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Evolution email (problem?)

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  Evolution email (problem?) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-26 17:10 +0200
    Re: Evolution email (problem?) Patrick Wiseman <pwiseman@gmail.com> - 2023-04-26 17:20 +0200
      Re: Evolution email (problem?) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-26 23:20 +0200
    Re: Evolution email (problem?) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 04:30 +0200
      Re: Evolution email (problem?) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 16:40 +0200
        Re: Evolution email (problem?) Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-27 17:30 +0200
          Re: Evolution email (problem?) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 22:40 +0200
        Re: Evolution email (problem?) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 17:30 +0200
          Re: Evolution email (problem?) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 18:20 +0200
            Re: Evolution email (problem?) Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-04-27 18:30 +0200
              Re: Evolution email (problem?) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 22:00 +0200
            Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-04-28 19:10 +0200
              Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-30 17:30 +0200
                Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-04-30 19:30 +0200
                  Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-30 20:50 +0200
                    Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-05-01 01:40 +0200
                  Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-05-01 00:30 +0200
                    Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-05-01 00:40 +0200
                      Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-05-01 06:00 +0200
                    Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 08:40 +0200
                      Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-05-01 13:30 +0200
                    Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2023-05-01 14:50 +0200
                      Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2023-05-01 15:00 +0200
    Re: Evolution email (problem?) Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-04-27 18:20 +0200
      Re: Evolution email (problem?) Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2023-04-27 22:50 +0200

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#257775 — Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, May 01, 2023 at 07:38:45AM +0100, Tixy wrote:
> On Sun, 2023-04-30 at 18:24 -0400, Default User wrote:
> > It does occur to me that Evolution may use the maildir format rather
> > than the mbox format [...]

> I thought we were talking about IMAP protocol access to Google? In
> which case Evolution isn't storing email in any format [1], it's
> accessing it on a remote server [...]

Oh, goody. I only brought mbox up as an attempt to explain how such
a kind of unser interface (mark for deletion, then bulk expunge/
compact/whatyoucallit) might have developed.

After that, users might expect that kind of interface regardless of
the actual storage backend, so many mailers offer it.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#257780 — Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting)

On Sunday, April 30, 2023 06:24:14 PM Default User wrote:
> > What is 'compacting', what is it meant to do? 

The definition of compacting as I "grew up" with it (not sure where I first 
encountered it is the idea that in some applications, the act of "deleting" 
something doesn't actually delete it from the file, instead it is marked for 
deletion (and no longer visible to the user).

Compacting actually deletes that thing, and shrinks the file to avoid any 
wasted (empty") space previously used by those deleted things.

I suspect I first encountered that back in the early days of DOS based 
databases, even prior to dBase II.

-- 
rhk 

(sig revised 20230312 -- modified first paragraph, some other irrelevant 
wordsmithing)
                
| No entity has permission to use this email to train an AI. 

If you reply: snip, snip, and snip again; leave attributions; avoid HTML; 
avoid top posting; and keep it "on list".  (Oxford comma (and semi-colon) 
included at no charge.)  If you revise the topic, change the Subject: line.  
If you change the topic, start a new thread.

Writing is often meant for others to read and understand (legal documents 
excepted?) -- make it easier for your reader by various means, including 
liberal use of whitespace (short paragraphs, separated by whitespace / blank 
lines) and minimal use of (obscure?) jargon, abbreviations, acronyms, and 
references.

If someone has already responded to a question, decide whether any response 
you add will be helpful or not ...

A picture is worth a thousand words.  A video (or "audio"): not so much -- 
divide by 10 for each minute of video (or audio) or create a transcript and 
edit it to 10% of the original.

A speaker who uses ahhs, ums, or such may have a real physical or mental 
disability, or may be showing disrespect for his listeners by not properly 
preparing in advance and thinking before speaking. (That speaker might have 
been "trained" to do this by being interrupted often if he pauses.)  (Remember 
Cicero who did not have enough time to write a short missive.)

A radio (or TV) station which broadcasts speakers with high pitched voices (or 
very low pitched / gravelly voices) (which older people might not be able to 
hear properly) disrespects its listeners.   Likewise if it broadcasts 
extraneous or disturbing sounds (like gunfire or crying), or broadcasts 
speakers using their native language (with or without an overdubbed 
translation).

A person who writes a sig this long probably has issues and disrespects (and 
offends) a large number of readers. ;-)
'

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#257782 — Re: Evolution email (problem?) (IMAP, Gmail, email compacting)

Oh, I meant to add that compacting is typically useful when record (email?) 
storage is in something like an mbox file -- it saves the need to rewrite the 
file each time a single file is deleted (for example).  

On the other  hand, with storage in something like mdirr files (right name -- 
one email / record per file) it is not really relevant (unless those records / 
emails are indexed by some other indexing system that stores pointers to all 
of those records).

In (older versions?) of kmail, with mbox storage, compactiing is necessary to 
reclaim unused space after deletions, and there is an option in the context 
menu for (most) kmail folders to initiate compaction.

On Monday, May 01, 2023 08:45:15 AM rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 06:24:14 PM Default User wrote:
> > > What is 'compacting', what is it meant to do?
> 
> The definition of compacting as I "grew up" with it (not sure where I first
> encountered it is the idea that in some applications, the act of "deleting"
> something doesn't actually delete it from the file, instead it is marked
> for deletion (and no longer visible to the user).
> 
> Compacting actually deletes that thing, and shrinks the file to avoid any
> wasted (empty") space previously used by those deleted things.
> 
> I suspect I first encountered that back in the early days of DOS based
> databases, even prior to dBase II.

-- 
rhk 
        
| No entity has permission to use this email to train an AI. 

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#257667

On Wed, 2023-04-26 at 11:05 -0400, Default User wrote:
> Even if it did not work from a Live Debian session, it makes no sense
> to me that Evolution could be designed this way.  I see no good reason
> that messages can be directly deleted from any other folder, but not
> [Gmail]/All Mail.  
> 
> Does anyone have a solution, so that messages must be moved to another
> folder (if they are not also there already), just to be deleted?  Or at
> least a "good" explanation as to why Evolution appears to be designed
> this way?  

I'd be inclined to blame Gmail's quirks.

Personally, I've used Evolution since Debain 5 without issue, though
not with Gmail though. Well, except on a work laptop for a few months
until I realised it didn't behave properly (like hiding your own mails
sent to lists) so I just set up a rule for gmail to forward all mail to
proper IMAP sever (Dovecot) run by me and used that for work email.

-- 
Tixy 

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#257676

On Thu, 2023-04-27 at 17:17 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> On Wed, 2023-04-26 at 11:05 -0400, Default User wrote:
> > Even if it did not work from a Live Debian session, it makes no
> > sense
> > to me that Evolution could be designed this way.  I see no good
> > reason
> > that messages can be directly deleted from any other folder, but
> > not
> > [Gmail]/All Mail.  
> > 
> > Does anyone have a solution, so that messages must be moved to
> > another
> > folder (if they are not also there already), just to be deleted? 
> > Or at
> > least a "good" explanation as to why Evolution appears to be
> > designed
> > this way?  
> 
> I'd be inclined to blame Gmail's quirks.
> 
> Personally, I've used Evolution since Debain 5 without issue, though
> not with Gmail though. Well, except on a work laptop for a few months
> until I realised it didn't behave properly (like hiding your own
> mails
> sent to lists) so I just set up a rule for gmail to forward all mail
> to
> proper IMAP sever (Dovecot) run by me and used that for work email.
> 
> -- 
> Tixy 
> 


Hi, Tixy:

It is unfortunately a well-known "feature" of Gmail: if you send an
email message, it does not show up in your "Inbox".  You have to look
in your "Sent Mail" folder to see it.  

But hey, "It's not a bug - it's a feature!"
Right . . .

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