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How to use dmsetuup?

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  How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-03 17:30 +0100
    Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-03 17:50 +0100
    Re: How to use dmsetuup? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-03 18:10 +0100
    Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-03 22:50 +0100
      Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 01:00 +0100
        Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-04 01:50 +0100
    Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-03 23:20 +0100
      Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 01:10 +0100
      Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 12:50 +0100
        Re: How to use dmsetuup? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-04 14:50 +0100
          Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 18:30 +0100
            Re: How to use dmsetuup? tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-04 19:40 +0100
              Re: How to use dmsetuup? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-04 21:50 +0100
            Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-04 22:40 +0100
              Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 23:30 +0100
                Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 00:40 +0100
                  Re: How to use dmsetuup? yxcv@vienna.at - 2023-11-05 01:10 +0100
                  Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 02:00 +0100
                    Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 04:20 +0100
                      Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 05:10 +0100
                        Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 07:50 +0100
                          Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 10:50 +0100
                            Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 11:30 +0100
                              Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 16:30 +0100
                  Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-05 09:10 +0100
                    Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 21:20 +0100
                      Re: How to use dmsetuup? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-05 21:50 +0100
                        Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 23:30 +0100
                      Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-05 23:20 +0100
                        Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 23:50 +0100
                          Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-06 08:40 +0100
                    xorriso and SIGTERM/SIGINT handler (was: Re: How to use dmsetuup?) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-11-06 05:30 +0100
                      Re: xorriso and SIGTERM/SIGINT handler "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-06 09:00 +0100
          Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 23:10 +0100
    Re: How to use dmsetuup? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-11-04 10:40 +0100
      Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 13:30 +0100
    Re: How to use dmsetuup? Franco Martelli <martellif67@gmail.com> - 2023-11-06 16:50 +0100
      Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-06 17:30 +0100
      Re: How to use dmsetuup? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-11-08 00:50 +0100
        Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-08 01:30 +0100
          Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-08 06:10 +0100
          Re: How to use dmsetuup? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-08 06:40 +0100
            Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-08 11:30 +0100
              Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-08 19:10 +0100
                Re: How to use dmsetuup? jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-11-08 23:00 +0100
              Re: How to use dmsetuup? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-11-09 02:10 +0100
              Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-11 01:50 +0100
                Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-11 04:30 +0100
                  Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-11 18:00 +0100
                    Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-11 18:10 +0100
                      Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-11 18:40 +0100
                        Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-11 19:50 +0100
                          Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-11 21:50 +0100
                            Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-11 22:40 +0100
                          Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-11 22:10 +0100
                            Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-12 00:30 +0100
                            Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-12 00:40 +0100
                    Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2023-11-11 18:30 +0100
                    Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-12 01:10 +0100
                      Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-12 05:40 +0100
                        Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2023-11-13 11:40 +0100
                          Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-13 14:00 +0100
                      Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-11-12 14:20 +0100
                        Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-12 19:40 +0100
                      Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-12 18:20 +0100
                        Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-12 20:30 +0100
                          Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-12 21:20 +0100
                            Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-13 06:40 +0100
                              Linux supprt (was: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?]) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-13 13:50 +0100
                                Re: Linux supprt (was: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to  use dmsetuup?]) Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2023-11-13 16:00 +0100
                                  Re: Linux supprt Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-13 16:40 +0100
                                    Re: Linux supprt Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-11-13 22:50 +0100
                                Re: Linux supprt John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-13 19:00 +0100
                                  Re: Linux supprt <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-13 19:40 +0100
                                    Re: Linux supprt Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-11-14 18:40 +0100
                                      Re: Linux supprt <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-14 18:50 +0100
                            Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2023-11-13 15:10 +0100
          Re: How to use dmsetuup? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-11-09 01:50 +0100
            Re: How to use dmsetuup? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-11-09 16:20 +0100
              Re: How to use dmsetuup? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-09 17:50 +0100

Page 1 of 4  [1] 2 3 4  Next page →

#263081 — How to use dmsetuup?

Greetings all;
As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE 
syndrome, meaning No D-----d Examples.

I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as 
sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2

How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these 
to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch 
fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot?

If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another lvm 
for amanda to use.

I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects 
causing my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or digiKam, 
even firefox wants to write a new file to my /home partition.  This 
delay does not lockup the whole shebang, already open files in other 
workspaces seem to run at normal speeds, but opening a simple gui file 
requester to get where to put the file, and possibly rename it, takes 
anywhere from 30 seconds minimum to around 5 minutes just to draw the 
requester on screen. And while you are waiting, wondering if you even 
pressed the mouse button, there is ZERO acknowledgement the button has 
been pushed.  The mouse can be moved normally, but until the requester 
is fully drawn on screen, no other button clicks are registered.

This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but its 
been nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to 
help, suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 
32G of main memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual 
programs start with the trace. I have used it in the past, decade or 
more back up the log, and while it was noisy then, this is unusable.

Thanks for help with dmsetup.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#263084

On 11/3/23 12:27, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE 
> syndrome, meaning No D-----d Examples.
> 
> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as 
> sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
> 
> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these 
> to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch 
> fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot?
> 
> If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another lvm 
> for amanda to use.
> 
> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects 
> causing my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or digiKam, 
> even firefox wants to write a new file to my /home partition.  This 
> delay does not lockup the whole shebang, already open files in other 
> workspaces seem to run at normal speeds, but opening a simple gui file 
> requester to get where to put the file, and possibly rename it, takes 
> anywhere from 30 seconds minimum to around 5 minutes just to draw the 
> requester on screen. And while you are waiting, wondering if you even 
> pressed the mouse button, there is ZERO acknowledgement the button has 
> been pushed.  The mouse can be moved normally, but until the requester 
> is fully drawn on screen, no other button clicks are registered.

Miss-statement correction, s/b no other mouse clicks are registered to 
the app, workspaces can be switched and the requester is drawn on 
whatever workspace is then active when it is finally drawn.
> 
> This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but its 
> been nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to 
> help, suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 
> 32G of main memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual 
> programs start with the trace. I have used it in the past, decade or 
> more back up the log, and while it was noisy then, this is unusable.
> 
> Thanks for help with dmsetup.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#263086

gene heskett [2023-11-03 12:27:19] wrote:
> Greetings all;
> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE syndrome,
> meaning No D-----d Examples.

I don't think `dmsetup` is what you need anyway.

> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as
> sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
>
> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these to
> make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch fstab
> to mount it as /home on a reboot?

I found the following doc to be accessible:

     https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/logical_volume_manager_administration/raid_volumes

of course, your mileage may vary: I was already familiar with LVM.

> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects
> causing my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or
> digiKam, even firefox wants to write a new file to my /home partition.

Hmm... not sure adding LVM into the mix will help :-)
Maybe try and replace /home with a non RAID copy of it.

> nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to help,
> suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 32G
> of main memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual
> programs start with

You don't want `strace` to trace each and every syscall, instead you
want to filter out the irrelevant ones.  I'd start with `strace -e
trace=file', but the manpage includes many more knobs to play with.


        Stefan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#263097

On 11/3/23 09:27, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE 
> syndrome, meaning No D-----d Examples.
> 
> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as 
> sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
> 
> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these 
> to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch 
> fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot?
> 
> If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another lvm 
> for amanda to use.
> 
> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects 
> causing my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or digiKam, 
> even firefox wants to write a new file to my /home partition.  This 
> delay does not lockup the whole shebang, already open files in other 
> workspaces seem to run at normal speeds, but opening a simple gui file 
> requester to get where to put the file, and possibly rename it, takes 
> anywhere from 30 seconds minimum to around 5 minutes just to draw the 
> requester on screen. And while you are waiting, wondering if you even 
> pressed the mouse button, there is ZERO acknowledgement the button has 
> been pushed.  The mouse can be moved normally, but until the requester 
> is fully drawn on screen, no other button clicks are registered.
> 
> This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but its 
> been nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to 
> help, suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 
> 32G of main memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual 
> programs start with the trace. I have used it in the past, decade or 
> more back up the log, and while it was noisy then, this is unusable.
> 
> Thanks for help with dmsetup.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.


Not LVM, but FWIW I previously had my data on 2 @ 1.5 TB HDD md RAID1 
LUKS ext4 on Debian 9:

October 22, 2017

1.  Install StarTech HBA and Seagate 1.5 TB drives:

2.  Set up mdadm RAID1:

	https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/RAID_setup

	2017-10-22 22:40:19 root@po ~
	# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=2048
	2048+0 records in
	2048+0 records out
	1048576 bytes (1.0 MB, 1.0 MiB) copied, 0.0689901 s, 15.2 MB/s

	2017-10-22 22:46:16 root@po ~
	# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc count=2048
	2048+0 records in
	2048+0 records out
	1048576 bytes (1.0 MB, 1.0 MiB) copied, 0.0501681 s, 20.9 MB/s

	2017-10-22 22:55:48 root@po ~
	# mdadm --create --verbose /dev/md0 --level=mirror --raid-devices=2 
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1 
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
	mdadm: Note: this array has metadata at the start and
	    may not be suitable as a boot device.  If you plan to
	    store '/boot' on this device please ensure that
	    your boot-loader understands md/v1.x metadata, or use
	    --metadata=0.90
	mdadm: size set to 1465007488K
	mdadm: automatically enabling write-intent bitmap on large array
	Continue creating array? yes
	mdadm: Defaulting to version 1.2 metadata
	mdadm: array /dev/md0 started.

	2017-10-22 22:57:29 root@po ~
	# mdadm --detail --scan
	ARRAY /dev/md0 metadata=1.2 name=po:0 
UUID=2fb7086d:ccedcd0c:b5c286e2:3eb96d45

	2017-10-22 23:00:37 root@po ~
	# mdadm --detail --scan >> /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf

	2017-10-22 23:06:45 root@po ~
	# ll /dev/md0
	brw-rw---- 1 root disk 9, 0 2017/10/22 22:56:59 /dev/md0

	2017-10-22 23:06:48 root@po ~
	# cryptsetup luksFormat /dev/md0

	WARNING!
	========
	This will overwrite data on /dev/md0 irrevocably.

	Are you sure? (Type uppercase yes): YES
	Enter passphrase:
	Verify passphrase:

	2017-10-22 23:08:09 root@po ~
	# vi /etc/crypttab

	    md0_crypt	/dev/md0					none		luks

	2017-10-22 23:09:19 root@po ~
	# cryptdisks_start md0_crypt
	[....] Starting crypto disk...[info] md0_crypt (starting)...
	Please unlock disk /dev/md0 (md0_crypt):  ********
	[ ok rypt (started)...done.


	2017-10-22 23:14:45 root@po ~
	# mkfs.ext4 -L mirror -v /dev/mapper/md0_crypt
	mke2fs 1.43.4 (31-Jan-2017)
	fs_types for mke2fs.conf resolution: 'ext4'
	Filesystem label=mirror
	OS type: Linux
	Block size=4096 (log=2)
	Fragment size=4096 (log=2)
	Stride=0 blocks, Stripe width=0 blocks
	91570176 inodes, 366251360 blocks
	18312568 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user
	First data block=0
	Maximum filesystem blocks=2514485248
	11178 block groups
	32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group
	8192 inodes per group
	Filesystem UUID: d9054ef2-a68d-40fd-a63c-0dbef2d27455
	Superblock backups stored on blocks:
		32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, 2654208,
		4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872, 71663616, 78675968,
		102400000, 214990848

	Allocating group tables: done
	Writing inode tables: done
	Creating journal (262144 blocks): done
	Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done

	2017-10-22 23:16:13 root@po ~
	# mkdir /mnt/md0

	2017-10-22 23:16:18 root@po ~
	# vi /etc/fstab

	    /dev/mapper/md0_crypt				/mnt/md0	ext4		defaults			0	2

	2017-10-22 23:17:51 root@po ~
	# mount /mnt/md0

	2017-10-22 23:18:12 root@po ~
	# mount | grep md0
	/dev/mapper/md0_crypt on /mnt/md0 type ext4 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)

	2017-10-22 23:22:49 root@po ~
	# rsync -a --progress --stats root@dipsy:/mnt/i3000d/ /mnt/md0/
	receiving incremental file list
	./
	approx/
	approx/debian/
	...


     Too long, too late, too noisy -- ^C out..


October 23, 2017

1.  md0 not assemling at boot.  STFW

	https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/210416/new-raid-array-will-not-auto-assemble-leads-to-boot-problems

     Run commands:

	dpkg-reconfigure mdadm
	update-initramfs -u

2.  Continue moving data:

	Number of files: 123,773 (reg: 109,013, dir: 14,688, link: 72)
	Number of created files: 95,179 (reg: 87,324, dir: 7,854, link: 1)
	Number of deleted files: 0
	Number of regular files transferred: 87,327
	Total file size: 807,206,168,902 bytes
	Total transferred file size: 775,906,834,780 bytes
	Literal data: 775,901,990,164 bytes
	Matched data: 4,844,616 bytes
	File list size: 2,599,972
	File list generation time: 0.001 seconds
	File list transfer time: 0.000 seconds
	Total bytes sent: 1,733,657
	Total bytes received: 776,098,128,065

	sent 1,733,657 bytes  received 776,098,128,065 bytes  43,856,121.93 
bytes/sec
	total size is 807,206,168,902  speedup is 1.04

	2017-10-23 14:58:48 root@po ~
	# df /mnt/md0
	Filesystem             1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
	/dev/mapper/md0_crypt 1440961520 788658044 579036820  58% /mnt/md0

	2017-10-23 14:59:03 root@po ~
	# cat /proc/mdstat
	Personalities : [raid1] [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid6] [raid5] 
[raid4] [raid10]
	md0 : active raid1 sdc[1] sdb[0]
	      1465007488 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
	      bitmap: 0/11 pages [0KB], 65536KB chunk

	unused devices: <none>


October 23, 2017

1.  Check for mdadm/kernel timeout mismatch:

	https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Timeout_Mismatch

	2017-10-23 19:49:29 root@po ~
	# smartctl -l scterc /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1
	smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local build)
	Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

	SCT Error Recovery Control:
		   Read: Disabled
		  Write: Disabled


	2017-10-23 19:50:03 root@po ~
	# smartctl -l scterc /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
	smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local build)
	Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

	SCT Error Recovery Control:
		   Read: Disabled
		  Write: Disabled


2.  Create Perl script to set SCT ERror Recovery Control read and write
     timeouts:

	2017-10-23 20:09:04 root@po ~
	# vi /usr/local/sbin/set-md0-scterc

	#!/usr/bin/env perl
	use strict;
	use warnings;
	my @drives = qw(
	    /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1
	    /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
	);
	for my $drive (@drives) {
	    my @line = (
		'/usr/sbin/smartctl',
		'-l',
		'scterc,70,70',
		$drive
	    );
	    print "+ @line\n";
	    system @line and warn $!;
	}

	2017-10-23 20:13:26 root@po ~
	# chmod +x /usr/local/sbin/set-md0-scterc

	2017-10-23 20:17:35 root@po ~
	# set-md0-scterc
	+ /usr/sbin/smartctl -l scterc,70,70 
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1
	smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local build)
	Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

	SCT Error Recovery Control set to:
		   Read:     70 (7.0 seconds)
		  Write:     70 (7.0 seconds)

	+ /usr/sbin/smartctl -l scterc,70,70 
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
	smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local build)
	Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

	SCT Error Recovery Control set to:
		   Read:     70 (7.0 seconds)
		  Write:     70 (7cp laalaa-var-local-cvs.meta-csv po:.
		  laalaa-var-local-cvs.meta-csv 
                              100% 2517KB  79.2MB/s   00:00
		
		  0 seconds)

3.  Create a crontab entry to run script at boot:

	2017-10-23 20:26:26 root@po ~
	# crontab -e -u root

	    @reboot /usr/local/sbin/set-md0-scterc

	no crontab for root - using an empty one
	crontab: installing new crontab

     Disable timeouts, verify, then do a warm reboot -- timeouts set
     for md0 drives.


David

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#263104

On 11/3/23 17:41, David Christensen wrote:
> On 11/3/23 09:27, gene heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE 
>> syndrome, meaning No D-----d Examples.
>>
>> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated 
>> as sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
>> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
>>
>> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of 
>> these to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then 
>> switch fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot?
>>
>> If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another lvm 
>> for amanda to use.
>>
>> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects 
>> causing my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or 
>> digiKam, even firefox wants to write a new file to my /home 
>> partition.  This delay does not lockup the whole shebang, already open 
>> files in other workspaces seem to run at normal speeds, but opening a 
>> simple gui file requester to get where to put the file, and possibly 
>> rename it, takes anywhere from 30 seconds minimum to around 5 minutes 
>> just to draw the requester on screen. And while you are waiting, 
>> wondering if you even pressed the mouse button, there is ZERO 
>> acknowledgement the button has been pushed.  The mouse can be moved 
>> normally, but until the requester is fully drawn on screen, no other 
>> button clicks are registered.
>>
>> This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but its 
>> been nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to 
>> help, suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 
>> 32G of main memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual 
>> programs start with the trace. I have used it in the past, decade or 
>> more back up the log, and while it was noisy then, this is unusable.
>>
>> Thanks for help with dmsetup.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> 
> 
> Not LVM, but FWIW I previously had my data on 2 @ 1.5 TB HDD md RAID1 
> LUKS ext4 on Debian 9:
> 
> October 22, 2017
> 
> 1.  Install StarTech HBA and Seagate 1.5 TB drives:
> 
> 2.  Set up mdadm RAID1:
> 
>      https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/RAID_setup
> 
>      2017-10-22 22:40:19 root@po ~
>      # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=2048
>      2048+0 records in
>      2048+0 records out
>      1048576 bytes (1.0 MB, 1.0 MiB) copied, 0.0689901 s, 15.2 MB/s
> 
>      2017-10-22 22:46:16 root@po ~
>      # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc count=2048
>      2048+0 records in
>      2048+0 records out
>      1048576 bytes (1.0 MB, 1.0 MiB) copied, 0.0501681 s, 20.9 MB/s
> 
>      2017-10-22 22:55:48 root@po ~
>      # mdadm --create --verbose /dev/md0 --level=mirror --raid-devices=2 
> /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1 
> /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
>      mdadm: Note: this array has metadata at the start and
>          may not be suitable as a boot device.  If you plan to
>          store '/boot' on this device please ensure that
>          your boot-loader understands md/v1.x metadata, or use
>          --metadata=0.90
>      mdadm: size set to 1465007488K
>      mdadm: automatically enabling write-intent bitmap on large array
>      Continue creating array? yes
>      mdadm: Defaulting to version 1.2 metadata
>      mdadm: array /dev/md0 started.
> 
>      2017-10-22 22:57:29 root@po ~
>      # mdadm --detail --scan
>      ARRAY /dev/md0 metadata=1.2 name=po:0 
> UUID=2fb7086d:ccedcd0c:b5c286e2:3eb96d45
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:00:37 root@po ~
>      # mdadm --detail --scan >> /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:06:45 root@po ~
>      # ll /dev/md0
>      brw-rw---- 1 root disk 9, 0 2017/10/22 22:56:59 /dev/md0
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:06:48 root@po ~
>      # cryptsetup luksFormat /dev/md0
> 
>      WARNING!
>      ========
>      This will overwrite data on /dev/md0 irrevocably.
> 
>      Are you sure? (Type uppercase yes): YES
>      Enter passphrase:
>      Verify passphrase:
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:08:09 root@po ~
>      # vi /etc/crypttab
> 
>          md0_crypt    /dev/md0                    none        luks
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:09:19 root@po ~
>      # cryptdisks_start md0_crypt
>      [....] Starting crypto disk...[info] md0_crypt (starting)...
>      Please unlock disk /dev/md0 (md0_crypt):  ********
>      [ ok rypt (started)...done.
> 
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:14:45 root@po ~
>      # mkfs.ext4 -L mirror -v /dev/mapper/md0_crypt
>      mke2fs 1.43.4 (31-Jan-2017)
>      fs_types for mke2fs.conf resolution: 'ext4'
>      Filesystem label=mirror
>      OS type: Linux
>      Block size=4096 (log=2)
>      Fragment size=4096 (log=2)
>      Stride=0 blocks, Stripe width=0 blocks
>      91570176 inodes, 366251360 blocks
>      18312568 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user
>      First data block=0
>      Maximum filesystem blocks=2514485248
>      11178 block groups
>      32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group
>      8192 inodes per group
>      Filesystem UUID: d9054ef2-a68d-40fd-a63c-0dbef2d27455
>      Superblock backups stored on blocks:
>          32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, 
> 2654208,
>          4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872, 71663616, 
> 78675968,
>          102400000, 214990848
> 
>      Allocating group tables: done
>      Writing inode tables: done
>      Creating journal (262144 blocks): done
>      Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:16:13 root@po ~
>      # mkdir /mnt/md0
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:16:18 root@po ~
>      # vi /etc/fstab
> 
>          /dev/mapper/md0_crypt                /mnt/md0    ext4        
> defaults            0    2
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:17:51 root@po ~
>      # mount /mnt/md0
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:18:12 root@po ~
>      # mount | grep md0
>      /dev/mapper/md0_crypt on /mnt/md0 type ext4 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
> 
>      2017-10-22 23:22:49 root@po ~
>      # rsync -a --progress --stats root@dipsy:/mnt/i3000d/ /mnt/md0/
>      receiving incremental file list
>      ./
>      approx/
>      approx/debian/
>      ...
> 
> 
>      Too long, too late, too noisy -- ^C out..
> 
> 
> October 23, 2017
> 
> 1.  md0 not assemling at boot.  STFW
> 
>      https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/210416/new-raid-array-will-not-auto-assemble-leads-to-boot-problems
> 
>      Run commands:
> 
>      dpkg-reconfigure mdadm
>      update-initramfs -u
> 
> 2.  Continue moving data:
> 
>      Number of files: 123,773 (reg: 109,013, dir: 14,688, link: 72)
>      Number of created files: 95,179 (reg: 87,324, dir: 7,854, link: 1)
>      Number of deleted files: 0
>      Number of regular files transferred: 87,327
>      Total file size: 807,206,168,902 bytes
>      Total transferred file size: 775,906,834,780 bytes
>      Literal data: 775,901,990,164 bytes
>      Matched data: 4,844,616 bytes
>      File list size: 2,599,972
>      File list generation time: 0.001 seconds
>      File list transfer time: 0.000 seconds
>      Total bytes sent: 1,733,657
>      Total bytes received: 776,098,128,065
> 
>      sent 1,733,657 bytes  received 776,098,128,065 bytes  43,856,121.93 
> bytes/sec
>      total size is 807,206,168,902  speedup is 1.04
> 
>      2017-10-23 14:58:48 root@po ~
>      # df /mnt/md0
>      Filesystem             1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
>      /dev/mapper/md0_crypt 1440961520 788658044 579036820  58% /mnt/md0
> 
>      2017-10-23 14:59:03 root@po ~
>      # cat /proc/mdstat
>      Personalities : [raid1] [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid6] 
> [raid5] [raid4] [raid10]
>      md0 : active raid1 sdc[1] sdb[0]
>            1465007488 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
>            bitmap: 0/11 pages [0KB], 65536KB chunk
> 
>      unused devices: <none>
> 
> 
> October 23, 2017
> 
> 1.  Check for mdadm/kernel timeout mismatch:
> 
>      https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Timeout_Mismatch
> 
>      2017-10-23 19:49:29 root@po ~
>      # smartctl -l scterc /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1
>      smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local 
> build)
>      Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, 
> www.smartmontools.org
> 
>      SCT Error Recovery Control:
>             Read: Disabled
>            Write: Disabled
> 
> 
>      2017-10-23 19:50:03 root@po ~
>      # smartctl -l scterc /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
>      smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local 
> build)
>      Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, 
> www.smartmontools.org
> 
>      SCT Error Recovery Control:
>             Read: Disabled
>            Write: Disabled
> 
> 
> 2.  Create Perl script to set SCT ERror Recovery Control read and write
>      timeouts:
> 
>      2017-10-23 20:09:04 root@po ~
>      # vi /usr/local/sbin/set-md0-scterc
> 
>      #!/usr/bin/env perl
>      use strict;
>      use warnings;
>      my @drives = qw(
>          /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1
>          /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
>      );
>      for my $drive (@drives) {
>          my @line = (
>          '/usr/sbin/smartctl',
>          '-l',
>          'scterc,70,70',
>          $drive
>          );
>          print "+ @line\n";
>          system @line and warn $!;
>      }
> 
>      2017-10-23 20:13:26 root@po ~
>      # chmod +x /usr/local/sbin/set-md0-scterc
> 
>      2017-10-23 20:17:35 root@po ~
>      # set-md0-scterc
>      + /usr/sbin/smartctl -l scterc,70,70 
> /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted1
>      smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local 
> build)
>      Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, 
> www.smartmontools.org
> 
>      SCT Error Recovery Control set to:
>             Read:     70 (7.0 seconds)
>            Write:     70 (7.0 seconds)
> 
>      + /usr/sbin/smartctl -l scterc,70,70 
> /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST31500341AS_redacted2
>      smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-4-amd64] (local 
> build)
>      Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, 
> www.smartmontools.org
> 
>      SCT Error Recovery Control set to:
>             Read:     70 (7.0 seconds)
>            Write:     70 (7cp laalaa-var-local-cvs.meta-csv po:.
>            laalaa-var-local-cvs.meta-csv                              
> 100% 2517KB  79.2MB/s   00:00
> 
>            0 seconds)
> 
> 3.  Create a crontab entry to run script at boot:
> 
>      2017-10-23 20:26:26 root@po ~
>      # crontab -e -u root
> 
>          @reboot /usr/local/sbin/set-md0-scterc
> 
>      no crontab for root - using an empty one
>      crontab: installing new crontab
> 
>      Disable timeouts, verify, then do a warm reboot -- timeouts set
>      for md0 drives.
> 
> 
> David
> 
Thank you David, printed for study, but looks like it still uses mdadm 
which I wanted to avoid in order to make the test isolation complete.
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#263106

On 11/3/23 16:55, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/3/23 17:41, David Christensen wrote:
>> On 11/3/23 09:27, gene heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings all;
>>> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE 
>>> syndrome, meaning No D-----d Examples.
>>>
>>> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated 
>>> as sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
>>> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
>>>
>>> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of 
>>> these to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, 
>>> then switch fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot?
>>>
>>> If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another 
>>> lvm for amanda to use.
>>>
>>> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects 
>>> causing my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or 
>>> digiKam, even firefox wants to write a new file to my /home 
>>> partition.  This delay does not lockup the whole shebang, already 
>>> open files in other workspaces seem to run at normal speeds, but 
>>> opening a simple gui file requester to get where to put the file, and 
>>> possibly rename it, takes anywhere from 30 seconds minimum to around 
>>> 5 minutes just to draw the requester on screen. And while you are 
>>> waiting, wondering if you even pressed the mouse button, there is 
>>> ZERO acknowledgement the button has been pushed.  The mouse can be 
>>> moved normally, but until the requester is fully drawn on screen, no 
>>> other button clicks are registered.
>>>
>>> This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but 
>>> its been nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried 
>>> to help, suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows 
>>> the 32G of main memory in this machine so I can't go back to the 
>>> actual programs start with the trace. I have used it in the past, 
>>> decade or more back up the log, and while it was noisy then, this is 
>>> unusable.
>>> <snip>
>>
>> Not LVM, but FWIW I previously had my data on 2 @ 1.5 TB HDD md RAID1 
>> LUKS ext4 on Debian 9:
>> <snip>
>
> Thank you David, printed for study, but looks like it still uses mdadm 
> which I wanted to avoid in order to make the test isolation complete.


Okay.  But, I very much doubt that Linux md is the problem.


Given the various posts, my best guess is that there is a software 
problem with Bookworm, the version of openscad on Bookworm, etc., and/or 
some misconfiguration of your system.  It might be worthwhile to put an 
ext4 file system onto one of the new 2 TB SSD's, mount it for testing, 
copy a file onto the 2 TB file system, configure your app(s) to put 
temporary files there, and test.  That would let you know if your /home 
RAID10 is a problem.


David

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#263099

On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 12:27:19PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE syndrome,
> meaning No D-----d Examples.
> 
> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as
> sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
> 

How big is your /home - is it bigger than 2T? 

Do you need both drives to provide redundant storage - or is it just 
a temporary storage place for /home while you get the rest of the RAID
devices sorted out?

If I were you, I wouldn't start from here :)

Don't mount them as individual drives.

pvcreate to initialise each physical drive as a drive reserved for lvm

pvcreate /dev/sdc1
pvcreate /dev/sdk1

vgcreate to create a logical volume

vgcreate HomeVolgroup /dev/sdc1 /dev/sdk1

Then use lvcreate to create the logical volume itself.

See also https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/LVM

Use lvm to do this: that's *exactly* what it's designed for - to allow you
to add volumes and extend disk sizes.

This is exactly how partman does it when you install. (In fact, you could do 
this quite well by rebooting to recovery and using that method to reformat 
the drives).

> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these to
> make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch fstab

See above: 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
[amacater@debian.org]

> to mount it as /home on a reboot?
> 
> If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another lvm for
> amanda to use.
> 
> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects causing
> my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or digiKam, even
> firefox wants to write a new file to my /home partition.  This delay does
> not lockup the whole shebang, already open files in other workspaces seem to
> run at normal speeds, but opening a simple gui file requester to get where
> to put the file, and possibly rename it, takes anywhere from 30 seconds
> minimum to around 5 minutes just to draw the requester on screen. And while
> you are waiting, wondering if you even pressed the mouse button, there is
> ZERO acknowledgement the button has been pushed.  The mouse can be moved
> normally, but until the requester is fully drawn on screen, no other button
> clicks are registered.
> 
> This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but its been
> nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to help,
> suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 32G of main
> memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual programs start with
> the trace. I have used it in the past, decade or more back up the log, and
> while it was noisy then, this is unusable.
> 
> Thanks for help with dmsetup.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> 

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#263105

On 11/3/23 18:14, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 12:27:19PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE syndrome,
>> meaning No D-----d Examples.
>>
>> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as
>> sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
>> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
>>
> 
> How big is your /home - is it bigger than 2T?
ATM its 20% of 1.8T
> 
> Do you need both drives to provide redundant storage - or is it just
> a temporary storage place for /home while you get the rest of the RAID
> devices sorted out?
> 
> If I were you, I wouldn't start from here :)
> 
> Don't mount them as individual drives.
Don't intend to in the final config.
> 
> pvcreate to initialise each physical drive as a drive reserved for lvm
> 
> pvcreate /dev/sdc1
> pvcreate /dev/sdk1
> 
> vgcreate to create a logical volume
> 
> vgcreate HomeVolgroup /dev/sdc1 /dev/sdk1
> 
> Then use lvcreate to create the logical volume itself.
> 
This looks a lot closer to what I had in mind, Andy, I'll unmount them 
when I have both eyes open at the same time tomorrow and give it a shot.

> See also https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/LVM
> 
> Use lvm to do this: that's *exactly* what it's designed for - to allow you
> to add volumes and extend disk sizes.
> 
> This is exactly how partman does it when you install. (In fact, you could do
> this quite well by rebooting to recovery and using that method to reformat
> the drives).
> 
>> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these to
>> make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch fstab
> 
> See above:
> 
> All the very best, as ever,
> 
> Andy
> [amacater@debian.org]
>
Thank you Andy.

>> to mount it as /home on a reboot?
>>
>> If it works, I'll kill the raid10, reformat it and make it another lvm for
>> amanda to use.
>>
>> I am determined to remove the raid10 /home from the list of suspects causing
>> my system lockups anytime a program such as OpenSCAD or digiKam, even
>> firefox wants to write a new file to my /home partition.  This delay does
>> not lockup the whole shebang, already open files in other workspaces seem to
>> run at normal speeds, but opening a simple gui file requester to get where
>> to put the file, and possibly rename it, takes anywhere from 30 seconds
>> minimum to around 5 minutes just to draw the requester on screen. And while
>> you are waiting, wondering if you even pressed the mouse button, there is
>> ZERO acknowledgement the button has been pushed.  The mouse can be moved
>> normally, but until the requester is fully drawn on screen, no other button
>> clicks are registered.
>>
>> This software raid10 worked perfectly for buster and bullseye, but its been
>> nothing but a headache on bookworm.  And only one has tried to help,
>> suggesting strace, but its output is so copious it overflows the 32G of main
>> memory in this machine so I can't go back to the actual programs start with
>> the trace. I have used it in the past, decade or more back up the log, and
>> while it was noisy then, this is unusable.
>>
>> Thanks for help with dmsetup.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
>> -- 
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>   - Louis D. Brandeis
>>
> 
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#263113

On 11/3/23 18:14, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 12:27:19PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>> As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE syndrome,
>> meaning No D-----d Examples.
>>
>> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as
>> sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2.
>> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2
>>
> 
> How big is your /home - is it bigger than 2T?
> 
> Do you need both drives to provide redundant storage - or is it just
> a temporary storage place for /home while you get the rest of the RAID
> devices sorted out?
> 
> If I were you, I wouldn't start from here :)
> 
> Don't mount them as individual drives.
> 
> pvcreate to initialise each physical drive as a drive reserved for lvm
> 
> pvcreate /dev/sdc1
> pvcreate /dev/sdk1
> 
> vgcreate to create a logical volume
> 
> vgcreate HomeVolgroup /dev/sdc1 /dev/sdk1
> 
> Then use lvcreate to create the logical volume itself.
I'v got to the above point but the first example that looked good 
created a 100% allocated, no free space "homevol"
So I used gparted to delete the partitions & reformat them to ext4 again,
pvcreated them again an vgcreateded it again, getting:
gene@coyote:~$ sudo vgs -v
   VG           Attr   Ext   #PV #LV #SN VSize  VFree  VG UUID 
                      VProfile
   HomeVolGroup wz--n- 4.00m   2   0   0 <3.73t <3.73t 
tdHtLW-95wJ-rLk5-fTiS-ILfV-kRD7-xqkClP
But now 2 puzzles:

1, there is zero explanation in the vgs man page telling me what this 
is. What does the < tell  me?, and I don't see a break between VG and 
UUID, word wrapped here by tbird, is that whole string of gibberish the 
VG's UUID?

2, the lvcreate man page doesn't appear to have a way to specify using 
the whole max capacity of the empty but formatted to ext4 pair of 
drives, the extremely copious example list doesn't seem to address that 
condition.

3a, what would the cmd to mount it to /mnt/lvm2 so rsync can copy /home 
to it look like?

3b, what would the line in fstab that mounts it look like?

> See also https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/LVM
Which also assumes an innate familiarity with all this that I don't have 
any experience with since this screwed me up and drove me out of the 
redhat camp 2 decades ago, I was tired of being the always sick and 
dying lab rat for redhat.

> Use lvm to do this: that's *exactly* what it's designed for - to allow you
> to add volumes and extend disk sizes.
> 
> This is exactly how partman does it when you install. (In fact, you could do
> this quite well by rebooting to recovery and using that method to reformat
> the drives).
> 
>> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these to
>> make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch fstab
> 
> See above:
> 
> All the very best, as ever,
> 
> Andy
> [amacater@debian.org]

Sorry to need so much hand holding Andy, but my only previous experience 
with logical volumes 20 years ago cost me dearly in terms of lost, 
irreplaceable data, like the only pictures of my first wife who had a 
stroke and died in '68 after 10 glorious years and 3 children.  Who have 
also now passed. A man doesn't normally outlast his git.

Thank you Andy

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#263119

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Nov 04, 2023 at 07:46:09AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> I'v got to the above point but the first example that looked good created a
> 100% allocated, no free space "homevol"
> So I used gparted to delete the partitions & reformat them to ext4 again,
> pvcreated them again an vgcreateded it again, getting:

Sorry, Gene -- I fear you have it backwards. The LVM stuff happens *below*
the file system: you first add physical volumes (PV) to a volume group
(think a "pool"). From that you "cut out" logical volumes (LV), which
are just bunches of blocks which show themselves to the OS as "block
devices" (/dev/mapper/foo, typically).

On top of that you can put a file system (as you can on any "bunch of blocks",
i.e. a block device or file).

Perhaps having a mental model the docs make more sense.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#263122

On 11/4/23 09:45, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 04, 2023 at 07:46:09AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> I'v got to the above point but the first example that looked good created a
>> 100% allocated, no free space "homevol"
>> So I used gparted to delete the partitions & reformat them to ext4 again,
>> pvcreated them again an vgcreateded it again, getting:
> 
> Sorry, Gene -- I fear you have it backwards. The LVM stuff happens *below*
> the file system: you first add physical volumes (PV) to a volume group
> (think a "pool"). From that you "cut out" logical volumes (LV), which
> are just bunches of blocks which show themselves to the OS as "block
> devices" (/dev/mapper/foo, typically).
> 
> On top of that you can put a file system (as you can on any "bunch of blocks",
> i.e. a block device or file).
> 
> Perhaps having a mental model the docs make more sense.
> 
Indeed it does clarify the mechanics. thank you. Now do I have to zero 
them first before I can then create (pvcreate) them, vgcreate 
HomeVolGroup (case is important) list of /dev/ices, or can I skip the 
zeroing? I've found I could temporarily unload the 6 port on the mobo 
controller down to 1, the boot disk containing everything but home, 
which would give me enough ports to build another raid10 if I can 
conjure up enough sata power plugs, which I have some spares of molex to 
sata splitters. Or does pvcreate automatically null the formatting. I 
have enough of the 2T gigastones to do that, but will that then fix my 
lack of instant raid access? That would leave me with a blank home I 
could then copy to the new raid10 which would give me a raid10 twice as 
big as now.

To complicate that, I also have a wd 2T NVMe that has never been plugged 
in but I'm understanding that is not a mod, but a whole new install, and 
another 22 installs disaster before it works this well, unless the 
installer now has some manners or I unplug all usb stuff except the 
keyboard/mouse buttons. that possibly reduces the sata count because it 
would become the boot drive. I can do the usb cleanup long enough to do 
the install now that I know about it. Probably should download and burn 
the latest netinstall image first though.

Perhaps my constant mewling about the broken installer has done some 
good? Like asking me yes/no do I want brltty and cura or whatever the 
hell it is that yells out every keypress from any speakers it can find 
and locking up the machine for the duration of the yell just because it 
surveyed the usb stuff and found a usb-serial adapter connected to a 
cm11a X10 controller so it ASSUMES I'm blind and installs that stuff w/o 
asking me. IDK. I don't want to get into that situation ever again 
because if you nuke brltty and cura so you can work in peace, the sob 
won't reboot, grub gets stuck looking for them and won't proceed with 
the boot, forcing yet another re-install. Finally, may even have been 
you, someone told me to unplug the usb stuff FIRST, rebooting problem 
solved.  Sorry, but this gets me started on a rant about a broken installer.

I have 5 of those 2T drives. And another narrow PCIe sata card with all 
16 ports populated. That may serve as the foundation storage so I can 
restart amanda and have some backups. A 2T raid10 for /home out of 4 of 
them would satisfy the storage needs for a while, maybe even for the 
rest of my time here. And an expandable linear lvm for amanda would be a 
treat. If its dependable. A maintenance PITA if not.

WDYT?

> Cheers

Thank you Tomas, take care & stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#263123

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Nov 04, 2023 at 01:20:08PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> Indeed it does clarify the mechanics. thank you. Now do I have to zero them
> first before I can then create (pvcreate) them,

Not necessarily. Unless, of course, there are sensitive data on them.

The process would go roughly:

  # put the necessary PV metadata on your raw devices
  pvcreate /dev/foo1 /dev/foo2 ...

  # make them to a volume group named my-volgroup
  vgcreate my-volgroup /dev/foo1 /dev/foo2 ...

  # cut out a logical volume from that, named my-logvol
  lvcreate --name my-logvol my-volgroup

  # put a file system on that logical volume
  mkfs.ext4 /dev/mapper/my-logvol

  # mount it
  mount /dev/mapper/my-logvol /home

Now convince your boot setup to add the logical vols
and mount them (this somehow involves fstab).

Perhaps this [1] page is enlightening (just disregard the
talk about vagrant(. I'm not yet quite sure you really
want this, but hey. Learning new tricks is what keeps one
happy.

In my case I actually have a volume group (spanning a single
physical device), but the use case is different: the physical
device is encrypted (laptops get lost) and I wanted to have
several partitions on it (and still move space from the one
to the other in a pinch).

Cheers & enjoy

[1] https://linuxhandbook.com/lvm-guide/
-- 
tomás

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#263125

tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 04, 2023 at 01:20:08PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Indeed it does clarify the mechanics. thank you. Now do I have to
> > zero them first before I can then create (pvcreate) them,  
> 
> Not necessarily. Unless, of course, there are sensitive data on them.
> 
> The process would go roughly:

I agree with what Tomas has said, but I would add a step before
creating the PVs.

    # partition your devices
    I usually put a small partition at the start of the disk and
    another small one at the end (these are protection against some
    kind of errors that can occur - you just leave them blank) and then
    create a single large partition using the rest of the space on the
    device for use by LVM.

    There doesn't seem much point in having more than one LVM partition
    on a device to me (as suggested below)?

>   # put the necessary PV metadata on your raw devices
>   pvcreate /dev/foo1 /dev/foo2 ...
> 
>   # make them to a volume group named my-volgroup
>   vgcreate my-volgroup /dev/foo1 /dev/foo2 ...
> 
>   # cut out a logical volume from that, named my-logvol
>   lvcreate --name my-logvol my-volgroup
> 
>   # put a file system on that logical volume
>   mkfs.ext4 /dev/mapper/my-logvol
> 
>   # mount it
>   mount /dev/mapper/my-logvol /home
> 
> Now convince your boot setup to add the logical vols
> and mount them (this somehow involves fstab).
> 
> Perhaps this [1] page is enlightening (just disregard the
> talk about vagrant(. I'm not yet quite sure you really
> want this, but hey. Learning new tricks is what keeps one
> happy.
> 
> In my case I actually have a volume group (spanning a single
> physical device), but the use case is different: the physical
> device is encrypted (laptops get lost) and I wanted to have
> several partitions on it (and still move space from the one
> to the other in a pinch).
> 
> Cheers & enjoy
> 
> [1] https://linuxhandbook.com/lvm-guide/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#263126

On 11/4/23 04:46, gene heskett wrote:

> ... my only previous experience with logical volumes 20 years ago
> cost me dearly in terms of lost, irreplaceable data, like the only
> pictures of my first wife ...


On 11/4/23 05:22, gene heskett wrote:

> On 11/4/23 05:39, Andy Smith wrote:
>> Maybe it is time to just buy a "black box" NAS device and make all 
>> this someone else's problem in return for money. It's not the way I
>> go, but you have had a lot of trouble getting your own mdraid to 
>> work.
> 
> Good advice maybe, Andy Smith, thank you, but that puts it all at the
> mercy of a $5 cable.  Not exactly my cup of tea.  Since I'm into 
> designing stuff in OpenSCAD, 3d printing the output, made into gcode
>  with Cura, and none of the common tools for making gcode to drive 
> the printers, or the printers own firmware, has learned how to roll 
> up the code into repetitive loops, instead generating step by step 
> printer instructions, so even the simplest part is half a gig of 
> g-code. So the data is growing like a cancer. Really complex parts 
> might be 50 gigs of g-code and takes the printer a week or more to 
> make.
> 
> G-code, properly written is like a .pdf, its the best compression we
>  have. I write it by hand for linuxcnc and have one 90 LOC file that
>  takes the machine 3 days to run. Remove the comments and it fits on 
> one side of one sheet of paper.


On 11/4/23 10:20, gene heskett wrote:

> I've found I could temporarily unload the 6 port on the mobo 
> controller down to 1, the boot disk containing everything but home, 
> which would give me enough ports to build another raid10 if I can 
> conjure up enough sata power plugs, which I have some spares of
> molex to sata splitters. Or does pvcreate automatically null the 
> formatting. I have enough of the 2T gigastones to do that, but will 
> that then fix my lack of instant raid access? That would leave me 
> with a blank home I could then copy to the new raid10 which would 
> give me a raid10 twice as big as now.
> 
> To complicate that, I also have a wd 2T NVMe that has never been 
> plugged in but I'm understanding that is not a mod, but a whole new 
> install, and another 22 installs disaster before it works this well, 
> unless the installer now has some manners or I unplug all usb stuff 
> except the keyboard/mouse buttons. that possibly reduces the sata 
> count because it would become the boot drive. I can do the usb 
> cleanup long enough to do the install now that I know about it. 
> Probably should download and burn the latest netinstall image first 
> though.
>> Perhaps my constant mewling about the broken installer has done 
>> some
> good? Like asking me yes/no do I want brltty and cura or whatever
> the hell it is that yells out every keypress from any speakers it
> can find and locking up the machine for the duration of the yell
> just because it surveyed the usb stuff and found a usb-serial
> adapter connected to a cm11a X10 controller so it ASSUMES I'm blind
> and installs that stuff w/o asking me. IDK. I don't want to get into
> that situation ever again because if you nuke brltty and cura so you
> can work in peace, the sob won't reboot, grub gets stuck looking for
> them and won't proceed with the boot, forcing yet another
> re-install. Finally, may even have been you, someone told me to
> unplug the usb stuff FIRST, rebooting problem solved.  Sorry, but
> this gets me started on a rant about a broken installer.
> 
> I have 5 of those 2T drives. And another narrow PCIe sata card with 
> all 16 ports populated. That may serve as the foundation storage so
> I can restart amanda and have some backups. A 2T raid10 for /home
> out of 4 of them would satisfy the storage needs for a while, maybe
> even for the rest of my time here. And an expandable linear lvm for
> amanda would be a treat. If its dependable. A maintenance PITA if
> not.
> 
> WDYT?


Trying to do too much with too little equipment is a recipe for 
disaster.  Been there, done that, lost data.


My computing life became more reliable and less stressful when I bought 
additional computers, additional drives, and mobile racks:

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/drw150satbk

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/hsb220sat25b

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/s25slotr


I suggest that you give the Asus a rest, buy or build another computer, 
install one small SSD (and mobile rack), install Debian, install one 
very large HDD (with mobile rack), install Amanda, and back up 
everything over the network.  Once that is working, buy another HDD 
(with mobile rack), either swap HDD's or duplicate the first HDD to the 
second HDD, store one HDD off-site, and repeat monthly.


In any case, burn your most valuable data to optical discs regularly.


David

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#263128

On 11/4/23 17:38, David Christensen wrote:
> On 11/4/23 04:46, gene heskett wrote:
> 
>> ... my only previous experience with logical volumes 20 years ago
>> cost me dearly in terms of lost, irreplaceable data, like the only
>> pictures of my first wife ...
> 
> 
> On 11/4/23 05:22, gene heskett wrote:
> 
>> On 11/4/23 05:39, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> Maybe it is time to just buy a "black box" NAS device and make all 
>>> this someone else's problem in return for money. It's not the way I
>>> go, but you have had a lot of trouble getting your own mdraid to work.
>>
>> Good advice maybe, Andy Smith, thank you, but that puts it all at the
>> mercy of a $5 cable.  Not exactly my cup of tea.  Since I'm into 
>> designing stuff in OpenSCAD, 3d printing the output, made into gcode
>>  with Cura, and none of the common tools for making gcode to drive the 
>> printers, or the printers own firmware, has learned how to roll up the 
>> code into repetitive loops, instead generating step by step printer 
>> instructions, so even the simplest part is half a gig of g-code. So 
>> the data is growing like a cancer. Really complex parts might be 50 
>> gigs of g-code and takes the printer a week or more to make.
>>
>> G-code, properly written is like a .pdf, its the best compression we
>>  have. I write it by hand for linuxcnc and have one 90 LOC file that
>>  takes the machine 3 days to run. Remove the comments and it fits on 
>> one side of one sheet of paper.
> 
> 
> On 11/4/23 10:20, gene heskett wrote:
> 
>> I've found I could temporarily unload the 6 port on the mobo 
>> controller down to 1, the boot disk containing everything but home, 
>> which would give me enough ports to build another raid10 if I can 
>> conjure up enough sata power plugs, which I have some spares of
>> molex to sata splitters. Or does pvcreate automatically null the 
>> formatting. I have enough of the 2T gigastones to do that, but will 
>> that then fix my lack of instant raid access? That would leave me with 
>> a blank home I could then copy to the new raid10 which would give me a 
>> raid10 twice as big as now.
>>
>> To complicate that, I also have a wd 2T NVMe that has never been 
>> plugged in but I'm understanding that is not a mod, but a whole new 
>> install, and another 22 installs disaster before it works this well, 
>> unless the installer now has some manners or I unplug all usb stuff 
>> except the keyboard/mouse buttons. that possibly reduces the sata 
>> count because it would become the boot drive. I can do the usb cleanup 
>> long enough to do the install now that I know about it. Probably 
>> should download and burn the latest netinstall image first though.
>>> Perhaps my constant mewling about the broken installer has done some
>> good? Like asking me yes/no do I want brltty and cura or whatever
>> the hell it is that yells out every keypress from any speakers it
>> can find and locking up the machine for the duration of the yell
>> just because it surveyed the usb stuff and found a usb-serial
>> adapter connected to a cm11a X10 controller so it ASSUMES I'm blind
>> and installs that stuff w/o asking me. IDK. I don't want to get into
>> that situation ever again because if you nuke brltty and cura so you
>> can work in peace, the sob won't reboot, grub gets stuck looking for
>> them and won't proceed with the boot, forcing yet another
>> re-install. Finally, may even have been you, someone told me to
>> unplug the usb stuff FIRST, rebooting problem solved.  Sorry, but
>> this gets me started on a rant about a broken installer.
>>
>> I have 5 of those 2T drives. And another narrow PCIe sata card with 
>> all 16 ports populated. That may serve as the foundation storage so
>> I can restart amanda and have some backups. A 2T raid10 for /home
>> out of 4 of them would satisfy the storage needs for a while, maybe
>> even for the rest of my time here. And an expandable linear lvm for
>> amanda would be a treat. If its dependable. A maintenance PITA if
>> not.
>>
>> WDYT?
> 
> 
> Trying to do too much with too little equipment is a recipe for 
> disaster.  Been there, done that, lost data.
> 
> 
> My computing life became more reliable and less stressful when I bought 
> additional computers, additional drives, and mobile racks:
> 
> https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/drw150satbk
> 
> https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/hsb220sat25b
> 
> https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/s25slotr
> 
> 
> I suggest that you give the Asus a rest, buy or build another computer, 
> install one small SSD (and mobile rack), install Debian, install one 
> very large HDD (with mobile rack), install Amanda, and back up 
> everything over the network.  Once that is working, buy another HDD 
> (with mobile rack), either swap HDD's or duplicate the first HDD to the 
> second HDD, store one HDD off-site, and repeat monthly.
> 
> 
> In any case, burn your most valuable data to optical discs regularly.

Not great advice unless you lock the resultant dvd away from all room 
lighting. I have 3 100 disk spindles of dvd's bought years ago, that are 
no longer recognized in any of the 4 or 5 dvd writers I have, but one 
box of rewritables about the same age, stored n a light tight cardboard 
box, will likely outlast me.  Some of them have been wiped and reused 
several times. Those on a spindle, with a clear dust cover letting the 
light into the edges of the stack of disks??  Flaky in 5 years, gone w/o 
a trace in 10, the drives don't see them at all. They do spin up for a 
minute trying, reseeking and re-reading but there is nothing readable to 
tell the drive what this disk needs in order to be written to, left in 
the disk starter track at the center of the disk.

Lesson learnt, do not use optical media for long term storage unless 
stored in tin boxes like AOL gave away billions of 20 years or more ago.

> David

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#263129

On 11/4/23 15:26, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/4/23 17:38, David Christensen wrote:

>> In any case, burn your most valuable data to optical discs regularly.
> 
> Not great advice unless you lock the resultant dvd away from all room 
> lighting. I have 3 100 disk spindles of dvd's bought years ago, that are 
> no longer recognized in any of the 4 or 5 dvd writers I have, but one 
> box of rewritables about the same age, stored n a light tight cardboard 
> box, will likely outlast me.  Some of them have been wiped and reused 
> several times. Those on a spindle, with a clear dust cover letting the 
> light into the edges of the stack of disks??  Flaky in 5 years, gone w/o 
> a trace in 10, the drives don't see them at all. They do spin up for a 
> minute trying, reseeking and re-reading but there is nothing readable to 
> tell the drive what this disk needs in order to be written to, left in 
> the disk starter track at the center of the disk.
> 
> Lesson learnt, do not use optical media for long term storage unless 
> stored in tin boxes like AOL gave away billions of 20 years or more ago.


I have been burning archive DVD-R discs for ~14 years and storing them 
in a drawer (e.g. darkness).  I checked the oldest just now and it reads 
okay.


I have heard of CD discs disintegrating if the lacquer is scratched:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot


I have heard that RW media has a shorter lifespan than R media.


Does anyone have experience with M-Disc media?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC


David

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#263130

On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 16:39:03 -0700
  David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> wrote:


> Does anyone have experience with M-Disc media?
No. I trust a little bit more in RAID

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#263131

On 11/4/23 19:39, David Christensen wrote:
> On 11/4/23 15:26, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 11/4/23 17:38, David Christensen wrote:
> 
>>> In any case, burn your most valuable data to optical discs regularly.
>>
>> Not great advice unless you lock the resultant dvd away from all room 
>> lighting. I have 3 100 disk spindles of dvd's bought years ago, that 
>> are no longer recognized in any of the 4 or 5 dvd writers I have, but 
>> one box of rewritables about the same age, stored n a light tight 
>> cardboard box, will likely outlast me.  Some of them have been wiped 
>> and reused several times. Those on a spindle, with a clear dust cover 
>> letting the light into the edges of the stack of disks??  Flaky in 5 
>> years, gone w/o a trace in 10, the drives don't see them at all. They 
>> do spin up for a minute trying, reseeking and re-reading but there is 
>> nothing readable to tell the drive what this disk needs in order to be 
>> written to, left in the disk starter track at the center of the disk.
>>
>> Lesson learnt, do not use optical media for long term storage unless 
>> stored in tin boxes like AOL gave away billions of 20 years or more ago.
> 
> 
> I have been burning archive DVD-R discs for ~14 years and storing them 
> in a drawer (e.g. darkness).  I checked the oldest just now and it reads 
> okay.
> 
> 
> I have heard of CD discs disintegrating if the lacquer is scratched:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot
> 
> 
> I have heard that RW media has a shorter lifespan than R media.
> 
FWIW the rw's I have and that continue to work, are Sony DVD+RW, well 
over 5 years old now. I understand there is a DVD-RW but I've no 
experience with them.  Today my objection is the size. In comparison to 
a system driving 3d printers with gcode from Cura-5.4 that is not rolled 
up into subroutine loops, I have some of the more complex and large 
parts part files that will not fit on a dvd. So it simply impractical 
for me to back up to a measly 4.7Gig dvd.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with M-Disc media?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC
> 
> 
> David
> 
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#263132

On 11/4/23 17:55, gene heskett wrote:

> FWIW the rw's I have and that continue to work, are Sony DVD+RW, well 
> over 5 years old now. I understand there is a DVD-RW but I've no 
> experience with them.  Today my objection is the size. In comparison to 
> a system driving 3d printers with gcode from Cura-5.4 that is not rolled 
> up into subroutine loops, I have some of the more complex and large 
> parts part files that will not fit on a dvd. So it simply impractical 
> for me to back up to a measly 4.7Gig dvd.


That's why they invented Blu-ray:

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray

     25 GB (single-layer)
     50, 66 GB (dual-layer)
     100, 128 GB (BDXL)
     (Up to four layers are possible in a standard form BD)


David

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#263133

On 11/4/23 23:15, David Christensen wrote:
> On 11/4/23 17:55, gene heskett wrote:
> 
>> FWIW the rw's I have and that continue to work, are Sony DVD+RW, well 
>> over 5 years old now. I understand there is a DVD-RW but I've no 
>> experience with them.  Today my objection is the size. In comparison 
>> to a system driving 3d printers with gcode from Cura-5.4 that is not 
>> rolled up into subroutine loops, I have some of the more complex and 
>> large parts part files that will not fit on a dvd. So it simply 
>> impractical for me to back up to a measly 4.7Gig dvd.
> 
> 
> That's why they invented Blu-ray:
> 
>      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray
> 
>      25 GB (single-layer)
>      50, 66 GB (dual-layer)
>      100, 128 GB (BDXL)
>      (Up to four layers are possible in a standard form BD)
> 
> 
> David
> 
Shudder. Anything mechanical can be destroyed by a smoke particle 100x 
to small to be seen with a good eye. I am a CET & Electronics in general 
I understand the physics of, and in electronics the only thing moving is 
a few electrons here or there. As long as the voltage does not force an 
electron thru the oxide layer that is the capacitors insulation, forming 
a leakage path that avalanches thru the oxide film and essentially 
destroys the device, there is no physical reason that it will not 
continue to do its jobs for hundreds or thousands of years. It will be 
external environmental effects that will eventually reach the chip and 
byproducts of the humidity let in by the breach of the package sealing 
that finally destroys it.

The size of a bit that is detectable on a disk is determined by the 
wavelegth of the light reading that bit, cd's were designed with the IR 
lasers of the day, which emmit light in the 1100 nanometer range. Far 
infrared IOW. DVD's were made possible with a shorter visible light 
laser, then blue rays got that down to abut 400 nanometers. The next gen 
of those will have a uv laser  but we'll have to invent it first. But 
part of that problem is that decent optical glass for the lenses does 
not pass UV to a usable amount. Plastic lets it blast on thru but can we 
make plastic lenses that precisely for the price bleeding edge users 
will pay? IDK.
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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