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Groups > linux.debian.user > #266119 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-01-17 17:30 +0100 |
| Last post | 2024-01-19 08:10 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 73 — 25 participants |
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rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2024-01-17 17:30 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-01-17 18:30 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Keith Bainbridgge <keithrbaugroups@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 00:10 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 02:30 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-01-18 08:40 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-18 12:10 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-01-18 12:20 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-18 12:50 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2024-01-18 14:00 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2024-01-17 19:30 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2024-01-17 21:00 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-17 21:20 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-01-17 22:00 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2024-01-18 02:40 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-01-18 12:20 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-01-18 13:50 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-18 14:10 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-01-18 15:30 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-01-26 16:40 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-26 17:30 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-01-28 18:00 +0100
Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-01-26 16:20 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2024-01-26 16:30 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-26 16:40 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2024-01-26 17:20 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2024-01-26 17:20 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> - 2024-01-26 19:10 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-01-26 20:50 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> - 2024-01-27 11:00 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-01-26 20:10 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2024-01-26 20:30 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-01-26 21:50 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-01-28 19:00 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-01-28 20:00 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync--delete-after) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-01-29 07:00 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 16:30 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2024-02-08 17:30 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-02-08 17:40 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-08 18:00 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-09 12:10 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-02-09 13:10 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-09 22:40 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-02-09 23:30 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-02-09 17:40 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-09 18:20 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-02-10 01:10 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-09 22:50 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-02-11 19:10 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-02-09 18:20 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-02-09 21:40 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-09 22:50 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-02-10 01:00 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-10 03:20 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-02-10 04:30 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-10 11:10 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-02-10 15:00 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-10 16:50 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2024-02-10 19:50 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-10 22:50 +0100
Re: Home UPS recommendations hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-11 02:00 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-01-26 16:20 +0100
Re: Data and hardware protection measures; was: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-26 17:00 +0100
Re: Data and hardware protection measures; was: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-01-28 19:30 +0100
Re: Data and hardware protection measures Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-01-28 20:30 +0100
Re: Data and hardware protection measures Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-01-28 21:50 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-01-27 14:10 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-01-18 05:20 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-01-18 15:40 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-01-18 16:10 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2024-01-18 22:10 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-01-18 22:50 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2024-01-19 03:40 +0100
Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2024-01-19 08:10 +0100
Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 Next page →
| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 13:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) |
| Message-ID | <I5xRD-8XiC-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267180 |
hw wrote: > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > > [...] > That sucks. I didn't know that they don't stand behind their > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer. > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. -dsr-
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| From | hw <hw@adminart.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 22:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) |
| Message-ID | <I5GLf-92y0-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267181 |
On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 06:44 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote: > hw wrote: > > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > > > [...] > > That sucks. I didn't know that they don't stand behind their > > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer. > > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. I've never heard of Liebert, they are rather expensive. Cyberpower seems to be cheap. Are they any good, and how is the battery availability? Can they even be monitored?
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| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 23:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) |
| Message-ID | <I5HxD-933B-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267197 |
hw wrote: > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 06:44 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote: > > hw wrote: > > > On Thu, 2024-02-08 at 15:29 +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > > > > [...] > > > That sucks. I didn't know that they don't stand behind their > > > products, and it makes APC not recommendable any longer. > > > > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > > > Liebert at the high end, CyberPower at the low end. > > I've never heard of Liebert, they are rather expensive. Cyberpower > seems to be cheap. > > Are they any good, and how is the battery availability? Can they even > be monitored? Liebert is very good, and -- as you said -- expensive. If you are outfitting a datacenter, they are usually on the list. Cyberpower is reasonably reliable; the batteries can be found online. They are USB connected devices readable by NUT. Some selected stats: battery.charge: 100 battery.charge.low: 10 battery.charge.warning: 20 battery.runtime: 3060 battery.runtime.low: 300 battery.type: PbAcid battery.voltage: 24.0 battery.voltage.nominal: 24 device.mfr: CPS device.model: CST135XLU device.type: ups driver.name: usbhid-ups driver.version: 2.8.0 driver.version.data: CyberPower HID 0.6 driver.version.internal: 0.47 driver.version.usb: libusb-1.0.26 (API: 0x1000109) input.voltage: 121.0 input.voltage.nominal: 120 output.voltage: 121.0 ups.beeper.status: enabled ups.load: 16 ups.mfr: CPS ups.productid: 0501 ups.realpower.nominal: 810 ups.serial: CDQHX2004035 ups.vendorid: 0764
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| From | "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 17:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) |
| Message-ID | <I5C4V-8ZIE-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267180 |
On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote: > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and so far I'm pretty happy with it... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 18:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) |
| Message-ID | <I5CHD-90ck-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267193 |
>> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from?
> I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has
> 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and so far I'm
> pretty happy with it...
Would they accept a warranty claim without having to run some
proprietary software (diagnostic and/or OS)?
Stefan
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 01:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5J6p-94dR-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267195 |
Stefan Monnier composed on 2024-02-09 12:18 (UTC-0500): >>> What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? >> I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and has >> 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and so far I'm >> pretty happy with it... > Would they accept a warranty claim without having to run some > proprietary software (diagnostic and/or OS)? Do any of them require they be used only by computer owners? If you use one for Linux and have an issue you expect would be covered by warranty, you might consider withholding your application. Some people use them for home entertainment centers and other electronic equipment that doesn't require Windows or MacOS. Just make sure they don't hear you connected any fan, heater or other electric motor bigger than the tiny ones propelling computer cooling fans. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
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| From | hw <hw@adminart.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 22:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) |
| Message-ID | <I5GUV-92Be-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267193 |
On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 11:34 -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: > On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote: > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and > has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and > so far I'm pretty happy with it... They seem to be extremely rare here. Are they any good, and how's the battery availability?
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| From | "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-11 19:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations (Was Re: rsync --delete vs rsync --delete-after) |
| Message-ID | <I6mr7-9tSJ-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267198 |
On Friday 09 February 2024 04:41:37 pm hw wrote: > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 11:34 -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: > > On Friday 09 February 2024 06:07:16 am hw wrote: > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > > > I have a Tripp-Lite sitting next to me here that replaced an APC and > > has 2-1/2 times the capabiliity. Been in service several weeks and > > so far I'm pretty happy with it... > > They seem to be extremely rare here. Where's "here"? I ordered mine from Home Depot, online. The wait until it arrived didn't seem excessive. > Are they any good, and how's the battery availability? It seems okay, and I haven't checked on the battery availability, no need at this point and if I did it'd probably change by the time I needed them anyhow. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 18:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5CHD-90ck-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267180 |
hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100): > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on the shelf in WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and Support", more to protect bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies than power outage here in the world's lightning capital. All my larger ones that are currently in service are Eaton or Tripp-Lite. My spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to extract swollen old batteries from. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
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| From | debian-user@howorth.org.uk |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 21:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5FPb-91ZD-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267194 |
Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote: > hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100): > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on > the shelf in WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and > Support", more to protect bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies > than power outage here in the world's lightning capital. All my > larger ones that are currently in service are Eaton or Tripp-Lite. My > spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to extract > swollen old batteries from. FWIW Eaton owns Tripp Lite, whilst APC is owned by Schneider Electric.
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| From | hw <hw@adminart.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-09 22:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5GUV-92Be-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267194 |
On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 12:10 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100): > > > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? > > I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on the shelf in > WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and Support", more to protect > bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies than power outage here in the world's > lightning capital. All my larger ones that are currently in service are Eaton or > Tripp-Lite. My spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to extract > swollen old batteries from. Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good prices. How's the battery availability with Eaton?
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 01:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5IWJ-93Oc-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267199 |
hw composed on 2024-02-09 22:45 (UTC+0100): > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 12:10 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >> hw composed on 2024-02-09 12:07 (UTC+0100): >> > What other manufacturers could we buy UPSs from? >> I bought my first APC just last year, because it was what I found on the shelf in >> WalMart, only 450VA, with "Best-in-class Service and Support", more to protect >> bedroom TV and recorder against anomalies than power outage here in the world's >> lightning capital. All my larger ones that are currently in service are Eaton or >> Tripp-Lite. My spare is a Powercom with steel frame and cover, hard to extract >> swollen old batteries from. > Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good > prices. How's the battery availability with Eaton? <https://batterysharks.com/csb-battery-hr1234w-battery-replacement-12v-9ah-version.html> has the very common physical attributes used by all my Eaton, Tripp-Lite and Powercom UPSes. The Powercom 2200VA uses 4, shipped with (I think) the 7.5AH variety. The other 3 use pairs. My 1000VA Eaton shipped with 7.5AH. My 1500VA Tripp-Lites came with 9AH. When I replace I only get the 9AHs so that the orphans that survive failure of a pair have the potential to better match the next orphan and delay another purchase a few months or more. Here in FL, replacement battery life averages under 30 months, no matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have averaged more like 54. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
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| From | hw <hw@adminart.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 03:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5L8d-97g2-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267206 |
On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 18:51 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > hw composed on 2024-02-09 22:45 (UTC+0100): > [...] > > Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good > > prices. How's the battery availability with Eaton? > > <https://batterysharks.com/csb-battery-hr1234w-battery-replacement-12v-9ah-version.html> > has the very common physical attributes used by all my Eaton, Tripp-Lite and > Powercom UPSes. Well, having batteries shipped over from the US would probably cost more than a new UPS. And the question is not so much if I can get the batteries now but more if I can get them at reasonable prices in 20 or 30 years or later and every time in between when I need them. That rules out Liebert, Cyperpower and Triplite due to uncertain or no availability. That only leaves Eaton. Does Eaton provide their own Linux software and/or do they accept monitoring results from other software like nut (assuming that apcupsd won't work for Eaton UPSs)? When I buy an UPS used so that there aren't any relevant warranty issues APC might produce, am I not still better off buying APC because the batteries are likely to be available? Also, Eaton is very hard to come by used while APC is very common here. > Here in FL, replacement battery life averages under 30 months, no > matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have averaged more like 54. How is that? Do you have frequent power outages that stress the batteries so much? 54 months? I'm getting confused now because I'm sure I replaced the batteries in my 10-year-old APC UPS three times now, two times with OEM batteries and last time --- recently --- with aftermarket ones because they doubled the price for the OEM ones. That would mean 5 years for the OEM batteries each --- and not 3 years like I said before. So 54 months could be right. Now I'm curious to see how long the aftermarket ones will last.
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 04:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5MdX-97YO-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267210 |
hw composed on 2024-02-10 03:18 (UTC+0100): > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 18:51 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >> hw composed on 2024-02-09 22:45 (UTC+0100): >> [...] >>> Hm, Powercom doesn't seem to exist here, but Eaton seems to have good >>> prices. How's the battery availability with Eaton? >> <https://batterysharks.com/csb-battery-hr1234w-battery-replacement-12v-9ah-version.html> >> has the very common physical attributes used by all my Eaton, Tripp-Lite and >> Powercom UPSes. > Well, having batteries shipped over from the US would probably cost > more than a new UPS. They are made in China. Surely there are UK sellers. The URL was simply provided as a representative of specifications of a very common SLA battery for UPS type. > That rules out Liebert, Cyperpower and Triplite due to uncertain or no > availability. That only leaves Eaton. Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC models. > Does Eaton provide their own Linux software and/or do they accept > monitoring results from other software like nut (assuming that apcupsd > won't work for Eaton UPSs)? Mine are all connected to a multitude of devices more to protect the hardware from a lousy power source. I don't try to use the software. When power fails, I shut things down when the outage lasts more than a few seconds. When you live on a power grid, extended outages are much less common than when on or near waterfront or political boundaries. Most of Florida's population has no out-of-state neighbors to share utilities with, making its grid more fragile. Being the lightning capital of the world doesn't help either. >> Here in FL, replacement battery life averages under 30 months, no >> matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have averaged more like 54. > How is that? Do you have frequent power outages that stress the > batteries so much? The nature of the beasts is that their use generates heat. These batteries don't like heat. The cooler they can be kept, the longer they can last. My thermostat temp setting in heating season is 78F, in cooling season 82F, and cooling season is much longer than heating season. In climates where heating season is most of the year and tstat is kept below 65F, I'm guessing likely they could last a decade or more. Battery orientation within the unit probably makes a difference, and even more, separation, with worst orientation side-by-side with no air space between. It's not easy to learn about such specs prior to purchase. UPS makers seem to want to keep battery specs top secret, out of marketing materials, even from manuals. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
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| From | hw <hw@adminart.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 11:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5St3-9bOP-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267211 |
On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 22:28 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > hw composed on 2024-02-10 03:18 (UTC+0100): > [...] > > Well, having batteries shipped over from the US would probably cost > > more than a new UPS. > > They are made in China. Surely there are UK sellers. It might be cheaper to ship them from China than from the UK. Apparently there's some kind of agreement in place that makes shipping stuff from China (or Hong Kong) cheap --- but I don't know if it applies to UPS batteries. > The URL was simply provided > as a representative of specifications of a very common SLA battery for UPS type. > > > That rules out Liebert, Cyperpower and Triplite due to uncertain or no > > availability. That only leaves Eaton. > > Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC models. Maybe, maybe not. I couldn't get replacement batteries for the UPS from HP not only because HP was so ridiculous as to tell me that I could pay for a support ticket to get a price for the batteries, but also because the replacement batteries I could get had smaller contacts. Since I didn't want to take the risk of burning down the place because the smaller contacts might have melted under load, I decided to get a new UPS. It wasn't too bad because I had only payed 65 for the UPS, and the batteries lasted about 3 years. I hate having to trash a perfectly good UPS just because the batteries aren't available, and shame on HP for being so environmentally friendly as to make and sell one-way UPSs. That kind of thing should be illegal. But it was a lesson about battery availability. > > Does Eaton provide their own Linux software and/or do they accept > > monitoring results from other software like nut (assuming that apcupsd > > won't work for Eaton UPSs)? > > Mine are all connected to a multitude of devices more to protect the > hardware from a lousy power source. I don't try to use the > software. When power fails, I shut things down when the outage lasts > more than a few seconds. Well, I need the UPSs monitored so the computer(s) can shutdown properly. > When you live on a power grid, extended outages are much less common > than when on or near waterfront or political boundaries. Most of > Florida's population has no out-of-state neighbors to share > utilities with, making its grid more fragile. Being the lightning > capital of the world doesn't help either. Did they put the power lines into the ground water or something like that? > > > Here in FL, replacement battery life averages under 30 months, no > > > matter the battery brand. OEM batteries have averaged more like 54. > > > How is that? Do you have frequent power outages that stress the > > batteries so much? > The nature of the beasts is that their use generates heat. These batteries don't > like heat. The cooler they can be kept, the longer they can last. My thermostat > temp setting in heating season is 78F, in cooling season 82F, and cooling season > is much longer than heating season. In climates where heating season is most of > the year and tstat is kept below 65F, I'm guessing likely they could last a decade > or more. At least you have some cooling. Basically nobody here has that, though it's probably becoming more widespread because it gets warmer all the time, and it's unbearable in the summer. Electricity is insanely expensive here and keeps getting more expensive all the time. > Battery orientation within the unit probably makes a difference, and > even more, separation, with worst orientation side-by-side with no > air space between. It's not easy to learn about such specs prior to > purchase. UPS makers seem to want to keep battery specs top secret, > out of marketing materials, even from manuals. Hm, if the OEM batteries actually lasted 5 years and if what you say is true, they must have been some awesome batteries. That UPS takes two batteries which are tightly packed, and they can get very warm.
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 15:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5W3E-9dMy-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267219 |
hw composed on 2024-02-10 11:01 (UTC+0100): > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 22:28 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >> Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC models. > Maybe, maybe not. I couldn't get replacement batteries for the UPS > from HP not only because HP was so ridiculous as to tell me that I > could pay for a support ticket to get a price for the batteries, but > also because the replacement batteries I could get had smaller > contacts. Contact size is part of an SLA battery's specs. Small contacts are terminal type "F1". I've never encountered a UPS that uses them. All I've encountered use terminal type "F2", which is 1/4" or about 6.35mm wide spade. > At least you have some cooling. Basically nobody here has that, > though it's probably becoming more widespread because it gets warmer > all the time, and it's unbearable in the summer. Electricity is > insanely expensive here and keeps getting more expensive all the time. It's a big planet. Where is your "here"? > Hm, if the OEM batteries actually lasted 5 years and if what you say > is true, they must have been some awesome batteries. That UPS takes > two batteries which are tightly packed, and they can get very warm. OEM batteries must hold up through warranties, so are probably more locally sourced for high quality rather than low cost from China. Less expensive UPS models might be designed for a shorter expected lifetime, overcharging more as they get older and heat takes its toll. It's not something very many consumers are equipped to test. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
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| From | hw <hw@adminart.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 16:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I5XM5-9eQT-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267228 |
On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 08:57 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > hw composed on 2024-02-10 11:01 (UTC+0100): > > > On Fri, 2024-02-09 at 22:28 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > > > > Those from the above URL are the same spec batteries used in many APC models. > > > Maybe, maybe not. I couldn't get replacement batteries for the UPS > > from HP not only because HP was so ridiculous as to tell me that I > > could pay for a support ticket to get a price for the batteries, but > > also because the replacement batteries I could get had smaller > > contacts. > > Contact size is part of an SLA battery's specs. Small contacts are > terminal type "F1". I've never encountered a UPS that uses them. All > I've encountered use terminal type "F2", which is 1/4" or about > 6.35mm wide spade. I don't remember how wide the contacts are the UPS from HP uses. 6.35mm is probably a common size, same as yellow connectors use. There are connectors of the same type that are wider than that. > > At least you have some cooling. Basically nobody here has that, > > though it's probably becoming more widespread because it gets warmer > > all the time, and it's unbearable in the summer. Electricity is > > insanely expensive here and keeps getting more expensive all the time. > > It's a big planet. Where is your "here"? Germany > > Hm, if the OEM batteries actually lasted 5 years and if what you say > > is true, they must have been some awesome batteries. That UPS takes > > two batteries which are tightly packed, and they can get very warm. > > OEM batteries must hold up through warranties, so are probably more > locally sourced for high quality rather than low cost from > China. Less expensive UPS models might be designed for a shorter > expected lifetime, overcharging more as they get older and heat > takes its toll. It's not something very many consumers are equipped > to test. The cheap APC models seem to produce a lot more heat, and their batteries don't seem to last as long. They work and they're not really a good deal. I don't have test equipment for UPCs, but you can feel how warm they get and see how cheaply they're built without special equipment.
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 19:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I60Ah-9gxU-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267234 |
On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:45:29 +0100 hw <hw@adminart.net> wrote: > > The cheap APC models seem to produce a lot more heat, and their > batteries don't seem to last as long. They work and they're not > really a good deal. I don't have test equipment for UPCs, but you can > feel how warm they get and see how cheaply they're built without > special equipment. > It's quite surprising how many complaints about swollen UPS batteries there are around the Net. Given the fairly light duties of the batteries almost all of the time, this is pretty well certain to be caused by overheating due to incompetent charging. Batteries, particularly lead-acid types, are not exactly new technology, and the correct charging of them is well understood. -- Joe
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-10 22:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I63ot-9ibw-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267244 |
On 2/10/24 13:40, Joe wrote: > On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:45:29 +0100 > hw <hw@adminart.net> wrote: > > >> >> The cheap APC models seem to produce a lot more heat, and their >> batteries don't seem to last as long. They work and they're not >> really a good deal. I don't have test equipment for UPCs, but you can >> feel how warm they get and see how cheaply they're built without >> special equipment. >> > > It's quite surprising how many complaints about swollen UPS batteries > there are around the Net. Given the fairly light duties of the batteries > almost all of the time, this is pretty well certain to be caused by > overheating due to incompetent charging. Batteries, particularly > lead-acid types, are not exactly new technology, and the correct > charging of them is well understood. > You have an excellent view of the problem. One of the problems with PBa batteries is the each one of the gender has a mind of its own, and If you don't fiddle with the charging circuit, you will never find the optimum voltage to charge that battery to. One of the things you never ever want to is look into a liquid acid battery and see it bubbling. That indicates and overcharge, the bubbling is the disassociated hydrogen and oxygen of the water component of the acid, which makes the water go away, leaving eve stronger acid.. Two instances I can regale you with. 1. shortly after I became the resident engineer at KXNE in NE Nebraska in '69, the two big truck batteries that started the 150 kw Cummins standby power failed, basically burned up from over charge. Replacing the batteries, they boiled like crazy. So I turn down the curent from a charger with a higher resistor, because it was banging over 2 amps into the 2 of then to get the 24 the starter needed but that was holding those up to around 29 volts. The next day I raised the resistor about 4x as they were still boiling. Wash, rinse, repeat till the trickle charge was down to around .005 amps. This was all it took for a trickle charge for a pair of 225ah large car batteries kept clean. 8 years later I'm bored out of my skull and had an offer to be the Chief at a station in NM, offering a 175% raise so I took it. Those batteries were then 8 years old, and still were trying to turn that 335 Cummins wrong side out starting it. When the weekly 15 minute exercise came up you heard the bendix slam into the flywheel, followed milliseconds later by the first bark, and 1 measly second later the lights were back on 2. While in Nebraska, it can get pretty cold, like -35F once in a while. I had put an ambulance alternator in my daily driver, and made a switching regulator for the voltage regulator but in series with the voltage reference zener diode, I added 4 common si rectifier diodes to use their negative temp effects to turn it up or down according to the underhood temps. 15 seconds after a -25F start, it had the battery back up to about 16 volts, but 20 minutes and 20 miles later it was down to abound 12.7 volts, and on a 105F day down to around 12.3 volts. That battery was then about 7 years old, still had its original water in it, spun the engine faster than it idled, when the missus threw a rod. The only thing I didn't get a chance to salvage was that alternator, the missus sold it to a junk yard the next day before I had a chance to pull it off. Getting to know the battery and how to treat it could bankrupt all the replacement battery makers. The acid SG is important, reject any battery whose label says SG is 1.280. buy the one that says 1.260, It will be a fraction of a volt lower, but treated right will actually live years longer. Modern gel cell's are even more quickly destroyed by over charging. Your trivia factoid for the day, from somebody who understands the chemistry. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | hw <hw@adminart.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-02-11 02:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Home UPS recommendations |
| Message-ID | <I66ml-9jVQ-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #267244 |
On Sat, 2024-02-10 at 18:40 +0000, Joe wrote: > On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:45:29 +0100 > hw <hw@adminart.net> wrote: > > > > > > The cheap APC models seem to produce a lot more heat, and their > > batteries don't seem to last as long. They work and they're not > > really a good deal. I don't have test equipment for UPCs, but you can > > feel how warm they get and see how cheaply they're built without > > special equipment. > > > > It's quite surprising how many complaints about swollen UPS batteries > there are around the Net. Given the fairly light duties of the batteries > almost all of the time, this is pretty well certain to be caused by > overheating due to incompetent charging. Batteries, particularly > lead-acid types, are not exactly new technology, and the correct > charging of them is well understood. > The batteries in the cheap ones were not swollen. They're just no fun to replace. Perhaps they use cheaper components that are less efficient and thus create more heat. That doesn't necessarily affect the batteries.
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