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swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how?

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  swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-09-29 21:20 +0200
    Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-09-29 21:30 +0200
      Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-09-29 22:40 +0200
        Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-09-29 23:40 +0200
          Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-09-30 09:30 +0200
            Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-09-30 13:50 +0200
              Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-09-30 17:20 +0200
                Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-09-30 22:20 +0200
                  Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 02:30 +0200
                    Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-10-01 17:10 +0200
                      Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 19:00 +0200
            Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-09-30 20:20 +0200
        Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-09-30 03:30 +0200
    Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Matthias Böttcher <matthias.boettcher@gmail.com> - 2023-09-30 19:30 +0200
      Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-09-30 20:00 +0200
        Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-09-30 20:20 +0200
          Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 01:50 +0200
          Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-10-01 10:20 +0200
        Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Matthias Böttcher <matthias.boettcher@gmail.com> - 2023-09-30 21:30 +0200
      Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 00:40 +0200
        Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-10-01 04:30 +0200
        Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2023-10-01 05:30 +0200
          Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-10-01 10:10 +0200
            Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 11:10 +0200
              Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-10-01 15:00 +0200
                Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-10-01 15:40 +0200
                  Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-10-01 17:40 +0200
                  Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 19:00 +0200
                Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 18:50 +0200
                  Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-10-01 20:10 +0200
                    Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 21:20 +0200
                      Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-10-02 00:50 +0200
                        Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-04 10:10 +0200
          Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-01 10:40 +0200
            Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-10-01 17:40 +0200
            Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2023-10-01 22:10 +0200
              Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-10-02 02:00 +0200
              Re: swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-10-03 04:40 +0200

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#261980 — swap-fle on arm64, need to disable, how?

Greetings all;

I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse of the u-sd 
card I need to turn off the swap file, and swapon -a the SSD stuff.

How?

Thnaks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#261981

Hello,

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 03:15:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse of the u-sd card I
> need to turn off the swap file, and swapon -a the SSD stuff.

Have you looked in /etc/fstab where as you know filesystem mounts
are described? If the swap file is listed in there, remove it and
add one that's on your SSD.

If it's noit in there, the situation is more of a mystery and I'd
suggest you paste the output of "swapon -s" so we can see what the
system, thinks it is currently swapping to.

I assume you don't need instruction on how to turn off an existing
swap source, and how to create a new swap file.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#261986

On 9/29/23 15:21, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 03:15:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse of the u-sd card I
>> need to turn off the swap file, and swapon -a the SSD stuff.
> 
> Have you looked in /etc/fstab where as you know filesystem mounts
> are described? If the swap file is listed in there, remove it and
> add one that's on your SSD.
> 
> If it's not in there, the situation is more of a mystery and I'd
> suggest you paste the output of "swapon -s" so we can see what the
> system, thinks it is currently swapping to.
> 
> I assume you don't need instruction on how to turn off an existing
> swap source, and how to create a new swap file.

Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a swap partition.

> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo swapon -s
Filename                                Type            Size 
Used            Priority
/dev/zram0                              partition       1048572 
98304           100
/dev/sda2                               partition       9859068 
0               -3

I need it to forget zram0 and use the swap on sda2, although I may try 
to move /tmp to sda4 & ext4 now that I know how to run gparted on wayland.

Whats in zram0 ATM is lose able as I just built linuxcnc debs, docs and 
all from a git clone.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#261988

Hello,

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 04:36:04PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 9/29/23 15:21, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 03:15:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse of the u-sd card I
> > > need to turn off the swap file, and swapon -a the SSD stuff.
> > 
> > Have you looked in /etc/fstab where as you know filesystem mounts
> > are described? If the swap file is listed in there, remove it and
> > add one that's on your SSD.

[…]

> Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a swap partition.

There has been no performance difference between swap files and
swap partitions for more than a decade.

> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo swapon -s
> Filename                                Type            Size Used
> Priority
> /dev/zram0                              partition       1048572 98304
> 100
> /dev/sda2                               partition       9859068 0
> -3
> 
> I need it to forget zram0 and use the swap on sda2

You didn't respond to the part about /etc/fstab so we have no idea
if you found the information you needed.

Assuming you did find the errant entry in /etc/fstab, a sequence of:

1. swapoff -a
2. edit /etc/fstab to be correct
3. swapon -a

should change things to how you want them.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#261996

On 9/29/23 17:32, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 04:36:04PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 15:21, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 03:15:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse of the u-sd card I
>>>> need to turn off the swap file, and swapon -a the SSD stuff.
>>>
>>> Have you looked in /etc/fstab where as you know filesystem mounts
>>> are described? If the swap file is listed in there, remove it and
>>> add one that's on your SSD.
> 
> […]
> 
>> Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a swap partition.
> 
> There has been no performance difference between swap files and
> swap partitions for more than a decade.

Maybe on wintel stuff, but the u-sd card the pi runs on has a write 
speed below 10 megs/second, an extremely obvious performance hit, and 
wearing out the u-sd card rapidly.

But is swap on an rpi4b not on the sd card? as an invisible swap file? 
If so there is an obvious speed hit and that sort of use would be hell 
on the u-sd card. I long ago converted the buster install so such swap 
was all on an SSD.

Here is that fstab from the buster install:
cnc@rpi4:~$ cat /sdb2/etc/fstab
proc            /proc           proc    defaults          0       0
PARTUUID=5e3da3da-01  /boot           vfat    defaults          0       2
PARTUUID=5e3da3da-02  /               ext4    defaults,noatime  0       1
# a swapfile is not a swap partition, no line here
#   use  dphys-swapfile swap[on|off]  for that
UUID=746054d4-9a33-4c79-b028-ff0000c3e40a none swap 0 0
PARTUUID=c61252a1-01  /media/pi/workspace ext4 defaults 0 1
the swap is 10Gigs worth of a 120G SSD on a startech usb/sata thing
and workspace is most of a 240G SSD on a startech usb/sata adapter with 
r/w speeds of 4 or 5 hundred megs and write speeds in the 300 range. I 
could build lcnc in 30 minutes on that pi. Or a new copy of that kernel 
in 23 minutes. And never touch the u-sd card until I installed the debs 
for a new lcnc 2 or 3 times a week.

Here is the current fstab:
  cnc@rpi4:~$ cat /etc/fstab
UUID=8E25-4B18  /boot/broadcom                          vfat 
defaults,flush 0 2
UUID=47946eb6-d88c-4331-bba9-cbe269a35925       /       ext4 
defaults,noatime,commit=600,errors=remount-ro 0 1
tmpfs                                           /tmp    tmpfs 
defaults,nosuid 0 0
# to which I've added but commented ATM
#LABEL=TEMP1                                    /tmp    ext4 
defaults,noatime,errors=remount-ro 0 1

The label is good, but is the ext4? Thats the format of /dev/sda4
/dev/sda2 is currently mounted as swap, hows below but was not mounted 
when I built linuxcnc yesterday. runtests ran normally, so I did a make 
clean and built debs, but haven't installed them.

>> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo swapon -s
>> Filename                                Type            Size Used
>> Priority
>> /dev/zram0                              partition       1048572 98304
>> 100
>> /dev/sda2                               partition       9859068 0
>> -3
>>
>> I need it to forget zram0 and use the swap on sda2
> 
> You didn't respond to the part about /etc/fstab so we have no idea
> if you found the information you needed.

I didn't find the swap listed in the fstab, its apparently setup 
someplace else in debian 12 for arm64's, so I've not finalized that yet. 
  Awaiting guidance.

> Assuming you did find the errant entry in /etc/fstab, a sequence of:
> 
> 1. swapoff -a
> 2. edit /etc/fstab to be correct
> 3. swapon -a

I'd also point out that despite the presence of the above listed swap, 
swapon -a and swapoff -a, does not enable it, I have to mount it by hand.
> 
> should change things to how you want them.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
Take care & stay well, Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#262003

Hello,

On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 03:26:19AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 9/29/23 17:32, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 04:36:04PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a swap partition.
> > 
> > There has been no performance difference between swap files and
> > swap partitions for more than a decade.
> 
> Maybe on wintel stuff, but the u-sd card the pi runs on has a write speed
> below 10 megs/second, an extremely obvious performance hit, and wearing out
> the u-sd card rapidly.

Please show evidence or retract your claim that on a raspberry pi a
swap partition performs better than a swap file (when they are both
on the same storage device). I believe you are making it up, as it
isn't the case in the kernel code and should not make any difference
by architecture.

Testimony from one of the maintainers of the memory management and
ext filesystems in the Linux kernel:

    https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/6/29/11
    https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/7/326

Swapping on SD cards in general is a bad idea regardless of
architecture, but there should be no difference between swap file or
swap partition. I did not suggest you swap to a file on SD card. I
suggested that whether you swap to a file on SSD or a partition on
SSD, the performance will be the same.

> Here is the current fstab:
>  cnc@rpi4:~$ cat /etc/fstab
> UUID=8E25-4B18  /boot/broadcom                          vfat defaults,flush
> 0 2
> UUID=47946eb6-d88c-4331-bba9-cbe269a35925       /       ext4
> defaults,noatime,commit=600,errors=remount-ro 0 1
> tmpfs                                           /tmp    tmpfs
> defaults,nosuid 0 0
> # to which I've added but commented ATM
> #LABEL=TEMP1                                    /tmp    ext4
> defaults,noatime,errors=remount-ro 0 1

There's no swap listed there and the only thing you've added seems
to have a comment in front of it, so you've effectively added
nothing so I don't understand why you expect something to change now.

> > > cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo swapon -s
> > > Filename                                Type            Size Used
> > > Priority
> > > /dev/zram0                              partition       1048572 98304
> > > 100
> > > /dev/sda2                               partition       9859068 0
> > > -3
> > > 
> > > I need it to forget zram0 and use the swap on sda2
> > 
> > You didn't respond to the part about /etc/fstab so we have no idea
> > if you found the information you needed.
> 
> I didn't find the swap listed in the fstab, its apparently setup someplace
> else in debian 12 for arm64's, so I've not finalized that yet.  Awaiting
> guidance.

This isn't Debian 12 though is it? Debian doesn't use zram by
default so this is something else. As usual we struggle to answer
your questions as they're off-topic here, amongst other
difficulties.

As the other poster mentioned, zram is set up by a systemd unit but I
don't know more about it off the top of my head.

> > 1. swapoff -a
> > 2. edit /etc/fstab to be correct
> > 3. swapon -a
> 
> I'd also point out that despite the presence of the above listed swap,
> swapon -a and swapoff -a, does not enable it, I have to mount it by hand.

As I said, your fstab as shown does not contain any reference to
swap, so I'm not surprised that you have to manually tell it to use
/dev/sda2.

First tackle disabling the zram (or making it use sda2).

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#262009

On 9/30/23 07:46, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 03:26:19AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 17:32, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 04:36:04PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a swap partition.
>>>
>>> There has been no performance difference between swap files and
>>> swap partitions for more than a decade.
>>
>> Maybe on wintel stuff, but the u-sd card the pi runs on has a write speed
>> below 10 megs/second, an extremely obvious performance hit, and wearing out
>> the u-sd card rapidly.
> 
> Please show evidence or retract your claim that on a raspberry pi a
> swap partition performs better than a swap file (when they are both
> on the same storage device). I believe you are making it up, as it
> isn't the case in the kernel code and should not make any difference
> by architecture.

There is a huge difference in the write speeds between a modern SSD that 
can be written at usb3 speeds, and the write speed of a micro-sd card 
the pi boots from.

This is a real world fact Andy C. Tested, verified FACT.

For small writes it might approach the BS claims on the blister card but 
rarely gets there, for megabyte and up writes its often below 10 megs a 
second. The blister card may claim up to 120M/S, but dd shows that 
outright lie when imaging a 64GB card with a 7G image, doing the last 
75% of that 7G at less then 10M/S.  On raspios-wheezy, swap was on the 
u-sd card. And it took me 3 hours & change to build a realtime preempt 
4.19 kernel for the pi, on the pi.  Switch the swap to a sata-iii SSD on 
a startech usb3-sata adapter, and that same kernel build is 23 minutes 
on the pi, for the pi.

> Testimony from one of the maintainers of the memory management and
> ext filesystems in the Linux kernel:
> 
>      https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/6/29/11
>      https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/7/326

TL,DR, my experience is a fact. The medium differences which you keep 
ignoring, is in FACT important.

> Swapping on SD cards in general is a bad idea regardless of
> architecture, but there should be no difference between swap file or
> swap partition. I did not suggest you swap to a file on SD card. I
> suggested that whether you swap to a file on SSD or a partition on
> SSD, the performance will be the same.

True, as long as both are on the SAME medium. However my experience with 
swap files on pi's has been with swap files on the u-sd. They do work, 
If you plan on a long nap while they work, and the u-sd card doesn't 
wear out, which I have had happen on smaller cards. That upset me, a lot 
as I had to rewrite a couple gigs of gcode that disappeared.  That 
taught me to include the pi in my amanda backups. Then I bought two 
seacrate 2T rust buckets, spent about 6 weeks building up a buster on 
the new, faster drives. And both drives disappeared off the end of the 
cables 4 days apart a week later losing everything. Junk I didn't even 
try to warranty. Burn me a third time and I'm all done with that name on 
the box. Now I'm collecting 2T gigastones to do it again, about the same 
price as the SamSung's, but turn them over and read "made in Taiwan"

Its been hell trying to make bookworm usable.  And I seem to be headed 
to do it again, the raid10 I built on bullseye for /home, is not 
compatible with bookworm and no one can tell me what to do to fix it. 
The problem is that ANYTHING that wants write access to that raid10 has 
to wait anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes to open the requestor. It 
always works, all I have to do is wait, then wait some more. Wash, rinse 
and repeat.  That's BS and you all wonder why I am in such a bad mood.

It's also a puzzle. I have an AppImages directory off of /home/gene on 
that raid10, and those AppImages work as instantly as one would expect 
from a raid10 made of 4 1T SamSung 870 SSD's. 2, maybe 3 seconds to a 
fully drawn screen ready to do work. Yet when one of those apps want to 
write, its always blocked the first time by this wait but not there 
after. But leave it running overnight, wash, rinse, repeat the delay 
again the next day.  Why?
> 
>> Here is the current fstab:
>>   cnc@rpi4:~$ cat /etc/fstab
>> UUID=8E25-4B18  /boot/broadcom                          vfat defaults,flush
>> 0 2
>> UUID=47946eb6-d88c-4331-bba9-cbe269a35925       /       ext4
>> defaults,noatime,commit=600,errors=remount-ro 0 1
>> tmpfs                                           /tmp    tmpfs
>> defaults,nosuid 0 0
>> # to which I've added but commented ATM
>> #LABEL=TEMP1                                    /tmp    ext4
>> defaults,noatime,errors=remount-ro 0 1
> 
> There's no swap listed there and the only thing you've added seems
> to have a comment in front of it, so you've effectively added
> nothing so I don't understand why you expect something to change now.
> 
>>>> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo swapon -s
>>>> Filename                                Type            Size Used
>>>> Priority
>>>> /dev/zram0                              partition       1048572 98304
>>>> 100
>>>> /dev/sda2                               partition       9859068 0
>>>> -3
>>>>
>>>> I need it to forget zram0 and use the swap on sda2
>>>
>>> You didn't respond to the part about /etc/fstab so we have no idea
>>> if you found the information you needed.
>>
>> I didn't find the swap listed in the fstab, its apparently setup someplace
>> else in debian 12 for arm64's, so I've not finalized that yet.  Awaiting
>> guidance.
> 
> This isn't Debian 12 though is it? Debian doesn't use zram by
> default so this is something else. As usual we struggle to answer
> your questions as they're off-topic here, amongst other
> difficulties.
> 
> As the other poster mentioned, zram is set up by a systemd unit but I
> don't know more about it off the top of my head.
> 
>>> 1. swapoff -a
>>> 2. edit /etc/fstab to be correct
>>> 3. swapon -a
>>
>> I'd also point out that despite the presence of the above listed swap,
>> swapon -a and swapoff -a, does not enable it, I have to mount it by hand.
> 
> As I said, your fstab as shown does not contain any reference to
> swap, so I'm not surprised that you have to manually tell it to use
> /dev/sda2.
> 
> First tackle disabling the zram (or making it use sda2).
Which is what I want to do. How? is the question...

Thank you, take care and stay well, Andy.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#262021

Hello,

On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 11:15:18AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 9/30/23 07:46, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 03:26:19AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 9/29/23 17:32, Andy Smith wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 04:36:04PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > > > Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a swap partition.
> > > > 
> > > > There has been no performance difference between swap files and
> > > > swap partitions for more than a decade.
> > > 
> > > Maybe on wintel stuff, but the u-sd card the pi runs on has a write speed
> > > below 10 megs/second, an extremely obvious performance hit, and wearing out
> > > the u-sd card rapidly.
> > 
> > Please show evidence or retract your claim that on a raspberry pi a
> > swap partition performs better than a swap file (when they are both
> > on the same storage device). I believe you are making it up, as it
> > isn't the case in the kernel code and should not make any difference
> > by architecture.
> 
> There is a huge difference in the write speeds between a modern SSD that can
> be written at usb3 speeds, and the write speed of a micro-sd card the pi
> boots from.
> 
> This is a real world fact Andy C. Tested, verified FACT.

This has become very silly now, or maybe tragic is a more suitable
description. All you have to do is look back at what you have
actually written as quoted above, or in the archives of this thread.

Except where I've paraphrased in [], the following are actual
verbatim words typed by you and I here in this thread on this list.

You said: I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse
          of the u-sd card I need to turn off the swap file, and
          swapon -a the SSD stuff.

I said: If the swap file is listed in [your fstab], remove it and
        add one that's on your SSD.

You replied: Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a
             swap partition.

No one, at any point, told you to put a swap file on an SD card. No
one, at any point, said that SD cards perform the same as SSDs.

What you have said above is that swap files are slower than swap
partitions. When corrected on this, you start saying that SD cards
are slower than SSDs, which is not a claim that anyone has disputed,
nor would anyone sensibly dispute it.

I'm surprised that you do not consider it odd that you find yourself
having to explain to someone that SD cards are slower than SSDs, and
that you do not question why that has happened. I personally am
finding it alarming that I'm having to point out to someone what
words they used two emails back in the same thread. I'm starting to
feel like neither of us are having a good time and we should stop.

> > Testimony from one of the maintainers of the memory management and
> > ext filesystems in the Linux kernel:
> > 
> >      https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/6/29/11
> >      https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/7/326
> 
> TL,DR, my experience is a fact.

You're having arguments about things that have never been claimed;
I'm having arguments about things you don't even remember writing,
and refuse to read again to refresh your memory. I'm genuinely sorry
to see it has got to this stage and I think it's best if I leave
this particular debate there.

I don't know what to do any more when you post misinformation to the
list. If we're now at a stage where you can't be conversed with
because you don't remember what you've posted even a few emails ago
and won't read back your own emails, it's not possible to convince
you of your error. But on the other hand, it often hasn't been
possible to convince you of your errors on many topics for many
years, so I suppose that can't be and should never have been the
goal. I think perhaps best to just try my best to not enter into any
debate.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#262025

On 9/30/23 16:15, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 11:15:18AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 9/30/23 07:46, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 03:26:19AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> On 9/29/23 17:32, Andy Smith wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 04:36:04PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>>>>> Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a swap partition.
>>>>>
>>>>> There has been no performance difference between swap files and
>>>>> swap partitions for more than a decade.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe on wintel stuff, but the u-sd card the pi runs on has a write speed
>>>> below 10 megs/second, an extremely obvious performance hit, and wearing out
>>>> the u-sd card rapidly.
>>>
>>> Please show evidence or retract your claim that on a raspberry pi a
>>> swap partition performs better than a swap file (when they are both
>>> on the same storage device). I believe you are making it up, as it
>>> isn't the case in the kernel code and should not make any difference
>>> by architecture.
>>
>> There is a huge difference in the write speeds between a modern SSD that can
>> be written at usb3 speeds, and the write speed of a micro-sd card the pi
>> boots from.
>>
>> This is a real world fact Andy C. Tested, verified FACT.
> 
> This has become very silly now, or maybe tragic is a more suitable
> description. All you have to do is look back at what you have
> actually written as quoted above, or in the archives of this thread.
> 
> Except where I've paraphrased in [], the following are actual
> verbatim words typed by you and I here in this thread on this list.
> 
> You said: I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse
>            of the u-sd card I need to turn off the swap file, and
>            swapon -a the SSD stuff.
> 
> I said: If the swap file is listed in [your fstab], remove it and
>          add one that's on your SSD.
> 
> You replied: Swap file is the last thing I want, much slower than a
>               swap partition.
> 
> No one, at any point, told you to put a swap file on an SD card. No
> one, at any point, said that SD cards perform the same as SSDs.
> 
> What you have said above is that swap files are slower than swap
> partitions. When corrected on this, you start saying that SD cards
> are slower than SSDs, which is not a claim that anyone has disputed,
> nor would anyone sensibly dispute it.
> 
> I'm surprised that you do not consider it odd that you find yourself
> having to explain to someone that SD cards are slower than SSDs, and
> that you do not question why that has happened. I personally am
> finding it alarming that I'm having to point out to someone what
> words they used two emails back in the same thread. I'm starting to
> feel like neither of us are having a good time and we should stop.
> 
>>> Testimony from one of the maintainers of the memory management and
>>> ext filesystems in the Linux kernel:
>>>
>>>       https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/6/29/11
>>>       https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/7/326
>>
>> TL,DR, my experience is a fact.
> 
> You're having arguments about things that have never been claimed;
> I'm having arguments about things you don't even remember writing,
> and refuse to read again to refresh your memory. I'm genuinely sorry
> to see it has got to this stage and I think it's best if I leave
> this particular debate there.
> 
> I don't know what to do any more when you post misinformation to the
> list. If we're now at a stage where you can't be conversed with
> because you don't remember what you've posted even a few emails ago
> and won't read back your own emails, it's not possible to convince
> you of your error. But on the other hand, it often hasn't been
> possible to convince you of your errors on many topics for many
> years, so I suppose that can't be and should never have been the
> goal. I think perhaps best to just try my best to not enter into any
> debate.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
Andy, with good luck, you may make to your 89th birthday, which with 
good luck I'll celebrate next Wednesday.  I certainly hope you do. By 
then you will not see any humor in trying to remember what, if anything, 
you had for breakfast this morning. I seem to have reached that point. 
And I'm not any happier for it either.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#262046

On 2023-10-01, gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
>> 
> Andy, with good luck, you may make to your 89th birthday, which with 
> good luck I'll celebrate next Wednesday.  I certainly hope you do. By 
> then you will not see any humor in trying to remember what, if anything, 
> you had for breakfast this morning. I seem to have reached that point. 
> And I'm not any happier for it either.

What are you building? A space ship to get out of here?

> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

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#262051

On 10/1/23 11:01, Curt wrote:
> On 2023-10-01, gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
>>>
>> Andy, with good luck, you may make to your 89th birthday, which with
>> good luck I'll celebrate next Wednesday.  I certainly hope you do. By
>> then you will not see any humor in trying to remember what, if anything,
>> you had for breakfast this morning. I seem to have reached that point.
>> And I'm not any happier for it either.
> 
> What are you building? A space ship to get out of here?

That is an inviting thought, but I'll likely die en-route.

I'd show folks what I am building but the server does not like jpegs or 
png's.
> 
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#262016

On Sat 30 Sep 2023 at 03:26:19 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 9/29/23 17:32, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 04:36:04PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo swapon -s
> > > Filename                                Type            Size Used
> > > Priority
> > > /dev/zram0                              partition       1048572 98304
> > > 100
> > > /dev/sda2                               partition       9859068 0
> > > -3
> > > 
> > > I need it to forget zram0 and use the swap on sda2
> > 
> > You didn't respond to the part about /etc/fstab so we have no idea
> > if you found the information you needed.
> 
> I didn't find the swap listed in the fstab, its apparently setup
> someplace else in debian 12 for arm64's, so I've not finalized that
> yet.  Awaiting guidance.
> 
> > Assuming you did find the errant entry in /etc/fstab, a sequence of:
> > 
> > 1. swapoff -a
> > 2. edit /etc/fstab to be correct
> > 3. swapon -a
> 
> I'd also point out that despite the presence of the above listed swap,
> swapon -a and swapoff -a, does not enable it, I have to mount it by
> hand.
> > 
> > should change things to how you want them.

IMO you're being blinded by /etc/fstab and -a. Rather, use /proc/swaps
to see what the kernel knows, and stop using -a. Cut and paste what
you do and the output, rather than all this "doesn't work" etc.

I'm guessing that on a parallel track, you need to examine the startup
files of whatever this beast is, presumably not Debian, and find some
occurrence of swapon that you can, in your jargon, "nuke".

Cheers,
David.

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#261992

On 30/09/2023 03:36, gene heskett wrote:
> On 9/29/23 15:21, Andy Smith wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 03:15:54PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>>> I have SSD's for swap on an rpi4b, so to lessen the abuse of the u-sd 
>>
> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo swapon -s
> Filename                                Type            Size 
> Used            Priority
> /dev/zram0                              partition       1048572 
> 98304           100
> /dev/sda2                               partition       9859068 
> 0               -3
> 
> I need it to forget zram0 and use the swap on sda2

Out of curiosity, is zram0 really belongs to the SD card or it is 
compressed pages in RAM?

Besides fstab it might be configured through a systemd .mount target.

Accordingly to https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Zram it requires more 
configuration however.

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#262012

sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service

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#262015

On 9/30/23 13:28, Matthias Böttcher wrote:
> sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
> sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
> sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service
> 
> .
Looks familiar but none of that is installed
cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
sudo: dphys-swapfile: command not found
cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
Failed to stop dphys-swapfile.service: Unit dphys-swapfile.service not 
loaded.
cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service
Failed to disable unit: Unit file dphys-swapfile.service does not exist.

What I'm trying to do is get rid of zram0, which is being used as swap, 
and sub real swap on an SSD in its place. And zram0 is not listed in 
fstab, but swapon finds it.

Thank you, Matthias Böttcher

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#262018

On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 01:50:57PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 9/30/23 13:28, Matthias Böttcher wrote:
> > sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
> > sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
> > sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service
> > 
> > .
> Looks familiar but none of that is installed
> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
> sudo: dphys-swapfile: command not found
> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
> Failed to stop dphys-swapfile.service: Unit dphys-swapfile.service not
> loaded.
> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service
> Failed to disable unit: Unit file dphys-swapfile.service does not exist.

Come now, you should be able to figure this shit out by now, Gene.

unicorn:~$ apt-cache search dphys swap
dphys-swapfile - Autogenerate and use a swap file

I've never even HEARD of this thing before, and I can figure out to run
a basic command to search for the right package.

Now, whether running those dphys commands is GOOD or USEFUL is an
entirely different question.  But you should have the basic competence
to do an "apt(-cache) search" by now.

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#262024

On 9/30/23 14:16, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> search dphys swap
Something I need to learn. But its been yonks since I last needed that.
Anyway, problem is solved,  Thank you. Take care ad stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#262034

On 01/10/2023 01:16, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 01:50:57PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
>> sudo: dphys-swapfile: command not found
...
> unicorn:~$ apt-cache search dphys swap
> dphys-swapfile - Autogenerate and use a swap file

 From my point of view, "command not found" is a clear sign that 
/dev/zram0 is created by some other package. I have never tried to setup 
ZRAM, so I have no idea if some amount of RAM may be preallocated even 
when /dev/zram0 is not added to swap. From my point of view, instead of 
installing additional packages, it is better to find its current 
configuration. At least it will ensure that all RAM is available for 
applications.

I posted a link to ArchLinux wiki with hope that it may contain some 
hints how to configure ZRAM and thus how to disable it.

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#262020

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi Gene,

please check explanations in this blog:
https://www.dwarmstrong.org/zram-linuxmint/

HTH
Matthias

gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> schrieb am Sa., 30. Sept. 2023, 19:51:

> On 9/30/23 13:28, Matthias Böttcher wrote:
> > sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
> > sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
> > sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service
> >
> > .
> Looks familiar but none of that is installed
> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
> sudo: dphys-swapfile: command not found
> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
> Failed to stop dphys-swapfile.service: Unit dphys-swapfile.service not
> loaded.
> cnc@rpi4:/etc$ sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service
> Failed to disable unit: Unit file dphys-swapfile.service does not exist.
>
> What I'm trying to do is get rid of zram0, which is being used as swap,
> and sub real swap on an SSD in its place. And zram0 is not listed in
> fstab, but swapon finds it.
>
> Thank you, Matthias Böttcher
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
>
>

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#262022

On 9/30/23 13:28, Matthias Böttcher wrote:
> sudo dphys-swapfile swapoff
> sudo systemctl stop dphys-swapfile.service
> sudo systemctl disable dphys-swapfile.service
> 
> .
However that did give me a clue about getting rid of zram0, which has 
been done now, thank you. Now I hope to uncomment the SSD line in fstab.

So I've re-partitioned & reformatted the 120G SSD to a gpt partition 
table eith 10G of swap and a hair over 110G of ext4 for workspace.
But that is still no good. I can sudo swapon /dev/sda1 & sudo swapon -a 
now works, but sudo swapon -s returns nothing. But I cannot label the 
partition.  At least not with gparted.  I did generate a new blkid then 
put the partuuid in fstab, rebooted it and that worked.

So this problem is solved. Until something changes the partuid.

Thanks for putting up with me.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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