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Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

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  Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-14 00:00 +0100
    Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-11-14 00:10 +0100
    Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2023-11-14 00:10 +0100
      Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-14 07:20 +0100
        Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-15 04:00 +0100
          Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-15 08:40 +0100
            Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-15 14:50 +0100
              Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-15 22:00 +0100
                Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-15 23:50 +0100
                  Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-16 00:40 +0100
                    Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-16 01:00 +0100
      Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-14 13:40 +0100
    Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-14 00:50 +0100
    Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-14 02:10 +0100
      Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-11-16 02:10 +0100
        Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-16 03:20 +0100
          Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-11-16 03:40 +0100
        Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-11-16 08:50 +0100
          Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-11-16 09:00 +0100
            Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-11-16 19:40 +0100
          Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-16 16:50 +0100
            Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router basti <mailinglist@unix-solution.de> - 2023-11-16 17:10 +0100
            Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-11-16 19:30 +0100
    Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2023-11-14 10:50 +0100
      Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router basti <mailinglist@unix-solution.de> - 2023-11-14 11:20 +0100
    Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-30 00:20 +0100
      Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-30 00:40 +0100
        Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2023-11-30 13:00 +0100
          Set UEFI boot target with Windows (was: Hardware Advice Wanted:  Router) Arno Lehmann <al@its-lehmann.de> - 2023-11-30 13:30 +0100
            Re: Set UEFI boot target with Windows Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-11-30 13:50 +0100
            Re: Set UEFI boot target with Windows (was: Hardware Advice Wanted:  Router) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2023-11-30 14:40 +0100
          Getting UEFI to boot Debian (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-12-02 18:10 +0100
      Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-12-02 18:00 +0100
        Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-12-02 20:00 +0100
          memtest86+ on UEFI (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-12-02 20:20 +0100
            Re: memtest86+ on UEFI Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-03 05:30 +0100

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#263592

>> My current favourites are RK3588 based CPU SBC devices which have an
>> exceptionally fast set of CPUs, high speed networking, and options for
>> Debian or Ubuntu or OpenWRT or Armbian.
>
> Are these the usual SBC setup where you have to run the vendor kernel,
> plus possibly other custom bits, or would pure Debian including kernel
> run on them?

A good source of info to find out is to check the device tree files in
the official kernel source code:

    https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/arch/arm64/boot/dts/rockchip

you'll see lots of rk3588 boards are supported and if you look inside
that board's `.dts` file you can see which parts of its hardware are
actually supported by the vanilla kernel (tho this is not written in
natural language, so if you're not familiar with the technical details
of devicetree files it can be somewhat challenging to interpret, YMMV).

> I'm currently running a Globalscale SheevaPlug and a DreamPlugs but
> Debian support for the old ARM architecture is likely to end soon.
> (Dropping it seems to come up each release, but so far they're still
> releasing for it.)

If these can run the `armhf` port you should be fine for a few
more years.  For `armel` the writing is on the wall, tho.


        Stefan

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#263593

On 16.11.23 16:49, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> My current favourites are RK3588 based CPU SBC devices which have an
>>> exceptionally fast set of CPUs, high speed networking, and options for
>>> Debian or Ubuntu or OpenWRT or Armbian.
>>
>> Are these the usual SBC setup where you have to run the vendor kernel,
>> plus possibly other custom bits, or would pure Debian including kernel
>> run on them?
> 
> A good source of info to find out is to check the device tree files in
> the official kernel source code:
> 
>      https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/arch/arm64/boot/dts/rockchip
> 
> you'll see lots of rk3588 boards are supported and if you look inside
> that board's `.dts` file you can see which parts of its hardware are
> actually supported by the vanilla kernel (tho this is not written in
> natural language, so if you're not familiar with the technical details
> of devicetree files it can be somewhat challenging to interpret, YMMV).
> 
>> I'm currently running a Globalscale SheevaPlug and a DreamPlugs but
>> Debian support for the old ARM architecture is likely to end soon.
>> (Dropping it seems to come up each release, but so far they're still
>> releasing for it.)
> 
> If these can run the `armhf` port you should be fine for a few
> more years.  For `armel` the writing is on the wall, tho.
> 
> 
>          Stefan
>

I wouldn't recommend an ARM CPU. amd64 architecture is also quite energy 
efficient and you may avoid a lot of trouble.

My thinclient needs around 10W (with 1x 2.5" SSD and 1x 2.5" HDD)

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#263602

On Thu, 2023-11-16 at 10:49 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > 
> 
> > I'm currently running a Globalscale SheevaPlug and a DreamPlugs but
> > Debian support for the old ARM architecture is likely to end soon.
> > (Dropping it seems to come up each release, but so far they're
> > still
> > releasing for it.)
> 
> If these can run the `armhf` port you should be fine for a few
> more years.  For `armel` the writing is on the wall, tho.

They're armel. ARMv5 Thumb mode only.

-- 
Tixy

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#263519

Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> writes:

> My FIT-PCs that provide network services are getting old, and i386
> Linux is slowly fading away. So I would like to replace them with a
> router/gateway computer.

I built a router with an APUD4D board and case from
pcengines.ch. They're going out of production but are currently
available.

I put Debian on mine and love it to bits. It's been quite some fun too
setting up failover via LTE and enabling IPv6 using 6rd tunneling but
that stuff is extra.

To your specs, there's no video, just serial console and ethernet of
course. Wifi and LTE are optional, storage is mSATA SSD. From memory,
power consumption is about 9W, the case is used as a heat sink to
dissipate that.

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#263520

On 14.11.23 10:45, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> writes:
> 
>> My FIT-PCs that provide network services are getting old, and i386
>> Linux is slowly fading away. So I would like to replace them with a
>> router/gateway computer.
> 
> I built a router with an APUD4D board and case from
> pcengines.ch. They're going out of production but are currently
> available.
> 
> I put Debian on mine and love it to bits. It's been quite some fun too
> setting up failover via LTE and enabling IPv6 using 6rd tunneling but
> that stuff is extra.
> 
> To your specs, there's no video, just serial console and ethernet of
> course. Wifi and LTE are optional, storage is mSATA SSD. From memory,
> power consumption is about 9W, the case is used as a heat sink to
> dissipate that.
> 

I have a Fujitsu Futro s920 (the model with 2x2.2 GHz)
with a 4-port Gbit NIC and a Mini PCIE to SATA adapter for RAID
and 16GB RAM.

Round about 170€ without HDD/SSD

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#263959

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 15:57:28 -0700
Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> wrote:

> My FIT-PCs that provide network services are getting old, and i386
> Linux is slowly fading away. So I would like to replace them with a
> router/gateway computer.

Thank you all for much useful advice. I ended up with an ACEMAGIC T8
Plus. https://www.acemagic.com/collections/minipcs/products/t8plus

Debian 12 installed nicely, with one glitch. I had shrunk the Windows
partition in order to install Debian, but left it otherwise intact.
However the thing insisted on booting to Windows.

To fix it, do the following:

To make the grub bootloader active after installing Linux and GRUB, in
the firmware:

During boot, hit escape or delete to get into the firmware.

Security -> Secure Boot -> Enabled

Boot -> UEFI BBS Priorities -> Debian boot option

Save & Exit -> Save Changes and Exit

I now get GRUB, which will boot either Debian or Windows.

Note: Memtest86 does not appear to work. I believe that is a known
problem with UEFI machines.

I am now busy moving network service over to the new machine.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#263960

On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 6:17 PM Charles Curley
<charlescurley@charlescurley.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 15:57:28 -0700
> Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> wrote:
>
> > My FIT-PCs that provide network services are getting old, and i386
> > Linux is slowly fading away. So I would like to replace them with a
> > router/gateway computer.
>
> Thank you all for much useful advice. I ended up with an ACEMAGIC T8
> Plus. https://www.acemagic.com/collections/minipcs/products/t8plus
>
> Debian 12 installed nicely, with one glitch. I had shrunk the Windows
> partition in order to install Debian, but left it otherwise intact.
> However the thing insisted on booting to Windows.
>
> To fix it, do the following:
>
> To make the grub bootloader active after installing Linux and GRUB, in
> the firmware:
>
> During boot, hit escape or delete to get into the firmware.
>
> Security -> Secure Boot -> Enabled
>
> Boot -> UEFI BBS Priorities -> Debian boot option
>
> Save & Exit -> Save Changes and Exit
>
> I now get GRUB, which will boot either Debian or Windows.
>
> Note: Memtest86 does not appear to work. I believe that is a known
> problem with UEFI machines.
>
> I am now busy moving network service over to the new machine.

As I understand things, a well functioning UEFI system does not need
to use GRUB. The entries for Linux and Windows will be in the UEFI
boot menu, and you can boot directly using EFI variables.

Jeff

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#263984

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:34:30 -0500
Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:

 
> 
> As I understand things, a well functioning UEFI system does not need
> to use GRUB. The entries for Linux and Windows will be in the UEFI
> boot menu, and you can boot directly using EFI variables.
> 

It's the 'well functioning' that is sometimes a problem. I have a
netbook which, left to its own devices, will always boot to Windows,
and cannot be made to boot to anything else from the UEFI part of
whatever we're supposed to call the BIOS these days. It does not honour
DefaultBoot, always resetting it to Windows, but for some reason does
honour NextBoot. So once Linux is running, a script sets NextBoot to
grub. Unfortunately, there's no simple way to set NextBoot from
Windows, so after the odd occasion when I run that, I need a rescue USB
to get back to grub.

There seems to be a lot of problems with the EFI commands operating
BIOSes properly, so I wonder if good old MS requires compliant
manufacturers to get it wrong deliberately.

For the curious, I occasionally need to run Microchip MPLAB, the old
pre-Java version which doesn't do Linux. It only just about does
Windows... I used to think Serif software was buggy until I tried
Microchip stuff.

-- 
Joe

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#263986 — Set UEFI boot target with Windows (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router)

Bit of a digression here, probably better not to pursue *this* on the 
mailing list, but...

Am 30.11.2023 um 12:52 schrieb Joe:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:34:30 -0500
> Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   
>>
>> As I understand things, a well functioning UEFI system does not need
>> to use GRUB. The entries for Linux and Windows will be in the UEFI
>> boot menu, and you can boot directly using EFI variables.
>>
> 
> It's the 'well functioning' that is sometimes a problem. I have a
> netbook which, left to its own devices, will always boot to Windows,
> and cannot be made to boot to anything else from the UEFI part of
> whatever we're supposed to call the BIOS these days. It does not honour
> DefaultBoot, always resetting it to Windows, but for some reason does
> honour NextBoot. So once Linux is running, a script sets NextBoot to
> grub. Unfortunately, there's no simple way to set NextBoot from
> Windows,

... have you ever tried

bcdedit /bootsequence <id>

In general, the built-in help of bcdedit is not bad, needs a bit of 
patience, though.

And of course we lack the flexibility of tools such as awk or sed on 
Windows, to automate setting things and still remain flexible :-)

On a particular system, with rather static setup, hard-coding a single 
bcdedit call and automatically execute that should be feasible, though.

Give it a try if you haven't done yet!

> There seems to be a lot of problems with the EFI commands operating
> BIOSes properly, so I wonder if good old MS requires compliant
> manufacturers to get it wrong deliberately.

Well...

... probably yes. But that's MS and their hardware partners for you. 
It's getting better the more MS loses interest in actually selling Windows.


Cheers,

Arno

-- 
Arno Lehmann

IT-Service Lehmann
Sandstr. 6, 49080 Osnabrück

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#263988 — Re: Set UEFI boot target with Windows

On 30/11/2023 19:27, Arno Lehmann wrote:
> Am 30.11.2023 um 12:52 schrieb Joe:
>> I have a
>> netbook which, left to its own devices, will always boot to Windows,
>> and cannot be made to boot to anything else from the UEFI part of
>> whatever we're supposed to call the BIOS these days.
> 
> ... have you ever tried
> 
> bcdedit /bootsequence <id>

I have read that early UEFI versions of some vendors had hardcoded path 
to windows loader. Another variant is loader installed to "removable" 
path EFI/Boot (in additional or instead of EFI/microsoft) and firmware 
tries EFI/Boot with higher priority.

 From linux:

     efibootmgr -v
     ls -l /boot/efi/EFI/{boot,debian,microsoft}

I have a decade-old HP laptop that boots from EFI/Boot. (Or using a 
custom boot entry with path to shimx64.efi created from the firmware 
setup menu that is less convenient.) It has never had windows installed 
though.

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#263990 — Re: Set UEFI boot target with Windows (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router)

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 13:27:59 +0100
Arno Lehmann <al@its-lehmann.de> wrote:


> 
> ... have you ever tried
> 
> bcdedit /bootsequence <id>
> 
> In general, the built-in help of bcdedit is not bad, needs a bit of 
> patience, though.
> 
> And of course we lack the flexibility of tools such as awk or sed on 
> Windows, to automate setting things and still remain flexible :-)
> 
> On a particular system, with rather static setup, hard-coding a
> single bcdedit call and automatically execute that should be
> feasible, though.
> 
> Give it a try if you haven't done yet!
> 

I have used it in the past, when Windows moved away from boot.ini. That
was probably XP, so about twenty years ago.

I believe using it to write currently requires booting to Safe Mode,
and if I've got to reboot, it might as well be to the Debian install
disc/USB. Having got to chroot, I just use the up-arrow and it remembers
the efibootmgr command I used last time.

I haven't looked for a while, if it's possible to set NextBoot from
normal Windows it would be worth doing.

-- 
Joe

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#264112 — Getting UEFI to boot Debian (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router)

> For the curious, I occasionally need to run Microchip MPLAB, the old
> pre-Java version which doesn't do Linux. It only just about does
> Windows... I used to think Serif software was buggy until I tried
> Microchip stuff.

Setting it up might take some work (especially if you need it to have
direct access to some of your hardware) but running it inside a VM
might save you a fair bit of trouble in the long run.


        Stefan

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#264111

> Note: Memtest86 does not appear to work. I believe that is a known
> problem with UEFI machines.

AFAIK the current memtest86+ (not to be confused with memtest86, which
is proprietary) claims to work fine on UEFI.
IIUC the one in oldstable doesn't OTOH.


        Stefan

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#264114

On Sat, 02 Dec 2023 11:58:11 -0500
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> > Note: Memtest86 does not appear to work. I believe that is a known
> > problem with UEFI machines.  
> 
> AFAIK the current memtest86+ (not to be confused with memtest86, which
> is proprietary) claims to work fine on UEFI.
> IIUC the one in oldstable doesn't OTOH.
> 
> 
>         Stefan
> 

Interesting. I have memtest86+ 6.10-4, for amd64, on the machine. Maybe
I'll try a USB stick version.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#264115 — memtest86+ on UEFI (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router)

> Interesting.  I have memtest86+ 6.10-4, for amd64, on the machine.

Then AFAIK it is not a known problem (IOW, it should work).

> Maybe I'll try a USB stick version.

IIRC the memtest86+ Debian package comes with .iso files which you can
(manually) put into /boot/images/ and which boot in a slightly different
way than the image files installed there by default, so you could try
that as ell.
Also upstream has a slightly more recent release.


        Stefan

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#264131 — Re: memtest86+ on UEFI

On 03/12/2023 02:15, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Interesting.  I have memtest86+ 6.10-4, for amd64, on the machine.
> 
> Then AFAIK it is not a known problem (IOW, it should work).

The package contains /boot/memtest86+x64.efi, so it is intended to work 
with UEFI. I am less sure that it can work when secure boot is enabled. 
Perhaps /usr/share/doc/memtest86+/README.Debian will shed some light on 
the issue.

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