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how to limit a CPU temperature?

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  how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 16:20 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 16:30 +0200
      Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? "tv.debian" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2023-04-08 16:50 +0200
        Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 18:00 +0200
          Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-04-08 18:20 +0200
            Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 20:40 +0200
      Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbi.73@letterboxes.org> - 2023-04-08 17:00 +0200
        Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-04-08 17:20 +0200
          Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 17:50 +0200
        Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 18:10 +0200
          Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-04-13 16:30 +0200
      Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-11 02:20 +0200
        Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-04-11 03:30 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? tom@myposts.ovh - 2023-04-08 16:30 +0200
      Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 18:10 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 17:20 +0200
      Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-04-08 18:00 +0200
        Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbi.73@letterboxes.org> - 2023-04-08 18:10 +0200
        [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-04-08 19:00 +0200
          Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 19:20 +0200
            the front (was: " Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature?") Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 19:30 +0200
              Re: the front (was: " Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature?") Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-04-08 20:00 +0200
                Re: the front (was: " Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature?") Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-08 20:10 +0200
          Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Jeremy Ardley <jeremy@ardley.org> - 2023-04-09 01:00 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2023-04-08 22:10 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2023-04-09 02:30 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-09 03:10 +0200
      Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Mark Allums <maa@allums.com> - 2023-04-09 05:20 +0200
        Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-10 01:50 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2023-04-09 14:30 +0200
      Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> - 2023-04-09 14:40 +0200
    Re: how to limit a CPU temperature? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-04-10 04:20 +0200

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#256876 — how to limit a CPU temperature?

  i have a program that has changed it's behavior to suddenly
become a CPU hog (while doing something simple like uploading
files for my website).  probably a bug, but it got me to 
wondering how i could limit the CPU temperature to a range 
well below the maximum that kicks in by the CPU itself.

  i have an intel processor and it has the MAX which does
prevent it from going higher (100C), but i'd like to keep it
at 70C or lower.

  i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
but no luck yet in my searches.

  thanks!  :)


  songbird

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#256877

songbird wrote:
...
>   i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
> but no luck yet in my searches.

  ...

  of course the moment i send the message it comes to me that
perhaps the BIOS will let me do this, but i don't want to reboot
at the moment to check that.  will check later.


  songbird

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#256885

Le 08/04/2023 à 16:26, songbird wrote :
> songbird wrote:
> ...
>>    i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
>> but no luck yet in my searches.
> 
>    ...
> 
>    of course the moment i send the message it comes to me that
> perhaps the BIOS will let me do this, but i don't want to reboot
> at the moment to check that.  will check later.
> 
> 
>    songbird
> 

Hello, yes most motherboard bios will let you do that, also you may be 
able to play with frequency boost and other advanced features that 
greatly impact cpu temperature. Utilities like cpupower (cpupower-gui) 
can allow you to set a maximum frequency without rebooting, but 
trial-and-error is needed to find the right balance, and not all cpu 
models have this kind of knobs available.

Also modern cpu do not suffer from high temperatures as much as the cpu 
of yore, they use up all the thermal headroom they have, then throttle 
the frequency/power to stay at that level. Of course the rest of the 
system has to deal with the residual heat as well if it is not removed 
from the chassis.

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#256897

tv.debian wrote:
...
> Also modern cpu do not suffer from high temperatures as much as the cpu 
> of yore, they use up all the thermal headroom they have, then throttle 
> the frequency/power to stay at that level. Of course the rest of the 
> system has to deal with the residual heat as well if it is not removed 
> from the chassis.

  there's no fans in the chassis other than the tiny CPU
heat sink cooling fan.  it doesn't run at high speed when
i'm doing my normal activities (typing, browsing, listening
to music or some minor data crunching) just once in a while
does the fan kick up to higher speed where i hear it and
that is when i'm booting the computer up and also once in
a while when browsing some sites that do something more
intensive.  and now when i'm uploading files to my website
hosting service.  by far the worst now as the others might
be for a few seconds and then it shuts back off again as
compared to the FTP software which when it kicks on the 
fan it takes five minutes or longer and that's what got me
curious as i don't like to listen to that.  so i want to
know how to calm it down and shut it up.  :)


  songbird

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#256902

On Sat, Apr 08, 2023 at 11:43:53AM -0400, songbird wrote:
> tv.debian wrote:
> ...
> > Also modern cpu do not suffer from high temperatures as much as the cpu 
> > of yore, they use up all the thermal headroom they have, then throttle 
> > the frequency/power to stay at that level. Of course the rest of the 
> > system has to deal with the residual heat as well if it is not removed 
> > from the chassis.
> 
>   there's no fans in the chassis other than the tiny CPU
> heat sink cooling fan.  it doesn't run at high speed when
> i'm doing my normal activities (typing, browsing, listening
> to music or some minor data crunching) just once in a while
> does the fan kick up to higher speed where i hear it and
> that is when i'm booting the computer up and also once in
> a while when browsing some sites that do something more
> intensive.  and now when i'm uploading files to my website
> hosting service.  by far the worst now as the others might
> be for a few seconds and then it shuts back off again as
> compared to the FTP software which when it kicks on the 
> fan it takes five minutes or longer and that's what got me
> curious as i don't like to listen to that.  so i want to
> know how to calm it down and shut it up.  :)
> 
> 
>   songbird
>

Maybe don't use FTP but use rsync - that way you can come back to it
after a while and start again at the point you left off?

It does depend *exactly* what files you are transferring.

All best, as ever,

Andy 

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#256919

Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
...
> Maybe don't use FTP but use rsync - that way you can come back to it
> after a while and start again at the point you left off?

  i have no control over what is listening at the other 
end other than i sign on.

  i can limit the FTP software to fewer connections and i
may end up having to do that just to see if it makes any
difference.  i do not have a very fast connection, but it 
has worked fine up to this point.


> It does depend *exactly* what files you are transferring.

  some text files (most very small) and a bunch of picture
files, most of them about 1-5M each.  not all of them need
to be uploaded at each refresh - the FTP software is smart 
enough to figure out which files have changed.


  songbird

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#256887

On Sat, 8 Apr 2023, at 15:26, songbird wrote:
> songbird wrote:
> ...
>>   i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
>> but no luck yet in my searches.

Surely you don't need to set a temperature limit?  If you
do, the cpu will still run (far too much, but less than now)
up to that lower max temperature.

Wouldn't it be better to limit the amount of cputime that
the hogging application is using?

Google suggests that "nice" or "cpulimit" might do that.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#256893

On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Apr 2023, at 15:26, songbird wrote:
>> songbird wrote:
>> ...
>>>   i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
>>> but no luck yet in my searches.
>
> Surely you don't need to set a temperature limit?  If you
> do, the cpu will still run (far too much, but less than now)
> up to that lower max temperature.
>
> Wouldn't it be better to limit the amount of cputime that
> the hogging application is using?

I wondered this too. It reminds me a little of the old joke.

PATIENT: It hurts when I go like THIS [FLAPS ARMS]! Please help me.
DOCTOR: Then stop going like THIS [FLAPS ARMS]!

> Google suggests that "nice" or "cpulimit" might do that.

I would do

  $ man -k limit

and see what looked interesting. prlimit(1) looks like it has a lot of
switches.

-- 
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin

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#256896

davidson wrote:
...
> I would do
>
>   $ man -k limit
>
> and see what looked interesting. prlimit(1) looks like it has a lot of
> switches.

  ok, thanks will look at that too.  :)


  songbird

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#256901

Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Apr 2023, at 15:26, songbird wrote:
>> songbird wrote:
>> ...
>>>   i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
>>> but no luck yet in my searches.
>
> Surely you don't need to set a temperature limit?  If you
> do, the cpu will still run (far too much, but less than now)
> up to that lower max temperature.

  i'm actually quite ok with it running a lot longer
at the lower temperature because it is only this one
application that is being the hog.  most of the time
i'm idling and the temperatures rarely get above 31C.
i can listen to music, i can watch videos and browse
at the same time and rarely go above 30-40C.
when the hog kicks in it immediately goes to 100C 
and all for something simple like FTPing some files 
to my website host.  as it never did this in the past
it's a bug someplace as far as i'm concerned but getting
someone to find and fix the bug is a challenge and i
really would like to know the answer anyways.  so i
asked.  :)


> Wouldn't it be better to limit the amount of cputime that
> the hogging application is using?
>
> Google suggests that "nice" or "cpulimit" might do that.

  nice didn't do it.  "nice -n 19" didn't make any change.

  ok, will give cpulimit a try for the next upload and see
how that goes.  :)  thanks.

  cpulimit was not installed so that is now rectified.

  thanks!


  songbird

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#257147

On 2023-04-08 11:31:44 -0400, songbird wrote:
> Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> > Wouldn't it be better to limit the amount of cputime that
> > the hogging application is using?
> >
> > Google suggests that "nice" or "cpulimit" might do that.
> 
>   nice didn't do it.  "nice -n 19" didn't make any change.

"nice" does not limit the CPU usage. It just changes the scheduling
priorities between processes.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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#257022

songbird wrote:
> songbird wrote:
> ...
>>   i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
>> but no luck yet in my searches.
>
>   ...
>
>   of course the moment i send the message it comes to me that
> perhaps the BIOS will let me do this, but i don't want to reboot
> at the moment to check that.  will check later.

  the bios did let me turn down the temperature so we'll see
how that works next time i need to do an upload.


  songbird

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#257024

On 11/04/2023 07:12, songbird wrote:
>    the bios did let me turn down the temperature so we'll see
> how that works next time i need to do an upload.

I am curious if it affects
/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone*

I have never tried to do anything with this interface. I decided to look
into sysfs because in the past, having an issue with screen brightness
controls, I found backlight among cooling devices.

I have not read the following links with enough attention, so I can not
say that they provide enough details to try runtime configuration:

https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/thermal/thermal.txt
Thermal Framework Device Tree descriptor

https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/driver-api/thermal/sysfs-api.html
Generic Thermal Sysfs driver How To
(https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/driver-api/thermal/index.html)

https://wiki.st.com/stm32mpu/wiki/Thermal_overview

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#256879

On 2023-04-08 22:17, songbird wrote:
> i have a program that has changed it's behavior to suddenly
> become a CPU hog (while doing something simple like uploading
> files for my website).  probably a bug, but it got me to
> wondering how i could limit the CPU temperature to a range
> well below the maximum that kicks in by the CPU itself.
> 
>   i have an intel processor and it has the MAX which does
> prevent it from going higher (100C), but i'd like to keep it
> at 70C or lower.
> 
>   i've been trying to find anything that will let me set this
> but no luck yet in my searches.
> 
>   thanks!  :)
> 
> 

By using a fanner?

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#256900

tom@myposts.ovh wrote:
...
> By using a fanner?

  well-trained chipmunk?


  songbird

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#256894

songbird wrote:

> i have a program that has changed it's behavior to suddenly
> become a CPU hog (while doing something simple like
> uploading files for my website). probably a bug, but it got
> me to wondering how i could limit the CPU temperature to
> a range well below the maximum that kicks in by the
> CPU itself.
>
> i have an intel processor and it has the MAX which does
> prevent it from going higher (100C), but i'd like to keep it
> at 70C or lower.

>From software? Don't know ...

But install fans and see if you still get high temperatures if
you didn't (?) ...

Some data that can be fun and how far I got. Well, it's
a material sport so you get as long/much as you buy.

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/ebchw/comp.jpg
  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/ebchw/ebchw.jpg
  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/ebchw/COMPUTER
  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.zsh/temp

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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#256898

Emanuel Berg wrote:
...
> But install fans and see if you still get high temperatures if
> you didn't (?) ...

  i have a very tiny fan and heatsink that is right on
the processor.  the rest of the system is fanless (no
fan for the PSU - no fancy GPU needed for what i do).
i almost bought a bigger heatsink so that the entire
thing could run without the fan, but the small fan
provided with the CPU has been adequate and quiet enough
that i never have felt i had to buy the heatsink after
all.  i may do that in the future if this fan goes out.

  one of my main design goals with this machine was that
it be very quiet (compared to the previous machines i
had that sounded like jet engines taking off and making
way too much noise all the time).

  the only time the fan runs on this computer is a few
moments when i turn it on and it is booting up and once
in a while when i run a process that wants more CPU (very
rarely).  the rest of the time i don't hear the fan at 
all.

  only with this change to the FTP software has it become
an annoyance that made me go look for a way to deal with
it.

  filing a bug against the FTP software is also something
i should do, but i've not gotten that far yet.  ;)


  songbird

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#256899

On Sat, 8 Apr 2023, at 16:39, songbird wrote:

>   only with this change to the FTP software has it become
> an annoyance that made me go look for a way to deal with
> it.
>
>   filing a bug against the FTP software is also something
> i should do, but i've not gotten that far yet.  ;)

Meantime, what do you do with that FTP software?

Are you asking it to upload lots of files?

Have you worked out whether it (say) successfully uploads
them, but perhaps doesn't realise that it has done - that might
be due to a change in the server it's talking to - and then it
retries the whole lot over & over again?

What would happen if instead of one FTP invocation uploading
n files, you ran n/2 times doing half the files, or maybe n times
doing one file each time, with a pause of a few seconds (or more)
between each file?

Maybe - if the files ARE getting to the server ok but that's not
recognised, you could use something else - curl or wget 
perhaps - to check whether each new file got there ok.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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#256911 — [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature?

>   i have a very tiny fan and heatsink that is right on
> the processor.  the rest of the system is fanless (no
> fan for the PSU - no fancy GPU needed for what i do).
> i almost bought a bigger heatsink so that the entire
> thing could run without the fan, but the small fan
> provided with the CPU has been adequate and quiet enough
> that i never have felt i had to buy the heatsink after
> all.  i may do that in the future if this fan goes out.

I recommend to go fanless whenever possible.
Computers should be silent.


        Stefan

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#256912 — Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: how to limit a CPU temperature?

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> I recommend to go fanless whenever possible.
> Computers should be silent.

Yeah, optimally ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

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