevant man page to have 'root' edit a user's login name?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >>  
> > Looks like usermod, according to the first page Google shows for:
> >    debian change user name
> > 
> > https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-change-rename-user-name-id/
> >   
> 
> That page demonstrates why I'm cautious about blindly following
> Google hits. See post by tomas@tuxteam.de .
> 

You asked for a man page reference. I quoted you 'usermod' and also
the source where I found it. You do know how to see man pages?

-- 
Joe

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