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Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed

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  Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-04-02 19:30 +0200
    Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Bob McGowan <ramjr98@yahoo.com> - 2022-04-02 20:30 +0200
      Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-04-02 23:20 +0200
        Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Bob McGowan <tumcsv@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 05:00 +0200
          Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-04-05 00:30 +0200
    Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-07 11:20 +0200
      Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed "Gareth Evans" <donotspam@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-07 11:50 +0200
        Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 03:50 +0200
          Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-08 13:40 +0200
            Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-08 14:20 +0200
              Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 21:30 +0200
              Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-04-10 14:30 +0200
                Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-10 17:30 +0200
                  Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-04-11 16:10 +0200
                    Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-11 19:40 +0200
              Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2022-04-12 01:00 +0200
        Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2022-04-08 18:20 +0200
          Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-08 18:40 +0200
          Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-08 20:00 +0200
          Re: Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-04-08 23:50 +0200

#246826 — Libreoffice: printing "dirties" the file being printed

My search-fu has failed me.

When I print a text document from Libreoffice, the file being printed
gets marked as "dirty", i.e. it has changes, and should be saved. How
do I turn off marking the file as dirty?

libreoffice-core 1:7.0.4-4+deb11u1, amd64

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#246827

On 4/2/22 10:22, Charles Curley wrote:
> My search-fu has failed me.
>
> When I print a text document from Libreoffice, the file being printed
> gets marked as "dirty", i.e. it has changes, and should be saved. How
> do I turn off marking the file as dirty?
>
> libreoffice-core 1:7.0.4-4+deb11u1, amd64
>
Start LibreOffice, open the 'Tools' menu and click on 'Options'. Under 
the 'LibreOffice' heading select 'General' and in about the middle of 
the new set of options you will see 'Document Status'.

Be sure it is not checked.

Bob

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#246833

On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 10:58:49 -0700
Bob McGowan <ramjr98@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Start LibreOffice, open the 'Tools' menu and click on 'Options'.
> Under the 'LibreOffice' heading select 'General' and in about the
> middle of the new set of options you will see 'Document Status'.
> 
> Be sure it is not checked.

Thanks. Unfortunately, that did not seem to work. I tried checking it;
that also modified on printing. Libreoffice appears to be ignoring that
flag.



-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#246895

On 4/2/22 14:10, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 10:58:49 -0700
> Bob McGowan <ramjr98@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Start LibreOffice, open the 'Tools' menu and click on 'Options'.
>> Under the 'LibreOffice' heading select 'General' and in about the
>> middle of the new set of options you will see 'Document Status'.
>>
>> Be sure it is not checked.
> Thanks. Unfortunately, that did not seem to work. I tried checking it;
> that also modified on printing. Libreoffice appears to be ignoring that
> flag.

I just confirmed that the version of LibreOffice I'm running matches 
what you have.

And as Brad Rogers said, "Works here."

You may need to go to LibreOffice help directly with this.

Bob

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#246965

On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 19:33:16 -0700
Bob McGowan <tumcsv@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Thanks. Unfortunately, that did not seem to work. I tried checking
> > it; that also modified on printing. Libreoffice appears to be
> > ignoring that flag.  
> 
> I just confirmed that the version of LibreOffice I'm running matches 
> what you have.
> 
> And as Brad Rogers said, "Works here."
> 
> You may need to go to LibreOffice help directly with this.

The old workaround for LibreOffice worked. I renamed the configuration
directory, ~/.config/libreoffice, and started LibreOffice up again. It
generated a new configuration directory. That worked.

It's a nuisance, since I then have to reconfigure my LibreOffice
instance.

Thanks again.


-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#247024

On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
>Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status'

Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More
specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document
marked as modified because they printed it?

-- 
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
✎	 jmtd@debian.org
🔗	https://jmtd.net

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#247025

On Thu  7 Apr 2022, at 09:58, Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
>>Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status'
>

> Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More
> specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document
> marked as modified because they printed it?

I wondered about that too and looked into it.  I now can't find the references I found, either in my browser history or by re-searching, but iirc, Apple[-related] and LibreOffice forum posts suggested it's to do with:

LO:  MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be automatically updated prior to printing

Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option in that case.

Not sure of the accuracy of either report...

Best wishes,
Gareth

>
> -- 
> Please do not CC me for listmail.
>
> 👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
> ✎	 jmtd@debian.org
> 🔗	https://jmtd.net

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#247037

On Thu 07 Apr 2022 at 10:45:46 (+0100), Gareth Evans wrote:
> On Thu  7 Apr 2022, at 09:58, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> >>Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status'
> >
> 
> > Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More
> > specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document
> > marked as modified because they printed it?
> 
> I wondered about that too and looked into it.  I now can't find the references I found, either in my browser history or by re-searching, but iirc, Apple[-related] and LibreOffice forum posts suggested it's to do with:
> 
> LO:  MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be automatically updated prior to printing
> 
> Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option in that case.
> 
> Not sure of the accuracy of either report...

… nor of my memory.

I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people
started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer,
typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings
in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI retained
those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document
metaphor.

Sometimes, of course, those tiny adjustments would cause major changes
in layout (like when the next figure doesn't _quite_ fit on the bottom
of a page), which caused a great deal of frustration.

OTOH when I printed my PDFs on, say, a printer whose paper gripper
created an oversize margin, I'd imperceptibly shrink the documents
to fit, but the original LaTeX source files would obviously be
unaffected, as would the layout. Of course, I'd have to make my own
note of any changes if I wanted to repeat them in future.

Cheers,
David.

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#247043

On 2022-04-08, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option in that case.
>> 
>> Not sure of the accuracy of either report...
>
> … nor of my memory.
>
> I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people
> started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer,
> typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings
> in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI retained
> those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document
> metaphor.
>

That's exactly the reason, it seems.

 Why does my document get marked as modified when I print it?

 This is because certain information regarding the printer is saved in
 the document data.

https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/Printing/Why_does_my_document_get_marked_as_modified_when_I_print_it

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#247044

On Friday, 8 April 2022 07:32:00 EDT Curt wrote:
> On 2022-04-08, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets
> >> updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option
> >> in that case.
> >> 
> >> Not sure of the accuracy of either report...
> > 
> > … nor of my memory.
> > 
> > I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people
> > started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer,
> > typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings
> > in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI
> > retained
> > those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document
> > metaphor.
> 
> That's exactly the reason, it seems.
> 
>  Why does my document get marked as modified when I print it?
> 
>  This is because certain information regarding the printer is saved in
>  the document data.
> 
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/Printing/Why_
> does_my_document_get_marked_as_modified_when_I_print_it
 
I can see a potential legal reason to store the last printed date in the 
file, if its a copyrighted work, but I can't see printer data as anything 
but a lockin attempt for the printer makers. IMO its up to the pdf 
interpretor to make the pdf its handed fit the printer. Period, IMO it is 
not open for discussion.

There is no reason other than avarice to modify the file. The file 
systems last access date/time maybe, which should not impinge on the file 
itself. Thats file system data.

I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

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#247060

On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 08:17:14 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On Friday, 8 April 2022 07:32:00 EDT Curt wrote:
> > On 2022-04-08, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> > >> Apple: Pages documents include a "last printed" property which gets
> > >> updated when the doc is printed - which suggests there's no option
> > >> in that case.
> > >> 
> > >> Not sure of the accuracy of either report...
> > > 
> > > … nor of my memory.
> > > 
> > > I was never a wysiwy(d)g person, but I do remember when many people
> > > started using Macs back in the '80s. When they selected a printer,
> > > typically adjustments were made to the document to suit the settings
> > > in the printer, and then they'd save the document, which AIUI
> > > retained
> > > those settings. To them, that seemed a normal part of the document
> > > metaphor.
> > 
> > That's exactly the reason, it seems.
> > 
> >  Why does my document get marked as modified when I print it?
> > 
> >  This is because certain information regarding the printer is saved in
> >  the document data.
> > 
> > https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/Printing/Why_
> > does_my_document_get_marked_as_modified_when_I_print_it
>  
> I can see a potential legal reason to store the last printed date in the 
> file, if its a copyrighted work, but I can't see printer data as anything 
> but a lockin attempt for the printer makers. IMO its up to the pdf 
> interpretor to make the pdf its handed fit the printer. Period, IMO it is 
> not open for discussion.
> 
> There is no reason other than avarice to modify the file. The file 
> systems last access date/time maybe, which should not impinge on the file 
> itself. Thats file system data.

Bear in mind that the aforementioned Mac users would not have been
handling PostScript¹ files themselves, but what we would call .DOC
files, and these are what retained the printer settings. (I don't
think they would talk of file extensions either.)

Having no experience myself, I can't answer whether dragging and
dropping a document icon onto a printer icon would behave differently
from opening the document (merely to confirm it's the right one) and
selecting Print from a menu. But I can imagine a situation where in
the latter case, it might read printer parameters and set them in the
opened document without regard for whether they were indentical with
those already present.

> I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers.

I can't speak to any legal value of a "last printed date". I don't
even know whether that date is distinct entity in LO, differing from
the file's Modification Timestamp. (I only use LO to read .DOCs, and
convert them to PDFs if I want to be able to reread them.)

¹ I don't remember when I moved from a PS to a PDF workflow: I archive
source files, not their derivatives, because their value lies in the
content, not its presentation. But it long-predated my use of personal
inkjet printers (ie grippers), and also my having to print A4 PDFs on
US paper. I wouldn't know which tool to use to shrink a PS page.

Cheers,
David.

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#247139

On Friday, April 08, 2022 08:17:14 AM gene heskett wrote:
> I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers.

Billy (Shakespeare) said it before Ben.  But I would not be surprised to find 
that someone said it much earlier than that.

I once looked into the origin of ~"I wrote you a long letter because I didn't 
have time to write a short letter" -- I found sources that attributed it to 
Cicero, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was talked about around the 
cavemen's (and women's) campfires.

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#247159

On 2022-04-10, rhkramer@gmail.com <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 08, 2022 08:17:14 AM gene heskett wrote:
>> I think Ben Franklin said it first, First, we get rid of all the lawyers.
>
> Billy (Shakespeare) said it before Ben.  But I would not be surprised to find 
> that someone said it much earlier than that.
>
> I once looked into the origin of ~"I wrote you a long letter because I didn't 
> have time to write a short letter" -- I found sources that attributed it to 
> Cicero, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was talked about around the 
> cavemen's (and women's) campfires.
>
>


 Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la
 faire plus courte.

Les provinciales (1656), XVI de Blaise Pascal

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettres_provinciales

 "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time." (Letter XVI)

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#247188

On Sunday, April 10, 2022 11:20:39 AM Curt wrote:
> Les provinciales (1656), XVI de Blaise Pascal
> 
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettres_provinciales
> 
>  "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."
> (Letter XVI)

Cicero died around 43 B.C.  (Beheaded, iirc.)

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#247194

On 2022-04-11, rhkramer@gmail.com <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2022 11:20:39 AM Curt wrote:
>> Les provinciales (1656), XVI de Blaise Pascal
>> 
>>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettres_provinciales
>> 
>>  "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."
>> (Letter XVI)
>
> Cicero died around 43 B.C.  (Beheaded, iirc.)
>
>

I'm sorry to hear that, but he's probably gotten over it by now.

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#247200

On 9/04/22 00:17, gene heskett wrote:
> IMO its up to the pdf
> interpretor to make the pdf its handed fit the printer. Period, IMO it is
> not open for discussion.

"Make it fit" might include scaling. You don't necessarily want that 
happening automatically - what if you're printing something like a 
circuit board design (not likely from LO, I admit), to be transferred 
directly onto the pcb?

Cheers,
Richard

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#247047

On 4/7/22, Gareth Evans <donotspam@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Thu  7 Apr 2022, at 09:58, Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land>
> wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 02, 2022 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
>>>Tools menu/Options - General; 'Printing sets "document modified" status'
>>
>
>> Does anyone have any insight into why this is an option? More
>> specifically, what reason would anyone want to have their document
>> marked as modified because they printed it?
>
> I wondered about that too and looked into it.  I now can't find the
> references I found, either in my browser history or by re-searching, but
> iirc, Apple[-related] and LibreOffice forum posts suggested it's to do
> with:
>
> LO:  MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be
> automatically updated prior to printing


Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that.
That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having
something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It
will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do
I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar
advisement).

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

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#247048

On 2022-04-08, Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> LO:  MS Word does it, so LO does it / because fields in the document may be
>> automatically updated prior to printing
>
> Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that.
> That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having
> something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It
> will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do
> I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar
> advisement).
>
> Cindy :)

This mystery has been resolved, yet remains a mystery.

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#247052

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 12:19:10PM -0400, Cindy Sue Causey wrote:

[...]

> Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that.
> That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having
> something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It
> will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do
> I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar
> advisement).

I think this is the other way around: it's your system changing the
file behind your editor's back (syslog keeps growing all the time,
after all). The original poster's case was your editor changing the
file behind your back (which I'd consider more unsettling, mind you).

> Cindy :)

Cheers
-- 
t

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#247072

On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 12:19:10 -0400
Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just poking my nose in to say that syslog might be an example of that.
> That's speaking from the annoying firsthand experience of having
> something like /var/log/syslog loaded in the Mousepad text editor. It
> will keep announcing that the content changed behind the scenes so do
> I want to refresh to view that newest addition (or some similar
> advisement).

Well, try using emacs for watching syslog. It will simply load it and
be silent about external changes until you try to save edits. Or you can
invoke auto-revert-mode, and it will load changes for you, and follow
the bottom of the file if you like. Or use "tail -f".

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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