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Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode

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  Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode rhkramer@gmail.com - 2024-11-23 21:40 +0100
    Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode rhkramer@gmail.com - 2024-11-23 21:50 +0100
      Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-11-24 00:20 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-11-24 00:40 +0100
          Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode rhkramer@gmail.com - 2024-11-24 15:20 +0100
            Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-11-24 19:20 +0100
          Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-11-24 17:50 +0100
            Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-11-24 23:10 +0100
              Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-11-25 04:30 +0100
    Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Tom Furie <tom@furie.org.uk> - 2024-11-23 22:00 +0100
      Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode rhkramer@gmail.com - 2024-11-24 18:40 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Tom Furie <tom@furie.org.uk> - 2024-11-24 18:50 +0100
    Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2024-11-23 22:20 +0100
    Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-11-23 23:10 +0100
      Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> - 2024-11-24 10:00 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-11-24 10:20 +0100
        OT: Re: Trolling john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2024-11-24 11:40 +0100
          Re: OT: Re: Trolling Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-11-24 17:10 +0100
          Re: OT: Re: Trolling <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-11-24 18:10 +0100
            Re: OT: Re: Trolling Bitfox <hi@bitfox.ddns.net> - 2024-11-24 23:40 +0100
      Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode rhkramer@gmail.com - 2024-11-24 18:30 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-11-24 22:20 +0100
    Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-11-24 10:30 +0100
      Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2024-11-24 12:40 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-11-24 18:10 +0100
          Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2024-11-25 14:30 +0100
          Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-11-25 18:20 +0100
      Re: Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-11-24 17:40 +0100

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#274825 — Linux on a Laptop shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode

I see an attractive deal on a laptop that is shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode 
(link below).

I assume (I know), but am not sure that I will be able to load Linux on that 
laptop -- can anyone tell me for sure?

PS: I'd also want to expand the RAM and I have to find out if I can do that.

cc'ing me would be helpful, I subscribe to the list but can't keep up with 
reading it anymore -- I will try to pay attention for the next week or so for 
any responses.

   * [[https://www.newegg.com/asus-l510ka-nb21-15-6-intel-pentium-silver-
n6000-4gb-intel-uhd-graphics-64-gb/p/N82E16834236521?Item=N82E16834236521]
[ASUS 15.6" Vivobook Go Laptop, FHD, Intel Pentium N6000 Quad Core, 4GB RAM, 
64GB SSD, Windows 11 in S Mode, Star Black, L510KA-NB21]]

Thank you!

Rh Kramer

--
rhk

| Sorry about the sig -- some people think it is too long -- it is my soapbox.

(sig revised 20240703 -- new first paragraph (above))
(sig revised 20241111 -- new penultimate paragraph)
                
No entity has permission to use this email to train an AI. 

If you reply: snip, snip, and snip again; leave attributions; avoid HTML; 
avoid top posting; and keep it "on list".  (Oxford comma (and semi-colon) 
included at no charge.)  If you revise the topic, change the Subject: line.  
If you change the topic, start a new thread.

Writing is often meant for others to read and understand (legal documents 
excepted?).   Make it easier for your reader by various means, including 
liberal use of whitespace (short paragraphs, separated by whitespace / blank 
lines) and minimal use of (obscure?) jargon, abbreviations, acronyms, and 
references.

If someone has already responded to a question, decide whether any response 
you add will be helpful or not ...

A picture is worth a thousand words.  A video (or "audio"): not so much -- 
divide by 10 for each minute of video (or audio) or create a transcript and 
edit it to 10% of the original.  (Remember Cicero who did not have enough time 
to write a short missive.)

A speaker who uses ahhs, ums, or such may have a real physical or mental 
disability, or may be showing disrespect for his listeners by not properly 
preparing in advance and thinking before speaking. (That speaker might have 
been "trained" to do this by being interrupted often if he pauses.)

A radio (or TV) station which broadcasts speakers with high pitched voices (or 
very low pitched / gravelly voices) (which older people might not be able to 
hear properly) disrespects its listeners.   Likewise if it broadcasts 
extraneous or disturbing sounds (like gunfire or crying), or broadcasts 
speakers using their native language (with or without an overdubbed 
translation).

| A news broadcast or snippet thereof which ends with the correspondent's name 
instead of a recap of at least some key point(s) of the story does a 
disservice to its (casual) listeners.

A person who writes a sig this long probably has issues and disrespects (and 
offends) a large number of readers. ;-)

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#274826

Ahh, with respect to RAM, there is an empty SODIMM slot and at least one site 
has installed an 8 GB stick there for a total of 12 GB -- I'm not sure what 
the maximum additional RAM could be.  (The factory installed 4 GB is soldered 
in).

On Saturday, November 23, 2024 03:38:56 PM rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> PS: I'd also want to expand the RAM and I have to find out if I can do
> that.

>    * [[https://www.newegg.com/asus-l510ka-nb21-15-6-intel-pentium-silver-
> n6000-4gb-intel-uhd-graphics-64-gb/p/N82E16834236521?Item=N82E16834236521]
> [ASUS 15.6" Vivobook Go Laptop, FHD, Intel Pentium N6000 Quad Core, 4GB
> RAM, 64GB SSD, Windows 11 in S Mode, Star Black, L510KA-NB21]]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274830

On Sunday, 24-11-2024 at 07:44 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> Ahh, with respect to RAM, there is an empty SODIMM slot and at least one site 
> has installed an 8 GB stick there for a total of 12 GB -- I'm not sure what 
> the maximum additional RAM could be.  (The factory installed 4 GB is soldered 
> in).

Can you please forward the link that suggests you can upgrade memory? 

>From my research, the memory is not upgradeable. There was no "empty SODIMM slot"? Though there could be an M.2 slot for adding an extra drive. My challenge with such videos on YouTube is many variations of models, and whether the one I buy is exactly the same model as the one I am watching. After purchase the model can be slightly different from the ones in video.

Maybe I found a different model?

The below videos suggest the eMMC is soldered in, but there is an unused M.2 slot into which you can install a M.2 NVMe drive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMpfVX3jaBU
Can I upgrade my Asus Vivobook E510 SSD or RAM?
[RAM soldered, not able to upgrade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxU6hz0BmfQ
ASUS laptop E510 - DISASSEMBLY and UPGRADE OPTIONS 
[You can't upgrade/expand the memory. (RAM)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xHWenMLj_E
ASUS Vivobook Go 15 L510 Laptop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpkT8JwgnAI
How to UPGRADE eMMC Storage With M.2 NVMe SSD On ASUS Laptop!

F2 to get into BIOS

I hope this helps.

George.



> 
> On Saturday, November 23, 2024 03:38:56 PM rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > PS: I'd also want to expand the RAM and I have to find out if I can do
> > that.
> 
> >    * [[https://www.newegg.com/asus-l510ka-nb21-15-6-intel-pentium-silver-
> > n6000-4gb-intel-uhd-graphics-64-gb/p/N82E16834236521?Item=N82E16834236521]
> > [ASUS 15.6" Vivobook Go Laptop, FHD, Intel Pentium N6000 Quad Core, 4GB
> > RAM, 64GB SSD, Windows 11 in S Mode, Star Black, L510KA-NB21]]
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274831

Hi,

The link you provided about the Laptop states: "Memory Slot (Available) 	0", indicating you would not be able to upgrade the memory.

I believe you can put in an M.2 NVMe and then install Linux to that NVMe, that way you can still boot Windows as well as Linux?

I would be concerned about CPU performance. I have had challenges using a CPU that is less than the performance of an i5. Though I did set up a laptop like this for a person to use video conferencing through a Web Browser a few years ago using Debian XFCE, and that worked well.

I guess this depends on what you want to use it for? 

Intel Pentium Silver N6000
https://versus.com/en/intel-pentium-silver-n6000
Someone's comment reguards the CPU:  "I do not recommend for any task at all, this processor can barely run browsers alone or just a 4k video. If you versus any processer against this and it says the pentium silver n6000 wins, just know its a lie. Do not buy this garbage"


https://www.newegg.com/asus-l510ka-nb21-15-6-intel-pentium-silver-n6000-4gb-intel-uhd-graphics-64-gb/p/N82E16834236521?Item=N82E16834236521][ASUS%2015.6%22%20Vivobook%20Go%20Laptop,%20FHD,%20Intel%20Pentium%20N6000%20Quad%20Core,%204GB%20RAM,64GB%20SSD,%20Windows%2011%20in%20S%20Mode,%20Star%20Black,%20L510KA-NB21

Specs

Learn more about the ASUS L510KA-NB21

Inaccurate specs? Let us know

Feedback
Best Seller Ranking 	#14 in Laptop / Notebook
ModelBrand 	ASUS
Series 	Vivobook Go
Model 	L510KA-NB21
Part Number 	90NB0UJ5-M016D0
Quick InfoColor 	LCD Cover: Star Black, Plastic
Top Case: Black, Plastic
Operating System 	Windows 11 in S mode
CPU 	Intel Pentium Silver N6000 1.10 GHz
Screen 	15.6"
Memory 	4 GB DDR4
Storage 	64 GB eMMC
Graphics Card 	Intel UHD Graphics
Video Memory 	Shared memory
Dimensions (W x D x H) 	14.18" x 9.31" x 0.71"
Weight 	3.46 lbs.
CPUCPU Type 	Intel Pentium Silver
CPU Name 	Intel Pentium Silver N6000
Number of Cores 	Quad-core Processor
CPU L3 Cache 	4 MB
DisplayScreen Size 	15.6"
Touchscreen 	No
Wide Screen Support 	Yes
Display Type 	FHD
Resolution 	1920 x 1080
Color Gamut 	45% NTSC
LCD Features 	16:9 220nits Anti-Glare NTSC:45%
Operating SystemOperating System 	Windows 11 in S mode
GraphicsGPU/VPU 	Intel UHD Graphics
Video Memory 	Shared system memory
Graphic Type 	Integrated Card
StorageSSD 	64 GB eMMC
HDD 	No
MemoryMemory 	4GB
Memory Spec 	4 GB onboard
Memory Slot (Available) 	0
Optical DriveOptical Drive Type 	No
CommunicationsWLAN 	Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) (Dual band) 1*1
WiFi Generation 	Wi-Fi 5
Bluetooth 	Bluetooth 5.1 (*Bluetooth version may change with OS version different.)
PortsUSB 	1 x USB 2.0/1.1 / 1 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A / 1 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-C
HDMI 	1 x HDMI 1.4
Audio Ports 	1 x 3.5mm Combo Audio Jack
Input DeviceKeyboard 	Chiclet Keyboard
Webcam 	720p HD camera
GeneralStyle 	Thin and Light
Type 	Home / Personal
Usage 	Consumer
PowerAC Adapter 	33W AC Adapter
Output: 19V DC, 1.75A, 33W
Input: 100-240V AC 50/60Hz universal
Battery 	42WHrs, 3S1P, 3-cell Li-ion
Dimensions & WeightDimensions (W x D x H) 	14.18" x 9.31" x 0.71"
Weight 	3.46 lbs.
Additional InformationDate First Available 	May 29, 2024



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMpfVX3jaBU
Can I upgrade my Asus Vivobook E510 SSD or RAM?
[RAM soldered, not able to upgrade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxU6hz0BmfQ
ASUS laptop E510 - DISASSEMBLY and UPGRADE OPTIONS 
[You can't upgrade/expand the memory. (RAM)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xHWenMLj_E
ASUS Vivobook Go 15 L510 Laptop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpkT8JwgnAI
How to UPGRADE eMMC Storage With M.2 NVMe SSD On ASUS Laptop!

F2 to get into BIOS



On Sunday, 24-11-2024 at 10:15 George at Clug wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sunday, 24-11-2024 at 07:44 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > Ahh, with respect to RAM, there is an empty SODIMM slot and at least one site 
> > has installed an 8 GB stick there for a total of 12 GB -- I'm not sure what 
> > the maximum additional RAM could be.  (The factory installed 4 GB is soldered 
> > in).
> 
> Can you please forward the link that suggests you can upgrade memory? 
> 
> >From my research, the memory is not upgradeable. There was no "empty SODIMM slot"? Though there could be an M.2 slot for adding an extra drive. My challenge with such videos on YouTube is many variations of models, and whether the one I buy is exactly the same model as the one I am watching. After purchase the model can be slightly different from the ones in video.
> 
> Maybe I found a different model?
> 
> The below videos suggest the eMMC is soldered in, but there is an unused M.2 slot into which you can install a M.2 NVMe drive.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMpfVX3jaBU
> Can I upgrade my Asus Vivobook E510 SSD or RAM?
> [RAM soldered, not able to upgrade]
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxU6hz0BmfQ
> ASUS laptop E510 - DISASSEMBLY and UPGRADE OPTIONS 
> [You can't upgrade/expand the memory. (RAM)]
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xHWenMLj_E
> ASUS Vivobook Go 15 L510 Laptop
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpkT8JwgnAI
> How to UPGRADE eMMC Storage With M.2 NVMe SSD On ASUS Laptop!
> 
> F2 to get into BIOS
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> George.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > On Saturday, November 23, 2024 03:38:56 PM rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > > PS: I'd also want to expand the RAM and I have to find out if I can do
> > > that.
> > 
> > >    * [[https://www.newegg.com/asus-l510ka-nb21-15-6-intel-pentium-silver-
> > > n6000-4gb-intel-uhd-graphics-64-gb/p/N82E16834236521?Item=N82E16834236521]
> > > [ASUS 15.6" Vivobook Go Laptop, FHD, Intel Pentium N6000 Quad Core, 4GB
> > > RAM, 64GB SSD, Windows 11 in S Mode, Star Black, L510KA-NB21]]
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274838

Ahh, ok, thanks -- that's pretty clear that there is no memory slot, and, even 
though I wouldn't use the laptop for much -- to demo some software "on the 
road", 4 MB is very limiting.

On Saturday, November 23, 2024 06:39:12 PM George at Clug wrote:
> The link you provided about the Laptop states: "Memory Slot (Available)
> 	0", indicating you would not be able to upgrade the memory.

> MemoryMemory 	4GB
> Memory Spec 	4 GB onboard
> Memory Slot (Available) 	0

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274849

On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 12:52 PM <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ahh, ok, thanks -- that's pretty clear that there is no memory slot, and, even
> though I wouldn't use the laptop for much -- to demo some software "on the
> road", 4 MB is very limiting.

The SSD might be soldered onto the motherboard, too. I found that to
be the case on a low-end Chrome book I bought a long time ago.
Apparently it saves a few cents on a socket.

Jeff

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274842

> a CPU that is less than the performance of an i5.

Side note: such a description is not very useful because a 10 year old
i7 can be significantly less powerful than a recent i3.


        Stefan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274852

On Monday, 25-11-2024 at 03:39 Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > a CPU that is less than the performance of an i5.
> 
> Side note: such a description is not very useful because a 10 year old
> i7 can be significantly less powerful than a recent i3.

While ymmv is valid, I favour i7 CPUs (and Ryzen 7) over other CPUs. At times i5 CPUs will suffice. I am frustrated that I cannot perceive any performance improvements in CPUs since the 4th Gen i7s. This is likely due to the software I use does not gain any perceptible improvement from running on a faster CPU?

I guess I have not used a recent i3. I once made the mistake of believing an i3 was usefully powerful and have been turned off ever since.

My personal experience is there is little effective performance between 12 year old CPUs and current CPUs. Which I find sad, I would like to replace our 2nd Gen i7 (that runs a VR system) and discover everything runs multiple times faster (even twice as fast would be nice). 

I will take your comment on board, hoping I will have the opportunity to test out more recent CPUs.

George.



> 
> 
>         Stefan
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274857

> I am frustrated that I cannot perceive any performance improvements in
> CPUs since the 4th Gen i7s. This is likely due to the software I use
> does not gain any perceptible improvement from running on
> a faster CPU?

Not really, it's simply that, since the end of [Dennard
scaling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennard_scaling) around 2007, we
don't know how to make CPUs faster, really.  Progress is *very* slow.
That's why the number of cores has gone up, since we still know how to
do that.  Sadly, for many tasks, additional cores make no difference.


        Stefan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274827

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 03:38:56PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Rh Kramer
> 
> --
> rhk
> 
> | Sorry about the sig -- some people think it is too long -- it is my soapbox.
No, you aren't, and you know you aren't. So drop the fake apology. Over
40 lines of sig on an approx 20 line email! At least fix your sig
separator!

-- 
NEWARK has been REZONED!!  DES MOINES has been REZONED!!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274847

You're mostly right, I'm not terribly sorry, but I don't use it on every email 
or post I make -- on debian-user typically only the first post in a thread I 
might start or possibly in the first comment I make to a thread.

I've fixed the sig separator.

But let me ask you, do you complain to those that quote all or most of the 
previous posts in a thread when they have no relevant comment about most of 
what they've quoted?

Have a good day!

On Saturday, November 23, 2024 03:58:33 PM Tom Furie wrote:
> No, you aren't, and you know you aren't. So drop the fake apology. Over
> 40 lines of sig on an approx 20 line email! At least fix your sig
> separator!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274848

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 12:34:17PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

> But let me ask you, do you complain to those that quote all or most of the 
> previous posts in a thread when they have no relevant comment about most of 
> what they've quoted?

Now and then, yes. Though it often doesn't have much impact, it
occasionally does. Whether it's often enough to make a difference I
can't say, as I haven't done a study on the matter.

Cheers,
Tom

-- 
Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet than your
acquaintances will know you in a thousand years.
		-- Richard Bach, "Illusions"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274828

On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 15:38:56 -0500
rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

> 64GB SSD

Sorry, I can't tell you for sure if Linux will load on one of these, not
having done the experiment.

I can tell you that I would not plan on dual booting. I have Windows 11
on two of my machines here, and have shrunk its partition down to 60
GiB, in addition to the 592 MiB recovery partition. As Windows uses
37 GiB, that leaves 24 GiB at most available for Linux. Unless you can
pare the Windows installation down considerably.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#274829

On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 03:38:56PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> I see an attractive deal on a laptop that is shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode 
> (link below).
> 
> I assume (I know), but am not sure that I will be able to load Linux on that 
> laptop -- can anyone tell me for sure?
> 
> PS: I'd also want to expand the RAM and I have to find out if I can do that.
> 
> cc'ing me would be helpful, I subscribe to the list but can't keep up with 
> reading it anymore -- I will try to pay attention for the next week or so for 
> any responses.
> 
>    * [[https://www.newegg.com/asus-l510ka-nb21-15-6-intel-pentium-silver-
> n6000-4gb-intel-uhd-graphics-64-gb/p/N82E16834236521?Item=N82E16834236521]
> [ASUS 15.6" Vivobook Go Laptop, FHD, Intel Pentium N6000 Quad Core, 4GB RAM, 
> 64GB SSD, Windows 11 in S Mode, Star Black, L510KA-NB21]]
> 

These are very much like a Chromebook-style cheap machine. Windows 11 S mode
is Windows 11 locked down to secure apps from the Microsoft Store.

Be _especially_ careful on the disk size: this may be a flash disk or 
whatever and not upgradeable. A bit small.

A great machine for a primary school student whose school runs Windows.
Not so great for real use in my biased opinion - I have had Debian
running in 4GB and 32G of flash disk but it was painfully slow. 

Cheap machine at cheap price but your level of hardship may be commensurate.

> Thank you!
> 

You're welcome. All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater
(amacater@debian.org)

> Rh Kramer
> 
> --
> rhk
> 
> | Sorry about the sig -- some people think it is too long -- it is my soapbox.
> 
> (sig revised 20240703 -- new first paragraph (above))
> (sig revised 20241111 -- new penultimate paragraph)
>                 
> No entity has permission to use this email to train an AI. 
> 
> If you reply: snip, snip, and snip again; leave attributions; avoid HTML; 
> avoid top posting; and keep it "on list".  (Oxford comma (and semi-colon) 
> included at no charge.)  If you revise the topic, change the Subject: line.  
> If you change the topic, start a new thread.
> 
> Writing is often meant for others to read and understand (legal documents 
> excepted?).   Make it easier for your reader by various means, including 
> liberal use of whitespace (short paragraphs, separated by whitespace / blank 
> lines) and minimal use of (obscure?) jargon, abbreviations, acronyms, and 
> references.
> 
> If someone has already responded to a question, decide whether any response 
> you add will be helpful or not ...
> 
> A picture is worth a thousand words.  A video (or "audio"): not so much -- 
> divide by 10 for each minute of video (or audio) or create a transcript and 
> edit it to 10% of the original.  (Remember Cicero who did not have enough time 
> to write a short missive.)
> 
> A speaker who uses ahhs, ums, or such may have a real physical or mental 
> disability, or may be showing disrespect for his listeners by not properly 
> preparing in advance and thinking before speaking. (That speaker might have 
> been "trained" to do this by being interrupted often if he pauses.)
> 
> A radio (or TV) station which broadcasts speakers with high pitched voices (or 
> very low pitched / gravelly voices) (which older people might not be able to 
> hear properly) disrespects its listeners.   Likewise if it broadcasts 
> extraneous or disturbing sounds (like gunfire or crying), or broadcasts 
> speakers using their native language (with or without an overdubbed 
> translation).
> 
> | A news broadcast or snippet thereof which ends with the correspondent's name 
> instead of a recap of at least some key point(s) of the story does a 
> disservice to its (casual) listeners.
> 
> A person who writes a sig this long probably has issues and disrespects (and 
> offends) a large number of readers. ;-)
> 

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#274833

On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 10:07:57PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 03:38:56PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > I see an attractive deal on a laptop that is shipped with Windows 11 in S-mode 
> > 
> > I assume (I know), but am not sure that I will be able to load Linux on that 
> > laptop -- can anyone tell me for sure?

That should be the vendor.
And if the vendor doesn't care, don't care about that vendor.


> > PS: I'd also want to expand the RAM and I have to find out if I can do that.
> > 
> > cc'ing me would be helpful, I subscribe to the list but can't keep up with 
> > reading it anymore -- I will try to pay attention for the next week or so for 
> > any responses.
> > 
> > 
> 
> These are very much like a Chromebook-style cheap machine. Windows 11 S mode
> is Windows 11 locked down to secure apps from the Microsoft Store.
> 
> Be _especially_ careful on the disk size: this may be a flash disk or 
> whatever and not upgradeable. A bit small.
> 
> A great machine for a primary school student whose school runs Windows.
> Not so great for real use in my biased opinion - I have had Debian
> running in 4GB and 32G of flash disk but it was painfully slow. 

Slow for todays standards. I did have fun
with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_PC in the days.

 
> Cheap machine at cheap price but your level of hardship may be commensurate.
> 
> > Thank you!
> > 
> 
> You're welcome. All the very best, as ever,

Way too kind.

Calling cheap asses cheap asses is IMNSHO better kindness for mankind.

I'm in doubt what is better, expressing

  So you want Linux on a computer that is being sold without Linux.
  Somehow you got "cheap deal" and doubt in your mind. 
  Then the doubt is redirected to this community.
  Only for the short term "cheap deal".
  That might be unawareness, but I'm bold enough to call it stupidy.
  Feel free to remain stupid, feel free to get some awareness.
  Try to understand what buying power is, try to imaginate that you
  want within five years another computer with Linux, imaginate that
  your neighbourg wants next month a computer with Linux.
  
or ignoring the unreasonable request.
 
> Andy Cater
> (amacater@debian.org)
> 
> > Rh Kramer
> > | Sorry about the sig -- some people think it is too long -- it is my soapbox.
Forty, 40, lines deleted.
> > A person who writes a sig this long probably has issues and disrespects (and 
> > offends) a large number of readers. ;-)

That ';-)' is only sustainable in e-world.
In real world it gets corrected.


Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

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#274834

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On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 09:51:16AM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote:

[...]

> Way too kind.
> 
> Calling cheap asses cheap asses is IMNSHO better kindness for mankind.

Don't be so harsh on people. Rather be harsh on the corps fleecing them.

Trying to get a cheap computer is understandable if your budget is low.

This Asus thing is a honeytrap. It'll trap you into Windows, and it'll
trap you into a box you'll have to throw away once the next Windows
version comes out. At least that is what Asus gets from Microsoft for
doing this -- but I'd guess they get some more kickback on top.

Me? I have long stretches in my life where my budget is tight. I buy
refurbished laptops (currently the luxury of a Lenovo x260 with 16G
of RAM and a 2T SSD). Yes, it's my work machine.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#274836 — OT: Re: Trolling

On 11/24/24 09:51, Geert Stappers wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 10:07:57PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 03:38:56PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
>> Groeten
> Geert Stappers
 >

This person is known to try to flame a conversation and is also doing
that  kind of trolling on the dnsmasq mailing list.

--
John Doe

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#274839 — Re: OT: Re: Trolling

Hi,

On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 11:37:03AM +0100, john doe wrote:
> This person is known to try to flame a conversation and is also doing
> that  kind of trolling on the dnsmasq mailing list.

Meanwhile over on debian-devel they are applying cluebats to screen
reader users for top posting. Just not a very nice person to converse
with, I think.

https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/Z0GIEgfxqD4hRdBU@gpm.stappers.nl

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#274843 — Re: OT: Re: Trolling

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On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 11:37:03AM +0100, john doe wrote:
> On 11/24/24 09:51, Geert Stappers wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 10:07:57PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 03:38:56PM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Groeten
> > Geert Stappers
> >
> 
> This person is known to try to flame a conversation and is also doing
> that  kind of trolling on the dnsmasq mailing list.

For $DEITY's sake, folks. Try to stick to the message, not the person.
Everything else makes a mailing list unlivable.

Pretty please.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#274853 — Re: OT: Re: Trolling

On 2024-11-25 01:01, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> 
> For $DEITY's sake, folks. Try to stick to the message, not the person.
> Everything else makes a mailing list unlivable.
> 

Totally agree with you Tomas.

Everyone's knowledge background is different, like me who is a beginner. 
The community should try to be inclusive and accepting, just like the 
open culture of Linux itself.

Thanks.

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