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Groups > linux.debian.user > #270113 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-06-16 10:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2024-06-17 11:00 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 125 — 25 participants |
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Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 10:20 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Richard <rrosner5@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 15:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:50 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-16 16:00 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-17 13:00 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 13:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-18 13:10 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:00 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 16:20 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 16:30 +0200
Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 17:40 +0200
Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 17:50 +0200
Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-17 19:30 +0200
Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:10 +0200
Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:10 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 18:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 19:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 19:50 +0200
System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-18 07:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-18 10:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:20 +0200
RTC, was Re: System time/timezone David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:20 +0200
Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-19 21:40 +0200
Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:20 +0200
Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 05:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-19 06:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-18 13:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-19 13:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 19:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-20 07:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 07:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file tomas@tuxteam.de - 2024-06-20 08:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 04:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-21 05:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-21 06:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-22 18:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 04:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 05:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 07:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-23 08:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-23 15:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-23 16:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-26 15:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-24 15:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-24 15:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-06-24 17:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Heriberto Avelino <heriberto.avelino@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 00:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-06-24 17:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-24 18:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-24 18:20 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-25 00:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-25 00:20 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-25 00:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-06-25 10:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-26 12:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-26 18:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-26 19:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-28 06:20 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Erwan DAVID <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2024-06-28 07:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-06-28 08:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 11:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-06-30 03:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-06-25 20:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 21:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 03:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-23 14:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-24 02:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-23 17:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-21 13:20 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 18:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 07:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-21 06:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 05:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-22 07:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-22 17:20 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 04:40 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 05:10 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-23 21:50 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:30 +0200
Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-17 17:00 +0200
Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 17:10 +0200
Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:20 +0200
Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 16:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 13:10 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-20 13:20 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-20 13:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 16:10 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-21 06:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:40 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 16:10 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 18:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 10:40 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 13:20 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-25 14:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 15:00 +0200
Australia/Eucla timezone abbreviation (was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 17:20 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:10 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 10:50 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 06:40 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:50 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 11:20 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 14:10 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 14:20 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 13:30 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 17:50 +0200
Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 11:00 +0200
Page 5 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 Next page →
| From | Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-26 02:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ITp1f-5Cfl-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270408 |
On 24/6/24 00:53, Curt wrote: > On 2024-06-23, Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I think we are losing sight of the fact that all of timekeeping is an >> abstraction and over-generalization. Time zones were created to help >> regularize railroad schedules over wide areas. Timezones are an abstraction >> that permit us to _pretend_ that it is (physical) noon at the same clock >> time over an extended area. When in fact physical high-noon, determined by >> the sun's position in the sky, cannot be at the exact same time just a few >> centimeters west or east of my eyeballs. >> Well 150,000,000Km at 300,000Km/sec works out to 8min 20sec. There may be a second or 2 if you use accurate distance and speed of light. But then, the sun's circuit is slightly oval -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithrbau@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-21 13:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IRKtb-4uLY-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270329 |
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 23:17:42 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> And what am I to call the time that a system
> issues using that system default time zone?
If you mean the current time translated into that time zone, "local time"
is the traditional name for it.
If you mean an arbitrary past time, then it's just whatever the time
string says. "Three fifteen PM" or what have you. You're probably
reading log files or something, so it's convenient to have the times
presented in your own local time zone (assuming this matches the system's
default). This lets you align the log messages with any events that
you happen to remember ("hmm, that was about when the lightning storm
started"), or with logs from other computers.
Setting /etc/localtime to *your* time zone, assuming you're the primary
system administrator, just makes your life easier. That's all.
> If I boot up two computers
> and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your
> opinion to describe the time displayed?
They're out of sync. Or, at least one of them is. At this point
you check the NTP settings on both of them to find out which one is
at fault, and how to get it fixed. Maybe you check a wall clock or a
wrist watch or a cell phone as an independent time authority.
Or did you mean "the same time, but in two different time zones"? If
you displayed these times by running "date", which respects both the
TZ environment variable and the /etc/localtime symlink, then you figure
out which of them is set to an undesired value. And then you fix it.
Or, if it's set how you *want* it, then you leave it alone.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISanD-4KWa-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270342 |
On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 07:15:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 23:17:42 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > And what am I to call the time that a system > > issues using that system default time zone? > > If you mean the current time translated into that time zone, "local time" > is the traditional name for it. That might have worked when computers were big and heavy, but that's no longer the case. When you travel with your laptop, there could be two different local times, your one displayed by the computer, and the real local time that tells you when "last orders" will be called in the local pub. > > If I boot up two computers > > and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your > > opinion to describe the time displayed? > > They're out of sync. Or, at least one of them is. No, the kernel clocks are all in sync. > Or did you mean "the same time, but in two different time zones"? If > you displayed these times by running "date", which respects both the > TZ environment variable and the /etc/localtime symlink, then you figure > out which of them is set to an undesired value. And then you fix it. > Or, if it's set how you *want* it, then you leave it alone. Yes, they're set as desired. But now you've used 1.3k in your post, and I still don't have my adjective. The computers issue different times, because they're being used by different people for different purposes like in an internet café. I need to tell these people what time they're set to. I say to them "this system is on Dubai time, and that one's on Bahrain time. They know exactly what I mean, but what's the term for those times? (Other than system time, which is what I'd call it.) And it's not "local time", because the ferry we're on is about to leave Karachi, so clocks will be showing PKT. Cheers, David.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-22 18:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISbWq-4LZm-33@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270374 |
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:52:39 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 07:15:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > If I boot up two computers > > > and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your > > > opinion to describe the time displayed? > > > > They're out of sync. Or, at least one of them is. > > No, the kernel clocks are all in sync. Then you were unclear. You said "they display different times". That means one of them is wrong. The other one may be right, or they may both be wrong. > > Or did you mean "the same time, but in two different time zones"? If The following are the same time, but in two different time zones: 12:00:00 -0500 13:00:00 -0400 The following are different times: 12:00:00 -0500 12:26:00 -0500 > Yes, they're set as desired. So you meant "the same time, but in different time zones". You should have said that. > But now you've used 1.3k in your post, Because I have to write AROUND your errors!! > and I still don't have my adjective. Pick any damned word you want, then. I'm done caring. Set your computer the way you want to set it.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-23 06:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISnbb-4Tou-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270380 |
On Sat 22 Jun 2024 at 12:31:41 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:52:39 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 07:15:32 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > If I boot up two computers > > > > and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your > > > > opinion to describe the time displayed? > > > > > > They're out of sync. Or, at least one of them is. > > > > No, the kernel clocks are all in sync. > > Then you were unclear. You said "they display different times". That > means one of them is wrong. The other one may be right, or they may > both be wrong. None of them is wrong. They're both showing the time appropriate for the nationality of the passengers who are going to be directed to them. > > > Or did you mean "the same time, but in two different time zones"? If > > The following are the same time, but in two different time zones: > > 12:00:00 -0500 > 13:00:00 -0400 > > The following are different times: > > 12:00:00 -0500 > 12:26:00 -0500 > > > Yes, they're set as desired. > > So you meant "the same time, but in different time zones". You should > have said that. That's how you and I see them, but a passenger from Bahrain, say, sees things differently. They just want to be directed to a system on Bahraini time, just like ones at home. That expression caused consternation in some. > Pick any damned word you want, then. I'm done caring. Yes, I picked "system", as in Operating System, and not Kernel. Cheers, David.
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| From | Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-23 07:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISogV-4U3t-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270329 |
On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 12:18 AM David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > [...] > Well, that's a mouthful. And what am I to call the time that a system > issues using that system default time zone? The kernel clock counts ticks. The ticks are relative to Epoch, which is UTC. Ticks are what you see in the output of dmesg. So maybe call it UTC, GMT or Zulu? > If I boot up two computers > and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your > opinion to describe the time displayed? The NTP folks call them timekeepers when they are correct, and falsetickers when they are incorrect. But "them" are timeservers participating in the NTP protocol. See <https://www.ntp.org/reflib/papers/ptti.pdf> and RFC 5905, <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5905>. If the OS is not keeping accurate time, then I would call it a falseticker. If you only boot two computers, then you cannot be sure which computer is the falseticker. You need three or more time sources to determine which is the falseticker. As the saying goes, a person with a watch knows what time it is. A person with two watches is never sure. Jeff
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-21 06:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IREnL-4qSO-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270328 |
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On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 20/06/2024 11:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > "the system's > > time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", > > and others disagree 🙂 > > What term is appropriate in your opinion do describe the setting stored as > the /etc/localtime symlink? localtime(5) The default time zone (i.e. that one which is used when some process calls for one and hasn't specified one itself). > On 19/06/2024 11:37, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > Especially that bit with the "system timezone". Reminds me of some > > remote past, where a system actually had a timezone (and changed its > > clock twice a year). Back then we used to set all our networked > > Windows boxen to a time zone without summer time change (ISTR it > > was Monrovia/Liberia) to avoid having our Makefiles freaking out > > twice a year. > > I recall a checkbox do disable DST in Windows 95 or Windows 98, so perhaps > searching for a timezone without DST was not necessary. It's a log time ago, but we were a shop with a few pretty knowledgeable folks, so I guess we first tried something like that. > By the way, > <https://stackoverflow.com/tags/timezone/info> describes another style of > identifiers in the Microsoft TZ DB. At certain point I have realized that > "time zone" and "timezone" have a bit different meaning in the case of the > IANA database <https://data.iana.org/time-zones/theory.html> It's a complex matter, yes. Food for nerds :) Cheers -- t
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-22 05:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IRZBT-4Emw-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270335 |
On 21/06/2024 11:45, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: >> On 20/06/2024 11:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >>> "the system's >>> time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing", >>> and others disagree 🙂 >> >> What term is appropriate in your opinion do describe the setting stored as >> the /etc/localtime symlink? localtime(5) > > The default time zone (i.e. that one which is used when some > process calls for one and hasn't specified one itself). So you just believe that "system" is confusing. However other configuration files may be taken into account, e.g. ~/.config/ktimezonedrc for *default* timezone in KDE session of the specific user. From my point of view, adding "system-wide" to "default timezone" leaves less room for ambiguity. It is still important that neither TZ environment nor /etc/localtime must be respected by all processes. Anyway POSIX and libc are not designed for applications that need to work with multiple timezones simultaneously, so any system-wide hints may be disregarded. I think, you are biased treating "system" as tightly built-in while most of others assume "system-wide".
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-22 07:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IS1u1-4FAP-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270353 |
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On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 10:22:53AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
[...]
> I think, you are biased treating "system" as tightly built-in while most of
> others assume "system-wide".
Taking your bias out ("you are biased" -- "most of others") I'd
tend to agree :-)
You do have a point. Coming from the UNIX tradition, for me, X,
for example, isn't part of "the operating system". Much less a
desktop environment. For those coming from a Windows tradition
(remember: Microsoft once argued they couldn't remove Internet
Explorer from Windows for "technical reasons"?), it's the other
way around.
Cheers
--
t
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-22 17:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISaGZ-4Liv-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270335 |
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On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 09:53:47AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 06:45:58 (+0200), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: [...] > > > I recall a checkbox do disable DST in Windows 95 or Windows 98, so perhaps > > > searching for a timezone without DST was not necessary. > > > > It's a log time ago, but we were a shop with a few pretty knowledgeable folks, > > so I guess we first tried something like that. > > There was a Registry Key: > HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation\RealTimeIsUniversal > that you could set to 1 for UTC. I don't remember when it was > introduced. And, of course, it might have been present but > undocumented for years. Possible. I was happy to forget that I had anything to do with Windows :-) Cheers -- t
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| From | Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-23 04:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISlj3-4S3F-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270377 |
On 23/6/24 01:16, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > Possible. I was happy to forget that I had anything to do with > Windows 🙂 Especially delving into the registry -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithrbau@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00
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| From | Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-23 05:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISlM5-4Sun-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270335 |
On 23/6/24 00:53, David Wright wrote: > Styles change: there's a tendency in > English to evolve towards compound words, sometimes with hyphenation > along the way. Not to mention some cultures change how words are spelt: colour, odour, metres to quote a few. But don't fret. Some people pronounce the word for 1,000 metres as a measure of kills - kil-ometer. It should be kilo-metre. To support my agruement, try speedometer, gasometer, odometer. -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithrbau@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00
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| From | John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-23 21:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <ISBnP-53ag-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270396 |
Brad Rogers writes: > Due, mainly, to the literacy of the people that moved, rather than any > deliberate choice. That is, spelling was often a 'best guess'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster's_Dictionary#Noah_Webster's_American_Dictionary_of_the_English_Language -- John Hasler john@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-26 02:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IToHT-5C9a-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270396 |
On 23/6/24 18:56, Brad Rogers wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 13:01:10 +1000 > Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello Keith, > >> Not to mention some cultures change how words are spelt: colour, odour, >> metres to quote a few. > > Due, mainly, to the literacy of the people that moved, rather than any > deliberate choice. That is, spelling was often a 'best guess'. > > Oh, and in the UK, we used to spell it labor, too. It changed over the > years to conform with colour, etc. Not sure why, but possibly to do > with the Victorians insisting that language should conform to > (largely mathematical) rules. However, as a keen family historian, with > many certificates with people's occupation on, one can witness the > changes in spelling over a decade or so, on that paperwork. > Our union based Australian Labor Party has resisted that change. Never was sure why until your explanation. Now makes sense. But, I don't recall noticing the no 'u', when I was handing out how to vote papers as a teeny-bopper and young adult. -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithrbau@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IRffH-4aTi-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270235 |
>> It's *theoretically* possible for some daemons to be configured to use
>> a different time zone, or to be hard-coded to use UTC. I've never seen
>> this, but it could be done.
> In view of that, I think it's reasonable to drop the "default",
> and go with "system time zone", ie the time zone that the system
> clock it set to.
Funny, because I think on the contrary that the word "default" is key:
it conveys the information that this is just the time zone used by
default when converting a time to a human readable form.
You can drop "system" on the other hand, AFAIC. 🙂
Stefan
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| From | debian-user@howorth.org.uk |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-17 17:00 +0200 |
| Subject | time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IQlZT-3Bke-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270143 |
Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> wrote: > On 16/6/24 23:50, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 06:13:36PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly > 18:13:36 when I pressed send. I'd reckon it would likely have been > 08:13:36 UTC What's wrong with my system clock. I've not really > looked at the time on my originals before. I'll try to remember to > enter my local time as I press send I'm confused. Your time displays (Keith) look sensible to me, given they are in local time for somewhere like Brisbane. The only confusing display to me is what Greg's MUA showed when quoting your message. The time is correct but is shown in 12-hr +offset format, which is a bit weird and is in contrast to the way his own message time is displayed in 24-hr format.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-17 17:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IQm9z-3BCZ-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270168 |
On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 15:56:13 +0100, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote: > Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 16/6/24 23:50, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 06:13:36PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > > > It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly > > 18:13:36 when I pressed send. I'd reckon it would likely have been > > 08:13:36 UTC What's wrong with my system clock. I've not really > > looked at the time on my originals before. I'll try to remember to > > enter my local time as I press send > > I'm confused. Your time displays (Keith) look sensible to me, given > they are in local time for somewhere like Brisbane. > > The only confusing display to me is what Greg's MUA showed when quoting > your message. The time is correct but is shown in 12-hr +offset format, > which is a bit weird and is in contrast to the way his own message time > is displayed in 24-hr format. Mutt uses that 12-hour format by default. I just changed it in my configuration. This message uses the 24-hour format instead.
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| From | Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-22 10:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IS48x-4HfN-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270168 |
On 18/6/24 00:56, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote: > Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 16/6/24 23:50, Greg Wooledge wrote: >>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 06:13:36PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: >> >> It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly >> 18:13:36 when I pressed send. I'd reckon it would likely have been >> 08:13:36 UTC What's wrong with my system clock. I've not really >> looked at the time on my originals before. I'll try to remember to >> enter my local time as I press send > > I'm confused. Your time displays (Keith) look sensible to me, given > they are in local time for somewhere like Brisbane. Yes - except Brisbane remains in the dark ages and doesn't follow day light saving; despite the fact that the majority of people want it. Seems the controlling interests still think the sun will fade the curtains or the cows won't know when to wake up to be milked. As if! -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithrbau@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00
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| From | Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-22 16:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file |
| Message-ID | <IS9UB-4KLX-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270359 |
On Sat, 2024-06-22 at 18:11 +1000, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > On 18/6/24 00:56, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote: > > Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 16/6/24 23:50, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 06:13:36PM +1000, Keith Bainbridge > > > > wrote: > > > > > > It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly > > > 18:13:36 when I pressed send. I'd reckon it would likely have > > > been > > > 08:13:36 UTC What's wrong with my system clock. I've not really > > > looked at the time on my originals before. I'll try to remember > > > to > > > enter my local time as I press send > > > > I'm confused. Your time displays (Keith) look sensible to me, given > > they are in local time for somewhere like Brisbane. > > Yes - except Brisbane remains in the dark ages and doesn't follow day > light saving; despite the fact that the majority of people want it. > Seems the controlling interests still think the sun will fade the > curtains or the cows won't know when to wake up to be milked. As if! > > > Hi, Keith. I really envy you. How I wish I lived where Daylight Saving Time did not exist. I do not intend to start a long "back-and-forth" about the subject, but I feel compelled to say that I absolutely despise the very idea of Daylight Saving Time. Standard Time, all the time! :) [From 2024-06-22, -0400 UTC]
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| From | Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-20 13:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <IRnPX-4gBx-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #270143 |
On 17/6/24 18:26, Keith Bainbridge wrote: > > It was late afternoon on 16Jun2024 that I wrote this. Possibly 18:13:36 > when I pressed send. I'd reckon it would likely have been 08:13:36 UTC > What's wrong with my system clock. I've not really looked at the time > on my originals before. I'll try to remember to enter my local time as > I press send Evening folk - not good it seems. I can't find the separate thread that some wise person kindly started for this topic. Mmmmmm Thanks for those responses. When I find the thread again, I'll read ALL the responses and respond better, if this doesn't reply to your general suggestion. I reskon that they seem to indicate that the date/time in my original question are fine. the difficulty is more related to how we humans are interpreting the information we are reading. https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/manpages-dev/strftime.3.en.html is a list of place names for MANY parts of a date layout. I have set up the following code in my text substitution app: "%a %d%b%Y at %H:%M:%S =UTC %Z" Triggering that give me Thu 20Jun2024 at 20:51:19 =UTC +10:00 Seems to me that if the code writers of our various MUA would add the +UTC to the line that prints the various dates, we'd understand what they mean better. Meantime, we have to accept what we have. Thanks again. -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithrbau@gmail.com keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com +61 (0)447 667 468 UTC + 10:00
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