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just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file

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  just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Maureen L Thomas <silverorb@verizon.net> - 2023-09-05 06:30 +0200
    Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-09-05 07:50 +0200
      Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-09-05 13:20 +0200
      Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-09-05 21:50 +0200
        Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-09-05 22:30 +0200
          Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-09-06 00:40 +0200
          Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-09-06 05:20 +0200
            Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-09-06 06:00 +0200
          Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-09-06 12:30 +0200
            Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-09-06 13:00 +0200
      Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-09-05 22:30 +0200
        Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-09-06 05:20 +0200
          Re: su Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-09-06 05:50 +0200
            Re: su Charlie <ariestao@skymesh.com.au> - 2023-09-06 08:00 +0200
            Re: su Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-09-06 09:40 +0200
              Re: su Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-09-14 12:40 +0200
                Re: su Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-09-14 16:30 +0200
                  Re: su Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-09-14 17:30 +0200
                    Re: su Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-09-15 04:20 +0200
            Re: su Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-09-06 11:10 +0200
    Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2023-09-05 12:00 +0200
    Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-09-05 17:20 +0200
      Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-09-05 20:40 +0200
      Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-09-05 22:50 +0200
        Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-09-06 00:50 +0200
        Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-09-06 01:00 +0200
        Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-09-06 09:50 +0200
    Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2023-09-06 00:00 +0200
      Re: just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-09-06 00:20 +0200

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#261488 — just a question about the iwlwifi_20230515-3 file

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I keep getting messages that it is not installed.  So I went on line and 
found a link but it was for Sid.  I have bookworm.  I did not use it but 
I downloaded the one for bookworm, at least I think I did.  It is in a 
folder marked Debian.  I have tried every witch way to install it but am 
at a complete loss.  I tied su and then apt-install and that didn't 
work.  Dummy me I was not in the Debian file so I redid it while I was 
in the Debian file.  Still will not install.  I know the answer is 
probably very simple but for the life of me I have forgotten how to do 
it.  Is it important or can I ignore it.  I do have wifi.

Grany Moe Again.

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#261489

On 5/9/23 12:23, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
>   I have tried every witch way to install it but am at a complete loss.


Assuming you downloaded a deb file, the usual mechansim is

sudo dpkg - i <yourfile>.deb

sudo apt --fix-broken install

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#261492

On Tue, Sep 05, 2023 at 01:40:55PM +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> On 5/9/23 12:23, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> >   I have tried every witch way to install it but am at a complete loss.
> 
> 
> Assuming you downloaded a deb file, the usual mechansim is
> 
> sudo dpkg - i <yourfile>.deb
> 
> sudo apt --fix-broken install

That's the old way.  The newer way is:

    sudo apt install ./<yourfile>.deb

The leading ./ is required.  The pathname must begin with "/" or "./"
or "../", or else apt assumes you're typing a package name.

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#261499

On Tue, Sep 05, 2023 at 03:39:59PM -0400, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> This is what I did and the errors it produced.
> 
> root@debiandesktop-4:/home/maureen/Debian# dpkg -i
> firmware-iwlwifi_20210315-3_all.deb
> dpkg: warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
> dpkg: warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
> dpkg: error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable
> Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and
> /sbin
> 

At this point, you are not root and so dpkg -i complains.

Assuming that you have an Intel wifi chipset and previously had iwlwifi
installed, there's probably no need to install a non-free-firmware package
from sid just to get iwlwifi versions that absolutely match the error message
that prompted you to go looking for a newer version.

In general: firmware doesn't change *that* often and an older iwlwifi 
verion will just carry on working until there's a new one to replace it.

DontBreakDebian - mixing distribution versions is hard and can lead to
significant problems.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater
> On 9/5/23 1:40 AM, jeremy ardley wrote:
> > 
> > On 5/9/23 12:23, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> > >   I have tried every witch way to install it but am at a complete loss.
> > 
> > 
> > Assuming you downloaded a deb file, the usual mechansim is
> > 
> > sudo dpkg - i <yourfile>.deb
> > 
> > sudo apt --fix-broken install
> > 

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#261500

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 19:47:00 +0000
"Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> wrote:

> At this point, you are not root and so dpkg -i complains.

Actually she is root (the # in the prompt, and the username@host at the
beginning of the prompt, assuming she hasn't played with her prompts).
What she does not have, apparently, is ldconfig or start-stop-daemon in
her path, as dpkg diagnosed at the end of that message. This is likely
due to gaining root privileges without setting the path correctly.

E.g. gaining root privileges with "su" vs. "su -i".

Sorry to nitpick, but I hope the OP is will read this and, I hope,
learn from it.


-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#261505

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 18:16:54 -0400
Maureen L Thomas <silverorb@verizon.net> wrote:

> so what you are saying is I should have used su -i and not just su.

Correct.

> 
> also I downloaded the file for Bookworm, I did not use the one from
> SID.

Ah, OK.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#261513

On 2023-09-05, Charles Curley wrote:

> E.g. gaining root privileges with "su" vs. "su -i".

You mean vs "su -" or "su -l" or "su --login" :)

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#261515

On 06/09/2023 10:12, Michel Verdier wrote:
> On 2023-09-05, Charles Curley wrote:
> 
>> E.g. gaining root privileges with "su" vs. "su -i".
> 
> You mean vs "su -" or "su -l" or "su --login" :)

Or "sudo -i" ("sudo --login")

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#261529

Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 19:47:00 +0000
> "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> wrote:
> 
> > At this point, you are not root and so dpkg -i complains.  
> 
> Actually she is root (the # in the prompt, and the username@host at
> the beginning of the prompt, assuming she hasn't played with her
> prompts). What she does not have, apparently, is ldconfig or
> start-stop-daemon in her path, as dpkg diagnosed at the end of that
> message. This is likely due to gaining root privileges without
> setting the path correctly.
> 
> E.g. gaining root privileges with "su" vs. "su -i".

Isn't -i a sudo option rather than an su option?

> Sorry to nitpick, but I hope the OP is will read this and, I hope,
> learn from it.

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#261530

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On Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 11:28:03AM +0100, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> wrote:

[...]

> > E.g. gaining root privileges with "su" vs. "su -i".
> 
> Isn't -i a sudo option rather than an su option?

Yes:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ su -i
  su: invalid option -- 'i'
  Try 'su --help' for more information.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#261501

On Tue, Sep 05, 2023 at 03:39:59PM -0400, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> This is what I did and the errors it produced.
> 
> root@debiandesktop-4:/home/maureen/Debian# dpkg -i
> firmware-iwlwifi_20210315-3_all.deb
> dpkg: warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
> dpkg: warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
> dpkg: error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable
> Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and
> /sbin

You used "su" to become root, I believe.  Unfortunately, beginning
with Debian 9, "su" with no arguments and no configuration doesn't
behave the way it used to behave.  Specifically, it no longer sets the
PATH variable properly.  And so you get the above results.

See <https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes> for the options
available to you.  If you wish to continue using su, I strongly recommend
creating a /etc/default/su file.

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#261512

On 2023-09-05, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> You used "su" to become root, I believe.  Unfortunately, beginning
> with Debian 9, "su" with no arguments and no configuration doesn't
> behave the way it used to behave.  Specifically, it no longer sets the
> PATH variable properly.  And so you get the above results.
>
> See <https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes> for the options
> available to you.  If you wish to continue using su, I strongly recommend
> creating a /etc/default/su file.

I have no /etc/default/su and never need one. According to the man page
su also reads /etc/login.defs. To get root env she only needs to use:
"su -"

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#261514 — Re: su

On Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 05:09:29AM +0200, Michel Verdier wrote:
> On 2023-09-05, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> > You used "su" to become root, I believe.  Unfortunately, beginning
> > with Debian 9, "su" with no arguments and no configuration doesn't
> > behave the way it used to behave.  Specifically, it no longer sets the
> > PATH variable properly.  And so you get the above results.
> >
> > See <https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes> for the options
> > available to you.  If you wish to continue using su, I strongly recommend
> > creating a /etc/default/su file.
> 
> I have no /etc/default/su and never need one. According to the man page
> su also reads /etc/login.defs. To get root env she only needs to use:
> "su -"

How *incredibly* Red Hat.  Really, it just sickens me that this is the
answer accepted by so many people.

Do you want a *specific* reason why this answer is crap?  OK, here's my
reason.

Let's say you've downloaded a program in source code form from the Internet.
You unpack it, and read the installation instructions.  Then you end up
running some combination of "./configure" and "make", or maybe "cmake",
or something like that.  Then, when all that fun stuff is done, it's time
to install your new program into the system directories so it can be used.

To perform that installation, you run "su", which gives you a root shell,
and then you do something like "make install".

But the Red Hat answer says you should use "su -" instead, to become root.
What happens now?  You've created a login shell.  Now you're no longer
in the directory where your source code was extracted and compiled.
You're in root's $HOME directory.  So "make install" fails.

You could use a "cd" command to get to the source code.  But "cd -" won't
work, because the previous working directory is not known to the root
login shell.  The root login shell has intentionally discarded everything
from your previous shell, including the old working directory's name.
So you can't "cd -", but instead, you have to re-type the entire path to
the source code directory.  Or copy and paste it out of your shell prompt,
if that's still visible on the screen, and if it happens to contain the
entire path.

Wouldn't it be *nicer* if su simply WORKED?!

You can make su work by creating a ONE-LINE CONFIGURATION FILE.

Just put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" into /etc/default/su and the problem
is FIXED.  "su" will work properly again!

> su also reads /etc/login.defs

Yes, it does.  And when the buster problem was first noted, some people
discovered that putting ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes into /etc/login.defs would
fix su.  This was actually published on the Debian wiki as well, as it
was the first known fix for the broken su.

Unfortunately, this fix has an undesired side effect.  It causes console
logins to print an error message, because the ALWAYS_SET_PATH line in
/etc/login.defs is not known to login(1), but only to su(1).

This error doesn't actually *hurt* anything, but it's really annoying.
And scary, for people who don't know where it's coming from.

Putting the configuration in /etc/default/su is a *better* solution,
because it works, and doesn't cause logins to print a confusing error
message.

Unfortunately, Debian DOESN'T CREATE THIS FILE BY DEFAULT.  People are
scared to create it themselves, because people have been "trained"
by years of Linux distribution handholding that if a program has
a configuration file, that file will *exist*, and will have helpful
comments in it, and they only have to find the file and edit it.
The idea of *creating* a configuration file that's missing is terrifying
for some people.

That's why I put the extra advice "(create it)" on the wiki.  I know
it won't be strong enough advice to overcome everyone's fears, but I do
hope it's enough to encourage people who are on the fence to be brave.
To reassure them that yes, we know Debian screwed up, and yes, we know
the file *should* be there, and it's not, but that's OK.  You can make
it yourself.

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#261517 — Re: su

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 23:41:45 -0400
Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:

> To perform that installation, you run "su", which gives you a root
> shell, and then you do something like "make install".
> 
> But the Red Hat answer says you should use "su -" instead, to become
> root. What happens now?  You've created a login shell.  Now you're no
> longer in the directory where your source code was extracted and
> compiled. You're in root's $HOME directory.  So "make install" fails.
> 
> You could use a "cd" command to get to the source code.  But "cd -"
> won't work, because the previous working directory is not known to
> the root login shell.  The root login shell has intentionally
> discarded everything from your previous shell, including the old
> working directory's name. So you can't "cd -", but instead, you have
> to re-type the entire path to the source code directory.  Or copy and
> paste it out of your shell prompt, if that's still visible on the
> screen, and if it happens to contain the entire path.
> 
> Wouldn't it be *nicer* if su simply WORKED?!
> 
> You can make su work by creating a ONE-LINE CONFIGURATION FILE.

Thank you Greg
-- 
	**  **  **  **  **  **  **  **  **  **
	Registered Linux User:- 329524
	***********************************************

	There is no exercise better for the heart than reaching down
	and lifting people up.-- John Holmes

	***********************************************
	Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic
	_______________________________________________

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#261520 — Re: su

On 06/09/2023 10:41, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> Just put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" into /etc/default/su and the problem
> is FIXED.  "su" will work properly again!

Greg, you provided a valid example when "su -" is undesirable, however 
in general "su -" is safer than just "su" since it resets some user 
specific environment variables like XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 that 
may cause creation of files that the original user can not overwrite 
them. So "su -" should have less unexpected effects.

> Unfortunately, Debian DOESN'T CREATE THIS FILE BY DEFAULT.  People are
> scared to create it themselves, because people have been "trained"
> by years of Linux distribution handholding that if a program has
> a configuration file, that file will *exist*, and will have helpful
> comments in it, and they only have to find the file and edit it.
> The idea of *creating* a configuration file that's missing is terrifying
> for some people.

I find it more convenient when a configuration file may be created in 
addition to ones provided by the package. It makes changes more visible. 
It may be advantage or disadvantage if during package upgrade default 
configs are replaced without a query related to changed directives.

This particular settings is described in su(1) so can be discovered by 
users with reasonable amount of efforts. Certainly a configuration 
example may still be preferable for users.

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#261660 — Re: su

On 2023-09-06 14:36:48 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 06/09/2023 10:41, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > 
> > Just put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" into /etc/default/su and the problem
> > is FIXED.  "su" will work properly again!
> 
> Greg, you provided a valid example when "su -" is undesirable, however in
> general "su -" is safer than just "su" since it resets some user specific
> environment variables like XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 that may cause
> creation of files that the original user can not overwrite them. So "su -"
> should have less unexpected effects.

Yes, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is problematic, but as "su -" doesn't work in
GNU Screen (it yields major display issues), I presume that some
environment variables (terminal related?) are still useful.

FYI, I had written a su wrapper that unsets XDG_RUNTIME_DIR first.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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#261662 — Re: su

On 14/09/2023 17:30, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> Yes, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is problematic, but as "su -" doesn't work in
> GNU Screen (it yields major display issues), I presume that some
> environment variables (terminal related?) are still useful.

I just have tried it. "su -" preserves TERM=screen.xterm-256color. 
Behavior is different from pure xterm-256color, but I have no guess what 
you may consider as major display issues. E.g. vim is even able to 
determine if background is dark or light and to adjust color scheme 
accordingly.

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#261668 — Re: su

On 2023-09-14 21:25:56 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 14/09/2023 17:30, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Yes, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is problematic, but as "su -" doesn't work in
> > GNU Screen (it yields major display issues), I presume that some
> > environment variables (terminal related?) are still useful.
> 
> I just have tried it. "su -" preserves TERM=screen.xterm-256color. Behavior
> is different from pure xterm-256color, but I have no guess what you may
> consider as major display issues. E.g. vim is even able to determine if
> background is dark or light and to adjust color scheme accordingly.

I noticed the issue just before the upgrade to bookworm (I wanted
to do that for the upgrade). But I can't reproduce it in bookworm.
So this may have been an old bug that has been fixed.

IIRC, this was text positioning issues, perhaps when recalling
commands from the history.

BTW, I don't think that the preservation of $TERM is sufficient.
Preserving $TERMINFO (when set) is important too.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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#261682 — Re: su

On 14/09/2023 22:26, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> 
> I noticed the issue just before the upgrade to bookworm (I wanted
> to do that for the upgrade). But I can't reproduce it in bookworm.
> So this may have been an old bug that has been fixed.

I do not follow the topic, so I can not attribute changes to particular 
releases, but certainly I see progress: new features in terminal 
applications, changes in terminal definitions, adding new ones like tmux 
flavors.

> IIRC, this was text positioning issues, perhaps when recalling
> commands from the history.

It may be related to a readline library. E.g. bash does not rely on

     xterm*VT100.reverseWrap: true

> BTW, I don't think that the preservation of $TERM is sufficient.
> Preserving $TERMINFO (when set) is important too.

I do not use TERMINFO, however if you need to preserve it than you may use

     su --whitelist-environment=TERMINFO -

My use case is lxc-attach and DISPLAY.

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#261526 — Re: su

On 2023-09-05, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> How *incredibly* Red Hat.  Really, it just sickens me that this is the
> answer accepted by so many people.

It's not Red Hat, it's man page and own practice, even before Red Hat
exists :)

> To perform that installation, you run "su", which gives you a root shell,
> and then you do something like "make install".

I either do all as root, after "su -", or use sudo for a single command.

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