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VirtualBox and Windows VMs

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  VirtualBox and Windows VMs Peter Hillier-Brook <phb@hbsys.plus.com> - 2024-12-03 01:20 +0100
    Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs Sridhar M A <alaymari@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 02:00 +0100
    Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 03:20 +0100
      Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 03:40 +0100
    Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs Michael Kjörling <c9bc136c6063@ewoof.net> - 2024-12-03 09:40 +0100
      Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-12-03 12:30 +0100
        Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-12-03 21:00 +0100
    Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-12-03 09:50 +0100
      Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 11:10 +0100
        Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-12-03 12:00 +0100
      Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs jman <debian-user@city17.xyz> - 2024-12-03 14:30 +0100
    Re: VirtualBox and Windows VMs Peter Hillier-Brook <phb@hbsys.plus.com> - 2024-12-03 13:40 +0100

#275162 — VirtualBox and Windows VMs

Once upon a time I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs running 
under VirtualBox on Debian 10 or earlier. Now I need one for some 
primitive, but essential program I cannot remember how I created the VMs 
(Gene's disease, 88 come Sunday) and would welcome any reminders.

The sources are all licensed products on CD-ROMs and VirtualBox seems to 
expect ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter.

Regards.

Peter HB

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#275164

On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 5:49 AM Peter Hillier-Brook <phb@hbsys.plus.com> wrote:
>
> The sources are all licensed products on CD-ROMs and VirtualBox seems to
> expect ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter.
>
If you have the cd's making iso's from them is easy. You can use the
dd command from the terminal to create the iso.

# dd if=/dev/sdx of=winxp.iso

sdx is the cdrom drive on your machine.

Hope that helps.

-- 
Sridhar M. A.

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#275166

On 3/12/24 08:11, Peter Hillier-Brook wrote:
> Once upon a time I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs running 
> under VirtualBox on Debian 10 or earlier. Now I need one for some 
> primitive, but essential program I cannot remember how I created the VMs 
> (Gene's disease, 88 come Sunday) and would welcome any reminders.
> 
> The sources are all licensed products on CD-ROMs and VirtualBox seems to 
> expect ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter.

It's very easy to run them as VMs under KVM/Qemu.

The VMs boot directly off iso images.

see

https://linuxconfig.org/setting-up-virtual-machines-with-qemu-kvm-and-virt-manager-on-debian-ubuntu

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#275167

On 3/12/24 10:11, jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> The sources are all licensed products on CD-ROMs and VirtualBox seems to 
> expect ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter

With the ISO images. you can create a .iso from a CDROM by

sudo dd if=/dev/cdrom of=cdrom.iso bs=4M

You can also map a physical device like your CDROM drive into the 
virtual machine and boot it without need for an iso image

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#275173

On 3 Dec 2024 00:11 +0000, from phb@hbsys.plus.com (Peter Hillier-Brook):
> Once upon a time I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs running
> under VirtualBox on Debian 10 or earlier. Now I need one for some primitive,
> but essential program I cannot remember how I created the VMs (Gene's
> disease, 88 come Sunday) and would welcome any reminders.

To run VirtualBox on Debian, you need to go out of tree; VirtualBox is
no longer shipped by Debian (except, oddly enough, in Sid from the
looks of it).

Unless you have a particular requirement to use _specifically_
VirtualBox, KVM + AQEMU may be a more reasonable choice these days.


> The sources are all licensed products on CD-ROMs and VirtualBox seems to
> expect ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter.

"ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter" Why?

-- 
Michael Kjörling
🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se

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#275181

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

* On 2024 03 Dec 02:33 -0600, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 3 Dec 2024 00:11 +0000, from phb@hbsys.plus.com (Peter Hillier-Brook):
> > Once upon a time I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs running
> > under VirtualBox on Debian 10 or earlier. Now I need one for some primitive,
> > but essential program I cannot remember how I created the VMs (Gene's
> > disease, 88 come Sunday) and would welcome any reminders.
> 
> To run VirtualBox on Debian, you need to go out of tree; VirtualBox is
> no longer shipped by Debian (except, oddly enough, in Sid from the
> looks of it).

It is available via "fasttrack".  See:

https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox

I have it installed on two Bookworm machines though admittedly I don't
use it much any more, preferring QEMU instead for all Linux guests which
is my primary use.
 
> Unless you have a particular requirement to use _specifically_
> VirtualBox, KVM + AQEMU may be a more reasonable choice these days.

Years back I had issues with trying to use a Windows guest in QEMU with
the mouse incapable of reaching the entire desktop.  That was nearly
seven years ago so much likely has changed since.  For those guests
Virtualbox worked without issue.

If Secure Boot is in use the current virtualbox-dkms package from
fasttrack installs its own signing key through shim and signs the newly
compiled kernel modules thus enabling seamless kernel upgrades.

Once again Debian shows that is the most user centric distribution.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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#275204

On Tuesday, 03-12-2024 at 22:26 Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2024 03 Dec 02:33 -0600, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > On 3 Dec 2024 00:11 +0000, from phb@hbsys.plus.com (Peter Hillier-Brook):
> > > Once upon a time I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs running
> > > under VirtualBox on Debian 10 or earlier. Now I need one for some primitive,
> > > but essential program I cannot remember how I created the VMs (Gene's
> > > disease, 88 come Sunday) and would welcome any reminders.
> > 
> > To run VirtualBox on Debian, you need to go out of tree; VirtualBox is
> > no longer shipped by Debian (except, oddly enough, in Sid from the
> > looks of it).
> 
> It is available via "fasttrack".  See:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/VirtualBox
> 
> I have it installed on two Bookworm machines though admittedly I don't
> use it much any more, preferring QEMU instead for all Linux guests which
> is my primary use.
>  
> > Unless you have a particular requirement to use _specifically_
> > VirtualBox, KVM + AQEMU may be a more reasonable choice these days.
> 
> Years back I had issues with trying to use a Windows guest in QEMU with
> the mouse incapable of reaching the entire desktop.  That was nearly
> seven years ago so much likely has changed since.  For those guests
> Virtualbox worked without issue.
> 
> If Secure Boot is in use the current virtualbox-dkms package from
> fasttrack installs its own signing key through shim and signs the newly
> compiled kernel modules thus enabling seamless kernel upgrades.
> 
> Once again Debian shows that is the most user centric distribution.

+1             ; )


> 
> - Nate
> 
> -- 
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
> Web: https://www.n0nb.us
> Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
> GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819
> 
> 

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#275174

On Tuesday, 03-12-2024 at 11:11 Peter Hillier-Brook wrote:
> Once upon a time I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs running 
> under VirtualBox on Debian 10 or earlier. Now I need one for some 
> primitive, but essential program I cannot remember how I created the VMs 
> (Gene's disease, 88 come Sunday) and would welcome any reminders.

For one Windows program I wanted run, Wine did the trick for me.

When virtualising Windows installations in KVM I do the following:

1) Turn any Windows CD or DVDs into ISOs using Linux DVD burning software.

2) Download Virtio Drivers for NIC, disk drive, and QXL video as an ISO file.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/creating-windows-virtual-machines-using-virtio-drivers/
https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/WindowsGuestDrivers/Download_Drivers

3) When I create my VM, I add two CD/DVD drives, one will be for the Windows OS install ISO file, and the other will be for the Virtio Drivers ISO file. I select Disk Drive type of virtio

4) During the installation of Windows, Windows cannot find the disk drive and prompts you for drivers for the disk drive, I then select the Virtio Drivers ISO, and select the disk drive, NIC, and QXL video drivers, before proceeding with the installation.  

I like the performance of the Virtio drivers. I personally have found that for Windows VMs, the QXL video drivers give better performance than the Virtio video drivers. No tested metrics, just personal feeling when using the VMs. Video drivers are easy to install after installing Windows. Disk driver and NIC are necessary for the installation process.

There are many ways to build VMs, the above is just how I often, but not always do this.

I would also recommend the free version of VMware Workstation. While not FOSS, it is an excellent product, while it is made available for personal use.

I hope you succeed in your quest !

George.


> 
> The sources are all licensed products on CD-ROMs and VirtualBox seems to 
> expect ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Peter HB
> 
> 

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#275177

On 3/12/24 16:49, George at Clug wrote:
> I would also recommend the free version of VMware Workstation. While not
>   FOSS, it is an excellent product, while it is made available for
> personal use


No it's not! VMware Workstation is a buggy as hell on Windows and nearly 
unusable on Debian.

I know. I've just spent a year in a virtualisation course using VMWare 
Workstation to virtualise many different hosts and networks and 
applications.

On a Windows Host it will randomly forget to cut and paste to a VM. At 
times it will go to 100% CPU and wedge. Sometimes the only solution is 
to completely reboot the Windows host.

With VMWare workstation on Windows, the course instruction is "Save 
Early, Save Often"

They don't even attempt to do coursework on Linux for a very good reason.

For my personal virtualisation tasks I use QEMU/KVM and the debian gui 
tools. They take a bit of learning but are far more reliable than VMWare.

As an aside, VMWare Workstation Pro is now free because Broadcom has 
upped the license fee on ESXi systems and are facing a mammoth exodus of 
customers to other vendors. Free software is a last ditch effort to 
increase the user base.

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#275179

On Tuesday, 03-12-2024 at 21:04 jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> 
> On 3/12/24 16:49, George at Clug wrote:
> > I would also recommend the free version of VMware Workstation. While not
> >   FOSS, it is an excellent product, while it is made available for
> > personal use
> 
> 
> No it's not! VMware Workstation is a buggy as hell on Windows and nearly 
> unusable on Debian.
> 
> I know. I've just spent a year in a virtualisation course using VMWare 
> Workstation to virtualise many different hosts and networks and 
> applications.
> 
> On a Windows Host it will randomly forget to cut and paste to a VM. At 
> times it will go to 100% CPU and wedge. Sometimes the only solution is 
> to completely reboot the Windows host.
> 
> With VMWare workstation on Windows, the course instruction is "Save 
> Early, Save Often"
> 
> They don't even attempt to do coursework on Linux for a very good reason.

I have used VMware Workstation on Windows PCs for about 15 years, and VMware Player.

I have used VMware Workstation on Linux for about 5 years.  And still do, but only for the better graphics. I mostly use KVM now, via Virt-Manager. 

I first learnt how to do Live Migration using two virtualised ESXi hypervisors using  VMware Workstation on Windows 7. I now use Virt-Manager and KVM to demonstrate Live Migration.

I have enjoyed virtualising Windows 95 through to Windows 10 on VMware Workstation just for the fun.

Never have I had any issues. Worked perfectly for me.

Your experience might be different (obviously from your comments).

I have also use Virtual Box, and quite like it too.

I have never implemented GPU passthrough. Not even sure how to pass a GPU through. 



> 
> For my personal virtualisation tasks I use QEMU/KVM and the debian gui 
> tools. 

I agree, I particularly like using Virt-Manager for QEMU/KVM. Simple to use and I don't need to install a management "endpoint" on remote KVM servers to manage them.


> They take a bit of learning but are far more reliable than VMWare.

I certainly have found KVM and Virt-Manager to be reliable and stable for Linux servers. Never had any issues (other than of my own making  ; )

Using Virt-Manager really makes things easy. I don't bother doing command line KVM unless manually moving/copying VMs.

> 
> As an aside, VMWare Workstation Pro is now free because Broadcom has 
> upped the license fee on ESXi systems and are facing a mammoth exodus of 
> customers to other vendors. Free software is a last ditch effort to 
> increase the user base.

I was disappointed when Broadcom took over VMware.  I had not heard about the ESXi licence fees increasing, sad. I had thought that Broadcom had ended ESXi, it is good to know at least it is still alive, but I am concerned that maybe they are not funding development, which might be why you have found it has become unstable? I do not use VMware Workstation very much over the past four year. No need to as KVM works great.

I had heard that Red Hat may stop supporting Spice in KVM leaving VNC as the alternative?  Have you heard about this? I hope it is not going to happen, Spice has been great for video and sound in VMs. Spice with OpenGL enabled is how I test Cinnamon in VMs without software rendering.

https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/9/html/considerations_in_adopting_rhel_9/assembly_virtualization_considerations-in-adopting-rhel-9
SPICE has become unsupported


George.

> 
> 

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#275189

George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> writes:

> I would also recommend the free version of VMware Workstation. While not FOSS, it is an excellent 
> product, while it is made available for personal use.

Don't want to spread fear but it's worth reminding that relying on software owned by Oracle, even 
when distributed for free, could be a liability:
https://www.theregister.com/2019/10/04/oracle_virtualbox_merula/

Cheers,

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#275185

On 03/12/2024 00:11, Peter Hillier-Brook wrote:
> Once upon a time I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs running 
> under VirtualBox on Debian 10 or earlier. Now I need one for some 
> primitive, but essential program I cannot remember how I created the VMs 
> (Gene's disease, 88 come Sunday) and would welcome any reminders.
> 
> The sources are all licensed products on CD-ROMs and VirtualBox seems to 
> expect ISO inputs which is, of course a non-starter.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Peter HB
> 
Thanks to all for the various, helpful tips. The <dd> route to ISO is 
something I had completely forgotten and will now give it a go.

Peter HB

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