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vanilla to sid

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  vanilla to sid Michael Thompson <kneedragon1962@gmail.com> - 2023-11-25 17:40 +0100
    Re: vanilla to sid "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-25 18:30 +0100
    Re: vanilla to sid Geoff <unit735@bigpond.com> - 2023-11-26 02:40 +0100

#263832 — vanilla to sid

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Dear Debian,

I have sent a few emails already, but I suspect I've been talking to the
wrong person...
I'm sure there's a way (on gmail) to forward an email I've sent, to an
additional recipient, but for the life of me, I can't see it.
This is clumsy, but so am I.
--------------------
Dear Debian,
Hello guys, sorry to bring this up and bother you again, but ....
Using sid with the aarnet.edu.au mirror, and an update took out my
networking. That was about 14 hours ago.
No way to get updates or fixes... leave it a while, and reinstall ~ from
the 12.2 netinstall.
After the 3rd or 4th, I started doing a VirtualBox clone of a base Debian
stable, and then playing with that. Easier than doing the whole install &
upgrade.
First attempt, I set the aarnet mirror up in sources.list  for install, but
changed it to
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
~ and that's all. The problem persists. It isn't a problem with the
Australian mirror. It has been going on for nearly a day now.
If you would like (let me know) I will clone it again and do the
dist-upgrade to full sid and then investigate as you suggest, but ... For
now, I'm just letting you know that sid has networking that's broken. I
don't know what is broken, but it takes out your whole networking and
network cards / adaptors.

Yours respectfully, Mike
----------
Dear Debian,

Minor update. I made a clone, and I added the backports repo, but not the
sid.
That's working fine.
-------------------
mike@debian:~$ sudo apt update
[sudo] password for mike:
Hit:1 http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/debian bookworm InRelease
Hit:2 http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/debian bookworm-updates InRelease
Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports InRelease [56.5 kB]
Hit:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease
Fetched 56.5 kB in 1s (103 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
All packages are up to date.
mike@debian:~$ uname -a
Linux debian 6.5.0-0.deb12.1-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian
6.5.3-1~bpo12+1 (2023-10-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux
mike@debian:~$
------------
Repeat, there is no issue with the networking if you stick to the
backports, but if you do a full dist-upgrade to sid, all your networking
stops and most of your networking tools seem to be missing. The things you
normally do to investigate, like ifconfig ~ return words to the effect that
command is not recognised.

Respectfully,
Mike
--------------------
Dear Debian,

Thank you for your patience.
Minor update.
I have been fiddling, and I found a way to make it work.
Then I thought maybe the Debian team simply fixed it at their end, and the
'problem' no longer exists. So I made another clone of vanilla Debian and I
tried the normal update / upgrade to sid, and that ran through with the
exact same result as before. We have a 'tasting' clone that has no working
network.
So ~ How did I make it work?
Start with the modify /etc/apt/sources.list. change that to read sid rather
than bookworm, and remove all the other lines.
sudo apt update
sudo apt --list upgradeable
Now, start at the bottom of the list. write sudo apt install, then go copy
the package name of the item to be upgraded. Stop at the '/unstable' .
Paste that after the apt install. Don't stop at one, there's about 800
packages to upgrade... Do them in batches of roughly a dozen. try to keep
things together that obviously belong together ~ eg, all the Mate desktop
stuff can go through in one install.
I did start by updating the kernel, and build-essential. Then I updated the
network-manager because I thought that was maybe the problem.
Reboot after every few updates, update them about 10 ~ 12 at a time.... it
does take a  while, but after a mid point, the numbers start to come down
fairly quickly because of things brought in as dependencies and such.
If you would like me to get and send you my bash history, so you can see
exactly how I bumbled my way through it, let me know. It did take well over
an hour....

*** This is from a sid upgrade that has not worked. This is the state it's
in now. ***

mike@debian:~$ ip adr show
Object "adr" is unknown, try "ip help".
mike@debian:~$ ip addr show
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group
default qlen 1000
    link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
    inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet6 ::1/128 scope host noprefixroute
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: enp0s3: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN group
default qlen 1000
    link/ether 08:00:27:8a:8d:f9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
mike@debian:~$


=========
*** This is from the upgrade I just did. ***
mike@debian:~$ ip addr show
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group
default qlen 1000
    link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
    inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet6 ::1/128 scope host noprefixroute
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: enp0s3: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state
UP group default qlen 1000
    link/ether 08:00:27:8a:8d:f9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
    inet 10.0.2.15/24 brd 10.0.2.255 scope global dynamic noprefixroute
enp0s3
       valid_lft 86357sec preferred_lft 86357sec
    inet6 fe80::a00:27ff:fe8a:8df9/64 scope link noprefixroute
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
mike@debian:~$
=======
The bash history of the one that worked, that would be a bit long, but let
me know if you want a copy.

I hope I am being a contributor, not simply noise & distraction.

Yours respectfully, Mike.
-------------------
Dear Debian,

Nobody seems to be talking to me...
I have done this several times now, in new virtual machines. I have managed
to streamline the process a bit.
======================
sudo apt install mate-tweak
mate-tweak
sudo apt install neofetch
neofetch
sudo apt update ; sudo apt full-upgrade
sudo apt update
sudo apt update ; sudo apt full-upgrade
sudo pluma
-------------------------
opened sources.list
/etc/apt/sources.list and add the following:

*deb http://deb.debian.org/debian <http://deb.debian.org/debian> sid main
contrib non-freedeb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian
<http://deb.debian.org/debian> sid main contrib non-free*
deleted everything else, only 2 lines in the file
-------------------------
sudo apt update
sudo apt list --upgradable
sudo apt install linux-image-amd64 build-essential
sudo reboot now
sudo apt update
sudo apt list --upgradable
sudo apt install perl perl-tk perl-modules-5.36 perl-base network-manager
network-manager-gnome netpbm ncurses-term ncurses-bin ncurses-base
sudo apt install libteam-utils iptables network-manager-openconnect-gnome
network-manager-openvpn-gnome network-manager-vpnc-gnome
network-manager-pptp-gnome perl-doc libterm-readline-gnu-perl
libterm-readline-perl-perl libtap-harness-archive-perl
sudo apt update
sudo apt list --upgradable
sudo apt install mawk media-types mesa-va-drivers mesa-vdpau-drivers
mesa-vulkan-drivers modemmanager mount nftables ocl-icd-libopencl1
openssh-client
sudo reboot now
sudo apt update
sudo apt dist-upgrade
sudo reboot now
------------
What I got first, was the kernel and build-essential package.
Reboot
Next I went for the modem manager and anything I could see that related to
networking – like nf-tables & modem-manager openssh-client
Reboot
Next ~ cross fingers and go for the full dist-upgrade.
That worked, and the networking survived and is now working fine.
This is a very significant improvement on the 1st effort, which involved
about 17 reboots and manually installing things about ten at a time, from
bottom to top, and removing anything that caused objections from apt.
That’s with a reboot after each cycle. That’s an extremely slow & tedious
method, but it works.
This is also slow & tedious, but it is a damn site faster & easier than the
first successful attempt.
Don’t even ask about the unsuccessful attempts.
===========

I hope this is helpful ~
Mike

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#263836

On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 02:22:16AM +1000, Michael Thompson wrote:
> Dear Debian,
> 
> I have sent a few emails already, but I suspect I've been talking to the
> wrong person...
> I'm sure there's a way (on gmail) to forward an email I've sent, to an
> additional recipient, but for the life of me, I can't see it.
> This is clumsy, but so am I.
> --------------------
> Dear Debian,
> Hello guys, sorry to bring this up and bother you again, but ....
> Using sid with the aarnet.edu.au mirror, and an update took out my
> networking. That was about 14 hours ago.
> No way to get updates or fixes... leave it a while, and reinstall ~ from
> the 12.2 netinstall.
> After the 3rd or 4th, I started doing a VirtualBox clone of a base Debian
> stable, and then playing with that. Easier than doing the whole install &
> upgrade.
> First attempt, I set the aarnet mirror up in sources.list  for install, but
> changed it to
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free
> ~ and that's all. The problem persists. It isn't a problem with the
> Australian mirror. It has been going on for nearly a day now.
> If you would like (let me know) I will clone it again and do the
> dist-upgrade to full sid and then investigate as you suggest, but ... For
> now, I'm just letting you know that sid has networking that's broken. I
> don't know what is broken, but it takes out your whole networking and
> network cards / adaptors.
> 

Check your /etc/apt/sources.list - it has changed in Bookworm to allow for
non free firmware. If you have no firmware then it wifi might be impacted?
Read the release notes.

Update from a minimal 12.2 -> testing and testing -> unstable and then
add extra packages.

In general, if you work with sid, you are absolutely expected to be able
to support yourself - there may be periodic major breakage.

If it breaks, you really do get to keep both pieces :) 

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater
> Yours respectfully, Mike
> ----------
> Dear Debian,
> 
> Minor update. I made a clone, and I added the backports repo, but not the
> sid.
> That's working fine.
> -------------------
> mike@debian:~$ sudo apt update
> [sudo] password for mike:
> Hit:1 http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/debian bookworm InRelease
> Hit:2 http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/debian bookworm-updates InRelease
> Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports InRelease [56.5 kB]
> Hit:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease
> Fetched 56.5 kB in 1s (103 kB/s)
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> All packages are up to date.
> mike@debian:~$ uname -a
> Linux debian 6.5.0-0.deb12.1-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian
> 6.5.3-1~bpo12+1 (2023-10-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> mike@debian:~$
> ------------
> Repeat, there is no issue with the networking if you stick to the
> backports, but if you do a full dist-upgrade to sid, all your networking
> stops and most of your networking tools seem to be missing. The things you
> normally do to investigate, like ifconfig ~ return words to the effect that
> command is not recognised.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Mike
> --------------------
> Dear Debian,
> 
> Thank you for your patience.
> Minor update.
> I have been fiddling, and I found a way to make it work.
> Then I thought maybe the Debian team simply fixed it at their end, and the
> 'problem' no longer exists. So I made another clone of vanilla Debian and I
> tried the normal update / upgrade to sid, and that ran through with the
> exact same result as before. We have a 'tasting' clone that has no working
> network.
> So ~ How did I make it work?
> Start with the modify /etc/apt/sources.list. change that to read sid rather
> than bookworm, and remove all the other lines.
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt --list upgradeable
> Now, start at the bottom of the list. write sudo apt install, then go copy
> the package name of the item to be upgraded. Stop at the '/unstable' .
> Paste that after the apt install. Don't stop at one, there's about 800
> packages to upgrade... Do them in batches of roughly a dozen. try to keep
> things together that obviously belong together ~ eg, all the Mate desktop
> stuff can go through in one install.
> I did start by updating the kernel, and build-essential. Then I updated the
> network-manager because I thought that was maybe the problem.
> Reboot after every few updates, update them about 10 ~ 12 at a time.... it
> does take a  while, but after a mid point, the numbers start to come down
> fairly quickly because of things brought in as dependencies and such.
> If you would like me to get and send you my bash history, so you can see
> exactly how I bumbled my way through it, let me know. It did take well over
> an hour....
> 
> *** This is from a sid upgrade that has not worked. This is the state it's
> in now. ***
> 
> mike@debian:~$ ip adr show
> Object "adr" is unknown, try "ip help".
> mike@debian:~$ ip addr show
> 1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group
> default qlen 1000
>     link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
>     inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
>     inet6 ::1/128 scope host noprefixroute
>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 2: enp0s3: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN group
> default qlen 1000
>     link/ether 08:00:27:8a:8d:f9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> mike@debian:~$
> 
> 
> =========
> *** This is from the upgrade I just did. ***
> mike@debian:~$ ip addr show
> 1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group
> default qlen 1000
>     link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
>     inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
>     inet6 ::1/128 scope host noprefixroute
>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 2: enp0s3: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state
> UP group default qlen 1000
>     link/ether 08:00:27:8a:8d:f9 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>     inet 10.0.2.15/24 brd 10.0.2.255 scope global dynamic noprefixroute
> enp0s3
>        valid_lft 86357sec preferred_lft 86357sec
>     inet6 fe80::a00:27ff:fe8a:8df9/64 scope link noprefixroute
>        valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> mike@debian:~$
> =======
> The bash history of the one that worked, that would be a bit long, but let
> me know if you want a copy.
> 
> I hope I am being a contributor, not simply noise & distraction.
> 
> Yours respectfully, Mike.
> -------------------
> Dear Debian,
> 
> Nobody seems to be talking to me...
> I have done this several times now, in new virtual machines. I have managed
> to streamline the process a bit.
> ======================
> sudo apt install mate-tweak
> mate-tweak
> sudo apt install neofetch
> neofetch
> sudo apt update ; sudo apt full-upgrade
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt update ; sudo apt full-upgrade
> sudo pluma
> -------------------------
> opened sources.list
> /etc/apt/sources.list and add the following:
> 
> *deb http://deb.debian.org/debian <http://deb.debian.org/debian> sid main
> contrib non-freedeb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian
> <http://deb.debian.org/debian> sid main contrib non-free*
> deleted everything else, only 2 lines in the file
> -------------------------
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt list --upgradable
> sudo apt install linux-image-amd64 build-essential
> sudo reboot now
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt list --upgradable
> sudo apt install perl perl-tk perl-modules-5.36 perl-base network-manager
> network-manager-gnome netpbm ncurses-term ncurses-bin ncurses-base
> sudo apt install libteam-utils iptables network-manager-openconnect-gnome
> network-manager-openvpn-gnome network-manager-vpnc-gnome
> network-manager-pptp-gnome perl-doc libterm-readline-gnu-perl
> libterm-readline-perl-perl libtap-harness-archive-perl
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt list --upgradable
> sudo apt install mawk media-types mesa-va-drivers mesa-vdpau-drivers
> mesa-vulkan-drivers modemmanager mount nftables ocl-icd-libopencl1
> openssh-client
> sudo reboot now
> sudo apt update
> sudo apt dist-upgrade
> sudo reboot now
> ------------
> What I got first, was the kernel and build-essential package.
> Reboot
> Next I went for the modem manager and anything I could see that related to
> networking – like nf-tables & modem-manager openssh-client
> Reboot
> Next ~ cross fingers and go for the full dist-upgrade.
> That worked, and the networking survived and is now working fine.
> This is a very significant improvement on the 1st effort, which involved
> about 17 reboots and manually installing things about ten at a time, from
> bottom to top, and removing anything that caused objections from apt.
> That’s with a reboot after each cycle. That’s an extremely slow & tedious
> method, but it works.
> This is also slow & tedious, but it is a damn site faster & easier than the
> first successful attempt.
> Don’t even ask about the unsuccessful attempts.
> ===========
> 
> I hope this is helpful ~
> Mike

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#263843

Michael Thompson wrote:
> Dear Debian,
> 
> I have sent a few emails already, but I suspect I've been talking to the wrong person...
> I'm sure there's a way (on gmail) to forward an email I've sent, to an additional recipient, but for the life of me, I can't see it.
> This is clumsy, but so am I.
> --------------------
> Dear Debian,
> Hello guys, sorry to bring this up and bother you again, but ....
> Using sid with the aarnet.edu.au <http://aarnet.edu.au> mirror, and an update took out my networking. That was about 14 hours ago.
> No way to get updates or fixes... leave it a while, and reinstall ~ from the 12.2 netinstall.
> After the 3rd or 4th, I started doing a VirtualBox clone of a base Debian stable, and then playing with that. Easier than doing the whole install & upgrade.
> First attempt, I set the aarnet mirror up in sources.list  for install, but changed it to
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian <http://deb.debian.org/debian> sid main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian <http://deb.debian.org/debian> sid main contrib non-free
> ~ and that's all. The problem persists. It isn't a problem with the Australian mirror. It has been going on for nearly a day now.
> If you would like (let me know) I will clone it again and do the dist-upgrade to full sid and then investigate as you suggest, but ... For now, I'm just letting you know that sid has networking that's broken. I don't know what is broken, but it takes out your whole networking and network cards / adaptors.
> 
> Yours respectfully, Mike

Hi Mike,

I'm on sid and if I was to do a dist-upgrade now it will remove network-manager:

The following packages will be REMOVED:
   network-manager plasma-nm wireshark-qt

So I wouldn't do a dist-upgrade right now :)

You have to be careful and watch what it's telling you.

Regards,
Geoff

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