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BD backup?

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  BD backup? Eben King <eben@gmx.us> - 2024-11-16 18:40 +0100
    Re: BD backup? Arno Lehmann <al@its-lehmann.de> - 2024-11-16 18:50 +0100
      Re: BD backup? eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-16 19:50 +0100
      Re: BD backup? Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2024-11-16 23:30 +0100
        Re: BD backup? eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-16 23:40 +0100
          Re: BD backup? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-11-17 03:30 +0100
      Re: BD backup? Jean-François Bachelet <jfbachelet@free.fr> - 2024-11-17 00:40 +0100
        Re: BD backup? eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-17 20:10 +0100
          Re: BD backup? Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2024-11-18 02:00 +0100
            Re: BD backup? Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2024-11-18 02:20 +0100
          mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2024-11-19 11:30 +0100
            Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-19 16:10 +0100
              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2024-11-19 16:30 +0100
              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) Markus Schönhaber <debian-user@list-post.mks-mail.de> - 2024-11-19 16:30 +0100
              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2024-11-19 16:40 +0100
                Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2024-11-25 22:10 +0100
              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-20 01:50 +0100
                Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-11-20 06:40 +0100
                  Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-20 16:20 +0100
                    Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-11-20 16:30 +0100
                      Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-20 17:30 +0100
                        Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-11-20 17:40 +0100
                          Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-20 18:10 +0100
                            Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2024-11-20 18:30 +0100
                            Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-11-20 19:00 +0100
                            Re: mail sig separator Felix Miata <mrmazda@stanis.net> - 2024-11-20 21:00 +0100
                        Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-11-20 21:20 +0100
                          Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-11-20 21:40 +0100
                            Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-11-21 05:50 +0100
                              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-11-21 07:20 +0100
                              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-11-21 07:20 +0100
                                Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-11-21 11:10 +0100
                            Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-21 16:10 +0100
                              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-11-21 16:20 +0100
                              Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-11-22 00:40 +0100
                                Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-11-22 01:10 +0100
                                  Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-11-22 07:10 +0100
                      Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-11-21 04:20 +0100
                        Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-11-21 16:30 +0100
                    Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-21 17:10 +0100
                      Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-21 17:20 +0100
                      Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-21 17:50 +0100
                        Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-21 20:40 +0100
                Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) eben@gmx.us - 2024-11-20 17:40 +0100
                Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-11-20 18:00 +0100

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#274563 — BD backup?

My wife bought a Blu-ray disk at a library sale, and now I need to transcode
its contents and stick them on the media server so we can watch it.  So, I
did the naïve thing and tried to read it using Handbrake 1.6.1.  It read
titles 23 (5:00) and 25 (0:47).  Obviously something's not right.  DVDs work
properly, but this is the first BD I've tried.  What do I need to add to
make it work?  Thanks.

eben@cerberus:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID:	Debian
Description:	Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Release:	12
Codename:	bookworm

eben@cerberus:~$ sudo hdparm -i /dev/sr0
[sudo] password for eben:

/dev/sr0:

  Model=HL-DT-ST BD-RE  WH14NS40, FwRev=1.05, SerialNo=KL9O53C1412
  Config={ Fixed Removable DTR<=5Mbs DTR>10Mbs nonMagnetic }
  RawCHS=0/0/0, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=0
  BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=unknown, MaxMultSect=0
  CurCHS=0/0/0, CurSects=0, LBA=yes, LBAsects=0
  IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
  PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
  DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
  UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 *udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 udma6
  AdvancedPM=no
  Drive conforms to: unknown:  ATA/ATAPI-3,4,5,6,7

  * signifies the current active mode

eben@cerberus:~$ vlc /dev/sr0
VLC media player 3.0.21 Vetinari (revision 3.0.21-0-gdd8bfdbabe8)
keydbcfg.c:701: No valid AACS configuration files found
aacs.c:121: No usable AACS libraries found!
dec.c:197: aacs_open() failed: -2!
bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar
bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar
keydbcfg.c:701: No valid AACS configuration files found
aacs.c:121: No usable AACS libraries found!
dec.c:197: aacs_open() failed: -2!
bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar
bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar

--
Frankly, your argument wouldn't float were the sea composed of mercury.
               -- Biff

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#274564

Hi,

Am 16.11.2024 um 18:36 schrieb Eben King:
> My wife bought a Blu-ray disk at a library sale, and now I need to 
> transcode
> its contents and stick them on the media server so we can watch it.  So, I
> did the naïve thing and tried to read it using Handbrake 1.6.1.  It read
> titles 23 (5:00) and 25 (0:47).  Obviously something's not right.  DVDs 
> work
> properly, but this is the first BD I've tried.  What do I need to add to
> make it work?  Thanks.

Digital Restrictions Management is bad.

I know of no real Open Source solution to that problem, but have very 
good results using MakeMKV under Windows. It should be possible to build 
that for Linux, but I never tried.

Plan to spens ome time, and start at 
https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3 if you like!

Cheers,

Arno

-- 
Arno Lehmann

IT-Service Lehmann
Sandstr. 6, 49080 Osnabrück

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#274573

On 11/16/24 12:47, Arno Lehmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am 16.11.2024 um 18:36 schrieb Eben King:
>> My wife bought a Blu-ray disk at a library sale, and now I need to
>> transcode its contents and stick them on the media server so we can
>> watch it.  So, I did the naïve thing and tried to read it using
>> Handbrake 1.6.1.  It read titles 23 (5:00) and 25 (0:47).  Obviously
>> something's not right.  DVDs work properly, but this is the first BD
>> I've tried.  What do I need to add to make it work?  Thanks.
>
> Digital Restrictions Management is bad.

Aw heck I hate that stuff.  Are there BDs that _don't_ use DRM and that I
can read with OSS?

> Plan to spens ome time, and start at
> https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3 if you like!

Thanks.

--
Argon walks into a bar.
The bartender says "We don't serve noble gasses here!"
Argon doesn't react.

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#274581

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Nov 16, 2024 at 5:07 PM Arno Lehmann <al@its-lehmann.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am 16.11.2024 um 18:36 schrieb Eben King:
> > My wife bought a Blu-ray disk at a library sale, and now I need to
> > transcode
> > its contents and stick them on the media server so we can watch it.  So,
> I
> > did the naïve thing and tried to read it using Handbrake 1.6.1.  It read
> > titles 23 (5:00) and 25 (0:47).  Obviously something's not right.  DVDs
> > work
> > properly, but this is the first BD I've tried.  What do I need to add to
> > make it work?  Thanks.
>

Did you try playing the BD with VLC? VLC is supposed to support BD. I have
a super-multi drive with BD but I have never tried watching movies with it.
You may have to install libbluray2 and gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly.



> Digital Restrictions Management is bad.
>
> I know of no real Open Source solution to that problem, but have very
> good results using MakeMKV under Windows. It should be possible to build
> that for Linux, but I never tried.
>
> Plan to spens ome time, and start at
> https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3 if you like!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arno
>
> --
> Arno Lehmann
>
> IT-Service Lehmann
> Sandstr. 6, 49080 Osnabrück
>
>

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

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#274582

On 11/16/24 17:21, Timothy M Butterworth wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 16, 2024 at 5:07 PM Arno Lehmann <al@its-lehmann.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Am 16.11.2024 um 18:36 schrieb Eben King:
>>> My wife bought a Blu-ray disk at a library sale, and now I need to
>>> transcode its contents and stick them on the media server so we can
>>> watch it.  So, I did the naïve thing and tried to read it using
>>> Handbrake 1.6.1.  It read titles 23 (5:00) and 25 (0:47).  Obviously
>>> something's not right.  DVDs work properly, but this is the first BD
>>> I've tried.  What do I need to add to make it work?  Thanks.
>>
>
> Did you try playing the BD with VLC?

Yes:

 > eben@cerberus:~$ vlc /dev/sr0
 > VLC media player 3.0.21 Vetinari (revision 3.0.21-0-gdd8bfdbabe8)
 > keydbcfg.c:701: No valid AACS configuration files found
 > aacs.c:121: No usable AACS libraries found!
 > dec.c:197: aacs_open() failed: -2!
 > bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
 > bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar
 > bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
 > bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar
 > keydbcfg.c:701: No valid AACS configuration files found
 > aacs.c:121: No usable AACS libraries found!
 > dec.c:197: aacs_open() failed: -2!
 > bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
 > bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar
 > bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.
 > bdj.c:801: BD-J check: Failed to load libbluray.jar

> You may have to install libbluray2 and gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly.

Both are apparently installed.

--
Unfortunately, our Bright Young PFY will no longer be assisting
      with expeditions downtown, as he has been dubbed the
        Telecom Destruction Bunny and banned from taking
his aura anywhere near anything major. -- Anthony DeBoer on ASR

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#274584

On 17/11/2024 05:37, eben@gmx.us wrote:
>  > eben@cerberus:~$ vlc /dev/sr0
>  > VLC media player 3.0.21 Vetinari (revision 3.0.21-0-gdd8bfdbabe8)
>  > keydbcfg.c:701: No valid AACS configuration files found
>  > aacs.c:121: No usable AACS libraries found!
>  > dec.c:197: aacs_open() failed: -2!
>  > bdj.c:614: libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar not found.

Disclaimer: I have never had a BlueRay drive.

apt search libbluray
Sorting... Done
Full Text Search... Done
libbluray-bdj/stable,testing 1:1.3.4-1 all
   Blu-ray Disc Java support library (BD-J library)
[...]

apt show libbluray-bdj
[...]
  NB: Most commercial Blu-Ray are restricted by AACS or BD+ technologies 
and this
  library is not enough to playback those discs.
  .
  BD-J support is important because many of the advanced features and extra
  content in Blu-ray movies uses BD-J. Programs designed to provide 
support for
  those features must depend on this.

<https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/all/libbluray-bdj/filelist>
confirms that the package contains libbluray-awt-j2se-1.3.4.jar
Another way to find the package is
<https://packages.debian.org/file:libbluray-awt-j2se-1.3.4.jar>
(I do not have apt-file installed since I rarely need it.)

So I would start from installing the package to check if vlc is able to 
play the disk when the library from error messages is available.

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#274583

hello :)

Le 16/11/2024 à 18:47, Arno Lehmann a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> Am 16.11.2024 um 18:36 schrieb Eben King:
>> My wife bought a Blu-ray disk at a library sale, and now I need to 
>> transcode
>> its contents and stick them on the media server so we can watch it.  
>> So, I
>> did the naïve thing and tried to read it using Handbrake 1.6.1.  It read
>> titles 23 (5:00) and 25 (0:47).  Obviously something's not right.  
>> DVDs work
>> properly, but this is the first BD I've tried.  What do I need to add to
>> make it work?  Thanks.
> 
> Digital Restrictions Management is bad.
sure !

> I know of no real Open Source solution to that problem, but have very 
> good results using MakeMKV under Windows. It should be possible to build 
> that for Linux, but I never tried.
> 
> Plan to spens ome time, and start at https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/ 
> viewforum.php?f=3 if you like!

note that vlc on debian reads and play BlueRay disks just fine :) (just 
be sure sure that libluray is installed)

you can rip it with vlc.

Jeff

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#274610

On 11/16/24 18:31, Jean-François Bachelet wrote:
>
> note that vlc on debian reads and play BlueRay disks just fine :) (just be
> sure sure that libluray is installed)

I have libbluray-2.  However it says "NB: Most commercial Blu-Ray are
restricted by AACS or BD+ technologies and this library is not enough to
playback those discs."

libaacs0 is also installed, but it says "This package DOES NOT provide any
key or certificate that could be used to decode encrypted copyrighted
material. It is based on the official public AACS specification only."

--
You can't get a leopard to change his spots... You can explain it care-
fully to the leopard, but it will just sit there lookng at you, knowing
that you are made of meat. After a while it will perhaps kill you.
                Geoffrey Pullum, Language Log (2007-01-04)

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#274620

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, Nov 17, 2024 at 6:22 PM <eben@gmx.us> wrote:

> On 11/16/24 18:31, Jean-François Bachelet wrote:
> >
> > note that vlc on debian reads and play BlueRay disks just fine :) (just
> be
> > sure sure that libluray is installed)
>
> I have libbluray-2.  However it says "NB: Most commercial Blu-Ray are
> restricted by AACS or BD+ technologies and this library is not enough to
> playback those discs."
>
> libaacs0 is also installed, but it says "This package DOES NOT provide any
> key or certificate that could be used to decode encrypted copyrighted
> material. It is based on the official public AACS specification only."
>

To download and install a Blu-ray AACS certificate, you can:
Download a KEYDB.cfg file from a source like ArchWiki
Copy the file to the directory ~/.config/aacs
The KEYDB.cfg file contains VUK data that's needed to decrypt Blu-ray
discs. The file is available in all languages, but only the disc name is
translated. It's recommended to update the file regularly, as new versions
are sometimes released.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Blu-ray#:~:text=Download%20a%20KEYDB
.,provided%20from%20time%20to%20time.

KEYDB.cfg Download http://fvonline-db.bplaced.net/


> --
> You can't get a leopard to change his spots... You can explain it care-
> fully to the leopard, but it will just sit there lookng at you, knowing
> that you are made of meat. After a while it will perhaps kill you.
>                 Geoffrey Pullum, Language Log (2007-01-04)
>
>

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

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#274622

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, Nov 17, 2024 at 7:54 PM Timothy M Butterworth <
timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 17, 2024 at 6:22 PM <eben@gmx.us> wrote:
>
>> On 11/16/24 18:31, Jean-François Bachelet wrote:
>> >
>> > note that vlc on debian reads and play BlueRay disks just fine :) (just
>> be
>> > sure sure that libluray is installed)
>>
>> I have libbluray-2.  However it says "NB: Most commercial Blu-Ray are
>> restricted by AACS or BD+ technologies and this library is not enough to
>> playback those discs."
>>
>> libaacs0 is also installed, but it says "This package DOES NOT provide any
>> key or certificate that could be used to decode encrypted copyrighted
>> material. It is based on the official public AACS specification only."
>>
>
> To download and install a Blu-ray AACS certificate, you can:
> Download a KEYDB.cfg file from a source like ArchWiki
> Copy the file to the directory ~/.config/aacs
> The KEYDB.cfg file contains VUK data that's needed to decrypt Blu-ray
> discs. The file is available in all languages, but only the disc name is
> translated. It's recommended to update the file regularly, as new versions
> are sometimes released.
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Blu-ray#:~:text=Download%20a%20KEYDB
> .,provided%20from%20time%20to%20time.
>
> KEYDB.cfg Download http://fvonline-db.bplaced.net/
>

You may also want to install the libbdplus0 package as well.


>
>
>> --
>> You can't get a leopard to change his spots... You can explain it care-
>> fully to the leopard, but it will just sit there lookng at you, knowing
>> that you are made of meat. After a while it will perhaps kill you.
>>                 Geoffrey Pullum, Language Log (2007-01-04)
>>
>>
>
> --
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀
>


-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

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#274657 — mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

Hi,

On Sun Nov 17, 2024 at 7:05 PM GMT, eben wrote:
> --

Just to point out that the mail signature separator is '-- ', i.e. with
a suffixed ' ' character.  Without it, Mail User Agent programs may not
recognise your signature as such.

-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
✎	 jmtd@debian.org
🔗	https://jmtd.net

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#274658 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 11/19/24 05:19, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun Nov 17, 2024 at 7:05 PM GMT, eben wrote:
>> --
>
> Just to point out that the mail signature separator is '-- ', i.e. with
> a suffixed ' ' character.  Without it, Mail User Agent programs may not
> recognise your signature as such.

That is what I see in the message to which you replied.  See the <1k
attachment.  This message also has a space.  Is that not what you see?

--
               "God does not play dice" -- Einstein
        "Not only does God play dice, he sometimes throws
        them where they can't be seen." -- Stephen Hawking

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#274660 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

Response below/inline for email eben@gmx.us wrote:
> (original email sent 19 Nov 2024 at 10:02)
> 
> That is what I see in the message to which you replied.  See the <1k
> attachment.  This message also has a space.  Is that not what you see?

Your post/email comes through without the space after the two dashes.

-- 
Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 31.0.50 2024-08-16) on Debian 12.6

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#274661 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

19.11.24, 16:02 +0100 eben@gmx.us:

> On 11/19/24 05:19, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Sun Nov 17, 2024 at 7:05 PM GMT, eben wrote:
>>> --
>>
>> Just to point out that the mail signature separator is '-- ', i.e. with
>> a suffixed ' ' character.  Without it, Mail User Agent programs may not
>> recognise your signature as such.
> 
> That is what I see in the message to which you replied.  See the <1k
> attachment.  This message also has a space.  Is that not what you see?
No. This is how the separator line looks like in your message's (quoted
printable) source:

"=2D-"

The "s added by me.

-- 
Regards
  mks

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#274663 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

On Tue Nov 19, 2024 at 3:02 PM GMT, eben wrote:
> That is what I see in the message to which you replied.  See the <1k
> attachment.  This message also has a space.  Is that not what you see?

I'm afraid not. Looking at your message source, I see

    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
and
    =2D-

So the sig separator is being content-encoded (which might  be  related)
and the trailing space appears to have been stripped.  You've  also  got
format=flowed in the Content-Type. I love  format=flowed!  Perhaps  your
formatter is (incorrectly¹) stripping the  trailing  space  as  part  of
encoding for that? 

[1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt § 4.3

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Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
✎	 jmtd@debian.org
🔗	https://jmtd.net

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#274872 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

Hi,

On Thu Nov 21, 2024 at 6:30 AM GMT, David Wright wrote:
> But can I ask you why you stopped using f=f when you changed address.

It wasn't a change of address, but a change of MUA or MUA config. I
certainly had it enabled at some point with mutt, and I changed the
way I used mutt (from mostly writing mail on the same machine as my
MTA, to mostly writing it on my end-user machine).  I don't know if
I stopped using it at that point, but in either case, I'm currently
using a different MUA (aerc) and I haven't yet investigated whether
it does f=f.

> Was it because you're now using quoted-printable for some reason,
> rather than 8bit.
>
> And perhaps I ought not to ask why the paragraph above is right-justified.

I was playing around with vim's bundled macros/justify.vim.

-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
✎	 jmtd@debian.org
🔗	https://jmtd.net

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#274673 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

On 11/19/24 10:31, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 10:02:59 -0500
> eben@gmx.us wrote:
>
> Hello eben@gmx.us,
>
>> That is what I see in the message to which you replied.  See the <1k
>> attachment.  This message also has a space.  Is that not what you see?
>
> I see what Jonathan sees.
>
> Your sig separator arrives here as "--".  If it leaves you as "-- ",
> which it seems to be based on your attached image, I'm not sure what's
> happening.

I guess until I find a smoking gun I'll just delete the signature and its
separator when sending to this list.

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#274684 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 07:41:25PM -0500, eben@gmx.us wrote:
> On 11/19/24 10:31, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 10:02:59 -0500
> > eben@gmx.us wrote:
> > 
> > Hello eben@gmx.us,
> > 
> > > That is what I see in the message to which you replied.  See the <1k
> > > attachment.  This message also has a space.  Is that not what you see?
> > 
> > I see what Jonathan sees.
> > 
> > Your sig separator arrives here as "--".  If it leaves you as "-- ",
> > which it seems to be based on your attached image, I'm not sure what's
> > happening.
> 
> I guess until I find a smoking gun I'll just delete the signature and its
> separator when sending to this list.

How do you add tyour sig? "By hand"? Note that Thunderbird seems to have a
way to add the signature itself, and then it adds the separator (by default).

Perhaps it is smarter, then?

Cheers
-- 
t

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#274699 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

On 11/20/24 00:29, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 07:41:25PM -0500, eben@gmx.us wrote:
>> On 11/19/24 10:31, Brad Rogers wrote:
>>> On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 10:02:59 -0500
>>> eben@gmx.us wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello eben@gmx.us,
>>>
>>>> That is what I see in the message to which you replied.  See the <1k
>>>> attachment.  This message also has a space.  Is that not what you see?
>>>
>>> I see what Jonathan sees.
>>>
>>> Your sig separator arrives here as "--".  If it leaves you as "-- ",
>>> which it seems to be based on your attached image, I'm not sure what's
>>> happening.
>>
>> I guess until I find a smoking gun I'll just delete the signature and its
>> separator when sending to this list.
>
> How do you add tyour sig? "By hand"?

No, under "Account Settings" in Tbird, gmx,"[x] Attach the signature from a
file", and that points to ~/.signature.  Then I have a script

#! /bin/sh

sigfile=~/.signature
list="$HOME/signatures"

while : ; do
     inotifywait -qq "$sigfile"
     fortune "$list" > "$sigfile"
done

that replaces the file with a new signature (without the separator) after
every use.  I guess Tbird supplies the separator.  For example, right now
~/.signature contains

--start--
Here in the US, we are so schizoid and deeply opposed to government
censorship that we insist on having unaccountable private parties
to do it instead.
               -- Bill Cole
--end--

The script runs whenever I'm in X.  Technically it should run whenever I'm
logged in, but the discrepancy hasn't reared its ugly head yet.

> Note that Thunderbird seems to have a
> way to add the signature itself, and then it adds the separator (by default).

It does.  Unfortunately it attaches the same one every time, and you have to
jump through hoops to get a randomized one.  This was easier, but I don't
understand why the separator (which I didn't choose) doesn't work.
Something is stripping trailing spaces when it shouldn't, maybe the same
thing that wraps other text.

Just for kicks:
This line has no trailing spaces.
This line has one trailing space.
This line has two trailing spaces.

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#274701 — Re: mail sig separator (was Re: BD backup?)

On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 10:13:20 -0500, eben@gmx.us wrote:
> Just for kicks:
> This line has no trailing spaces.
> This line has one trailing space.
> This line has two trailing spaces.

In the message I received, none of these lines have any trailing
spaces.

If I had to guess, I would guess that Thunderbird is composing HTML
email, and then translating it to plain text, with trailing spaces
being lost during that translation.  Including the trailing space on
the signature separator.

Just to double-check,

  This line has two leading and two trailing spaces.  

This line has two trailing spaces only.  

  This line has two leading spaces only.

I'm composing a plain text message in mutt, so there shouldn't be any
translation on my end.  We'll see if the mailing list does any.

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