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Donate money

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  Donate money noah poulton <noahpoulton2@gmail.com> - 2024-01-08 12:30 +0100
    Re: Donate money Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-01-08 13:10 +0100
      Re: Donate money piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2024-01-08 13:50 +0100
      Re: Donate money Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2024-01-08 14:00 +0100
    Re: Donate money debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-01-08 19:10 +0100
      Re: Donate money gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-01-08 20:40 +0100
        Re: Donate money David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> - 2024-01-08 21:40 +0100
          Re: Donate money John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-01-09 00:20 +0100
            Re: Donate money David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> - 2024-01-09 02:40 +0100
              Re: Donate money John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-01-09 02:50 +0100
                Re: Donate money David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> - 2024-01-09 03:40 +0100
                  Re: Donate money Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 04:10 +0100
              Re: Donate money Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-01-09 19:00 +0100
                Re: Donate money gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-01-09 19:20 +0100
                Re: Donate money David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> - 2024-01-09 19:20 +0100
            Re: Donate money gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-01-09 04:10 +0100

#265648 — Donate money

Hi guys!


I was wondering, is there a way to donate to Debian via direct debit? I 
want to to donate but I don't have a paypal account (and I don't really 
want to create one).

I live in the UK (if that makes a difference).


Thanks,

Noah Poulton.

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#265649

Am 08.01.2024 um 11:07:30 Uhr schrieb noah poulton:

> I was wondering, is there a way to donate to Debian via direct debit?
> I want to to donate but I don't have a paypal account (and I don't
> really want to create one).

There are other ways like IBAN bank transfer:
https://www.debian.org/donations

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#265653

On 08/01/2024 12:08, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 08.01.2024 um 11:07:30 Uhr schrieb noah poulton:
>
>> I was wondering, is there a way to donate to Debian via direct debit?
>> I want to to donate but I don't have a paypal account (and I don't
>> really want to create one).
>
> There are other ways like IBAN bank transfer:
> https://www.debian.org/donations
>
Is it possible to donate with Bitcoin?

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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#265654

On 1/8/24 04:08, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 08.01.2024 um 11:07:30 Uhr schrieb noah poulton:
>
>> I was wondering, is there a way to donate to Debian via direct debit?
>> I want to to donate but I don't have a paypal account (and I don't
>> really want to create one).
> There are other ways like IBAN bank transfer:
> https://www.debian.org/donations
>
yes, follow that link!
My bank is set to make recurring donations.
I forget what process I used to set it up, but it was quite simple.

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#265669

noah poulton <noahpoulton2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys!
> 
> 
> I was wondering, is there a way to donate to Debian via direct debit?
> I want to to donate but I don't have a paypal account (and I don't
> really want to create one).
> 
> I live in the UK (if that makes a difference).

Clicking on the paypal link doesn't mean you need to create a paypal
account. It's just a payment service and you can use your regular
credit card details. I agree it would be better for Debian to use some
other payment service though!

> Thanks,
> 
> Noah Poulton.

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#265671

On 1/8/24 13:09, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> noah poulton <noahpoulton2@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys!
>>
>>
>> I was wondering, is there a way to donate to Debian via direct debit?
>> I want to to donate but I don't have a paypal account (and I don't
>> really want to create one).
>>
>> I live in the UK (if that makes a difference).
> 
> Clicking on the paypal link doesn't mean you need to create a paypal
> account. It's just a payment service and you can use your regular
> credit card details. I agree it would be better for Debian to use some
> other payment service though!
> 
I agree 200%, as a broadcast engineer working for an outfit that had 
several b-cast properties all over the country, and good at putting out 
tech fires, I was flown halfway across the country to put out the fires 
caused by an incompetent EE that was on the missing list, he found a 
woman and had basically abandoned his duties. So I got shipped to 
western Colorado, with instructions to see if I could fix the commercial 
player for a 4 channel one control room complex. Which I had diagnosed 
as a dead scsi card 30 minutes after getting off the airplane.

So I go to the CE's office and using his windows xp computer which it 
turns out was setup by the local ISP with a pretty tight lockdown. But I 
eventually get to ebay and buy a card for about $50. I had all the data 
I needed to prove it was me accessing my account to pay the guy, but I 
was a hacker and the transaction was blocked because I wasn't coming in 
from my home computer 1700 miles east. This failure was costing us about 
$50k a day in lost revenue so speed was prime, but it took me calling 
Seattle after figuring out what the problem was, threatening a lawsuit 
at $100k/day in damages to finally get paypal to pay the guy a measly 
$50. They turned a next day fix into 6 days.

I have a very long memory for such, and have not used paypal since. If 
my card isn't any good, no sale. 30 years later I run into the paypal 
only thing on the debian donate page and back out.  Debian has been good 
to me, and I have enough machines running it or some variation that 
since I'm a firm believer in TANSTAAFL, me putting a kilo in the kitty, 
no strings attached, is not out of line. But it won't come thru paypal.
If that paypal only policy ever changes, please advise this list. I am 
subbed.

Thanks for reading another of my war stories.  Take care, stay warm and 
well all.

>> Thanks,
>>
>> Noah Poulton.
> 
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#265672

On Mon, 2024-01-08 at 14:35 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 1/8/24 13:09, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > noah poulton <noahpoulton2@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi guys!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I was wondering, is there a way to donate to Debian via direct
> > > debit?
> > > I want to to donate but I don't have a paypal account (and I
> > > don't
> > > really want to create one).
> > > 
> > > I live in the UK (if that makes a difference).
> > 
> > Clicking on the paypal link doesn't mean you need to create a
> > paypal
> > account. It's just a payment service and you can use your regular
> > credit card details. I agree it would be better for Debian to use
> > some
> > other payment service though!
> > 
> I agree 200%, as a broadcast engineer working for an outfit that had 
> several b-cast properties all over the country, and good at putting
> out 
> tech fires, I was flown halfway across the country to put out the
> fires 
> caused by an incompetent EE that was on the missing list, he found a 
> woman and had basically abandoned his duties. So I got shipped to 
> western Colorado, with instructions to see if I could fix the
> commercial 
> player for a 4 channel one control room complex. Which I had
> diagnosed 
> as a dead scsi card 30 minutes after getting off the airplane.
> 
> So I go to the CE's office and using his windows xp computer which it
> turns out was setup by the local ISP with a pretty tight lockdown.
> But I 
> eventually get to ebay and buy a card for about $50. I had all the
> data 
> I needed to prove it was me accessing my account to pay the guy, but
> I 
> was a hacker and the transaction was blocked because I wasn't coming
> in 
> from my home computer 1700 miles east. This failure was costing us
> about 
> $50k a day in lost revenue so speed was prime, but it took me calling
> Seattle after figuring out what the problem was, threatening a
> lawsuit 
> at $100k/day in damages to finally get paypal to pay the guy a measly
> $50. They turned a next day fix into 6 days.
> 
> I have a very long memory for such, and have not used paypal since.
> If 
> my card isn't any good, no sale. 30 years later I run into the paypal
> only thing on the debian donate page and back out.  Debian has been
> good 
> to me, and I have enough machines running it or some variation that 
> since I'm a firm believer in TANSTAAFL, me putting a kilo in the
> kitty, 
> no strings attached, is not out of line. But it won't come thru
> paypal.
> If that paypal only policy ever changes, please advise this list. I
> am 
> subbed.
> 
> Thanks for reading another of my war stories.  Take care, stay warm
> and 
> well all.

Agreed!
It has been a substantial number of years since I have cancelled my
Paypal account, now.
The way they would withhold payments as not going to approved entities
by the powers that be has forced me into believing they are more of an
information gathering utility disguised as a financial one.
If you undertake to act as a medium in a financial transaction, that's
what you do.
You don't put through some transactions and not others, simply because
they are heading to an Assange fund or some other entity not currently
approved of by American foreign policy preference.
Cheers!

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#265680

David writes:
> The way they would withhold payments as not going to approved entities
> by the powers that be has forced me into believing they are more of an
> information gathering utility disguised as a financial one.  If you
> undertake to act as a medium in a financial transaction, that's what
> you do.

They have to comply with the (vaguely worded) law if they want to stay
in business.  I doubt that they like it any more than we do.

> You don't put through some transactions and not others, simply because
> they are heading to an Assange fund or some other entity not currently
> approved of by American foreign policy preference.

The "know your customer" regulations are by no means a US-only
phenomena.  It's supposed to prevent "money laundering".

-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#265684

On Mon, 2024-01-08 at 17:10 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> David writes:
> > The way they would withhold payments as not going to approved
> > entities
> > by the powers that be has forced me into believing they are more of
> > an
> > information gathering utility disguised as a financial one.  If you
> > undertake to act as a medium in a financial transaction, that's
> > what
> > you do.
> 
> They have to comply with the (vaguely worded) law if they want to
> stay
> in business.  I doubt that they like it any more than we do.

This forces _everybody_ to comply with American law: unilateral world
order by any other name.

> > You don't put through some transactions and not others, simply
> > because
> > they are heading to an Assange fund or some other entity not
> > currently
> > approved of by American foreign policy preference.
> 
> The "know your customer" regulations are by no means a US-only
> phenomena.  It's supposed to prevent "money laundering".

A directly attributed, undisguised donation to an Assange fund, or any
other (because this applied to more than one isolated case) does not
qualify as `money-laundering'. Compare this to the $21 trillion missing
from Pentagon finances and the money which has `gone astray' in the
Ukrainian scenario to observe the difference.

Who knows?
Perhaps the Debian Project, represented in the media as `an
unaccountable collective of hackers', will be next.
Yes, we definitely need something better than Paypal.
Cheers! 
> 

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#265685

David writes:
> This forces _everybody_ to comply with American law: unilateral world
> order by any other name.

It is not a uniquely USA law.  It's part of an international scheme in
which most governments participate.

> A directly attributed, undisguised donation to an Assange fund, or any
> other (because this applied to more than one isolated case) does not
> qualify as `money-laundering'.

I didn't say that it did.  I said that preventing "money laundering" is
what the scheme *purports* to do.

> Yes, we definitely need something better than Paypal.

I don't like PayPal either but you won't find any way to do
international transactions without dealing with obnoxious regulations.
-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#265688

On Mon, 2024-01-08 at 19:48 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> David writes:
> > This forces _everybody_ to comply with American law: unilateral
> > world
> > order by any other name.
> 
> It is not a uniquely USA law.  It's part of an international scheme
> in
> which most governments participate.

Where is Paypal based?
Then it operates under American law, doesn't it?

> > A directly attributed, undisguised donation to an Assange fund, or
> > any
> > other (because this applied to more than one isolated case) does
> > not
> > qualify as `money-laundering'.
> 
> I didn't say that it did.  I said that preventing "money laundering"
> is
> what the scheme *purports* to do.

And I'm saying the KYC procedure (in any country) doesn't apply to a
situation where both the donor and recipient of a financial process are
openly declared.
What's to know?
Essence of red herring.

> 
> > Yes, we definitely need something better than Paypal.
> 
> I don't like PayPal either but you won't find any way to do
> international transactions without dealing with obnoxious
> regulations.

Ummmm, yes there are,
But I'm not about to openly advertise my modes of transaction here.
They do exist, they are not dishonest, they are not hard to discern, or
difficult to put into play, either.
 I merely move my money (emphasis on `my money') to where I require it
to be.
No obnoxious regulations in evidence.
Cheers!

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#265690

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 9:31 PM David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2024-01-08 at 19:48 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> > David writes:
> > > This forces _everybody_ to comply with American law: unilateral
> > > world
> > > order by any other name.
> >
> > It is not a uniquely USA law.  It's part of an international scheme
> > in
> > which most governments participate.
>
> Where is Paypal based?
> Then it operates under American law, doesn't it?
>
> > > A directly attributed, undisguised donation to an Assange fund, or
> > > any
> > > other (because this applied to more than one isolated case) does
> > > not
> > > qualify as `money-laundering'.
> >
> > I didn't say that it did.  I said that preventing "money laundering"
> > is
> > what the scheme *purports* to do.
>
> And I'm saying the KYC procedure (in any country) doesn't apply to a
> situation where both the donor and recipient of a financial process are
> openly declared.
> What's to know?
> Essence of red herring.
>
> >
> > > Yes, we definitely need something better than Paypal.
> >
> > I don't like PayPal either but you won't find any way to do
> > international transactions without dealing with obnoxious
> > regulations.
>
> Ummmm, yes there are,
> But I'm not about to openly advertise my modes of transaction here.
> They do exist, they are not dishonest, they are not hard to discern, or
> difficult to put into play, either.
>  I merely move my money (emphasis on `my money') to where I require it
> to be.
> No obnoxious regulations in evidence.

Is actually fiat currency. It stopped being money backed by gold when
Nixon took the US off the gold standard. The Bretton Woods Agreement
was working well until that day in 1971.

After 1971 in the US, the wife had to go to work because one income
was not enough for household goods and savings. The next decade or so
that followed, the wife continued to work but people stopped saving
because there was not enough money in the household. And a couple
decades later, two people working with no savings is not enough.
Families are borrowing money and living off credit cards. We are now
in the end game of what Nixon set in motion.

US currency is now a ponzi scheme. I think it is in its end game
because of consumer debt. The US Federal Reserve creates money in
response to debt. With consumers saturated with debt, consumers cannot
take on more debt. The Fed will not be able to print money without
adverse effects, like inflation. (Prices nearly doubled for some goods
in the last few years due to Covid-19. Imagine what's going to happen
if hyper inflation starts running its course due to worthless paper
flooding the markets).

When the dollar collapses, other currencies that peg to the USD will
be in for a wild ride.

You should have some gold and silver in your portfolio to get you
through 6 to 9 months of hardship. I hope the time will be enough to
improve the system. Shareholder Capitalism has eaten just about all
its young. There's nothing left to feed on. It needs to change.

Maybe Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies will come into their own at this time.

Jeff

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#265719

Hello,

On Tue, Jan 09, 2024 at 11:30:52AM +1000, David wrote:
> Perhaps the Debian Project, represented in the media as `an
> unaccountable collective of hackers', will be next.

Debian doesn't sell any products or services and doesn't take
donations; the organisations that take donations on Debian's behalf
are accountable. They file their tax returns etc.

This thread has already descended into a "debate" on the gold
standard and American imperialism. It would be great if people could
try to keep it at least vaguely related to Debian.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#265721

On 1/9/24 12:53, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Tue, Jan 09, 2024 at 11:30:52AM +1000, David wrote:
>> Perhaps the Debian Project, represented in the media as `an
>> unaccountable collective of hackers', will be next.
> 
> Debian doesn't sell any products or services and doesn't take
> donations; the organisations that take donations on Debian's behalf
> are accountable. They file their tax returns etc.

That is probably true. But does it have to be so secretive?

> This thread has already descended into a "debate" on the gold
> standard and American imperialism. It would be great if people could
> try to keep it at least vaguely related to Debian.

I don't think that extending of the ladder up the side of the hog that 
feeds the people who do the work, is off topic. From the remarks my 
original post has generated, it is obvious we could build that ladder 
easier w/o paypal blocking the way to take their %... TANSTAAFL.
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#265722

On Tue, 2024-01-09 at 17:53 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Tue, Jan 09, 2024 at 11:30:52AM +1000, David wrote:
> > Perhaps the Debian Project, represented in the media as `an
> > unaccountable collective of hackers', will be next.
> 
> Debian doesn't sell any products or services and doesn't take
> donations; the organisations that take donations on Debian's behalf
> are accountable. They file their tax returns etc.

Right.
So Debian takes donations.
Whether that be directly or indirectly would appear to be immaterial.


> This thread has already descended into a "debate" on the gold
> standard and American imperialism. It would be great if people could
> try to keep it at least vaguely related to Debian.

This `debate' was over some time ago.
The conclusion being, because of various factors, that something better
than Paypal was required.
You would appear to be the only one perpetuating it.
Can we look forward to it being put to bed now?

> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 

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#265691

On 1/8/24 18:11, John Hasler wrote:
> David writes:
>> The way they would withhold payments as not going to approved entities
>> by the powers that be has forced me into believing they are more of an
>> information gathering utility disguised as a financial one.  If you
>> undertake to act as a medium in a financial transaction, that's what
>> you do.
> 
> They have to comply with the (vaguely worded) law if they want to stay
> in business.  I doubt that they like it any more than we do.
> 
>> You don't put through some transactions and not others, simply because
>> they are heading to an Assange fund or some other entity not currently
>> approved of by American foreign policy preference.
> 
> The "know your customer" regulations are by no means a US-only
> phenomena.  It's supposed to prevent "money laundering".
> 
My point is that these things are mostly subjective and not stated in 
the TOS. If not stated in the TOS, its some idiotic MBA's idea of 
security.  That little personal preference actually cost us around 
250,000 USD, you can't bill for a commercial that didn't play on the 
contracted schedule. IMO they do not get a 2nd chance at such idiocy. 
That card # was a company card & had a good million or more behind it.

I've sold a couple things on ebay, yonks ago, but have never collected a 
penny because that site has never been given to me so I could arrange a 
transfer to my bank. It's just pocket change so it is no big deal to me, 
but that is just more evidence that data collection is more important to 
paypal than shuffling money around to allow honest businesses to survive 
in a hostile environment. $10 I don't care, a quarter mill that might 
affect my future paycheck? Unforgivable.

Take care, stay warm and well all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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