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Groups > linux.debian.user > #262995 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2023-11-01 16:10 +0100 |
| Last post | 2023-11-07 21:00 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 81 — 26 participants |
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How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-01 16:10 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-01 16:10 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 07:50 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2023-11-02 09:00 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-01 19:00 +0100
How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-02 08:20 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2023-11-02 08:50 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 09:00 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2023-11-02 09:50 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 10:00 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) yxcv@vienna.at - 2023-11-02 10:10 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-02 15:20 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 15:30 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-02 16:20 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-02 22:00 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 22:10 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-03 03:50 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-11-03 04:20 +0100
On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 06:40 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 08:50 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-03 09:00 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 03:50 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 06:40 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2023-11-07 12:00 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-03 16:10 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 16:20 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-03 17:30 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-06 17:00 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-06 17:10 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-11-06 18:20 +0100
Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-03 16:40 +0100
Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 18:40 +0100
Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 03:40 +0100
Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 06:40 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 18:30 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-11-03 18:30 +0100
Re: On folders vs. directories and history "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-03 19:20 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Mihamina RKTMB <mihamina@atscom.io> - 2023-11-03 09:10 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 11:40 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 11:50 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 04:20 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-02 10:20 +0100
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 01:40 +0100
On weeds and bikesheds [was: How to compare one folder to one directory] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 06:30 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 08:40 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 08:50 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 09:10 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 10:50 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 11:00 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 11:10 +0100
Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-11-02 16:20 +0100
All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 17:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-03 18:50 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 19:20 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) Paul Duncan <paul.d@soi-team.org> - 2023-11-07 12:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 15:30 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 15:40 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 17:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 17:10 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-07 17:50 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-11-07 20:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 20:30 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-07 19:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 20:40 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-07 22:30 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-07 22:30 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 23:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 23:50 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 23:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 21:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-07 21:40 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 22:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 22:10 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-08 01:00 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-08 13:40 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-08 14:10 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-07 21:30 +0100
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-07 21:00 +0100
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| From | John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-07 04:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How to compare one folder to one directory |
| Message-ID | <HxkNb-3FZH-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263066 |
Greg writes: > The use of "directory" in the Unix sense predates graphical UI > development. > ... > ... The whole point of the desktop metaphor was to hide all of that from the user. I'm not defending it: just describing a bit of its history. -- John Hasler john@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 10:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How to compare one folder to one directory |
| Message-ID | <HvC1P-2yln-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263025 |
Hi,
tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies.
Loris Bennett wrote:
> In German there are also two words: 'Ordner' (folder/binder) and
> 'Verzeichnis' (directory/catalogue). People also use both more or less
> interchangeably.
But if you say "Datendatei" it will kill two Wolpertingers.
("Datei" i.e. "a thing with data" = german for "file".
"Datendatei" = "data file". "Wolpertinger" = "jackalope")
Have a nice day :)
Thomas
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| From | Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-03 01:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) |
| Message-ID | <HvQo9-2Hr2-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263025 |
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 3:18 AM Loris Bennett <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> wrote: > > <tomas@tuxteam.de> writes: > > > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies. > > What's the objection to 'folder'? I don't use it myself, but it seems > fairly reasonable to me. Many desktop environments use an old hanging > folder icon in their file browsers. > > In German there are also two words: 'Ordner' (folder/binder) and > 'Verzeichnis' (directory/catalogue). People also use both more or less > interchangeably. This discussion went into the weeds rather quickly. Next they will tell you what color to paint your shed, <https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding>. Jeff
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-03 06:30 +0100 |
| Subject | On weeds and bikesheds [was: How to compare one folder to one directory] |
| Message-ID | <HvUUN-2KEi-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263062 |
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On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 08:37:22PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: [...] > This discussion went into the weeds rather quickly. If you don't like the weeds... stay out of them :) For the rest, the discussion is an interesting excursion into computer history and culture. > Next they will tell you what color to paint your shed, > <https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding>. It gotta be green! Cheers -- t
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| From | "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 08:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HvAt3-2xgp-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263005 |
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On 01.11.2023 22:55, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies. > If I say tater instead of potato would it also make you sad? Sorry to break it to you, but unicorns were extinct a long time ago, along with BBS', modems, MSDOS, ISA-VLB slots, jumpers and through-hole ICs. Only BGAs, UEFI, liquid metal, Bluetooth and other planned obsolescence garbage remains. > You mean: the union of dest-dir-1 and dest-dir-2 should equal your > source-dir? > > Try rsync -a source-dir/ dest-dir-2/ --compare-dest=dest-dir-1/ > > This one will even dutifully copy those files from source-dir which > can't be found either in dest-dir-1 or in dest-dir-2. > > If you only want to /see/ what would be copied (always a good idea > when trying untested advice from random folks on the internets :) > there's the option --dry-run. Perhaps add the option -v. > > Rsync is magic. > > Cheers Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv parameters. Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted filesystems and who knows what else. -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 08:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HvACJ-2xjU-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263026 |
Alexander V. Makartsev (12023-11-02): > Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names > properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv > parameters. > Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted > filesystems and who knows what else. More probably because you tried to use it on a non-Unix filesystem (or even non-Unix system). Regards, -- Nicolas George
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 09:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HvAW5-2xFF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263026 |
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On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 12:36:23PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: > On 01.11.2023 22:55, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies. > > > If I say tater instead of potato would it also make you sad? > Sorry to break it to you, but unicorns were extinct a long time ago, along > with BBS', modems, MSDOS, ISA-VLB slots, jumpers and through-hole ICs. > Only BGAs, UEFI, liquid metal, Bluetooth and other planned obsolescence > garbage remains. > > > You mean: the union of dest-dir-1 and dest-dir-2 should equal your > > source-dir? > > > > Try rsync -a source-dir/ dest-dir-2/ --compare-dest=dest-dir-1/ > > > > This one will even dutifully copy those files from source-dir which > > can't be found either in dest-dir-1 or in dest-dir-2. > > > > If you only want to /see/ what would be copied (always a good idea > > when trying untested advice from random folks on the internets :) > > there's the option --dry-run. Perhaps add the option -v. > > > > Rsync is magic. > > > > Cheers > Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names > properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv > parameters. > Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted > filesystems and who knows what else. Difficult to say without knowing more details. Are those "directories" actually on different file systems? For vfat, specifically, there is a codepage argument for mount. Cheers -- t
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| From | "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 10:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HvCuR-2yyX-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263034 |
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On 02.11.2023 12:59, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >> Rsync wasn't helpful in my case. It refused to recognize file names >> properly, complaining about charset encoding, not even with --iconv >> parameters. >> Probably because of locale differences between my system and mounted >> filesystems and who knows what else. > Difficult to say without knowing more details. Are those "directories" > actually on different file systems? > > For vfat, specifically, there is a codepage argument for mount. > > Cheers I've tried to mount filesystems (all NTFS) with different locale parameters, still ended up with either garbled filenames or charset conversion and 'path too long' complains from rsync. Since I've copied files manually with Thunar, it didn't complained about anything and all copied files were consistent, even those rsync complained about. It could be also a limitation or bug of overlayfs since it doesn't have locale/iocharset/codepage parameters for mount. Anyway, I don't have access to source and two destination disks anymore to investigate this further. Data recovery was successful and case closed. -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 11:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HvCEy-2yCJ-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263040 |
Alexander V. Makartsev (12023-11-02): > It could be also a limitation or bug of overlayfs since it doesn't have > locale/iocharset/codepage parameters for mount. No, it is not: Unix file names are made of octets, not characters. Regards, -- Nicolas George
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 11:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HvCOe-2yWa-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263040 |
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On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 02:42:41PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: [encodings, file systems] > I've tried to mount filesystems (all NTFS) with different locale parameters, > still ended up with either garbled filenames or charset conversion and 'path > too long' complains from rsync. I see. > Since I've copied files manually with Thunar, it didn't complained about > anything and all copied files were consistent, even those rsync complained > about. > It could be also a limitation or bug of overlayfs since it doesn't have > locale/iocharset/codepage parameters for mount. Part of the difficulty stems from a fundamental mismatch: NTFS tightly controls its file name encoding (it is, IIRC, some kind of UTF-16, but I'm not sure anymore). Linux doesn't care -- file names are sequences of bytes, to be interpreted by the application du jour. Both approaches have disadvantages. Mixing both has even more ;-) > Anyway, I don't have access to source and two destination disks anymore to > investigate this further. > Data recovery was successful and case closed. Yay for that :-) Cheers -- t
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| From | Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-02 16:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HvHEd-2CdS-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263040 |
On 2023-11-02, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: > I've tried to mount filesystems (all NTFS) with different locale parameters, > still ended up with either garbled filenames or charset conversion and 'path > too long' complains from rsync. I use rsync on ntfs without locale parameter. This is my fstab entry : UUID=DA1AAA191AA9F325 /var/windows ntfs3 user,defaults,rw,noatime,noauto,noexec,lazytime 0 2 Perhaps you don't use v3 ? Could you mount your filesystem and provide result from "mount" command ?
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| From | Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-03 17:00 +0100 |
| Subject | All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) |
| Message-ID | <Hw4Kt-2RKS-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263005 |
On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 01, 2023 at 08:01:19PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > > > I have a "/source-folder/" which contains very large tree of folders and > > files. > > I've manually copied a set of folders and files from it to a > > "/destination-folder-one/" and > > copied another set of folders and files to a "/destination-folder-two/". > > > > Now, is there an effective way to compare combined contents of two folders > > "/destination-folder-one/" and > > "/destination-folder-two/" against a "/source-folder/" to show if there is > > anything that was left out? > > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies. If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file. The only safe harbor for the unicorns are Plan9 and now Inferno. Plan9 and Inferno carry on the original Unix philosophy of "everything is a file." What you call a directory does not matter because the unicorns were nearly extinct already. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs> and <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system)>. Jeff
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| From | tomas@tuxteam.de |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-03 18:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) |
| Message-ID | <Hw6sV-2T4F-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263080 |
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On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 11:57:59AM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 1:56 PM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote: [...] > > I concur with Nicolas: every time you say "folder", a unicorn dies. > > If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you > all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file. > The only safe harbor for the unicorns are Plan9 and now Inferno. Plan9 > and Inferno carry on the original Unix philosophy of "everything is a > file." :-) To be fair, though, these days, with ext4, you can make a directory with 40000 entries in it and you won't notice. But yes, Plan9 is cool. Closing a GUI window by rm'ing a file has some... class :-) Cheers -- t
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-03 19:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) |
| Message-ID | <Hw6VX-2Twp-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263080 |
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Jeffrey Walton (12023-11-03): > If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you > all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file. They might tell you that, but that is wrong nonetheless: they fumbled the “everything is a file” from the start. In original Unix, processes are not files. In original Unix, memory areas in the address space of a process are not files. In original Unix, time is not a file. In original Unix, signals are not files. In fact, Linux bioengineered some of these Unicorn into existence with memfd, timerfd, signalfd. Nowadays, the worst offence in this are the thread synchronization primitives. It is a tragedy that mutexes and conditions are not compatible with the file descriptors API at all. If they were, then pthreads could have made some concurrent I/O code simpler; as it is, pthreads are useful for performances, but when it comes to I/O, they them harder. Regards, -- Nicolas George
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| From | Paul Duncan <paul.d@soi-team.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-07 12:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) |
| Message-ID | <HxrYl-3L8z-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263080 |
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Okay, I'm gonna throw a bit more fuel onto this fire :-) On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 at 15:58, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote: > > If you ask folks like Brian Kernighan and Rob Pike, they will tell you > all the unicorns are dead on Linux because everything is _not_ a file. > The only safe harbor for the unicorns are Plan9 and now Inferno. Plan9 > and Inferno carry on the original Unix philosophy of "everything is a > file." > > What you call a directory does not matter because the unicorns were > nearly extinct already. > Yes, but we (on Linux and I *think* on good old System V and BSD 4.3) have mkfile and mkdir - so surely that means that everything (stored on a bit of rotating rust) is *not* a file :-) Cheers! -- *Paul Duncan* Lead Marine Technician, RV Falkor(too) SCHMIDT OCEAN INSTITUTE mobile +1 650 387 4151 VOIP +1 954 672 4943 www.schmidtocean.org Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Google+ *This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged* *information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you have received it in* *error, please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message and any attachments. Thank you.*
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| From | John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-07 15:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux |
| Message-ID | <Hxvfz-3NWI-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263205 |
Paul Duncan writes: > Yes, but we (on Linux and I *think* on good old System V and BSD 4.3) > have mkfile and mkdir - so surely that means that everything (stored > on a bit of rotating rust) is *not* a file :-) On System III directories were files. -- John Hasler john@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-07 15:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux |
| Message-ID | <Hxvpf-3NZV-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263206 |
John Hasler (12023-11-07): > On System III directories were files. On Linux, directories are files. Regards, -- Nicolas George
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| From | John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-07 17:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux |
| Message-ID | <HxwEF-3OFI-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263207 |
I wrote: > On System III directories were files. Nicolas George writes: > On Linux, directories are files. Try to edit one. On System III the same system calls operated on files and directories. -- John Hasler john@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-07 17:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux |
| Message-ID | <HxwOl-3OYe-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263208 |
John Hasler (12023-11-07): > Try to edit one. Try to edit /dev/zero. -- Nicolas George
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| From | Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-07 17:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux |
| Message-ID | <Hxxr3-3PaE-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263209 |
On 11/7/23 11:03, Nicolas George wrote: > John Hasler (12023-11-07): >> Try to edit one. > Try to edit /dev/zero. > I once edited /dev/null ;} -- It's not easy to be me
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