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NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm?

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  NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm? Van Snyder <van.snyder@sbcglobal.net> - 2024-06-07 22:40 +0200
    Re: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm? Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-06-07 22:50 +0200
      Re: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm? Toni Mas Soler <antomassol@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 01:20 +0200
        Re: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm? Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-06-10 10:20 +0200
          Re: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-10 16:20 +0200
    Re: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-08 07:30 +0200
    Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in  Bookworm?) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-07-03 08:20 +0200
      Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in  Bookworm?) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-07-03 10:10 +0200
        Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-07-03 22:10 +0200
        Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in  Bookworm?) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-07-04 00:00 +0200
            Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm?) Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2024-07-04 09:10 +0200

#269981 — NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm?

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Has anybody been able to install the NVidia 340.108 video driver in
Debian 12?

The messages I found said "Support for it ended in 2019. Use nouveau."

But I seem to have trouble with nouveau. When I was running Debian 10
on a Dell Vostro 1700 laptop with NVidia GeForce 8400M graphics, I had
been able to install the driver, and had no trouble. I made the mistake
of installing Debian 12.5 on the same partition, so I don't have the
Debian 10 install anymore. It freezes so completely that the keyboard
doesn't work, so I can't switch to a TTY screen. Even if I "ssh" to it
from my desktop, I can't kill and restart the graphics. I have a script
to restart KDE, but it does nothing. Even "init 3" doesn't do the
trick. I have to hold down the power key to reboot. I don't think it's
a hardware problem that amazingly manifested simultaneously with a new
install.

Here's some too-late advice I've given to myself: Never blow away your
old install that appears to be working. If you don't have a new disk,
and you have room on the old one, make new boot and root partitions.
Mark only the new boot partition as the bootable one. Hook both boot
partitions to grub.

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#269982

Am Freitag, 7. Juni 2024, 22:29:30 CEST schrieb Van Snyder:
Hi! Sadly to tell, that I treid hard to get 340.xx running in Bookworm. The 
problem is: You can not get it build with the actual kernel sources.

I checked and the developers missed some dependencies, the NVidia driver needs 
at build time.

You can get running it, if you are using an old kernel, like th eone from 
buster, maybe bullseye. In these kernels the dependencies and the libs, the 
sources are searching, are existent.

However, maybe you can trick the build by adding the needed dependencies and 
things, the driver is searching. But I dunno, if this is a good idea.

I also tried the orginal sources from nvidia.com, but here the same dependency 
problem appeared.

In some former mails I asked the kernel developers for help, but there was no 
big interest in fixing things with closed source drivers (however, the kernel 
module is not closed source as far as I know). 

Most people are pointing to nouveau, but this is pita. Development in nouveau 
is also not much any more people told.

Thus, with this old graphics card in linux is a problem, although they are in 
many notebooks people still use (I am running a Lenovo T520, several years 
old, but still fast enough). It has also a NVidia-card built in which needs 
340.xx but I can not use it due to the lack of the kernel driver.

Just a hint: Sometimes the nvidia-config module says, you need 340.xx, but 
this is not always true. My card (with th eolder kernel) was running 390.xx, 
although th esystem told me, I have to use 340.xx. 390.xx was running like a 
charm, 340.xx crashed. So it lied.

Sorry, that I can help no further and for the bad news, but do not try too 
much - I fear, you will fail!

Have a nice day!

Hans 


> Has anybody been able to install the NVidia 340.108 video driver in
> Debian 12?
> 
> The messages I found said "Support for it ended in 2019. Use nouveau."
> 
> But I seem to have trouble with nouveau. When I was running Debian 10
> on a Dell Vostro 1700 laptop with NVidia GeForce 8400M graphics, I had
> been able to install the driver, and had no trouble. I made the mistake
> of installing Debian 12.5 on the same partition, so I don't have the
> Debian 10 install anymore. It freezes so completely that the keyboard
> doesn't work, so I can't switch to a TTY screen. Even if I "ssh" to it
> from my desktop, I can't kill and restart the graphics. I have a script
> to restart KDE, but it does nothing. Even "init 3" doesn't do the
> trick. I have to hold down the power key to reboot. I don't think it's
> a hardware problem that amazingly manifested simultaneously with a new
> install.
> 
> Here's some too-late advice I've given to myself: Never blow away your
> old install that appears to be working. If you don't have a new disk,
> and you have room on the old one, make new boot and root partitions.
> Mark only the new boot partition as the bootable one. Hook both boot
> partitions to grub.

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#270018

El Fri, 07 Jun 2024 14:56:23 -0700
Van Snyder <van.snyder@sbcglobal.net> va escriure el següent:

> On Fri, 2024-06-07 at 22:47 +0200, Hans wrote:
> > Just a hint: Sometimes the nvidia-config module says, you need
> > 340.xx, but this is not always true. My card (with th eolder
> > kernel) was running 390.xx, although th esystem told me, I have to
> > use 340.xx. 390.xx was running like a charm, 340.xx crashed. So it
> > lied.
> > 
> > Sorry, that I can help no further and for the bad news, but do not
> > try too much - I fear, you will fail!  
> 
> So far, this is the best advice, so don't apologize.
> 
> I had assumed that when NVidia said I need 340 that it is undoubtedly
> true. I'll try 390.
> 




Have you tried "nvidia-detect" package? This tells you what driver you
need.

In my machine, I installed nvdia-tesla-470-driver and it works fine.

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#270019

No, the NV6800M needs 340xx driver, not 390xx as I prior posted. However, I 
have a GF-119 in my Lenovo T520, where nvidia-detect says, it needs 340xx. 
But, although I got 340xx compiled for the kernel, it did not start.

I then build 390xx, which worked like a charm. This happened on my notebook 
and also on an older graphics card in my desktop pc (forgot, which graphic 
chip it was).

The 340xx I never got compiled in bookworm, even when downloaded the sources 
from bullseye and downgraded compiler and other things (except of kernel).

The issue: During build, the nvidia-sources were looking for some files, which 
were no more existent in the kernel headers since that version. So the build 
failed. 

I asked the developers of the kernel headers, to fix this, but they claimed, 
that NVidia has to fix it, not the developers. 

One can now argument for both sides. 

1. Either tell Nvidia, "hey fix your old drivers to our new headers, we 
removed some libs!"

or 

2. Tell the developers "Hey, please put back the libs, so that the kernel 
module of this old driver can be build again!"

In real life no one wants to care of it! Nvidia not, because this costs money 
and the developers not, because this is Nvidia and proprietrary (what is not 
quite correct, because the kernel-module, which is the part, that can not be 
build, is open-source).


Before you try: It is also not possible, to download the driver from the 
NVidia site directly, because you will run into the same issue again: It can 
not be build!

Personally I can not understand, why this is not beeing fixed. It is not a 
problem with the kernel-module itself (I mean, no bug in the function), but it 
just can not be build. This is the least, I would expect! However, this is 
just my own very personal Opinion and no one shall be feel blamed here with!

Hope, this makes a little bit clearer.

Oh, and of course, modern cards supported by 470 and higher, of course this 
can be build! But they do not support older cards (legacy cards).

Best

Hans
> Did the 470 driver work for the GeForce 8600M? I tried to install the
> 390 driver, but it said "This driver will ignore your GPU" so I didn't
> finish the installation.

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#270020

> In real life no one wants to care of it! Nvidia not, because this
> costs money  and the developers not, because this is Nvidia and
> proprietrary (what is not  quite correct, because the kernel-module,
> which is the part, that can not be  build, is open-source).

Since you say it's "open source", then "anyone" should be allowed to
update the code to adapt to the new kernel code.  IOW *you* can fix it,
or if you don't have the time/energy you may be able to find someone
else to fix it (potentially paying them for it).


        Stefan

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#269990

On 08/06/2024 03:29, Van Snyder wrote:
> Has anybody been able to install the NVidia 340.108 video driver in
> Debian 12?

I am not aware of current state of affairs. Several years ago it was 
possible to rebuild the .deb package (that uses DKMS) with additional 
patches to make the code compatible with changed kernel API. On that 
machine I had Ubuntu installed, but the procedure should be similar
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-304/+bug/1737750
You may try to find patches for newer kernels.

I do not remember graphics card model. The noveau driver caused more 
image artifacts that time.

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#270754 — Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm?)

Van Snyder composed on 2024-06-07 13:29 (UTC-0700):

> Has anybody been able to install the NVidia 340.108 video driver in
> Debian 12?
 
> The messages I found said "Support for it ended in 2019. Use nouveau."

It should have said more. Some of what it should have included appears following.

# aptitude search veau
i A libdrm-nouveau2            - Userspace interface to nouveau-specific kernel DRM service
p   xserver-xorg-video-nouveau - X.Org X server -- Nouveau display driver
# dpkg-query -W | grep veau
libdrm-nouveau2:amd64   2.4.114-1+b1
# lsmod | sort | grep veau
button                 24576  1 nouveau
drm                   614400  7 drm_kms_helper,drm_display_helper,drm_ttm_helper,ttm,nouveau
drm_display_helper    184320  1 nouveau
drm_kms_helper        212992  2 drm_display_helper,nouveau
drm_ttm_helper         16384  1 nouveau
i2c_algo_bit           16384  1 nouveau
mxm_wmi                16384  1 nouveau
nouveau              2433024  2
ttm                    94208  2 drm_ttm_helper,nouveau
video                  65536  1 nouveau
wmi                    36864  3 video,mxm_wmi,nouveau
#
A new nouveau module, 2433024 here, comes with every individual kernel, not any
separate package. It is the base level nouveau for KMS to function using drm
services. What you see that is not installed is the optional nouveau display
driver that is "experimental", "reverse-engineered", and carries the baggage
of unreliability. That baggage is optional, as above shows clearly I don't have
it installed....

> But I seem to have trouble with nouveau. When I was running Debian 10
> on a Dell Vostro 1700 laptop with NVidia GeForce 8400M graphics, I had

According to Wikipedia, 8400M is a code named G86 Tesla device on TSMC 80nm
process. I have nearly the same, a Tesla G84 80nm, though not laptop variety.
Output shown above and below is from it. Release date of mine was April 2007,
one month before your 8400M.

> been able to install the driver, and had no trouble. I made the mistake
> of installing Debian 12.5 on the same partition, so I don't have the
> Debian 10 install anymore. It freezes so completely that the keyboard
> doesn't work, so I can't switch to a TTY screen. Even if I "ssh" to it
> from my desktop, I can't kill and restart the graphics. I have a script
> to restart KDE, but it does nothing. Even "init 3" doesn't do the
> trick. I have to hold down the power key to reboot. I don't think it's
> a hardware problem that amazingly manifested simultaneously with a new
> install.

# inxi -CMSz --vs --zl --hostname
inxi 3.3.35-01 (2024-06-18)
System:
  Host: big41 Kernel: 6.1.0-22-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64
  Desktop: TDE (Trinity) v: R14.1.2 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: BIOSTAR model: T41 HD serial: N/A
    BIOS: American Megatrends v: 080015 date: 09/22/2009
CPU:
  Info: dual core model: Intel Core2 Duo E7600 bits: 64 type: MCP cache:
    L2: 3 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1603 min/max: 1603/3066 cores: 1: 1603 2: 1603
# inxi -Gaz
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA G84 [GeForce 8600 GT] vendor: XFX Pine driver: nouveau
    v: kernel non-free: series: 340.xx status: legacy (EOL~2019-12-xx) last:
    release: 340.108 kernel: 5.4 xorg: 1.20 arch: Tesla process: 40-80nm
    built: 2006-2013 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 16 ports:
    active: DVI-I-1,DVI-I-2 empty: none bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0402
    class-ID: 0300 temp: 70.0 C
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: Twin v: 3.0 driver: X:
    loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau
    display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 3600x1200 s-dpi: 120 s-size: 762x254mm (30.00x10.00")
    s-diag: 803mm (31.62")
  Monitor-1: DVI-I-1 pos: primary,left model: NEC EA243WM serial: <filter>
    built: 2011 res: 1920x1200 hz: 60 dpi: 94 gamma: 1.2
    size: 519x324mm (20.43x12.76") diag: 612mm (24.1") ratio: 16:10 modes:
    max: 1920x1200 min: 640x480
  Monitor-2: DVI-I-2 pos: right model: Dell P2213 serial: <filter>
    built: 2012 res: 1680x1050 hz: 60 dpi: 90 gamma: 1.2
    size: 473x296mm (18.62x11.65") diag: 558mm (22") ratio: 16:10 modes:
    max: 1680x1050 min: 720x400
  API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: nvidia nouveau platforms: device: 0 egl: 1.4
    drv: nouveau device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: egl: 1.4 drv: nouveau surfaceless:
    egl: 1.4 drv: nouveau x11: egl: 1.4 drv: nouveau inactive: wayland
  API: OpenGL v: 3.3 vendor: nouveau mesa v: 22.3.6 glx-v: 1.4 es-v: 3.0
    direct-render: yes renderer: NV84 device-ID: 10de:0402 memory: 474.6 MiB
    unified: no
#
I count 9 instances of string "nouveau" in that output. Some of them
represent duplication, but my point is "nouveau" does not have one
single meaning. In my case, the unreliable "experimental", "reverse-engineered"
nouveau is excluded from use. As result, my old NVidia cards, 3 Tesla and
2 Fermi, overall run X just as well as do my Intel and AMD/ATI GPUs do for their
generations. When I see complaints about "nouveau", I usually wonder what the
real problem is, and have often done as I'm doing here, trying to clarify:

1: nouveau does not have a monolithic meaning
2: based on my experience, "nouveau" need not be any impediment to competent X functionality

xserver-xorg-video-nouveau is an optional fly in the X ointment. Don't install
it, purge it if necessary, and your old NVidia GPU just might do OK.

PS: Once an attempt to install an NVidia proprietary driver is made, whether
actually supported or not, subsequent success using nouveau far more often
than not fails prior to perfect purging of the NVidia software by following
the installation instructions provided with it, and often fails anyhow. IOW,
once NVidia driver installation is attempted, a clean Debian installation,
absent xserver-xorg-video-nouveau, is the typical path to nouveau success.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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#270756 — Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm?)

On Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 02:16:20AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> Van Snyder composed on 2024-06-07 13:29 (UTC-0700):
> 
> > The messages I found said "Support for it ended in 2019. Use nouveau."
> 

This is support from Nvidia, with official Nvidia proprietary drivers

> > been able to install the driver, and had no trouble. I made the mistake
> > of installing Debian 12.5 on the same partition, so I don't have the
> > Debian 10 install anymore. It freezes so completely that the keyboard
> > doesn't work, so I can't switch to a TTY screen. Even if I "ssh" to it
> > from my desktop, I can't kill and restart the graphics. I have a script
> > to restart KDE, but it does nothing. Even "init 3" doesn't do the
> > trick. I have to hold down the power key to reboot. I don't think it's
> > a hardware problem that amazingly manifested simultaneously with a new
> > install.
> 

It's a software problem: Nvidia drivers conflict with nouveau in interesting
ways and, as Felix says, are very hard to remove once installed. This is
particularly a problem on high end laptops with more than one GPU - where
you need Optimus?? drivers.

> 
> PS: Once an attempt to install an NVidia proprietary driver is made, whether
> actually supported or not, subsequent success using nouveau far more often
> than not fails prior to perfect purging of the NVidia software by following
> the installation instructions provided with it, and often fails anyhow. IOW,
> once NVidia driver installation is attempted, a clean Debian installation,
> absent xserver-xorg-video-nouveau, is the typical path to nouveau success.
> -- 

I'd almost go further. A clean Debian install allowing the installation
to pick files should "just work". You might have lost some video
accelleration compared to the proprietary drivers but it should be fine.

If you need to install for something with dual GPUs, do a text only install
without installing any graphical environment _then_ and only then add
the appropriate magic to get dual GPUs to work.

You are using TDE. Do a text only install, uncheck all graphical desktops
 - you might need to install network manager if you are using wifi to 
install with. Reboot. Use nmtui or nmcli to connect to wireless.

At that point, install TDE - which is not currently a desktop supported
in the main Debian installer.

Resolve never to buy Nvidia again :)

All the very best, as ever

Andy
> Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
> 	based on faith, not based on science.
> 
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
> 
> Felix Miata
> 

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#270778 — Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs

On 4/7/24 02:29, Van Snyder wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-07-03 at 08:03 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>> Resolve never to buy Nvidia again :)
> 
> 1) On my brother's antique Dell Vostro 1700 laptop, the NVidia G68M 
> (GeForce 8400M GS) is soldered to the motherboard.
> 
> 2)I'm running NVidia in two desktops because my erstwhile SA gave them 
> to me when computers were decommissioned. At the time they were a big 
> step up. Now NVidia doesn't support them in Debian. What do you 
> recommend for them? Multiple monitors. No gaming but an occasional 
> video. And some features of the KDE Kinfocenter, especially the System 
> Monitor, either don't work at all, or just make a mess, without a 
> graphic accelerator.
> 
> 

I suggest that (and, this might not be liked on this list) you install 
on one of your computers, alongside Debian, so that you can choose which 
operating system to boot, Linux Mint (I run Linux Mint Mate), which has 
the drivers for NVIDIA graphics.

About ten years ago, I bought an Acer Aspire 773G (you might be able to 
find reference to this, in the list archives), and, it had (has) MS 
Windows 8 on it, that I could not use - too difficult.

It took me 18 months to get the computer going.

Only two non-MS operating systems had drivers for the CPU; dragonflyBSD, 
and Ubuntu Linux. The CPU is an i7, the name of the architecture of the 
CPU, is something like Haskell.

Of those two OS's, dragonflyBSD did not have the driver for the NVIDIA 
Optimum, and, the response that I got from the dragonflyBSD mailing 
list, was "Get Stuffed - we will not have drivers for NVIDIA - we are 
not here to provide a usable operating system!"

Ubuntu Linux was the only non-MS operating system, that had the nouveau 
driver, for the NVIDIA Optimum.

So, I switched to Ubuntu Linux (I believe that I was using Debian on my 
computers, up to then).

And then, Ubuntu Linux went wonky, a couple of years ago, with its 
snapcrap and mandatory fully automated updates, to eliminate usefulness 
and productivity, and other user-hostile stuff, and then I found out 
about Linux Mint, with the release of version 21, which is based on 
Ubuntu, but without the snapcrap and other Ubuntu wonkiness.

So, Linux Mint has the NVIDIA drivers; both native drivers, and, 
nouveau. I am using the NVIDIA drivers, on my computers.

I have four of my five computers, that have NVIDIA graphics

Now, having said that Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, the more common 
version is based on Ubuntu Linux - see
https://www.linuxmint.com/
but, a version of Linux Mint, is available, that is based on Debian - see
https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

Whether the LMDE version has the drivers for NVIDIA, I do not know, but, 
I do know that the version that is based on Ubuntu, does have the 
drivers, and, I have been using it with (mostly) no problems.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#270785 — Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm?)

On Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 11:29:43AM -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-07-03 at 08:03 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > Resolve never to buy Nvidia again :)
> 
> 1) On my brother's antique Dell Vostro 1700 laptop, the NVidia G68M
> (GeForce 8400M GS) is soldered to the motherboard.
> 

As above: if all else fails, install in text mode and then install a 
desktop environment. Don't try to install the Nvidia proprietary drivers.

> 2)I'm running NVidia in two desktops because my erstwhile SA gave them
> to me when computers were decommissioned. At the time they were a big
> step up. Now NVidia doesn't support them in Debian. What do you
> recommend for them? Multiple monitors. No gaming but an occasional
> video. And some features of the KDE Kinfocenter, especially the System
> Monitor, either don't work at all, or just make a mess, without a
> graphic accelerator. 
> 
>

Same here. 2 x Nvidia machines here - neither using Nvidia proprietary
drivers both using nouveau - difference being that these are running 
GNOME. I got given one Nvidia card - one's a 1050, one's a 1060 from 
memory.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
(amacater@debian.org)
 

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#270793 — Re: nouveau on old NV GPUs (was: NVidia 340 video driver in Bookworm?)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Tried again, somehow there was no subject sent with my last mail.



So, well, I believe I got a solution. However, not everyone might be happy with it, but maybe it 
will work.


I am running the kernel 6.7.12+bpo-amd64 on my system. This is a backport kernel, but 
it might also work with other kernels, too.


You also need to install the build environment, the easiest way is to use module-assistant.


If you got this set and installed linux-headers and so on, then do the following:


First, enter the line for sid into your /etc/apt/sources.list


deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/[1] sid main contrib non-free non-free-firmware


then do 


apt update


apt install nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver firmware-misc-nonfree


This should install all necessary files and build the kernel module. Here it did work. However, I 
had to use 390xx instead of 340xx, but both built here fine.


After it, reboot and try again if it is working.


Sometimes, nvidia-detect says, use 340xx-legacy, but I had some cases, where I in real had to 
use 390xx. So, if 340xx is not working, try 390xx.


Note: Do NOT upgrade any other files! I suggest, after installing both packages as above, 
remove the sid entry from sources.list and do again an 
apt update. Thus you are not going into the danger, to install any more packages from sid.


If you need bumblebee or primusrun, because you have two GPUs (one in the CPU and one 
extern), then use the packages from stable. This will work!


My notebook is a Lenovo T520 with Intel CPU (and internal Intel GPU) and also NVidia GPU as 
external GPU (soldered on mainboard). I have to use optimus, to get my external GPU.
 
I got my information from this site.
 
https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers[2][1]


Hope, this helps. 


Ah, and last but not least: Big thanks to the lads and guys, who made 340xx and 390xx 
buildable again, great work! Big big thank you!!! 


Here on my system, 390xx is working like a charm.


Good luck!


Hans 


--------
[1] https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers

--------
[1] http://deb.debian.org/debian/
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers

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