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Groups > linux.debian.user > #270113 > unrolled thread

Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Started byKeith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com>
First post2024-06-16 10:20 +0200
Last post2024-06-17 11:00 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 125 — 25 participants

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Contents

  Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 10:20 +0200
    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Richard <rrosner5@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 15:30 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:50 +0200
    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-16 16:00 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:30 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-17 13:00 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 13:30 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:30 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-18 13:10 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:00 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 16:20 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 16:30 +0200
            Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 17:40 +0200
              Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 17:50 +0200
              Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-17 19:30 +0200
                Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:10 +0200
              Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:10 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 18:30 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 19:30 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 19:50 +0200
                System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-18 07:00 +0200
                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-18 10:10 +0200
                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:20 +0200
                      RTC, was Re: System time/timezone David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
                        Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:20 +0200
                          Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-19 21:40 +0200
                            Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
                          Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
                            Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:20 +0200
                          Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 05:00 +0200
                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-19 06:40 +0200
                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-18 13:10 +0200
                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-19 13:10 +0200
                        Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 19:10 +0200
                          Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-20 07:00 +0200
                            Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 07:30 +0200
                              Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file tomas@tuxteam.de - 2024-06-20 08:30 +0200
                            Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 04:40 +0200
                              Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-21 05:00 +0200
                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-21 06:50 +0200
                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-22 18:10 +0200
                                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 04:10 +0200
                                        Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 05:00 +0200
                                          Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:30 +0200
                                            Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 07:40 +0200
                                              Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-23 08:40 +0200
                                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-23 15:30 +0200
                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-23 16:30 +0200
                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:40 +0200
                                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-26 15:00 +0200
                                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-24 15:40 +0200
                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-24 15:50 +0200
                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-06-24 17:40 +0200
                                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Heriberto Avelino <heriberto.avelino@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 00:50 +0200
                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-06-24 17:50 +0200
                                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-24 18:10 +0200
                                                    Re: System time/timezone Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-24 18:20 +0200
                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-25 00:00 +0200
                                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-25 00:20 +0200
                                                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-25 00:30 +0200
                                                        Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-06-25 10:00 +0200
                                                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-26 12:50 +0200
                                                        Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-26 18:30 +0200
                                                          Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-26 19:00 +0200
                                                            Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-28 06:20 +0200
                                                              Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Erwan DAVID <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2024-06-28 07:10 +0200
                                                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-06-28 08:30 +0200
                                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 11:50 +0200
                                                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-06-30 03:40 +0200
                                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-06-25 20:40 +0200
                                                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 21:00 +0200
                                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 03:00 +0200
                                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:50 +0200
                                              Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:40 +0200
                                            Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-23 14:50 +0200
                                              Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-24 02:00 +0200
                                        Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-23 17:00 +0200
                                          Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:50 +0200
                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-21 13:20 +0200
                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
                                    Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 18:40 +0200
                                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:40 +0200
                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 07:50 +0200
                              Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-21 06:50 +0200
                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 05:30 +0200
                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-22 07:30 +0200
                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-22 17:20 +0200
                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 04:40 +0200
                                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 05:10 +0200
                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-23 21:50 +0200
                                  Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:30 +0200
                      Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
        time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-17 17:00 +0200
          Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 17:10 +0200
          Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:20 +0200
            Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 16:30 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 13:10 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-20 13:20 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-20 13:30 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:30 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 16:10 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-21 06:30 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:40 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 16:10 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
                  Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 18:30 +0200
                    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:30 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 10:40 +0200
                  Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 13:20 +0200
                    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-25 14:30 +0200
                      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 15:00 +0200
                      Australia/Eucla timezone abbreviation (was: Re: Maximum size  .bash_aliases file) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 17:20 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:10 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 10:50 +0200
    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 06:40 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:50 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 11:20 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 14:10 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 14:20 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 13:30 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 17:50 +0200
    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 11:00 +0200

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#270329 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromGreg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>
Date2024-06-21 05:00 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<IRCFj-4pHC-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270328
On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 20/06/2024 11:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > "the system's
> > time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing",
> > and others disagree 🙂
> 
> What term is appropriate in your opinion do describe the setting stored as
> the /etc/localtime symlink? localtime(5)

I've been using "system default time zone", for lack of a better phrase.
I feel it's important to convey that this is *not* a global setting that
affects "the system" in some universal way.  Like, for example, changing
where /etc/localtime points will (probably) *not* change the behavior
of any programs that are already running.  Nor will it change the behavior
of any programs that have the TZ environment variable set, or any that
simply ignore time zones and write everything in UTC or TAI64 or whatever.

It's just a default that many, but not all, programs may use when they run.

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#270336 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2024-06-21 06:50 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<IREnL-4qSO-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270329

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 11:17:42PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 20 Jun 2024 at 22:58:53 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> > > On 20/06/2024 11:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> Well, that's a mouthful. And what am I to call the time that a system
> issues using that system default time zone? If I boot up two computers
> and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your
> opinion to describe the time displayed?

The first step would be to realize that it's not the "computers" doing
the time display, but some processes running on them, and *those* are
the ones with the time zone (either default or explicitly set).

Cheers
-- 
t

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#270372 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISanD-4KWa-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270336
On Fri 21 Jun 2024 at 06:48:14 (+0200), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 11:17:42PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Thu 20 Jun 2024 at 22:58:53 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:32:10 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> > > > On 20/06/2024 11:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Well, that's a mouthful. And what am I to call the time that a system
> > issues using that system default time zone? If I boot up two computers
> > and they display different times, what term is appropriate in your
> > opinion to describe the time displayed?
> 
> The first step would be to realize that it's not the "computers" doing
> the time display, but some processes running on them, and *those* are
> the ones with the time zone (either default or explicitly set).

Yes, I realise that. The times are being displayed by the gettys,
controlled by the /etc/issue format string. Jobs are being run
by cron, logs written by rsyslogd, and so on. And the term is … ?

Cheers,
David.

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#270378 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2024-06-22 18:10 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISbtn-4LOJ-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270372
> Yes, I realise that. The times are being displayed by the gettys,
> controlled by the /etc/issue format string.  Jobs are being run
> by cron, logs written by rsyslogd, and so on. And the term is … ?

Maybe there simply isn't such a term.  The subject is sufficiently
complex/delicate that there can't be a term for every single situation.


        Stefan

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#270392 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromNicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-23 04:10 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISkQ1-4RN1-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270378

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 11:02 AM Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
wrote:

> > Yes, I realise that. The times are being displayed by the gettys,
> > controlled by the /etc/issue format string.  Jobs are being run
> > by cron, logs written by rsyslogd, and so on. And the term is … ?
>
> Maybe there simply isn't such a term.  The subject is sufficiently
> complex/delicate that there can't be a term for every single situation.
>

I think we are losing sight of the fact that all of timekeeping is an
abstraction and over-generalization. Time zones were created to help
regularize railroad schedules over wide areas. Timezones are an abstraction
that permit us to _pretend_ that it is (physical) noon at the same clock
time over an extended area. When in fact physical high-noon, determined by
the sun's position in the sky, cannot be at the exact same time just a few
centimeters west or east of my eyeballs.

        Stefan
>
>

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#270395 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromKeith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-23 05:00 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISlCp-4Sbi-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270392
On 23/6/24 12:08, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2024, 11:02 AM Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca 
> <mailto:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>> wrote:
> 
>      > Yes, I realise that. The times are being displayed by the gettys,
>      > controlled by the /etc/issue format string.  Jobs are being run
>      > by cron, logs written by rsyslogd, and so on. And the term is … ?
> 
>     Maybe there simply isn't such a term.  The subject is sufficiently
>     complex/delicate that there can't be a term for every single situation.
> 
> 
> I think we are losing sight of the fact that all of timekeeping is an 
> abstraction and over-generalization. Time zones were created to help 
> regularize railroad schedules over wide areas. Timezones are an 
> abstraction that permit us to _pretend_ that it is (physical) noon at 
> the same clock time over an extended area. When in fact physical high- 
> noon, determined by the sun's position in the sky, cannot be at the 
> exact same time just a few centimeters west or east of my eyeballs.
> 
>              Stefan
> 

I can't resist.

Have you ever pondered why the 'international date line' is so convoluted?

I reckon it would have been (almost) straight if UTC was set about 11° 
west of it's current position.

Any chance of fixing it?   Probably even less now that UK has left the EU.

As for odd time zones, we have a narrow one, somewhere between the West 
Australian border (with Sth Aust) and the first notable town on the road 
West - Norseman. It's 45 mins different from Sth Aust and the a further 
45 mins to main stream West Aust.  There might be 10,000 people live 
within it.     I think that somewhere is Baledonia. I'll check next time 
I drive over, but that'll be sometime next year, if I'm lucky.

-- 
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithrbau@gmail.com
keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC + 10:00

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#270397 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2024-06-23 06:30 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISn1v-4Tkp-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270395
On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 12:52:55 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote:

> Have you ever pondered why the 'international date line' is so convoluted?

Only on the odd occasion when an area decides to cross it, for
whatever reason. Like Samoa recently. And before that, the
creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+14:00), which became a press
story at the start of the new millennium.

> As for odd time zones, we have a narrow one, somewhere between the
> West Australian border (with Sth Aust) and the first notable town on
> the road West - Norseman. It's 45 mins different from Sth Aust and the
> a further 45 mins to main stream West Aust.  There might be 10,000
> people live within it.

$ TZ=Pacific/Kiritamati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date
Sun Jun 23 04:24:54 Pacific 2024
Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 +0845 2024
$ 

Cheers,
David.

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#270400 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromKeith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-23 07:40 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISo7f-4TZn-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270397
On 23/6/24 14:25, David Wright wrote:
> On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 12:52:55 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> 
>> Have you ever pondered why the 'international date line' is so convoluted?
> 
> Only on the odd occasion when an area decides to cross it, for
> whatever reason. Like Samoa recently. And before that, the
> creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+14:00), which became a press
> story at the start of the new millennium.
> 

+14:00??   I've only ever heard of maxima of +/- 12:00.   But see below

>> As for odd time zones, we have a narrow one, somewhere between the
>> West Australian border (with Sth Aust) and the first notable town on
>> the road West - Norseman. It's 45 mins different from Sth Aust and the
>> a further 45 mins to main stream West Aust.  There might be 10,000
>> people live within it.
> 
> $ TZ=Pacific/Kiritamati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date
> Sun Jun 23 04:24:54 Pacific 2024
> Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 +0845 2024
> $
> 

So Eucla: Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 would be UTC: Sun Jun 23 04:24:54
How do we get that time in the middle of the Pacific? Surely it would be 
Sat Jun22 18:24:54


And then I see a LOT of discussion on my suggestion about how MUA format 
the send time when people reply.     I'll get back to that later.

> Cheers,
> David.
> 

-- 
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithrbau@gmail.com
keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC + 10:00

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#270402 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Fromgene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2024-06-23 08:40 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISp3j-4UAN-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270400
On 6/23/24 01:35, Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> 
> On 23/6/24 14:25, David Wright wrote:
>> On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 12:52:55 (+1000), Keith Bainbridge wrote:
>>
>>> Have you ever pondered why the 'international date line' is so 
>>> convoluted?
>>
>> Only on the odd occasion when an area decides to cross it, for
>> whatever reason. Like Samoa recently. And before that, the
>> creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+14:00), which became a press
>> story at the start of the new millennium.
>>
> 
> +14:00??   I've only ever heard of maxima of +/- 12:00.   But see below
> 
A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see 
transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I 
retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't 
convert back to two 12 hour periods a day.  The AM/PM convention. So 
when I say its 22:30, its 10:30 PM to the neighbors next door.

>>> As for odd time zones, we have a narrow one, somewhere between the
>>> West Australian border (with Sth Aust) and the first notable town on
>>> the road West - Norseman. It's 45 mins different from Sth Aust and the
>>> a further 45 mins to main stream West Aust.  There might be 10,000
>>> people live within it.
>>
>> $ TZ=Pacific/Kiritamati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date
>> Sun Jun 23 04:24:54 Pacific 2024
>> Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 +0845 2024
>> $
>>
> 
> So Eucla: Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 would be UTC: Sun Jun 23 04:24:54
> How do we get that time in the middle of the Pacific? Surely it would be 
> Sat Jun22 18:24:54
> 
> 
> And then I see a LOT of discussion on my suggestion about how MUA format 
> the send time when people reply.     I'll get back to that later.
> 
>> Cheers,
>> David.
>>
> 

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#270406 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Fromeben@gmx.us
Date2024-06-23 15:30 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISvs5-4YV8-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270402
On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote:

> A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see transmitter
> logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 2002,
> I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two 12 hour
> periods a day.

I started using 24 hour time in junior high school with digital watches.  I
just thought it made more sense, especially for setting alarms.  Several
decades later I've not seen any reason to change, though it annoys my wife.

--
"Hear Me, for I am The Lord. I have seen your browser history, and am
wroth before it. Thus I shall strike down from the heavens a mighty blast,
and lo, [thou] shalt no longer have access to the naughty pictures."
sudo sudo The Book of Support, Chap 404 -- Osiris32 on TFTS

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#270407 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Fromgene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2024-06-23 16:30 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISwo9-4ZBC-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270406
On 6/23/24 09:23, eben@gmx.us wrote:
> On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote:
> 
>> A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see 
>> transmitter
>> logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 
>> 2002,
>> I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two 
>> 12 hour
>> periods a day.
> 
> I started using 24 hour time in junior high school with digital watches.  I
> just thought it made more sense, especially for setting alarms.  Several
> decades later I've not seen any reason to change, though it annoys my wife.
> 
Digital watches were much later, not arriving till the later 70's, and 
may have bothered my wives. but not enough to start a discussion over. 
One could say tongue in cheek, that I've had the ultimate revenge, 
outliving 3 of them now. Position open, must be able hold my coffee 
while watching something I'm doing.
> -- 
> "Hear Me, for I am The Lord. I have seen your browser history, and am
> wroth before it. Thus I shall strike down from the heavens a mighty blast,
> and lo, [thou] shalt no longer have access to the naughty pictures."
> sudo sudo The Book of Support, Chap 404 -- Osiris32 on TFTS
> 
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#270491 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromKeith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-26 02:40 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<IToRz-5Cc3-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270406
On 23/6/24 23:22, eben@gmx.us wrote:
> On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote:
> 
>> A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see 
>> transmitter
>> logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 
>> 2002,
>> I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two 
>> 12 hour
>> periods a day.
> 
> I started using 24 hour time in junior high school with digital watches.  I
> just thought it made more sense, especially for setting alarms.  Several
> decades later I've not seen any reason to change, though it annoys my wife.
> 
> -- 
> "Hear Me, for I am The Lord. I have seen your browser history, and am
> wroth before it. Thus I shall strike down from the heavens a mighty blast,
> and lo, [thou] shalt no longer have access to the naughty pictures."
> sudo sudo The Book of Support, Chap 404 -- Osiris32 on TFTS
> 


Sounds like a good argument for an analogue clock

-- 
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithrbau@gmail.com
keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC + 10:00

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#270498 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Fromeben@gmx.us
Date2024-06-26 15:00 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ITApH-5Jf8-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270491
On 6/25/24 20:36, Keith Bainbridge wrote:
>
> On 23/6/24 23:22, eben@gmx.us wrote:
>>
>> I started using 24 hour time in junior high school with digital watches.  I
>> just thought it made more sense, especially for setting alarms.  Several
>> decades later I've not seen any reason to change, though it annoys my wife.
>
> Sounds like a good argument for an analogue clock

Yeah.  If I could find a 24-hour analog clock that set itself from NTP or
whatever, I'd be set.  I have a 24-hour analog clock but it spent a few
decades on a sub and I no longer trust the springs, so it's a display piece now.

--
I guess I'm a little weird. I like to talk to trees and animals.
That's okay though; I have more fun than most people. - Bob Ross

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#270430 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2024-06-24 15:40 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISS5k-5eqH-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270402
On 2024-06-23, gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
>> 
> A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see 
> transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I 
> retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't 
> convert back to two 12 hour periods a day.  The AM/PM convention. So 
> when I say its 22:30, its 10:30 PM to the neighbors next door.

Here in France I grew used to it very easily, and now the AM PM convention
seems wrought with potential error. I'm sure we've crashed a space vehicle or
two do to the potential for conflating the two, like we did when we
mixed up miles for kilometers (or vice-versa).

When my mom came to visit one time in the nineties she requested I
change my alarm clock to AM PM time (it is now 15:25 here in the Gallic
regions, where the weather has finally turned summery after forty days and
forty nights of rain).

Celsius too is only a matter of habit. 30° is hot; you don't translate
anymore. It is what it is. Like a pomme is an apple and une feuille is a
leaf. You can become confused, though, when filling out US forms where
the birth date is written M/D/Y instead of D/M/Y, and sometimes you have
to be careful not commit the silly mistake that will entrain months
of delay in intricate *dédales* of the administration. 

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#270431 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2024-06-24 15:50 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISSeZ-5euZ-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270430
On 2024-06-24, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> On 2024-06-23, gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see 
>> transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I 
>> retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't 
>> convert back to two 12 hour periods a day.  The AM/PM convention. So 
>> when I say its 22:30, its 10:30 PM to the neighbors next door.
>
> Here in France I grew used to it very easily, and now the AM PM convention
> seems wrought with potential error. I'm sure we've crashed a space vehicle or
        fraught!!!
> two do to the potential for conflating the two, like we did when we
> mixed up miles for kilometers (or vice-versa).
>
> When my mom came to visit one time in the nineties she requested I
> change my alarm clock to AM PM time (it is now 15:25 here in the Gallic
> regions, where the weather has finally turned summery after forty days and
> forty nights of rain).
>
> Celsius too is only a matter of habit. 30° is hot; you don't translate
> anymore. It is what it is. Like a pomme is an apple and une feuille is a
> leaf. You can become confused, though, when filling out US forms where
> the birth date is written M/D/Y instead of D/M/Y, and sometimes you have
> to be careful not commit the silly mistake that will entrain months
> of delay in intricate *dédales* of the administration. 
>
>


-- 

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#270434 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromBret Busby <bret@busby.net>
Date2024-06-24 17:40 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISTXr-5fL4-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270430
On 24/6/24 21:41, Erwan David wrote:
> Le 24/06/2024 à 22:38, Curt a écrit :
>> On 2024-06-23, gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
>>> A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see
>>> transmitter logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I
>>> retired in 2002, I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't
>>> convert back to two 12 hour periods a day.  The AM/PM convention. So
>>> when I say its 22:30, its 10:30 PM to the neighbors next door.
>> Here in France I grew used to it very easily, and now the AM PM 
>> convention
>> seems wrought with potential error. I'm sure we've crashed a space 
>> vehicle or
>> two do to the potential for conflating the two, like we did when we
>> mixed up miles for kilometers (or vice-versa).
>>
>> When my mom came to visit one time in the nineties she requested I
>> change my alarm clock to AM PM time (it is now 15:25 here in the Gallic
>> regions, where the weather has finally turned summery after forty days 
>> and
>> forty nights of rain).
>>
>> Celsius too is only a matter of habit. 30° is hot; you don't translate
>> anymore. It is what it is. Like a pomme is an apple and une feuille is a
>> leaf. You can become confused, though, when filling out US forms where
>> the birth date is written M/D/Y instead of D/M/Y, and sometimes you have
>> to be careful not commit the silly mistake that will entrain months
>> of delay in intricate *dédales* of the administration.
>>
>>
> AM/PM would not be so strange if between 11AM and 1 PM it was 12 AM ...
> 
The correct format for the 24 hour clock time, does not include a colon 
between the hours and the minutes - 10:30pm is 2230 in the 24 hour clock 
format.

Regarding the reference to degrees Celsius, as a person who remembers 
the switchover (in this region) from degrees Fahrenheit to the "metric" 
system, it is easy to remember, using the alternative name for the 
temperature units; at the time of the switch, it was used - Centigrade, 
as it was based on a 100 degree system, whereby zero degrees Centigrade, 
is the freezing point of (pure) water, at standard atmospheric pressure, 
and, one hundred degrees Centigrade, is the boiling point of (pure) 
water at standard atmospheric pressure.

And, degrees Centigrade (which is the name that I always use, not 
Celsius, as Centigrade is a meaningful name), is far more easy to 
comprehend, than either Fahrenheit (of the imperial system of units), 
or, Kelvin units (which does not include the use of the term "degrees"), 
whereby, from memory, zero degrees Centigrade, is 273.15 Kelvin units, 
if my memory is correct.

And, methinks that this content is, or, has become, somewhat off-topic...

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#270486 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromHeriberto Avelino <heriberto.avelino@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-26 00:50 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ITn97-5ANn-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270434

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Well,
The International BIPM writes the time with a colon:

https://www.bipm.org/en/
Best
Heriberto

On Tuesday, June 25, 2024, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon 24 Jun 2024 at 23:34:45 (+0800), Bret Busby wrote:
>> On 24/6/24 21:41, Erwan David wrote:
>> > Le 24/06/2024 à 22:38, Curt a écrit :
>
>> > > When my mom came to visit one time in the nineties she requested I
>> > > change my alarm clock to AM PM time (it is now 15:25 here in the
Gallic
>> > > regions, where the weather has finally turned summery after
>> > > forty days and
>> > > forty nights of rain).
>
>> > AM/PM would not be so strange if between 11AM and 1 PM it was 12 AM ...
>> >
>> The correct format for the 24 hour clock time, does not include a
>> colon between the hours and the minutes - 10:30pm is 2230 in the 24
>> hour clock format.
>
> I have failed miserably to find a clock display in our house that
> doesn't include a colon in the time display. So I thought Google's
> Images page might have some and, indeed, there are one or two.
>
> Where did you find this "correct" format? AFAICT, adding colons
> to a string of digits is used as a self-documenting way of indicating
> it's a time, whether time-of-day or an interval or period.
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>

-- 

**********************************************************

La vida es corta pero ancha / Life is short but wide
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia

Centro INAH-Colima

Calz. Pedro A. Galván Norte 502

Col. Zalatón

Colima, Colima

México

CP 28000
**********************************************************

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#270435 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

FromBret Busby <bret@busby.net>
Date2024-06-24 17:50 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISU77-5fQw-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270430
On 24/6/24 21:38, Curt wrote:

<snip>
> You can become confused, though, when filling out US forms where
> the birth date is written M/D/Y instead of D/M/Y, and sometimes you have
> to be careful not commit the silly mistake that will entrain months
> of delay in intricate *dédales* of the administration.
> 
This is because the USA is a few hundred years behind the rest of the 
world, and, cannot comprehend ISO standards -
the ISO standard for date, is
2024-06-24
YYYY-MM-DD

which is the most efficient way of expressing a date, using the 
components of year and month and day of the month

But, for a country that has yet to implement its constitution, it is not 
really so surprising.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#270436 — Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

Fromeben@gmx.us
Date2024-06-24 18:10 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Message-ID<ISUqt-5ggg-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270435
On 6/24/24 11:42, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 24/6/24 21:38, Curt wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> You can become confused, though, when filling out US forms where
>> the birth date is written M/D/Y instead of D/M/Y, and sometimes you have
>> to be careful not commit the silly mistake that will entrain months
>> of delay in intricate *dédales* of the administration.
>>
> This is because the USA is a few hundred years behind the rest of the world,
> and, cannot comprehend ISO standards -
> the ISO standard for date, is
> 2024-06-24
> YYYY-MM-DD
>
> which is the most efficient way of expressing a date, using the components
> of year and month and day of the month

I use that format where I can because ASCII sorting == date sorting.  No
weird mental gymnastics required.

--
AQUARIUS:  There's travel in your future when your tongue freezes to the
back of a speeding bus.  Fill the void in your pathetic life by playing
Whack-a-Mole 17 hours a day.  -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_

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#270437 — Re: System time/timezone

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2024-06-24 18:20 +0200
SubjectRe: System time/timezone
Message-ID<ISUAa-5gkD-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#270435
Bret Busby composed on 2024-06-24 23:42 (UTC+0800):

> The USA is a few hundred years behind the rest of the 
> world, and, cannot comprehend ISO standards -
> the ISO standard for date, is
> 2024-06-24
> YYYY-MM-DD

> which is the most efficient way of expressing a date, using the 
> components of year and month and day of the month

> But, for a country that has yet to implement its constitution, it is not 
> really so surprising.

We aren't always forced. Some devices offer only AM/PM time format and schizoid
date format, but not my hand or PCs, and neither our military. Cars and outboard
boat engines made outside the USA come to us with metric fasteners. We have 75mm,
100mm, 200mm and/or 400mm spacing on the backs of most display screens too! :) DPI
for screen densities I think we may be stuck with quite a while longer. :p
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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