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CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones

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  CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-08 18:20 +0200
    Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 19:00 +0200
      Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 19:10 +0200
        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-08 19:30 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2022-04-08 20:30 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 21:30 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-08 22:10 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2022-04-08 23:10 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-08 21:40 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 21:40 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Fred <fred@blakemfg.com> - 2022-04-08 21:40 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 17:40 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 14:50 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 15:30 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 16:00 +0200
                Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-10 16:10 +0200
                  Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 16:40 +0200
                Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 23:00 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 15:50 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 19:50 +0200
                Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 20:40 +0200
                  Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 21:30 +0200
                    Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 21:50 +0200
                  Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 21:30 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-11 16:50 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-11 18:00 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-11 18:50 +0200
                Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-11 19:10 +0200
                  Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-11 19:50 +0200
                    Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-11 20:00 +0200
                      Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-11 20:30 +0200
                        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones "Gareth Evans" <donotspam@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-11 21:10 +0200
      Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 21:20 +0200
        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 22:10 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 01:10 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-09 01:40 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 09:20 +0200
    Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 21:10 +0200
      Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-08 21:30 +0200
        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 21:40 +0200
        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 22:00 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-08 22:30 +0200
            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 00:50 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-09 01:50 +0200
                Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 14:00 +0200
                  Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-09 15:40 +0200
                  Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-10 02:30 +0200
                    Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2022-04-10 07:00 +0200
                    Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 08:40 +0200
                      Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 11:50 +0200
                        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 12:10 +0200
                          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 13:10 +0200
                            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-10 13:20 +0200
                              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 14:00 +0200
                              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-10 14:20 +0200
                              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 14:20 +0200
                                Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 15:40 +0200
                            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 14:00 +0200
                          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 13:50 +0200
                            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-10 14:10 +0200
                              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 14:50 +0200
                        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 15:00 +0200
                          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-04-10 15:40 +0200
                            Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 16:50 +0200
                    Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 14:40 +0200
                      Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-10 15:00 +0200
                        Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-10 20:30 +0200
                          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-04-10 21:10 +0200
              Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 03:00 +0200
                Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 14:10 +0200
          Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-08 22:30 +0200
          On IP addresses and bus tripe [was: CUPS - how to match autodetected  printers to physical ones] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-09 08:40 +0200
            Re: On IP addresses and bus tripe [was: CUPS - how to match  autodetected printers to physical ones] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-09 13:50 +0200
              Re: On IP addresses and bus tripe [was: CUPS - how to match  autodetected printers to physical ones] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-09 14:10 +0200
      Re: CUPS - how to match autodetected printers to physical ones David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-08 21:30 +0200

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#247163

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On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 06:47:36PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 10 Apr 2022 at 15:40:28 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 01:40:29PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > Many printers provide an snmp (Simple Network Management Protocol)
> > > service on port 9100. Check with
> > > 
> > >   nmap 10.76.172.100
> > 
> > I know a corporate network or two which would get you disconnected
> > if you do that :)
> > 
> > Then you've got to go to the firewall admin and beg for being reconnected.
> > So if you try it, first make sure you are on speaking terms with the
> > network/firewall admins (a good idea, regardless...)
> 
> Strange world we live in! One looks at a shop window and the heavy mob
> appear to harass you. Survellance capitalism in action? Or the sysadmin
> is so unsure of the network security in place that it requires drastic
> and immediate action to prevent a peep at services being offered? :)

No. The sysadmin has seen folks running around with Kali Linux USB
sticks and has decided to play safe rather than sorry. Folks are not
forbidden of trying to do network scans, but the sysadmin wants to
know. I can't blame him (I'm on speaking terms with him ;-)

> I was once reprimamaned by Amazon for nmapping my own network. That's
> what I call real devotion to stamping out network discovery.

Now now. No reprimands. The firewall notices and disables that one port,
That's all.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#247166

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On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 08:19:52PM +0100, Brian wrote:

[...]

> > forbidden of trying to do network scans, but the sysadmin wants to
> > know. I can't blame him (I'm on speaking terms with him ;-)
> 
> Not forbidden?
> 
>   I know a corporate network or two which would get you disconnected
>   if you do that :
> 
> Disconnected? That doesn't sound permissive.

In my book, forbidden would mean *you* get disconnected from the
institution. Your machine disconnected from the network and having
to do "pretty please" to the admin... I'd say "fair enough". Wouldn't
be *my* policy, but I can live with that.

> > > I was once reprimamaned by Amazon for nmapping my own network. That's
> > > what I call real devotion to stamping out network discovery.
> > 
> > Now now. No reprimands. The firewall notices and disables that one port,
> > That's all.
> 
> I was controlled by an inaminte agency? Is that any better than being
> controlled by an agent of survellance capitalism? Either way, my actions
> are monitored. My communications are intercepted and censorship applied.

Could be worse, believe me. At a lower protocol level [1] it's even part
of the protocol, i.e. mandatory :)

Cheers
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet#Jabber
-- 
t

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#247168

On Sun 10 Apr 2022 at 21:29:30 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 08:19:52PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > forbidden of trying to do network scans, but the sysadmin wants to
> > > know. I can't blame him (I'm on speaking terms with him ;-)
> > 
> > Not forbidden?
> > 
> >   I know a corporate network or two which would get you disconnected
> >   if you do that :
> > 
> > Disconnected? That doesn't sound permissive.
> 
> In my book, forbidden would mean *you* get disconnected from the
> institution. Your machine disconnected from the network and having
> to do "pretty please" to the admin... I'd say "fair enough". Wouldn't
> be *my* policy, but I can live with that.

I wouldn't say "fair enough", but the dictatorial and irrational
decisions of sysadmins might oblige me to live with that. Just
as I live with the agents of survellance capitalism.
 
> > > > I was once reprimamaned by Amazon for nmapping my own network. That's
> > > > what I call real devotion to stamping out network discovery.
> > > 
> > > Now now. No reprimands. The firewall notices and disables that one port,
> > > That's all.
> > 
> > I was controlled by an inaminte agency? Is that any better than being
> > controlled by an agent of survellance capitalism? Either way, my actions
> > are monitored. My communications are intercepted and censorship applied.
> 
> Could be worse, believe me. At a lower protocol level [1] it's even part
> of the protocol, i.e. mandatory :)

OK, I know when I am beaten into the ground. :)

-- 
Brian.

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#247167

On Sun 10 Apr 2022 at 20:39:15 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 06:47:36PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Sun 10 Apr 2022 at 15:40:28 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 01:40:29PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > 
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > > Many printers provide an snmp (Simple Network Management Protocol)
> > > > service on port 9100. Check with
> > > > 
> > > >   nmap 10.76.172.100
> > > 
> > > I know a corporate network or two which would get you disconnected
> > > if you do that :)
> > > 
> > > Then you've got to go to the firewall admin and beg for being reconnected.
> > > So if you try it, first make sure you are on speaking terms with the
> > > network/firewall admins (a good idea, regardless...)
> > 
> > Strange world we live in! One looks at a shop window and the heavy mob
> > appear to harass you. Survellance capitalism in action? Or the sysadmin
> > is so unsure of the network security in place that it requires drastic
> > and immediate action to prevent a peep at services being offered? :)
> 
> No. The sysadmin has seen folks running around with Kali Linux USB
> sticks and has decided to play safe rather than sorry. Folks are not

"safe rather than sorry"? We see the result of that strategy in Europe
today. The sysadmin has overreacted, presumably because he has little
faith in the security of the network he has devised. How would he react
if he saw folks running around with with Windows USB sticks? :)

> forbidden of trying to do network scans, but the sysadmin wants to
> know. I can't blame him (I'm on speaking terms with him ;-)

Not forbidden?

  I know a corporate network or two which would get you disconnected
  if you do that :

Disconnected? That doesn't sound permissive.

> > I was once reprimamaned by Amazon for nmapping my own network. That's
> > what I call real devotion to stamping out network discovery.
> 
> Now now. No reprimands. The firewall notices and disables that one port,
> That's all.

I was controlled by an inaminte agency? Is that any better than being
controlled by an agent of survellance capitalism? Either way, my actions
are monitored. My communications are intercepted and censorship applied.

-- 
Brian.

-- 
Brian.

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#247189

On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 13:22:26 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 06:03:47PM +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 17:59 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 12:10 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > Unfortunately, I was not able to find ANY way to determine the IP
> > > > addresses of the autodetected printers that were presented to me.
> > > 
> > > If I go to http://localhost:631/printers/
> > 
> > I should say I got to that URL from the CUPs interface at
> > http://localhost:631/ then clicking the 'Admininitation' tab at the top
> > followed by the 'Manage Printers' button on the page that showed.
> 
> Here is what I have on that page:
> 
> =====================================================================
> Showing 7 of 7 printers.
> 
> Queue Name	Description	Location	Make and Model	Status
> Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_			CNLBP712C CNLBP712C, driverless, cups-filters 1.28.7	Idle
> Canon_LBP712Cdn_db_c0_d3_	Canon_LBP712Cdn_db_c0_d3_		CNLBP712C CNLBP712C, driverless, cups-filters 1.28.7	Idle
> Cups_PDF_oc3261540276	Cups_PDF_oc3261540276		Local Raw Printer	Paused
> HP_LaserJet_4100_Series_0001E6A68D3D_	HP_LaserJet_4100_Series_0001E6A68D3D_		HP LaserJet 4100 Series , driverless, cups-filters 1.28.7	Idle
> hp_LaserJet_4250_621E13_	hp_LaserJet_4250_621E13_		hp LaserJet 4250, driverless, cups-filters 1.28.7	Idle
> HP_LaserJet_P3010_Series_0FCDD7_	HP_LaserJet_P3010_Series_0FCDD7_		HP LaserJet P3010 Series, driverless, cups-filters 1.28.7	Idle
> PostScript_oc3261540276	PostScript_oc3261540276		Local Raw Printer	Paused
> =====================================================================
> 
> Of course it looks like crap when I just paste the text from the web
> page into an email.  But if you ignore the horrible formatting, you
> can see there are NO IP addresses here.

Looks are the least of the deficiencies here. The Queue Name appears
to be being used for the printer Descriptiom and the Location column
is empty. Neither column provides adequate, useful information.
> 
> If I go to a single printer's page, I get text like this:
> 
> =====================================================================
> Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_
> Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_ (Idle, Accepting Jobs, Not Shared, Server Default)
> 
> Maintenance
>  
> Administration
> Description:	
> Location:	
> Driver:	CNLBP712C CNLBP712C, driverless, cups-filters 1.28.7 (color, 2-sided printing)
> Connection:	implicitclass://Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_/
> Defaults:	job-sheets=none, none media=na_letter_8.5x11in sides=one-sided
> =====================================================================
> 
> Maybe I need to amend the question to "How is one supposed to figure out
> which autodetected printer is which IN A CORPORATE NETWORK OF UNKNOWN
> PROVENANCE?"  I don't know what I need to say to convey to you that
> my workplace's network DOES NOT work like what you see on yours.
> 
> Looking at the stuff that I pasted here, how am I supposed to know whether
> this corresponds to the physical printer with IP address 10.76.172.100?

A third way forward:

"implicitclass://Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_/" is the URI for this printer.
Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_ is the printer's Service Name. 

  avahi-resolve -n Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_.local

should give the IP address of the host.

-- 
Brian.

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#247190

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 03:40:12PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> A third way forward:
> 
> "implicitclass://Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_/" is the URI for this printer.
> Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_ is the printer's Service Name. 
> 
>   avahi-resolve -n Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_.local
> 
> should give the IP address of the host.

wooledg:~$ time avahi-resolve -n Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_.local
Failed to resolve host name 'Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_.local': Timeout reached
real 5.014  user 0.004  sys 0.004

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#247192

On Mon 11 Apr 2022 at 11:53:38 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 03:40:12PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > A third way forward:
> > 
> > "implicitclass://Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_/" is the URI for this printer.
> > Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_ is the printer's Service Name. 
> > 
> >   avahi-resolve -n Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_.local
> > 
> > should give the IP address of the host.
> 
> wooledg:~$ time avahi-resolve -n Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_.local
> Failed to resolve host name 'Canon_LBP351dn_f9_7a_4a_.local': Timeout reached
> real 5.014  user 0.004  sys 0.004

What does

   avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp | grep -B3 port

give for this device?

-- 
Brian. 

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#247193

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 05:47:07PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> What does
> 
>    avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp | grep -B3 port
> 
> give for this device?

=   eno1 IPv4 Canon LBP351dn (f9:7a:4a)                     Internet Printer     local
   hostname = [dhcp-10-76-172-100.local]
   address = [10.76.172.100]
   port = [631]

And for completeness:

wooledg:~$ avahi-resolve -n dhcp-10-76-172-100.local
dhcp-10-76-172-100.local	10.76.172.100

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#247195

On Mon 11 Apr 2022 at 13:04:12 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 05:47:07PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > What does
> > 
> >    avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp | grep -B3 port
> > 
> > give for this device?
> 
> =   eno1 IPv4 Canon LBP351dn (f9:7a:4a)                     Internet Printer     local
>    hostname = [dhcp-10-76-172-100.local]
>    address = [10.76.172.100]
>    port = [631]
> 
> And for completeness:
> 
> wooledg:~$ avahi-resolve -n dhcp-10-76-172-100.local
> dhcp-10-76-172-100.local	10.76.172.100

Thanks. I completly forgot: CUPS constructs a destination from a
printer's Service (Bonjour) Name by replacing a dash (-) with an
underscore (_). It then adds an underscore (_) to the end. (It
has stopped doing the latter in the most recent version, I thnk).

I will scub the third method. It is too involved to explain how
to reverse what is in the implicitclass URI just for resolving.
avahi-browse seems the way to go for your purpose.

BTW. I am interested in how using /usr/lib/cups/backend/snmp went.
Its drawback is that not all printers provide an snmp service.

-- 
Brian.

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#247196

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 06:47:59PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> BTW. I am interested in how using /usr/lib/cups/backend/snmp went.
> Its drawback is that not all printers provide an snmp service.

wooledg:~$ /usr/lib/cups/backend/snmp
network socket://10.76.172.120 "HP LaserJet 4250" "hp LaserJet 4250" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,MLC,PCLXL,PCL,PJL,POSTSCRIPT;1284.4DL:4d,4e,1;MDL:hp LaserJet 4250;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4250;" "W01-0224"
network socket://10.76.172.88 "HP LaserJet 4100 Series" "HP LaserJet 4100 Series" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,MLC,PCL,POSTSCRIPT,PCLXL,PJL;MDL:HP LaserJet 4100 Series ;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4100 Series;" ""
network socket://10.76.173.60:9100 "HP LaserJet P3010 Series" "HP LaserJet P3010 Series" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,BIDI-ECP,PJL,POSTSCRIPT,PDF,PCLXL,PCL;MDL:HP LaserJet P3010 Series;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet P3010 Series;" ""

Looks like that doesn't contain anything for the Canon printers.

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#247197

On Mon 11 Apr 2022 at 13:55:03 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 06:47:59PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > BTW. I am interested in how using /usr/lib/cups/backend/snmp went.
> > Its drawback is that not all printers provide an snmp service.
> 
> wooledg:~$ /usr/lib/cups/backend/snmp
> network socket://10.76.172.120 "HP LaserJet 4250" "hp LaserJet 4250" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,MLC,PCLXL,PCL,PJL,POSTSCRIPT;1284.4DL:4d,4e,1;MDL:hp LaserJet 4250;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4250;" "W01-0224"
> network socket://10.76.172.88 "HP LaserJet 4100 Series" "HP LaserJet 4100 Series" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,MLC,PCL,POSTSCRIPT,PCLXL,PJL;MDL:HP LaserJet 4100 Series ;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4100 Series;" ""
> network socket://10.76.173.60:9100 "HP LaserJet P3010 Series" "HP LaserJet P3010 Series" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,BIDI-ECP,PJL,POSTSCRIPT,PDF,PCLXL,PCL;MDL:HP LaserJet P3010 Series;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet P3010 Series;" ""
> 
> Looks like that doesn't contain anything for the Canon printers.

Although used by other vendors, a socket://... URI is really an HP
thing, used by JetDirect appliances, so not surprising. Anyway, this
very useful info of yours would prompt me to discard advising the use
of snmp to match IP address with printer model. We are back to
avahi-browse.

I appreciate you print to that printer infrequently but would suggest a
manually set up queue may suit you.

Execute

  driverless

to get its URI. (I am sure you can sort out which one it is).

Then

  lpadmin -p SENSIBLE_PRINTER_NAME -L MYOFFICE -v URI -E -m everywhere

-- 
Brian.

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#247198

On Mon 11 Apr 2022, at 19:23, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon 11 Apr 2022 at 13:55:03 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 06:47:59PM +0100, Brian wrote:
>> > BTW. I am interested in how using /usr/lib/cups/backend/snmp went.
>> > Its drawback is that not all printers provide an snmp service.
>> 
>> wooledg:~$ /usr/lib/cups/backend/snmp
>> network socket://10.76.172.120 "HP LaserJet 4250" "hp LaserJet 4250" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,MLC,PCLXL,PCL,PJL,POSTSCRIPT;1284.4DL:4d,4e,1;MDL:hp LaserJet 4250;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4250;" "W01-0224"
>> network socket://10.76.172.88 "HP LaserJet 4100 Series" "HP LaserJet 4100 Series" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,MLC,PCL,POSTSCRIPT,PCLXL,PJL;MDL:HP LaserJet 4100 Series ;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 4100 Series;" ""
>> network socket://10.76.173.60:9100 "HP LaserJet P3010 Series" "HP LaserJet P3010 Series" "MFG:Hewlett-Packard;CMD:PJL,BIDI-ECP,PJL,POSTSCRIPT,PDF,PCLXL,PCL;MDL:HP LaserJet P3010 Series;CLS:PRINTER;DES:Hewlett-Packard LaserJet P3010 Series;" ""
>> 
>> Looks like that doesn't contain anything for the Canon printers.
>
> Although used by other vendors, a socket://... URI is really an HP
> thing, used by JetDirect appliances, so not surprising. Anyway, this
> very useful info of yours would prompt me to discard advising the use
> of snmp to match IP address with printer model. We are back to
> avahi-browse.
>
> I appreciate you print to that printer infrequently but would suggest a
> manually set up queue may suit you.
>
> Execute
>
>   driverless
>
> to get its URI. (I am sure you can sort out which one it is).
>
> Then
>
>   lpadmin -p SENSIBLE_PRINTER_NAME -L MYOFFICE -v URI -E -m everywhere
>
> -- 
> Brian.


I've been searching for documentation on CUPS "implicitclass" but can't find much.

I did find this:

'CUPS can automatically merge multiple identical network printers into "implicit classes". This allows clients to send jobs to the implicit class and have them print on the first available printer or server.' [though the doc predates CUPS driverless printing by some margin]
https://www.cups.org/test/testfile.pdf (p4)

The above is similar (though possibly quite different) to
https://opensource.apple.com/source/cups/cups-87/doc/sam.shtml#PRINTER_CLASSES
(2nd para under 'The Basics')

Assuming implicitclass is the mechanism of first resort in auto-detection (my own setup suggests so), does anyone know if this means that, with multiple devices of the same type, there's no guarantee from which device printing from the same queue will emerge, or are implicit classes resulting from auto-detection implemented as implicit classes of one?

Thanks,
Gareth

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#247055

On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 17:59:10 +0100, Tixy wrote:

> On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 12:10 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > Unfortunately, I was not able to find ANY way to determine the IP
> > addresses of the autodetected printers that were presented to me.
> 
> If I go to http://localhost:631/printers/ and click on my printer it
> shows amongst other information:
> 
> Connection:	socket://192.168.2.3:9100

OK. That's the destination.
> 
> In case it got that IP address because I configured it that way, I just
> tried it on another computer that didn't previously have CUPS on until
> I just installed it and it shows the same for an auto discovered
> printer.

Do you find that surprising? The destination hasn't changed because you
use another computer. You would be miffed if it did.
> 
> -- 
> Tixy
> 

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#247068

On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 20:18 +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 17:59:10 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 12:10 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > Unfortunately, I was not able to find ANY way to determine the IP
> > > addresses of the autodetected printers that were presented to me.
> > 
> > If I go to http://localhost:631/printers/ and click on my printer it
> > shows amongst other information:
> > 
> > Connection:	socket://192.168.2.3:9100
> 
> OK. That's the destination.
> > 
> > In case it got that IP address because I configured it that way, I just
> > tried it on another computer that didn't previously have CUPS on until
> > I just installed it and it shows the same for an auto discovered
> > printer.
> 
> Do you find that surprising? The destination hasn't changed because you
> use another computer. You would be miffed if it did.
> 

I wasn't expecting a different IP address but, given Greg's experience,
it might have shown no address at all if it was auto discovered as
opposed to being configured by specifying an address. (Which is what I
thought I had done.) 

-- 
Tixy

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#247074

On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 21:07:18 +0100, Tixy wrote:

> On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 20:18 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 17:59:10 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 12:10 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > Unfortunately, I was not able to find ANY way to determine the IP
> > > > addresses of the autodetected printers that were presented to me.
> > > 
> > > If I go to http://localhost:631/printers/ and click on my printer it
> > > shows amongst other information:
> > > 
> > > Connection:	socket://192.168.2.3:9100
> > 
> > OK. That's the destination.
> > > 
> > > In case it got that IP address because I configured it that way, I just
> > > tried it on another computer that didn't previously have CUPS on until
> > > I just installed it and it shows the same for an auto discovered
> > > printer.
> > 
> > Do you find that surprising? The destination hasn't changed because you
> > use another computer. You would be miffed if it did.
> > 
> 
> I wasn't expecting a different IP address but, given Greg's experience,

I think we have a differnet understanding of what The OP's experience
was.

> it might have shown no address at all if it was auto discovered as
> opposed to being configured by specifying an address. (Which is what I
> thought I had done.) 

Printer discovery results in no address (URI) being known? Just because
it wasn't manually configured? Where would the print job go? Discovery
would be useless.

-- 
Brian,

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#247075

On Sat, Apr 09, 2022 at 12:05:01AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 21:07:18 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > I wasn't expecting a different IP address but, given Greg's experience,
> 
> I think we have a differnet understanding of what The OP's experience
> was.

I knew the printer's IP address before I even touched CUPS.  It was
prominently displayed on the device itself.  It was the one thing I
didn't have to guess at during the entire adventure.(*)

In all of my experience working with printers BEFORE the CUPS/Avahi
thing came along, knowing the IP address of the network printer was
the first, fundamental step.  When you set up the printer device in
Unix, using lprng or whatever it was at the time, that was where you
started.  Here's the IP address, now add it to DNS so it has a name,
and then add a printer device that uses that hostname.

In CUPS/Avahi, apparently you aren't supposed to do things in that way,
because it would be too obvious.

Fortunately, there are low-level commands that allow you to bypass
the "right way of doing things" and get at the information you need to
actually make the thing *work*.  (Or if you don't know those commands
yet, there's still trial and error.)

(*) Remember, I had an entry in DNS pointing to that IP address already.
The IP address *predated the printer device*.  It was surely associated
with the previous printer that was in that spot.  Whoever installed this
printer was probably told to report its MAC address to the DHCP admin
so they could assign the old printer's IP address to the new printer.

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#247082

On Sat, 2022-04-09 at 00:05 +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 21:07:18 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 20:18 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 17:59:10 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 12:10 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > > Unfortunately, I was not able to find ANY way to determine the IP
> > > > > addresses of the autodetected printers that were presented to me.
> > > > 
> > > > If I go to http://localhost:631/printers/ and click on my printer it
> > > > shows amongst other information:
> > > > 
> > > > Connection:	socket://192.168.2.3:9100
> > > 
> > > OK. That's the destination.
> > > > 
> > > > In case it got that IP address because I configured it that way, I just
> > > > tried it on another computer that didn't previously have CUPS on until
> > > > I just installed it and it shows the same for an auto discovered
> > > > printer.
> > > 
> > > Do you find that surprising? The destination hasn't changed because you
> > > use another computer. You would be miffed if it did.
> > > 
> > 
> > I wasn't expecting a different IP address but, given Greg's experience,
> 
> I think we have a differnet understanding of what The OP's experience
> was.

Possibly, I thought his experience was that he couldn't see the IP
address for printers in GUI or command-line interfaces.

-- 
Tixy

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#247054

On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 12:10:37 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

[Misconceptions snipped. It would take too long to comment on and refute
every single one of them, interesting though they may be.]

> After all this, I have two final comments:
> 
> 1) To whomever received two surprise printer test pages: sorry.
> 2) I FUCKING HATE PRINTERS!

You are pointing the finger in the wrong direction. (As recent political
events show, this is seen as a good technique to draw attention from the
actual state of affairs).
> 
> And I have one question:
> 
> How is one *supposed* to figure out which autodetected printer is the
> correct one, apart from trial and error?

Fancy an analogy?

My local bus intercange has display screens showing bus nummbers and
destinations (IP addresses). It does not display the stands the buses
start from. Whose responsibillity is that down to?

You got it!

Now contact you highly paid sys admins to ask them to add a "Location"
field to whatever the server/printer is advertising.

-- 
Brian.
> 

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#247057

On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 08:08:22PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 12:10:37 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > How is one *supposed* to figure out which autodetected printer is the
> > correct one, apart from trial and error?

> Now contact you highly paid sys admins to ask them to add a "Location"
> field to whatever the server/printer is advertising.

So... if your corporate network is not set up in the way that Brian
expects, there is simply nothing you can do about it.  You're just
screwed, and must resort to trial and error to figure out where
the printers are.  Even though CUPS can magically contact the printers,
it will refuse to tell you how it does that, because of some kind of
policy decision.

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#247064

On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 15:22:58 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 08:08:22PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 08 Apr 2022 at 12:10:37 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > How is one *supposed* to figure out which autodetected printer is the
> > > correct one, apart from trial and error?
> 
> > Now contact you highly paid sys admins to ask them to add a "Location"
> > field to whatever the server/printer is advertising.
> 
> So... if your corporate network is not set up in the way that Brian
> expects, there is simply nothing you can do about it.  You're just
> screwed, and must resort to trial and error to figure out where
> the printers are.  Even though CUPS can magically contact the printers,
> it will refuse to tell you how it does that, because of some kind of
> policy decision.

It's an odd policy decision to pay someone to write IP addresses on
printers rather than the name(s) of the queue(s) that they serve.
It does look as if all the information that is published for/on these
printers is for the benefit of the support staff and not the users.

Cheers,
David.

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