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Recommendations for a UPS?

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  Recommendations for a UPS? Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 19:30 +0200
    OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS? john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2023-07-31 19:40 +0200
      Re: OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 20:50 +0200
        Re: OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS? john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2023-08-02 19:00 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for a UPS? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2023-07-31 19:50 +0200
      Re: OT: Recommendations for a UPS? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2023-07-31 20:30 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for a UPS? ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2023-07-31 20:00 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> - 2023-07-31 20:00 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-07-31 20:10 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 20:50 +0200
      Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-07-31 21:00 +0200
      Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-07-31 21:00 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for a UPS? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2023-07-31 21:30 +0200
      Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a  UPS? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2023-08-01 09:50 +0200
        Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 17:10 +0200
          Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a  UPS? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-01 20:10 +0200
            Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 00:50 +0200
              Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a  UPS? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-02 19:10 +0200
    Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-08-01 01:50 +0200
      Re: Recommendations for a UPS? "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2023-08-01 22:20 +0200
        Re: Recommendations for a UPS? Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 23:10 +0200

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#260521 — Recommendations for a UPS?

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I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.

All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and
Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and
two-star reviews).

Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

Thanks.

-Tom

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#260522 — OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

On 7/31/23 19:23, Tom Browder wrote:
> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
> haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
> electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.
>
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and
> Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and
> two-star reviews).
>
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
>
>

I have two APC and I'm pretty happy with those.

What type of recommendation are you looking for/ what are your requirements?

I'll also assume that you are posting in here as you want something that
is Debian compatible! ;^)

--
John Doe

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#260528 — Re: OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

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On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 13:28 john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> wrote:

> On 7/31/23 19:23, Tom Browder wrote:

...

> > Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
>

I have two APC and I'm pretty happy with those.


Would you mind saying the model numbers? Do they have replaceable batteries?

>
What type of recommendation are you looking for/ what are your requirements?


I want to provide reasonable battery support for my two running PCs (one
Debian, one Windows) for the power fluctuations we are seein lately in Gulf
Breeze, Florida.

I'll also assume that you are posting in here as you want something that
> is Debian compatible! ;^)


Yes, that would be nice, but I trust most folks' opinions here because they
are both reasonably computer proficient and most are very friendly.

-Tom

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#260586 — Re: OT: Re: Recommendations for a UPS?

On 7/31/23 20:47, Tom Browder wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 13:28 john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/31/23 19:23, Tom Browder wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
>>
>
> I have two APC and I'm pretty happy with those.
>
>
> Would you mind saying the model numbers? Do they have replaceable batteries?
>

Back-UPS XS 950U, no!

--
John Doe

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#260523

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 12:23:46PM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
>I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
>haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
>electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.
>
>All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and Tripp
>Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and two-star
>reviews).
>
>Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
>
>Thanks.
>
>-Tom

Experience with APC:  every one died emitting smoke

Experience with Tripp Lite:  five have been in daily use for years;
finally had to replace the batteries

Experience with Eaton/Powersonic (new owner of Tripp Lite): had to
scrap an expensive sinusoidal output unit because a proprietary
component failed and PowerSonic discontinued support.

RLH
-- 
He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry
ground; a fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them
that dwell therein. - Psalm 107:33-34

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#260527 — Re: OT: Recommendations for a UPS?

On 31 Jul 2023 17:35 +0000, from russell@rlharris.org (Russell L. Harris):
>> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery.
> 
> Experience with APC:  every one died emitting smoke

That's not my experience with them (and I have three in current use,
one of which is about to hit the 10 year mark with IIRC nothing but
one battery replacement, plus one that's been retired for other
reasons).

For moderate needs, I suggest to take a look at the APC Back-UPS Pro
series. Works fine with apcupsd for all I can tell. A downside is the
proprietary RJ-45 to USB cable.

-- 
Michael Kjörling                     🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

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#260524

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Take a look at:

https://tripplite.eaton.com/products/ups-battery-backup-on-line-single-phase~11-56

I ran a domain for years on older Tripp Lite UPSs like these.  They take wall electricity, rectify it and charge the batteries (lead-acid in mine) and convert back to gorgeous, surge-free, stable voltage AC.  No switchover when the wall electricity fails -- the computer never knows.  A proper UPS, IMHO...

--
Glenn English

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#260525

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023, Tom Browder wrote:

> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery.
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

I use Eaton Ellipse ECO 1600's.  I have replaced the batteries.  The 1600 is 
big, but I live in an area with a lot of lightning, long overhead lines and 
repeated shutdowns.  I use NUT and I always shutdown after 2 minutes, whatever 
the battery charge.  For me it's the number of shutdowns that is important, not 
the total battery supported uptime.

The latest Eaton 1600 no longer seems to support automatic power on after wall 
power resumes.  Check on this if it is important to you. 
https://networkupstools.org/

Roger

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#260526

On 1/8/23 01:23, Tom Browder wrote:
> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the 
> battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for 
> awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location 
> and I need one.
> 
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC 
> and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and 
> two-star reviews).
> 
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -Tom

You do not state your location, your requirements, or, your budget.

Each of these is important, and, can influence the solution.

"
"So once you do know what the question actually is,
  you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
   Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
   "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
   A Trilogy In Four Parts",
   written by Douglas Adams,
   published by Pan Books, 1992
"

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#260529

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 2:13 PM Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.
>
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and two-star reviews).
>
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

I put them on all my electronic devices. We use about 13 of them
throughout the house. There is one at the ONT, one at the router, one
at each tv/cable box, and one for each computer in the house. In my
test lab in the basement, I keep a few computers grouped together and
plugged into one UPS. I have 4 groups, so I need four UPSes.

Our use case is an occasional power outage of several minutes,
brown-outs and dirty power. If power looks like it is going to be out
longer, I turn on our backup generator. It produces _really_ dirty
power. Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is between 15% and 20%.

We use the 425 VAC units [1] and 600 VAC units [2], depending on the load.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDC236Q
[2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWAZEIU

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#260530

On 1/8/23 02:53, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 1/8/23 02:41, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 2:13 PM Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the 
>>> battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for 
>>> awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new 
>>> location and I need one.
>>>
>>> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC 
>>> and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- 
>>> and two-star reviews).
>>>
>>> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
>>
>> I put them on all my electronic devices. We use about 13 of them
>> throughout the house. There is one at the ONT, one at the router, one
>> at each tv/cable box, and one for each computer in the house. In my
>> test lab in the basement, I keep a few computers grouped together and
>> plugged into one UPS. I have 4 groups, so I need four UPSes.
>>
>> Our use case is an occasional power outage of several minutes,
>> brown-outs and dirty power. If power looks like it is going to be out
>> longer, I turn on our backup generator. It produces _really_ dirty
>> power. Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is between 15% and 20%.
>>
>> We use the 425 VAC units [1] and 600 VAC units [2], depending on the 
>> load.
>>
>> [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDC236Q
>> [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWAZEIU
>>
> 
> 
> With all of that, including 13 UPS's, I wonder whether it would not be 
> more feasible to buy a household BESS with a capacity of 10kWh, and a 
> dedicated inverter, to provide a single UPS.
> 
> Having replaced/upgraded our household rooftop photovoltaic system last 
> year, I got a 19kW 

That should have been 19kWh; the hybrid inverter can draw 5kW continuous 
power from the BESS.

> BESS connected to a hybrid inverter that provides UPS 
> (switchover time less than 10ms), with it configured to retain 25% 
> (about 4kWh) for reserve power. With that, we have gone through multiple 
> grid power outages, of several hours long, each, with no loss of 
> electricity supply to the house. The whole of the household, is on the 
> protected circuit (apart from a bore pump, and a solar HWS booster 
> element, which has not been turned on for a few years).
> 
> ..
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..............
> 

-- 
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#260531

On 1/8/23 02:41, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 2:13 PM Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.
>>
>> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and two-star reviews).
>>
>> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?
> 
> I put them on all my electronic devices. We use about 13 of them
> throughout the house. There is one at the ONT, one at the router, one
> at each tv/cable box, and one for each computer in the house. In my
> test lab in the basement, I keep a few computers grouped together and
> plugged into one UPS. I have 4 groups, so I need four UPSes.
> 
> Our use case is an occasional power outage of several minutes,
> brown-outs and dirty power. If power looks like it is going to be out
> longer, I turn on our backup generator. It produces _really_ dirty
> power. Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is between 15% and 20%.
> 
> We use the 425 VAC units [1] and 600 VAC units [2], depending on the load.
> 
> [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDC236Q
> [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWAZEIU
> 


With all of that, including 13 UPS's, I wonder whether it would not be 
more feasible to buy a household BESS with a capacity of 10kWh, and a 
dedicated inverter, to provide a single UPS.

Having replaced/upgraded our household rooftop photovoltaic system last 
year, I got a 19kW BESS connected to a hybrid inverter that provides UPS 
(switchover time less than 10ms), with it configured to retain 25% 
(about 4kWh) for reserve power. With that, we have gone through multiple 
grid power outages, of several hours long, each, with no loss of 
electricity supply to the house. The whole of the household, is on the 
protected circuit (apart from a bore pump, and a solar HWS booster 
element, which has not been turned on for a few years).

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#260532

Tom Browder wrote:
> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I
> haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but
> electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one.
>
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and
> Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and
> two-star reviews).
>
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

  i've gotten my money's worth out of two APC's.  the first one
i bought for about $70 back in 1998 or so and it lasted about
20 years without a battery change or any other issues.  i did
have to replace it and bought an APC Pro 1000 S as it was on
sale and fit my needs and so far it has worked as advertised
for a few years.

  one requirement for me is that i do not want something 
beeping at me.

  i really like is the built in watt meter which lets me 
find out how much juice various things use that i have 
around here.

  i do not run things for long when the power goes out
but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down 
the computer system and unplug the power cord and the 
network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm 
coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really 
want things to get fried.


  songbird

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#260538 — Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songbird@anthive.com (songbird):
>   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
> but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
> down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down 
> the computer system and unplug the power cord and the 
> network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm 
> coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really 
> want things to get fried.

You can have incoming-mains overvoltage protection installed to
provide a base level of protection for everything electrical against a
mains overvoltage (but generally not other types of power
fluctuations). It's not even all that expensive, or at least wasn't
some years ago. Consider asking your electrician what options would be
available in your particular situation and for a cost estimate or
quote.

Especially if you are in an area that frequently gets lightning, it
_might_ help the UPS last longer, too, since its protective circuitry
then doesn't need to take the brunt of the voltage spike after that is
already well inside your home with all the associated risks.

-- 
Michael Kjörling                     🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

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#260552 — Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net>
wrote:

> On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songbird@anthive.com (songbird):
> >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
> > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
> > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
> > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
> > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
> > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
> > want things to get fried.
>
> You can have incoming-mains overvoltage protection installed to
> provide a base level of protection for everything electrical against a
> mains overvoltage (but generally not other types of power
> fluctuations). It's not even all that expensive, or at least wasn't
> some years ago. Consider asking your electrician what options would be
> available in your particular situation and for a cost estimate or
> quote.
>
> Especially if you are in an area that frequently gets lightning, it
> _might_ help the UPS last longer, too, since its protective circuitry
> then doesn't need to take the brunt of the voltage spike after that is
> already well inside your home with all the associated risks.
>

It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get power-conditioning, not
just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can extend the
lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the conditioned power.
The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your utility can provide.

And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less power loss
in the individual transformers and motors in each racked server, less heat
to be expelled.


Michael Kjörling                     🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
> “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
>
>

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#260562 — Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

On 8/1/23 11:03, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net 
> <mailto:2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net>> wrote:
> 
>     On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songbird@anthive.com
>     <mailto:songbird@anthive.com> (songbird):
>      >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
>      > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
>      > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
>      > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
>      > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
>      > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
>      > want things to get fried.
> 
I replaced the original 60 amp service in 2008 with a 200, and brought 
this grandfathered 2970 house service up to code, doing all the internal 
work myself. I have a big ups running everything but the lights and 
printers in this room, got rid of the copper telephone because the cable 
was 70 years old, 50 pair paper insulated cable they would not keep 
working for a week at a time, so after 5 months of that I voted with my 
wallet and hooked all that up to the cable system. I must have done 
something right, I have not even blown a ccfl light bulb since and it 
all runs 24/7/365.25.

>     You can have incoming-mains overvoltage protection installed to
>     provide a base level of protection for everything electrical against a
>     mains overvoltage (but generally not other types of power
>     fluctuations). It's not even all that expensive, or at least wasn't
>     some years ago. Consider asking your electrician what options would be
>     available in your particular situation and for a cost estimate or
>     quote.
> 
>     Especially if you are in an area that frequently gets lightning, it
>     _might_ help the UPS last longer, too, since its protective circuitry
>     then doesn't need to take the brunt of the voltage spike after that is
>     already well inside your home with all the associated risks.
> 
> 
> It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get power-conditioning, 
> not just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can extend 
> the lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the conditioned 
> power. The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your utility can 
> provide.
> 
> And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less power 
> loss in the individual transformers and motors in each racked server, 
> less heat to be expelled.
> 
> 
>     Michael Kjörling                     🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
>     <https://michael.kjorling.se>
>     “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
> 

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#260574 — Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 1:09 PM gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:

> On 8/1/23 11:03, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net
> > <mailto:2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songbird@anthive.com
> >     <mailto:songbird@anthive.com> (songbird):
> >      >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
> >      > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
> >      > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
> >      > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
> >      > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
> >      > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
> >      > want things to get fried.
> >
> I replaced the original 60 amp service in 2008 with a 200, and brought
> this grandfathered 2970 house service up to code, doing all the internal
> work myself. I have a big ups running everything but the lights and
> printers in this room, got rid of the copper telephone because the cable
> was 70 years old, 50 pair paper insulated cable they would not keep
> working for a week at a time, so after 5 months of that I voted with my
> wallet and hooked all that up to the cable system. I must have done
> something right, I have not even blown a ccfl light bulb since and it
> all runs 24/7/365.25.


In your case then, you may need to pay attention to transients in your
cabling plant. Everytime a large motor starts, revs or stops, those
transients are hitting your cabling. My recollection is that you have
machine tools in addition to electronics and climate control. Even more so
then. Also grounding for your electrical system has to be proven
over-adequate. And any possible ground-loops need to be found and
remediated.


> It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get power-conditioning,
> > not just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can extend
> > the lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the conditioned
> > power. The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your utility can
> > provide.
> >
> > And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less power
> > loss in the individual transformers and motors in each racked server,
> > less heat to be expelled.
>
>

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#260588 — Re: OT: Protecting electrical equipment; was: Recommendations for a UPS?

On 8/1/23 18:46, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 1:09 PM gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net 
> <mailto:gheskett@shentel.net>> wrote:
> 
>     On 8/1/23 11:03, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
>      > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 2:40 AM Michael Kjörling
>     <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net <mailto:2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net>
>      > <mailto:2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net <mailto:2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net>>>
>     wrote:
>      >
>      >     On 31 Jul 2023 15:21 -0400, from songbird@anthive.com
>     <mailto:songbird@anthive.com>
>      >     <mailto:songbird@anthive.com <mailto:songbird@anthive.com>>
>     (songbird):
>      >      >   i do not run things for long when the power goes out
>      >      > but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut
>      >      > down in an orderly fashion.  most of the time i shut down
>      >      > the computer system and unplug the power cord and the
>      >      > network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm
>      >      > coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really
>      >      > want things to get fried.
>      >
>     I replaced the original 60 amp service in 2008 with a 200, and brought
>     this grandfathered 2970 house service up to code, doing all the
>     internal
>     work myself. I have a big ups running everything but the lights and
>     printers in this room, got rid of the copper telephone because the
>     cable
>     was 70 years old, 50 pair paper insulated cable they would not keep
>     working for a week at a time, so after 5 months of that I voted with my
>     wallet and hooked all that up to the cable system. I must have done
>     something right, I have not even blown a ccfl light bulb since and it
>     all runs 24/7/365.25.
> 
> 
> In your case then, you may need to pay attention to transients in your 
> cabling plant. Everytime a large motor starts, revs or stops, those 
> transients are hitting your cabling. My recollection is that you have 
> machine tools in addition to electronics and climate control. Even more 
> so then. Also grounding for your electrical system has to be proven 
> over-adequate. And any possible ground-loops need to be found and 
> remediated.
> 
This is true also, but I am a C.E.T. and learned decades ago that 
electrical grounds ack the NEC are specced from their experience based 
on what works, and to wire logical circuits with a single bolt star 
ground. I do appreciate the concern, Nic.  Call it evangelizing, 
whatever, but it does need an occasional sermon to the non-electrical 
types out there. I've long ago quit counting the number of electrical 
problems I have corrected, created by folks carrying Journeymen cards in 
their billfold. And STILL can't tell the diff between the Neutral and 
the static ground. I've long since given up trying to teach them about 
multiphase power. Most know enough to interchange any two wires feeding 
a 3 phase motor if it runs backwards. The "Why"+ it runs backwards is 
above their pay grade.
> 
>      > It's worth mentioning that with a good UPS you get
>     power-conditioning,
>      > not just filtering and over/under-voltage protection. That can
>     extend
>      > the lifetime of any electric motor or other device using the
>     conditioned
>      > power. The UPS emits a controlled waveform beyond what your
>     utility can
>      > provide.
>      >
>      > And numerous datacenters have begun using DC-powered racks. Less
>     power
>      > loss in the individual transformers and motors in each racked
>     server,
>      > less heat to be expelled.
> 

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#260533

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 12:23:46 -0500
Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> wrote:

> I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the
> battery. I haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for
> awhile, but electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new
> location and I need one.
> 
> All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC
> and Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one-
> and two-star reviews).
> 
> Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks?

I have two APC Back-UPS RS 700Gs. I believe they use gel cell
replaceable batteries. Both respond to apcupsd, and I believe APC has
clients for other operating systems. I've had excellent results with
APC for almost three decades.

Replacement batteries from APC are expensive compared to buying
elsewhere, but they come with return shipping for the exhausted battery
so they can recycle it.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#260567

On Monday 31 July 2023 07:47:14 pm Charles Curley wrote:
> Replacement batteries from APC are expensive compared to buying
> elsewhere, but they come with return shipping for the exhausted battery
> so they can recycle it.
 
OTOH local recycling places give me cash for exhausted lead-acid batteries...


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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