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Groups > linux.debian.user > #256611 > unrolled thread

Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?

Started bycoreyh@free.fr
First post2023-04-02 11:00 +0200
Last post2023-04-03 19:50 +0200
Articles 13 on this page of 133 — 33 participants

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  Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? coreyh@free.fr - 2023-04-02 11:00 +0200
    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-02 11:10 +0200
    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 11:30 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2023-04-02 11:50 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 00:20 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Steve Sobol <steve@LobosStudios.com> - 2023-04-03 00:20 +0200
    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-04-02 18:40 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-02 18:40 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 19:20 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-02 20:50 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 21:00 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 21:20 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 21:30 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-04-03 00:00 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 00:10 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Steve Sobol <steve@LobosStudios.com> - 2023-04-03 01:10 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 04:30 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 05:50 +0200
                      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-03 06:50 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-03 06:50 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-03 06:40 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 11:30 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 15:00 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-02 21:20 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 02:00 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Ken Young <ken@highwinds.cloud> - 2023-04-03 02:30 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 01:40 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 19:20 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-04-02 22:10 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 22:40 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-04-02 23:20 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 22:50 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 01:20 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-02 22:50 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2023-04-02 23:10 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? coreyh@free.fr - 2023-04-03 06:30 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-04-03 06:50 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? coreyh@free.fr - 2023-04-03 07:00 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Stanislav Vlasov <stanislav.v.v@gmail.com> - 2023-04-03 08:50 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 09:30 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-03 10:40 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Stanislav Vlasov <stanislav.v.v@gmail.com> - 2023-04-03 11:20 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-03 13:00 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-04-03 15:40 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Stanislav Vlasov <stanislav.v.v@gmail.com> - 2023-04-03 18:50 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Oliver Schoede <oliver.schode@online.de> - 2023-04-02 23:40 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 00:10 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 03:30 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-04-03 05:00 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 05:50 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-04-03 06:20 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-04 02:20 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2023-04-04 05:40 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-04-04 15:50 +0200
                      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2023-04-05 00:50 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2023-04-03 00:10 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 00:20 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 01:20 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 02:20 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Eduard Bloch <edi@gmx.de> - 2023-04-03 23:30 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Joel Roth <joelz@pobox.com> - 2023-04-04 00:30 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:20 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:00 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2023-04-08 16:30 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-08 18:30 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 18:40 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 18:50 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-04-08 19:50 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2023-04-08 21:20 +0200
                      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 21:40 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-04-09 05:40 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-04-04 04:00 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:20 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-04-08 16:50 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 17:10 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-04-11 04:20 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:30 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2023-04-05 04:10 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:50 +0200
    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-02 23:20 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2023-04-02 23:40 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 23:50 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-03 00:10 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-02 23:40 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 05:50 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 20:00 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 20:20 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-03 20:50 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 15:20 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-03 20:20 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-03 20:50 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-03 21:00 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-04-08 05:50 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 15:40 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 22:00 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-03 22:10 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 22:30 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michael <ml@hemathor.de> - 2023-04-05 12:00 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michael <ml@hemathor.de> - 2023-04-05 12:00 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-04-05 12:10 +0200
                      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-05 13:30 +0200
                        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-05 13:40 +0200
                          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-04-05 14:00 +0200
                          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-05 14:20 +0200
                        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-04-05 13:40 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-03 21:50 +0200
    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-04-03 05:10 +0200
    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-04-03 18:40 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Stanislav Vlasov <stanislav.v.v@gmail.com> - 2023-04-03 19:10 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-04-03 19:40 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 19:50 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-04-03 19:20 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 19:50 +0200
      Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-03 19:40 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-04-03 20:30 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 15:10 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-08 15:20 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 15:30 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-04-09 00:20 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? conover@panix.com (John Conover) - 2023-04-09 05:00 +0200
        Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-04-04 15:40 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-04-04 15:50 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-04-04 16:40 +0200
              Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-04-04 19:40 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-04-04 19:40 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-04-04 20:00 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-04-04 21:00 +0200
                    Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:40 +0200
                  Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:40 +0200
                Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 16:50 +0200
            Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 17:00 +0200
          Re: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 17:10 +0200
      Computer anthropology and language wars [was: Is perl still the No.1  language for sysadmin?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-04-03 19:50 +0200

Page 7 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]

#256739

FromJeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
Date2023-04-04 15:40 +0200
Message-ID<GgP3b-hj5J-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256696
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 1:31 PM Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>
> >> I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by
> >> perl. is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux?
> >
> > I am surprised this thread has not started a mini-flame war.
>
> We are working on it ...
>
> > About the best you can say is, Perl is one of the more
> > popular scripting languages. Trying to pin down the "best"
> > will fail because it is opinion based.
>
> I think the true professional should be able to read/edit both
> and be pretty fluent in at least one. (Here, by professional
> I mean in terms of skills and dedication, not necessarily
> making a living doing it.) Perl is cooler and more old-school,
> maybe ultimately more powerful and creative from what you guys
> say about it, but if you don't know either I think the ease of
> learning it, development speed, the volume of people doing it
> and available resources to help you with that online, that
> favors Python as the 1st choice.
>
> > Next, you might ask which is the best editor to use on Unix
> > & Linux. That should really stir the pot :) Emacs for
> > the win!
>
> You better believe it. It is based on Lisp!
>
> But I have respect for the Vi(m) people as well, for sure, not
> sure exactly what the currently prefered Vim-style editor
> implementation is? neovim?
>
> Here are the most popular channels on Libera right now.
> See arrows for editors, unless I missed someone.
>
> Emacs (position 16) has 854, Vim (22) has 705 and neovim (41)
> 490. However combined Vim has 1195 which would be position 6 -
> overlap not considered ...
>
> I you like that table (the enumeration), I made it with this:
>
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/enum.el [yanked last]
>
> Note the `cl-loop' at line 27 - I mentioned it earlier, CL
> functionality implemented in Elisp - and note especially the
> "unlispy" syntax - this as someone touched upon, that in Perl
> you can do the same thing in different ways - here we see
> a miniature language (the unlispy syntax, which is
> imperative/procedural in style, only better), replicating the
> behavior of another language CL, implemented by and used
> in Elisp!
>
> Still not convinced? Okay, use Vim, really, it's cool ...
>
>  1. #linux           2184
>  2. #fedora          1696
>  3. #python          1688
>  4. #libera          1577
>  5. #archlinux       1474
>  6. #ubuntu          1146
>  7. #networking      1035
>  8. ##rust            968
>  9. #ansible          894
> 10. #security         884
> 11. #gentoo           875
> 12. #bash             867
> 13. #git              857
> 14. #c                857
> 15. #postgresql       856
> 16. #emacs            854  <-- Emacs
> 17. #debian           843
> 18. ##programming     760
> 19. #go-nuts          718
> 20. #openbsd          717
> 21. #freebsd          714
> 22. #vim              705  <-- Vim
> 23. #thelounge        705
> 24. #hardware         702
> 25. #haskell          680
> 26. #wireguard        668
> 27. #weechat          649
> 28. #lobsters         623
> 29. #plasma-bigscreen 613
> 30. ##math            609
> 31. #matrix           608
> 32. #raspberrypi      580
> 33. #znc              578
> 34. #C++              573
> 35. #docker           556
> 36. #monero           530
> 37. #systemd          525
> 38. ##electronics     510
> 39. #podman           499
> 40. ##chat            495
> 41. #neovim           490  <-- neovim
> 42. #hamradio         485

Here are three more data points.

   * Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
   * Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
   * Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]

I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.

Jeff

[1] https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=emacs
[2] https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=vi
[3] https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=vim

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#256742

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2023-04-04 15:50 +0200
Message-ID<GgPcR-hj9I-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256739
> Here are three more data points.
>
>    * Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
>    * Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
>    * Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
>
> I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.

I don't know what the number of CVEs tells us about a project, but the
above additionally suffers from the fact that it's just searching for
a keyword, so for `vi` most(all?) matches are unrelated to the
famous editor.


        Stefan

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#256743

FromJeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
Date2023-04-04 16:40 +0200
Message-ID<GgPZf-hjGe-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256742
On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 9:46 AM Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
> > Here are three more data points.
> >
> >    * Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
> >    * Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
> >    * Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
> >
> > I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.
>
> I don't know what the number of CVEs tells us about a project...

I'm a big fan of, past performance is an indicator of future
expectations. Whatever is happening, it is probably going to continue
to happen, and more frequently to Vim.

Jeff

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#256749

Fromdebian-user@howorth.org.uk
Date2023-04-04 19:40 +0200
Message-ID<GgSNr-hlpk-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256743
Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 9:46 AM Stefan Monnier
> <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> >  
> > > Here are three more data points.
> > >
> > >    * Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
> > >    * Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
> > >    * Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
> > >
> > > I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.  
> >
> > I don't know what the number of CVEs tells us about a project...  
> 
> I'm a big fan of, past performance is an indicator of future
> expectations. Whatever is happening, it is probably going to continue
> to happen, and more frequently to Vim.

But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail rather
misses the point and insults him. For example, three CVEs chosen at
random from the 'vim' list:

CVE-2010-3481 	Multiple SQL injection vulnerabilities in
login.php in ApPHP PHP MicroCMS 1.0.1, when magic_quotes_gpc is
disabled, allow remote attackers to execute arbitrary SQL commands via
the (1) user_name and (2) password variables, possibly related to
include/classes/Login.php. NOTE: some of these details are obtained
from third party information. NOTE: the password vector might not be
vulnerable.

CVE-2010-2704 	Buffer overflow in HP OpenView
Network Node Manager (OV NNM) 7.51 and 7.53 allows remote attackers to
execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to nnmrptconfig.exe.

CVE-2010-2703 	Stack-based buffer overflow in the execvp_nc
function in the ov.dll module in HP OpenView Network Node Manager (OV
NNM) 7.51 and 7.53, when running on Windows, allows remote attackers to
execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to webappmon.exe. 

FWIW, the word SQL appears 127 times in the 'vim' CVEs, and the word
'vim' doesn't appear in most so I'm not sure how helpful these numbers
actually are.

> Jeff

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#256751

FromGreg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>
Date2023-04-04 19:40 +0200
Message-ID<GgSNr-hlpk-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256749
On Tue, Apr 04, 2023 at 06:29:50PM +0100, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail rather
> misses the point and insults him. For example, three CVEs chosen at
> random from the 'vim' list:
> 
> CVE-2010-3481 	Multiple SQL injection vulnerabilities in
> login.php in ApPHP PHP MicroCMS 1.0.1, when magic_quotes_gpc is
> disabled, allow remote attackers to execute arbitrary SQL commands via
> the (1) user_name and (2) password variables, possibly related to
> include/classes/Login.php. NOTE: some of these details are obtained
> from third party information. NOTE: the password vector might not be
> vulnerable.
> 
> CVE-2010-2704 	Buffer overflow in HP OpenView
> Network Node Manager (OV NNM) 7.51 and 7.53 allows remote attackers to
> execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to nnmrptconfig.exe.
> 
> CVE-2010-2703 	Stack-based buffer overflow in the execvp_nc
> function in the ov.dll module in HP OpenView Network Node Manager (OV
> NNM) 7.51 and 7.53, when running on Windows, allows remote attackers to
> execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to webappmon.exe. 
> 
> FWIW, the word SQL appears 127 times in the 'vim' CVEs, and the word
> 'vim' doesn't appear in most so I'm not sure how helpful these numbers
> actually are.

The word "via" appears in all three of your selections.  That makes me
think that the web site is using some kind of a "close-enough match"
heuristic, and is (unhelpfully) matching "via" as close enough to "vim".

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#256752

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2023-04-04 20:00 +0200
Message-ID<GgT6O-hlw6-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256751
On Tue 04 Apr 2023 at 13:37:27 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 04, 2023 at 06:29:50PM +0100, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail rather
> > misses the point and insults him. For example, three CVEs chosen at
> > random from the 'vim' list:
> > 
> > CVE-2010-3481 	Multiple SQL injection vulnerabilities in
> > login.php in ApPHP PHP MicroCMS 1.0.1, when magic_quotes_gpc is
> > disabled, allow remote attackers to execute arbitrary SQL commands via
> > the (1) user_name and (2) password variables, possibly related to
> > include/classes/Login.php. NOTE: some of these details are obtained
> > from third party information. NOTE: the password vector might not be
> > vulnerable.
> > 
> > CVE-2010-2704 	Buffer overflow in HP OpenView
> > Network Node Manager (OV NNM) 7.51 and 7.53 allows remote attackers to
> > execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to nnmrptconfig.exe.
> > 
> > CVE-2010-2703 	Stack-based buffer overflow in the execvp_nc
> > function in the ov.dll module in HP OpenView Network Node Manager (OV
> > NNM) 7.51 and 7.53, when running on Windows, allows remote attackers to
> > execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to webappmon.exe. 
> > 
> > FWIW, the word SQL appears 127 times in the 'vim' CVEs, and the word
> > 'vim' doesn't appear in most so I'm not sure how helpful these numbers
> > actually are.
> 
> The word "via" appears in all three of your selections.  That makes me
> think that the web site is using some kind of a "close-enough match"
> heuristic, and is (unhelpfully) matching "via" as close enough to "vim".

I don't think the connection is even as incidental as that.
There apparently exists a VIM list that raises and discusses
bugs, among which are vulnerabilities. References in the CVE
list are given to help distinguish between vulnerabilities, and
these references contain the name of that VIM list, and others.
So it's just a case of shooting the messenger.

Cheers,
David.

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#256753

FromJeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
Date2023-04-04 21:00 +0200
Message-ID<GgU2R-hm5m-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256751
On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 1:37 PM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 04, 2023 at 06:29:50PM +0100, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail rather
> > misses the point and insults him. For example, three CVEs chosen at
> > random from the 'vim' list:
> >
> > CVE-2010-3481         Multiple SQL injection vulnerabilities in
> > login.php in ApPHP PHP MicroCMS 1.0.1, when magic_quotes_gpc is
> > disabled, allow remote attackers to execute arbitrary SQL commands via
> > the (1) user_name and (2) password variables, possibly related to
> > include/classes/Login.php. NOTE: some of these details are obtained
> > from third party information. NOTE: the password vector might not be
> > vulnerable.
> >
> > CVE-2010-2704         Buffer overflow in HP OpenView
> > Network Node Manager (OV NNM) 7.51 and 7.53 allows remote attackers to
> > execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to nnmrptconfig.exe.
> >
> > CVE-2010-2703         Stack-based buffer overflow in the execvp_nc
> > function in the ov.dll module in HP OpenView Network Node Manager (OV
> > NNM) 7.51 and 7.53, when running on Windows, allows remote attackers to
> > execute arbitrary code via a long HTTP request to webappmon.exe.
> >
> > FWIW, the word SQL appears 127 times in the 'vim' CVEs, and the word
> > 'vim' doesn't appear in most so I'm not sure how helpful these numbers
> > actually are.
>
> The word "via" appears in all three of your selections.  That makes me
> think that the web site is using some kind of a "close-enough match"
> heuristic, and is (unhelpfully) matching "via" as close enough to "vim".

Oh, that would not be good.

The Vim folks had a bad week this week:
https://ubuntu.com/security/notices/USN-5995-1 . There were 30 CVEs
fixed this week.

Jeff

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#256881

FromEmanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
Date2023-04-08 16:40 +0200
Message-ID<GihTr-E9q-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256753
Jeffrey Walton wrote:

> The Vim folks had a bad week this week:
> https://ubuntu.com/security/notices/USN-5995-1 . There were
> 30 CVEs fixed this week.

What's the deal with that LOL :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#256882

FromEmanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
Date2023-04-08 16:40 +0200
Message-ID<GihTr-E9q-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256751
Greg Wooledge wrote:

> The word "via" appears in all three of your selections.
> That makes me think that the web site is using some kind of
> a "close-enough match" heuristic, and is (unhelpfully)
> matching "via" as close enough to "vim".

It's called the typographic attack vector ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#256884

FromEmanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
Date2023-04-08 16:50 +0200
Message-ID<Gii37-Ed6-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256749
debian-user wrote:

> But cropping and ignoring the actual point of Stefan's mail
> rather misses the point and insults him.

Those don't work on him anyway :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#256888

FromEmanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
Date2023-04-08 17:00 +0200
Message-ID<GiicN-EgG-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256742
Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> Here are three more data points.
>>
>>    * Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
>>    * Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
>>    * Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
>>
>> I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.
>
> I don't know what the number of CVEs tells us about
> a project, but the above additionally suffers from the fact
> that it's just searching for a keyword, so for `vi`
> most(all?) matches are unrelated to the famous editor.

But wait, Vi still has 61 hits, and Vim 656, shouldn't Vi
have at least all the Vim hits then?

At least we can be sure Emacs relates ut us, right? :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#256890

FromEmanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
Date2023-04-08 17:10 +0200
Message-ID<Giimt-Ezy-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256739
Jeffrey Walton wrote:

> Here are three more data points.
>
>    * Emacs - 41 CVEs since 2000 [1]
>    * Vi - 61 CVEs since 1999 [2]
>    * Vim - 656 CVEs since 2001 [3]
>
> I'm not sure how many CVEs overlap for Vim due to Vi.

Hm ... what does this stat indicate? :O

Haha why do Vim has so many? :D

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#256697 — Computer anthropology and language wars [was: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?]

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2023-04-03 19:50 +0200
SubjectComputer anthropology and language wars [was: Is perl still the No.1 language for sysadmin?]
Message-ID<Ggwtz-h7he-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#256691

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Apr 03, 2023 at 12:36:51PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 4:59 AM <coreyh@free.fr> wrote:
> >
> > I saw many commands in /bin and /usr/bin are written by perl.
> > is perl still the first choice for sysadmin on linux?
> 
> I am surprised this thread has not started a mini-flame war.

Luckily those things are calming down a little bit (but beware.
If you come across a younger language *cough* Rust *cough*, you
still might be into some fun).

> About the best you can say is, Perl is one of the more popular
> scripting languages. Trying to pin down the "best" will fail because
> it is opinion based.

And depends on the task. And on the writer. And on the team. And
more.

> Next, you might ask which is the best editor to use on Unix & Linux.
> That should really stir the pot :) Emacs for the win!

Emacs +1 :-)

Although I'm writing this with vim :-) :-)

I always find those things very interesting: people fight for
their tools as if there should be only one. By now (I'm pretty
old, my first language was FORTRAN (yes, all capitals), then
came Simula-67), I'm convinced that brains tend to be "wired"
in different ways, so that people will feel tendencies towards
different types of languages.

Then, there are typical languages for big teams [1] (Java is
one), which impose stricter structures. And those more for
the creative folks, which make it so easy to "roll your own"
that everyone ends up rolling (Lisps, I'm looking at you).

My hunch for this horrible urge to have just One Language
to Rule Them All is that it must be a very unhealty heritage
of our monotheistic ways. As far as computer languages are
concerned, I cherish this incredibly colourful and diverse
world we have (I still have my likes and dislikes, mind
you).

Recommended reading (out of print, alas) "David Gelernter,
Suresh Jagannathan: Programming Linguistics".

Cheers

[1] There's this wonderful quote by (again) Alan Perlis,
  out of the foreword to SICP [2]:
  "Pascal is for building pyramids -- imposing, breathtaking,
   static structures built by armies pushing heavy blocks
   into place. Lisp is for building organisms -- imposing,
   breathtaking, dynamic structures built by squads fitting
   fluctuating myriads of simpler organisms into place."

  What he writes about Pascal back then is the more true
  for Java.

[2] https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/full-text/book/book-Z-H-5.html#%_chap_Temp_2

-- 
t

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