Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > linux.debian.user > #262995 > unrolled thread

How to compare contents of two folders against third one?

Started by"Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com>
First post2023-11-01 16:10 +0100
Last post2023-11-07 21:00 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 81 — 26 participants

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user


Contents

  How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-01 16:10 +0100
    Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-01 16:10 +0100
      Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 07:50 +0100
        Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2023-11-02 09:00 +0100
    Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-01 19:00 +0100
      How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-02 08:20 +0100
        Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2023-11-02 08:50 +0100
        Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 09:00 +0100
          Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2023-11-02 09:50 +0100
            Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 10:00 +0100
              Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to   compare contents of two folders against third one?) yxcv@vienna.at - 2023-11-02 10:10 +0100
          Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-02 15:20 +0100
            Re: How to compare one folder to one directory <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 15:30 +0100
              Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-02 16:20 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-02 22:00 +0100
                  Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 22:10 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-03 03:50 +0100
                  Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-11-03 04:20 +0100
                    On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 06:40 +0100
                      Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 08:50 +0100
                        Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-03 09:00 +0100
                          Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 03:50 +0100
                            Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 06:40 +0100
                              Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2023-11-07 12:00 +0100
                        Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-03 16:10 +0100
                          Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 16:20 +0100
                            Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-03 17:30 +0100
                            Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-06 17:00 +0100
                              Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-06 17:10 +0100
                                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-11-06 18:20 +0100
                          Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-03 16:40 +0100
                            Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to  compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 18:40 +0100
                              Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to  compare...] John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 03:40 +0100
                                Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to  compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 06:40 +0100
                          Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 18:30 +0100
                        Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-11-03 18:30 +0100
                          Re: On folders vs. directories and history "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-03 19:20 +0100
                    Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Mihamina RKTMB <mihamina@atscom.io> - 2023-11-03 09:10 +0100
                    Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 11:40 +0100
                      Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 11:50 +0100
                    Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 04:20 +0100
        Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-02 10:20 +0100
        Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 01:40 +0100
          On weeds and bikesheds [was: How to compare one folder to one  directory] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 06:30 +0100
      Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 08:40 +0100
        Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 08:50 +0100
        Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 09:10 +0100
          Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 10:50 +0100
            Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 11:00 +0100
            Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 11:10 +0100
            Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-11-02 16:20 +0100
      All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of  two folders against third one?) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 17:00 +0100
        Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents  of two folders against third one?) tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-03 18:50 +0100
        Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents  of two folders against third one?) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 19:20 +0100
        Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents  of two folders against third one?) Paul Duncan <paul.d@soi-team.org> - 2023-11-07 12:00 +0100
          Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 15:30 +0100
            Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 15:40 +0100
              Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 17:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 17:10 +0100
                  Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-07 17:50 +0100
                  Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-11-07 20:00 +0100
                    Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 20:30 +0100
                    Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-07 19:00 +0100
                  Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 20:40 +0100
                    Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
                      Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-07 22:30 +0100
                        Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-07 22:30 +0100
                          Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 23:00 +0100
                          Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 23:50 +0100
                      Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 23:00 +0100
                    Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
                      Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 21:00 +0100
                        Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-07 21:40 +0100
                          Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 22:00 +0100
                            Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 22:10 +0100
                            Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-08 01:00 +0100
                            Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-08 13:40 +0100
                              Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-08 14:10 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-07 21:30 +0100
            Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-07 21:00 +0100

Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next page →


#263201 — Re: How to compare one folder to one directory

FromJohn Hasler <john@sugarbit.com>
Date2023-11-07 04:20 +0100
SubjectRe: How to compare one folder to one directory
Message-ID<HxkNb-3FZH-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263066
Greg writes:
> The use of "directory" in the Unix sense predates graphical UI
> development.
> ...
> ...

The whole point of the desktop metaphor was to hide all of that from the
user.  I'm not defending it: just describing a bit of its history.
-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263039 — Re: How to compare one folder to one directory

From"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date2023-11-02 10:20 +0100
SubjectRe: How to compare one folder to one directory
Message-ID<HvC1P-2yln-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263025
Hi,

tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies.

Loris Bennett wrote:
> In German there are also two words: 'Ordner' (folder/binder) and
> 'Verzeichnis' (directory/catalogue).  People also use both more or less
> interchangeably.

But if you say "Datendatei" it will kill two Wolpertingers.

("Datei" i.e. "a thing with data" = german for "file".
 "Datendatei" = "data file". "Wolpertinger" = "jackalope")


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263062 — Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)

FromJeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
Date2023-11-03 01:40 +0100
SubjectRe: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)
Message-ID<HvQo9-2Hr2-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263025
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 3:18 AM Loris Bennett <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> <tomas@tuxteam.de> writes:
>
> > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies.
>
> What's the objection to 'folder'?  I don't use it myself, but it seems
> fairly reasonable to me.  Many desktop environments use an old hanging
> folder icon in their file browsers.
>
> In German there are also two words: 'Ordner' (folder/binder) and
> 'Verzeichnis' (directory/catalogue).  People also use both more or less
> interchangeably.

This discussion went into the weeds rather quickly.

Next they will tell you what color to paint your shed,
<https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding>.

Jeff

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263067 — On weeds and bikesheds [was: How to compare one folder to one directory]

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2023-11-03 06:30 +0100
SubjectOn weeds and bikesheds [was: How to compare one folder to one directory]
Message-ID<HvUUN-2KEi-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263062

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 08:37:22PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

[...]

> This discussion went into the weeds rather quickly.

If you don't like the weeds... stay out of them :)

For the rest, the discussion is an interesting excursion into
computer history and culture.

> Next they will tell you what color to paint your shed,
> <https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding>.

It gotta be green!

Cheers
-- 
t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263026

From"Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com>
Date2023-11-02 08:40 +0100
Message-ID<HvAt3-2xgp-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263005

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 01.11.2023 22:55, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies.
>
If I say tater instead of potato would it also make you sad?
Sorry to break it to you, but unicorns were extinct a long time ago, 
along with BBS', modems, MSDOS, ISA-VLB slots, jumpers and through-hole ICs.
Only BGAs, UEFI, liquid metal, Bluetooth and other planned obsolescence 
garbage remains.

> You mean: the union of dest-dir-1 and dest-dir-2 should equal your
> source-dir?
>
>    Try rsync -a source-dir/ dest-dir-2/ --compare-dest=dest-dir-1/
>
> This one will even dutifully copy those files from source-dir which
> can't be found either in dest-dir-1 or in dest-dir-2.
>
> If you only want to /see/ what would be copied (always a good idea
> when trying untested advice from random folks on the internets :)
> there's the option --dry-run. Perhaps add the option -v.
>
> Rsync is magic.
>
> Cheers
Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names 
properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv 
parameters.
Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted 
filesystems and who knows what else.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263028

FromNicolas George <george@nsup.org>
Date2023-11-02 08:50 +0100
Message-ID<HvACJ-2xjU-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263026
Alexander V. Makartsev (12023-11-02):
> Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names
> properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv
> parameters.
> Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted
> filesystems and who knows what else.

More probably because you tried to use it on a non-Unix filesystem (or
even non-Unix system).

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263034

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2023-11-02 09:10 +0100
Message-ID<HvAW5-2xFF-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263026

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 12:36:23PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> On 01.11.2023 22:55, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies.
> > 
> If I say tater instead of potato would it also make you sad?
> Sorry to break it to you, but unicorns were extinct a long time ago, along
> with BBS', modems, MSDOS, ISA-VLB slots, jumpers and through-hole ICs.
> Only BGAs, UEFI, liquid metal, Bluetooth and other planned obsolescence
> garbage remains.
> 
> > You mean: the union of dest-dir-1 and dest-dir-2 should equal your
> > source-dir?
> > 
> >    Try rsync -a source-dir/ dest-dir-2/ --compare-dest=dest-dir-1/
> > 
> > This one will even dutifully copy those files from source-dir which
> > can't be found either in dest-dir-1 or in dest-dir-2.
> > 
> > If you only want to /see/ what would be copied (always a good idea
> > when trying untested advice from random folks on the internets :)
> > there's the option --dry-run. Perhaps add the option -v.
> > 
> > Rsync is magic.
> > 
> > Cheers
> Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names
> properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv
> parameters.
> Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted
> filesystems and who knows what else.

Difficult to say without knowing more details. Are those "directories"
actually on different file systems?

For vfat, specifically, there is a codepage argument for mount.

Cheers
-- 
t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263040

From"Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com>
Date2023-11-02 10:50 +0100
Message-ID<HvCuR-2yyX-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263034

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 02.11.2023 12:59, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>> Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names
>> properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv
>> parameters.
>> Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted
>> filesystems and who knows what else.
> Difficult to say without knowing more details. Are those "directories"
> actually on different file systems?
>
> For vfat, specifically, there is a codepage argument for mount.
>
> Cheers
I've tried to mount filesystems (all NTFS) with different locale 
parameters, still ended up with either garbled filenames or charset 
conversion and 'path too long' complains from rsync.
Since I've copied files manually with Thunar, it didn't complained about 
anything and all copied files were consistent, even those rsync 
complained about.
It could be also a limitation or bug of overlayfs since it doesn't have 
locale/iocharset/codepage parameters for mount.
Anyway, I don't have access to source and two destination disks anymore 
to investigate this further.
Data recovery was successful and case closed.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263041

FromNicolas George <george@nsup.org>
Date2023-11-02 11:00 +0100
Message-ID<HvCEy-2yCJ-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263040
Alexander V. Makartsev (12023-11-02):
> It could be also a limitation or bug of overlayfs since it doesn't have
> locale/iocharset/codepage parameters for mount.

No, it is not: Unix file names are made of octets, not characters.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263042

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2023-11-02 11:10 +0100
Message-ID<HvCOe-2yWa-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263040

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 02:42:41PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

[encodings, file systems]

> I've tried to mount filesystems (all NTFS) with different locale parameters,
> still ended up with either garbled filenames or charset conversion and 'path
> too long' complains from rsync.

I see.

> Since I've copied files manually with Thunar, it didn't complained about
> anything and all copied files were consistent, even those rsync complained
> about.
> It could be also a limitation or bug of overlayfs since it doesn't have
> locale/iocharset/codepage parameters for mount.

Part of the difficulty stems from a fundamental mismatch: NTFS tightly
controls its file name encoding (it is, IIRC, some kind of UTF-16, but
I'm not sure anymore). Linux doesn't care -- file names are sequences
of bytes, to be interpreted by the application du jour.

Both approaches have disadvantages. Mixing both has even more ;-)

> Anyway, I don't have access to source and two destination disks anymore to
> investigate this further.
> Data recovery was successful and case closed.

Yay for that :-)

Cheers
-- 
t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263047

FromMichel Verdier <mv524@free.fr>
Date2023-11-02 16:20 +0100
Message-ID<HvHEd-2CdS-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263040
On 2023-11-02, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

> I've tried to mount filesystems (all NTFS) with different locale parameters,
> still ended up with either garbled filenames or charset conversion and 'path
> too long' complains from rsync.

I use rsync on ntfs without locale parameter. This is my fstab entry :

UUID=DA1AAA191AA9F325 /var/windows ntfs3 user,defaults,rw,noatime,noauto,noexec,lazytime 0 2

Perhaps you don't use v3 ? Could you mount your filesystem and provide
result from "mount" command ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263080 — All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)

FromJeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
Date2023-11-03 17:00 +0100
SubjectAll the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)
Message-ID<Hw4Kt-2RKS-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263005
On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Nov 01, 2023 at 08:01:19PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > Hello everyone.
> >
> > I have a "/source-folder/" which contains very large tree of folders and
> > files.
> > I've manually copied a set of folders and files from it to a
> > "/destination-folder-one/" and
> > copied another set of folders and files to a "/destination-folder-two/".
> >
> > Now, is there an effective way to compare combined contents of two folders
> > "/destination-folder-one/" and
> > "/destination-folder-two/" against a "/source-folder/" to show if there is
> > anything that was left out?
>
> I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies.

If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you
all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file.
The only safe harbor for the unicorns are Plan9 and now Inferno. Plan9
and Inferno carry on the original Unix philosophy of "everything is a
file."

What you call a directory does not matter because the unicorns were
nearly extinct already.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs> and
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system)>.

Jeff

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263091 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)

Fromtomas@tuxteam.de
Date2023-11-03 18:50 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)
Message-ID<Hw6sV-2T4F-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263080

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 11:57:59AM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

[...]

> > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies.
> 
> If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you
> all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file.
> The only safe harbor for the unicorns are Plan9 and now Inferno. Plan9
> and Inferno carry on the original Unix philosophy of "everything is a
> file."

:-)

To be fair, though, these days, with ext4, you can make a directory with
40000 entries in it and you won't notice.

But yes, Plan9 is cool. Closing a GUI window by rm'ing a file has some...
class :-)

Cheers
-- 
t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263093 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)

FromNicolas George <george@nsup.org>
Date2023-11-03 19:20 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)
Message-ID<Hw6VX-2Twp-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263080

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Jeffrey Walton (12023-11-03):
> If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you
> all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file.

They might tell you that, but that is wrong nonetheless: they fumbled
the “everything is a file” from the start.

In original Unix, processes are not files.

In original Unix, memory areas in the address space of a process are not
files.

In original Unix, time is not a file.

In original Unix, signals are not files.

In fact, Linux bioengineered some of these Unicorn into existence with
memfd, timerfd, signalfd.

Nowadays, the worst offence in this are the thread synchronization
primitives. It is a tragedy that mutexes and conditions are not
compatible with the file descriptors API at all. If they were, then
pthreads could have made some concurrent I/O code simpler; as it is,
pthreads are useful for performances, but when it comes to I/O, they
them harder.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263205 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)

FromPaul Duncan <paul.d@soi-team.org>
Date2023-11-07 12:00 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?)
Message-ID<HxrYl-3L8z-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263080

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Okay, I'm gonna throw a bit more fuel onto this fire :-)

On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 15:58, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you
> all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file.
> The only safe harbor for the unicorns are Plan9 and now Inferno. Plan9
> and Inferno carry on the original Unix philosophy of "everything is a
> file."
>
> What you call a directory does not matter because the unicorns were
> nearly extinct already.
>

Yes, but we (on Linux and I *think* on good old System V and BSD 4.3) have
mkfile and mkdir - so surely that means that everything (stored on a bit of
rotating rust) is *not* a file :-)

Cheers!
-- 


*Paul Duncan*

Lead Marine Technician, RV Falkor(too)

SCHMIDT OCEAN INSTITUTE

mobile +1 650 387 4151

VOIP +1 954 672 4943

www.schmidtocean.org

Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Google+

*This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged*

*information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
prohibited. If you have received it in*

*error, please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message and
any attachments. Thank you.*

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263206 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux

FromJohn Hasler <john@sugarbit.com>
Date2023-11-07 15:30 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux
Message-ID<Hxvfz-3NWI-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263205
Paul Duncan writes:
> Yes, but we (on Linux and I *think* on good old System V and BSD 4.3)
> have mkfile and mkdir - so surely that means that everything (stored
> on a bit of rotating rust) is *not* a file :-)

On System III directories were files.
-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263207 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux

FromNicolas George <george@nsup.org>
Date2023-11-07 15:40 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux
Message-ID<Hxvpf-3NZV-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263206
John Hasler (12023-11-07):
> On System III directories were files.

On Linux, directories are files.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263208 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux

FromJohn Hasler <john@sugarbit.com>
Date2023-11-07 17:00 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux
Message-ID<HxwEF-3OFI-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263207
I wrote:
> On System III directories were files.

Nicolas George writes:
> On Linux, directories are files.

Try to edit one.

On System III the same system calls operated on files and directories.
-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263209 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux

FromNicolas George <george@nsup.org>
Date2023-11-07 17:10 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux
Message-ID<HxwOl-3OYe-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263208
John Hasler (12023-11-07):
> Try to edit one.

Try to edit /dev/zero.

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#263212 — Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux

FromPocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com>
Date2023-11-07 17:50 +0100
SubjectRe: All the unicorns are dead on Linux
Message-ID<Hxxr3-3PaE-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#263209
On 11/7/23 11:03, Nicolas George wrote:
> John Hasler (12023-11-07):
>> Try to edit one.
> Try to edit /dev/zero.
>
I once edited /dev/null ;}


-- 
It's not easy to be me

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user


csiph-web